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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I'm probably paranoid. But something has kind of been bothering me about our actions here.

"How can we exploit the civilians caught in the crossfire?" Is pretty emblematic.

Is what the devils are going to try and do. Except they are going to do it better. Because that's what they do.

They posses none of the scruples that prevent Viserys and Co from just using them as meat shields or sacrifice fodder. Because using weaklings as meat shields is what devils do.

It's hard to think of a more iconic move for devilkind actually. Than throwing someone helpless in front of a bullet meant for you.

It feels like we are trying to beat devils at their own game. Is what I am saying.

Except they've been playing the same game for the past ten thousand years, and are willing to cheat harder, and cheat better.
 
egoo said:
..we have the PR now.
Long as we present the events in the right light later on (see high-level illusions to set up the action, see Serpentwtone Projectors/recorders for actual showing), we can care little for civilian losses in cases like this one.

Just gotta spin the events in "we attempted to save people, but devils interfered", or something.

You know, the usual TV-propaganda half-truths.
Only, ours will be working in a void where no other propaganda like that ever existed.
It will be seen as holy scripture in truthfulness if we do things right.
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That's fine for our Imperium, but we are having near-perfect popularity there anyway, so that doesn't matter.

Right here in Slaver's Bay the Devils are having the better spread of propaganda and they will use it.
And you might think that it won't matter much if the cities here fall to Hell a bit faster, but that also means maybe that the Devils can take over openly a month early.
And if they want to keep what they take (they usually do) that means magical fortifications being build fit for the Bloodwar.
You know, protective rituals, siege weapons, stuff like that.

I really doubt we can just come over and burn things down after the devils stopped being subtle.
 
What if we used a combination of Lost Passage and Teleport Trap spells, cast simultaneously, layered to affect as much of the pyramid as possible?

Then we cast a Maximized Cleansing Conflagration spell at the top of the pyradmid, which is also the focal point for the Teleport Trap.

And for an extra flourish, we have Teana's Shadow Traces each deliver an item with a Celestial Brilliance spell affecting it at each entrance of the pyramid while Mereth launches a similarly affected arrow to stack the effect on top of the pyramid alongside the Cleaning Conflagration. It'll be like an immense glaring beacon at one of the highest structures in the city.

This will definitely catch the Devils' attention. Any Devil within the pyramid that tries to Teleport out, or which attempts to Teleport to the pyramid from elsewhere in the city, will arrive within the Cleansing Conflagration and Celestial Brilliance zone at the top of the pyramid.
 
Hmmm.

Makes me wish there was a fire alarm we could pull.

Stage some kind of accident that requires them to close the building to the public?

Devils are naturally pretty paranoid, but subtle hasnt been our modus operandi lately.

Edit:
@Goldfish I do appreciate ancient architecture. And loot.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
That's fine for our Imperium, but we are having near-perfect popularity there anyway, so that doesn't matter.

Right here in Slaver's Bay the Devils are having the better spread of propaganda and they will use it.
And you might think that it won't matter much if the cities here fall to Hell a bit faster, but that also means maybe that the Devils can take over openly a month early.
And if they want to keep what they take (they usually do) that means magical fortifications being build fit for the Bloodwar.
You know, protective rituals, siege weapons, stuff like that.

I really doubt we can just come over and burn things down after the devils stopped being subtle.
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My argument is mostly a defense of the theoretical "all three cities are burnt down, hundreds of thousands die locally, but devil presence is mostly eradicated".

We don't want them getting a staging ground.
They can't get a staging ground if theres nothing of value to stage at.

If that comes to pass, I believe we still can massively PR-push our way through with the serpentstone-tech and not lose much PR/empire cohesion even in the worst case.
Best case our 100+ Diplo speech alighting lotsa hearts against Slavers/Devils (now equated in listener's minds) in all the rest Slaver-controlled territories.

We can work with "everything is burned to the ground, people included", is all I'm saying.

The scenario where we don't finish the Devils openly, well, it is a rather shitty one, yes.
 
egoo said:
all three cities are burnt down, hundreds of thousands die locally, but devil presence is mostly eradicated
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Ironically this is so in line with hell's beliefs and practices (as well as causing massive amounts of death) that it could easily be used to create the perfect staging ground.
 
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Goldfish said:
What if we used a combination of Lost Passage and Teleport Trap spells, cast simultaneously, layered to affect as much of the pyramid as possible?

Then we cast a Maximized Cleansing Conflagration spell at the top of the pyradmid, which is also the focal point for the Teleport Trap.

And for an extra flourish, we have Teana's Shadow Traces each deliver an item with a Celestial Brilliance spell affecting it at each entrance of the pyramid while Mereth launches a similarly affected arrow to stack the effect on top of the pyramid alongside the Cleaning Conflagration. It'll be like an immense glaring beacon at one of the highest structures in the city.

This will definitely catch the Devils' attention. Any Devil within the pyramid that tries to Teleport out, or which attempts to Teleport to the pyramid from elsewhere in the city, will arrive within the Cleansing Conflagration and Celestial Brilliance zone at the top of the pyramid.
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Okay but what is the point of this?

Let's lay out the focus of our actions, what are we here to do? Catch devils' attention. What are you trying to get the devils to do by turning the entire pyramid into a trap for them in and of itself?

Is there something inside of the Pyramid we're after? Are we trying to deny something inside the Pyramid to the devils?

After it gets discovered what teleportation does to devils trying to pop into the Pyramid, don't you think they might not try doing that?

I'm really confused about the point of your proposal.

From what I understood, we are trying to go after a hardpoint that is being maintained by the Devils, which they have transformed into a PR trap as much as a physical one, where they kill the nobles inside of the pyramid. The thing is, the pyramid is ALREADY a trap that they can activate at any time. We can just about act to evacuate the nobles because we have Magical Means and Warlock Ways.

@DragonParadox might not have been clear enough on what the devils were doing here, but I think it's pretty obvious what our intentions are, fight the devils without things getting too loud. If we're going fully loud, we're basically chaining ourselves down into committing to a long, drawn out fight down to the knife, because if we pull out without completely eradicating the devils, they are going to drop the masquerade and do what @Artemis1992 proposed and reinforce it to the satisfaction of an Avernite general.
 
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[X] Psst, over here!
-[X] Under cover of Invisibility spells from maximum range, the group will simultaneously do the following:
--[X] Viserys will cast True Casting via PoSK, then use Wild Arcana to cast a Teleport Trap spell (DC 31 Will save negates) with the 22 40-foot cubes arranged to encompass as much of the pyramid as possible, with the destination point of the trap being the top of the pyramid. He will then cast a Maximized Searing Cleansing Conflagration spell (132 damage, DC 29 Fortitude save for half damage, 11 round duration) using Wild Arcana and one of our Maximize Metamagic gems to occupy the same point as the Teleport Trap's destination at the top of the pyramid.
--[X] Teana will use Greater Shadow Enchantment to cast two Lost Passage spells (DC 32 Will save for partial effect) 34 30-foot cubes arranged to encompass as much of the pyramid as possible.
---[X] Each of Teana's Shadow Traces, while under the effects of a Wind Walk spell will drop an item previously affected by a Reach Chained Celestial Brilliance, spell courtesy of Dany, at the pyramid's entrances and one at the top as well. The items will be kept in heavy cloth bags to prevent their light from being visible too early. If there are too many entrances, the three most heavily trafficked will get one, and if there are less than three the leftovers will be placed on the top of the pyramid as well.
 
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[X] Your first priority before actually engaging the devils should be to disarm the threat of the pyramid collapsing. That requires individual structural interactions, possibly magic, possibly mechanisms, which you can actually interfere with and that have to be placed at physical locations. If it's something as pedestrian as weakening the foundations at certain points, you can shore up all of that damage very fast with Titan's Tools. The information you plumbed from the Devils should allow you to know where to start on this.
-[X] Once the risk of a very visible, very obvious disaster which 'unfortunately' claims the lives of many of the influential and powerful, such as the case used to be at any rate, is out of the way, you can focus on tackling the devils in their redoubt, drawing their reinforcements into a pitched fight in a less visible location where you don't have to concern yourselves with collateral as much.
 
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Let's actually get our priorities in order. We want a fight with the devils. They do not want to give us that fight, they are creating deterrents to our even attempting to fight them.

Get rid of the deterrents at their source, and then go pick a fight. That seems pretty straight forward to me.
 
Crake said:
Okay but what is the point of this?

Let's lay out the focus of our actions, what are we here to do? Catch devils' attention. What are you trying to get the devils to do by turning the entire pyramid into a trap for them in and of itself?

Is there something inside of the Pyramid we're after? Are we trying to deny something inside the Pyramid to the devils?

After it gets discovered what teleportation does to devils trying to pop into the Pyramid, don't you think they might not try doing that?

I'm really confused about the point of your proposal.

From what I understood, we are trying to go after a hardpoint that is being maintained by the Devils, which they have transformed into a PR trap as much as a physical one, where they kill the nobles inside of the pyramid. The thing is, the pyramid is ALREADY a trap that they can activate at any time. We can just about act to evacuate the nobles because we have Magical Means and Warlock Ways.

@DragonParadox might not have been clear enough on what the devils were doing here, but I think it's pretty obvious what our intentions are, fight the devils without things getting too loud. If we're going fully loud, we're basically chaining ourselves down into committing to a long, drawn out fight down to the knife, because if we pull out without completely eradicating the devils, they are going to drop the masquerade and do what @Artemis1992 proposed and reinforce it to the satisfaction of an Avernite general.
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Oh, I was going for catching their attention without actually entering the pyramid.

The Teleport Trap has a duration of 22 days when cast by Viserys and Teana's Lost Passage will last 34 hours. Even after the Devils figure out that trying to Teleport into the temple is dangerous, they won't be able to easily enter it except by muggle means, and then if they do, there is the Lost Passage effect to contend with. DC 31 and DC 32 Will saves are going to no-sell most Devils, even higher threat ones. For all they'll be able to tell, we'll be inside the pyramid making a run for whatever they think our objective might be.

Would it help if we had Teana cast a bunch of Shadow Conjuration Summoned Demons to assault the place?
 
Goldfish said:
Oh, I was going for catching their attention without actually entering the pyramid.

The Teleport Trap has a duration of 22 days when cast by Viserys and Teana's Lost Passage will last 34 hours. Even after the Devils figure out that trying to Teleport into the temple is dangerous, they won't be able to easily enter it except by muggle means, and then if they do, there is the Lost Passage effect to contend with. DC 31 and DC 32 Will saves are going to no-sell most Devils, even higher threat ones. For all they'll be able to tell, we'll be inside the pyramid making a run for whatever they think our objective might be.

Would it help if we had Teana cast a bunch of Shadow Conjuration Summoned Demons to assault the place?
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They rigged the temple to collapse? The fact their are a bunch of devils inside of it won't stop them from collapsing it. Which they will then blame on us.
 
Goldfish said:
Oh, I was going for catching their attention without actually entering the pyramid.

The Teleport Trap has a duration of 22 days when cast by Viserys and Teana's Lost Passage will last 34 hours. Even after the Devils figure out that trying to Teleport into the temple is dangerous, they won't be able to easily enter it except by muggle means, and then if they do, there is the Lost Passage effect to contend with. DC 31 and DC 32 Will saves are going to no-sell most Devils, even higher threat ones. For all they'll be able to tell, we'll be inside the pyramid making a run for whatever they think our objective might be.

Would it help if we had Teana cast a bunch of Shadow Conjuration Summoned Demons to assault the place?
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Goldfish, you are putting the forest before the trees. The pyramid, for the most part, is only important insofar as its involvement in an infernal gambit to create a scapegoat for being forced into battle with us.

They already have it ready to collapse.

What you propose accomplishes nothing except acting as a very visible signal that we are done with the game of shadows. They will pull the lever, the pyramid is destroyed, everyone inside dies, and they turn the Immolation Devil loose and let her have her way finally.
 
Crake said:
Goldfish, you are putting the forest before the trees. The pyramid, for the most part, is only important insofar as its involvement in an infernal gambit to create a scapegoat for being forced into battle with us.

They already have it ready to collapse.

What you propose accomplishes nothing except acting as a very visible signal that we are done with the game of shadows. They will pull the lever, the pyramid is destroyed, everyone inside dies, and they turn the Immolation Devil loose and let her have her way finally.
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Okay, good point.

I was really looking forward to watching as Devils Teleported into the Maximized Cleansing Conflagration and were immediately incinerated. :(

EDIT: It would have been the best bug zapper ever, especially if a Gelugon tried to Teleport in.

[X] Crake
 
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Mhm, so, this is as much as I can say about 3rd month's turnvote so far, but no one minds us sending Rhaella (+Seeker, +Vigilant Hunter, +1 Erynie for getaway purposes) to copy lore in Vahar and start on subtly pushing it towards integration into the Empire?
[] The Mysteries of East: With them now open to you, have the libraries of Vahar accessed, and scoured through for lore of illusion, divination, and other low-energy magics. (Progress: 12)
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Alternatively we could send her as one more diplomancer on Plane of Water, to try and convince Marid cities to make more ties with is, but...

Well, I kinda find PoW a more hazardous location, to be honest.
Especially since she'll be working against Squids in Squid-preferred environment.
 
egoo said:
Mhm, so, this is as much as I can say about 3rd month's turnvote so far, but no one minds us sending Rhaella (+Seeker, +Vigilant Hunter, +1 Erynie for getaway purposes) to copy lore in Vahar and start on subtly pushing it towards integration into the Empire?


Alternatively we could send her as one more diplomancer on Plane of Water, to try and convince Marid cities to make more ties with is, but...

Well, I kinda find PoW a more hazardous location, to be honest.
Especially since she'll be working against Squids in Squid-preferred environment.
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Add a Mind Dragon to that, and we'll double-down with a Scholarum action to speed things up, and I'm sold.
 
@Azel It's that time of year again... that's right, Fall!

That means good, German styled beers!

AKA: generally the only time of year I drink beer when not on a social excursion.
 
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