On the matter of Resurrection
On the matter of Resurrection:

The simplest proper resurrection magic is the level 5 Raise Dead spell, which is accessible at cleric level nine, well past the first soft cap of level five and just shy of the second at level ten. It costs 1,000 IM do perform normally. You could buy a prosperous village and everything in it or build a small keep for 1,000 IM. That is the baseline we are working from.

The second thing to keep in mind is that not all souls want to return from death, so in case of trying to apply resurrection on a mass scale you are going to pour some amount of those many, many thousands of Imperial Marks, which could have been put towards building roads, schools, or houses of healing, down the cosmic drain. You also can't divine it ahead of time to try to avoid it, at least reliably, without using Commune, that incidentally is another level 5 spell, one that costs XP each and every time you cast it. Fluff-wise, XP lost like that is literally the caster's soul burning up a little. If we are talking about mass resurrection, it all adds up.

While we are on the subject of who can cast level 5+ spells, PCs of that skill are rare and their magic is valuable in other instances. Dany, Vee, and Lya do pro bono healing in SD, that is one of the draws of the city. This is not as significant as it used to be in the old days when such magic was rare, but if you are really sick beyond what common ritual magic can fix, it is the place to be. What they do not do in these instances is fix death, because they know the demand for resurrection would far outstrip their capacity to do so, even with Chain Spell metamagic and other such tricks. There are quite literally hundreds of thousands of newly dead they might raise. Who goes first?

The idea has been floated that you could raise every legionary who died in this battle. Even though I have not worked out the numbers yet, you guys could probably do it, you have millions of IM in the treasury, but what makes these deaths more worthy of being brought back than the soldiers who died fighting bandits or pacifying rebellious magisters, enforcing laws? Just because you guys did not see those deaths on screen does not mean they did not happen. So if you want to talk moral, sinking vast amounts of money into raising everyone who died in this fight would likely hurt more than it helps.

OK, so what about having a god do it? Gods don't have to deal with pesky spell slot limitations, do they? Well no, but they have other limitations. You guys have a lot of death gods in your pantheon; Yss, the Merling King, and even the Old Gods to a certain degree. They do not really object to resurrections on a minr level, as you guys have been doing. It's a minor disruption of the veil. Having a meaningful portion of the population be 'insured against death', however, would disrupt their domains. It would begin to fray the veil between life and death, and if they were the ones doing it... well that is how you lose the Death Domain and Gain the Undeath Domain. There is also the matter of the Faceless, who worship all the faces of Death. They would, in Viserys' opinion, be less than pleased to live in a realm with mass resurrections.

This needed up a lot more complex than first intended but it should at least deal with a lot of the points raised.

If you guys have more questions feel free to ask.
 
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The divine issues do not apply to potentially mass-Warforging the local Undead, right?

They did after all come back already, without it being our fault, we just put them in nicer vessels.
 
The divine issues do not apply to potentially mass-Warforging the local Undead, right?

They did after all come back already, without it being our fault, we just put them in nicer vessels.

Putting the undead in warforged bodies will if anything endear you to the death gods in question, since they would not be polluting the world with mass amounts of negative energy and continuing to raise more undead by proxy.
 
I honestly think you're overestimating just how entitled our legionnaires are going to feel to resurrections. This is literally turning back the hand of death. Even in an age of miracles that's a Big Deal, and costly too. Yes, you have to be important in some way to merit that kind of investment because the Imperium as wealthy as it is does not have unlimited funding. Yes, it sucks when you and your friends aren't that important. But that doesn't mean legionnaires aren't well taken care of in basically every other aspect.
We could afford Reincarnation though, that's only 200 IM per use, considering we are planning to turn tens of thousands of random undead into Warforged, which cost roughly the same as reincarnating someone, I think we should begin offering reincarnation, as something those who die in the line of duty, can get if they're signed up for it.

Reincarnation can also come with mandatory donation of your old body to the Flesh Forge, which recoup some of the cost of it.
 
Turning the death car around would be a chore.

The children of the forest and outsiders are clinically immortal, but rewriting the deepest fundamental building blocks of an entire universe is a project that makes fixing the outer planes look like switching a lightbulb.

Edit:
That's not the issue @tarrangar.
 
On the matter of Resurrection:

The simplest proper resurrection magic is the level 5 Raise Dead spell, which is accessible at cleric level nine, well past the first soft cap of level five and just shy of the second at level ten. It costs 1,000 IM do perform normally. You could buy a prosperous village and everything in it or build a small keep for 1,000 IM. That is the baseline we are working from.

The second thing to keep in mind is that not all souls want to return from death, so in case of trying to apply resurrection on a mass scale you are going to pour some amount of those many, many thousands of Imperial Marks, which could have been put towards building roads, schools, or houses of healing, down the cosmic drain. You also can't divine it ahead of time to try to avoid it, at least reliably, without using Commune, that incidentally is another level 5 spell, one that costs XP each and every time you cast it. Fluff-wise, XP lost like that is literally the caster's soul burning up a little. If we are talking about mass resurrection, it all adds up.

While we are on the subject of who can cast level 5+ spells, PCs of that skill are rare and their magic is valuable in other instances. Dany, Vee, and Lya do pro bono healing in SD, that is one of the draws of the city. This is not as significant as it used to be in the old days when such magic was rare, but if you are really sick beyond what common ritual magic can fix, it is the place to be. What they do not do in these instances is fix death, because they know the demand for resurrection would far outstrip their capacity to do so, even with Chain Spell metamagic and other such tricks. There are quite literally hundreds of thousands of newly dead they might raise. Who goes first?

The idea has been floated that you could raise every legionary who died in this battle. Even though I have not worked out the numbers yet, you guys could probably do it, you have millions of IM in the treasury, but what makes these deaths more worthy of being brought back than the soldiers who died fighting bandits or pacifying rebellious magisters, enforcing laws? Just because you guys did not see those deaths on screen does not mean they did not happen. So if you want to talk moral, sinking vast amounts of money into raising everyone who died in this fight would likely hurt more than it helps.

OK, so what about having a god do it? Gods don't have to deal with pesky spell slot limitations, do they? Well no, but they have other limitations. You guys have a lot of death gods in your pantheon; Yss, the Merling King, and even the Old Gods to a certain degree. They do not really object to resurrections on a minr level, as you guys have been doing. It's a minor disruption of the veil. Having a meaningful portion of the population be 'insured against death', however, would disrupt their domains. It would begin to fray the veil between life and death, and if they were the ones doing it... well that is how you lose the Death Domain and Gain the Undeath Domain. There is also the matter of the Faceless, who worship all the faces of Death. They would, in Viserys' opinion, be less than pleased to live in a realm with mass resurrections.

This needed up a lot more complex than first intended but it should at least deal with a lot of the points raised.

If you guys have more questions feel free to ask.
Made some edits to the info post, DP.

Thanks for putting this together. It's good to have it spelled out.
 
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Turning the death car around would be a chore.

The children of the forest and outsiders are clinically immortal, but rewriting the deepest fundamental building blocks of an entire universe is a project that makes fixing the outer planes look like switching a lightbulb.

Edit:
That's not the issue @tarrangar.
Eh if we fix the outer planes, this problem more or less fix itself, as long as we make sure evil but loyal citizens, go to a gods afterlife instead of the lower planes, with fixed outer planes, and the ability to make permanent planar portals, death is really just mandatory moving to a gated community, that you can't leave, but your friends can visit you at.
 
Eh if we fix the outer planes, this problem more or less fix itself, as long as we make sure evil but loyal citizens, go to a gods afterlife instead of the lower planes, with fixed outer planes, and the ability to make permanent planar portals, death is really just mandatory moving to a gated community, that you can't leave, but your friends can visit you at.
Good enough?
 
Turning the death car around would be a chore.

The children of the forest and outsiders are clinically immortal, but rewriting the deepest fundamental building blocks of an entire universe is a project that makes fixing the outer planes look like switching a lightbulb.

The Children of the Forest are not clinically immortal, just very long lived, about as much as Avariel and Teleriel (Sky and Sea elves).
 
Turning the death car around would be a chore.

The children of the forest and outsiders are clinically immortal, but rewriting the deepest fundamental building blocks of an entire universe is a project that makes fixing the outer planes look like switching a lightbulb.

Edit:
That's not the issue @tarrangar.
I know cost is far from the only issue, I just wanted to point out, that the cost part of the issue, can be very mitigated by only offering reincarnation.
Yep, especially if we make a system, where those in the afterlife, can rent an item of magic jar, and possess a soulless body made in one of our forges, to go on vacation outside their afterlife.
 
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I think I'm the only one who is actually interested in poking this particular bear again (though in my defense I thought it was a different animal) so I'm just going to drop it. I was looking to short circuit a future headache, not resurrect an ancient one.

In the interest of having a more interesting discussion, do any of you guys think a Nail of Blood would let Viserys cast in low magic areas or anti magic fields?

The item only specifies dead magic zones, but it works by letting the wielder draw on their own life force to cast, so it might reasonably be able to side step effects that only cut them off from magical energy instead of actively counter their spells.
Holy crap, that's a good item. I wouldn't allow it to work in an AMF, but it's still really good. Just being able to cast some spells in low or magic dead zones could be very helpful in the future. Is this an item we can use, @DragonParadox?
 
Holy crap, that's a good item. I wouldn't allow it to work in an AMF, but it's still really good. Just being able to cast some spells in low or magic dead zones could be very helpful in the future. Is this an item we can use, @DragonParadox?

*rolls for it*

Marwyn knows how to make them.

They are not available from planar enchanters because it's not an issue they face often.

Informative.

I suppose I would ask if any of the "mortal" races are clinically immortal. Drow for example?

No, they are a kind of elf therefore just long lived also.
 
On the matter of Resurrection:
I know we already made a few laws on this subject in quest to help divert issues of mass rezes, but nice to hear that in reality unlikely to be a huge scale thing since the most basic spell is well outside of usual soft cap for NPCs. Obviously you could get around it with dark magic rituals or shit, but that is why we got the Inquisition.

At least being warforged is an option for lingering spirits and such, though not sure if possible to go from normal meat mortal to warforged.
 
I know we already made a few laws on this subject in quest to help divert issues of mass rezes, but nice to hear that in reality unlikely to be a huge scale thing since the most basic spell is well outside of usual soft cap for NPCs. Obviously you could get around it with dark magic rituals or shit, but that is why we got the Inquisition.

At least being warforged is an option for lingering spirits and such, though not sure if possible to go from normal meat mortal to warforged.
Making someone into a Warforged is something we already have the research for, extracting your soul into a soul gem, work equally well for the undead and mortals.
 
Yeh aight, imma sleep through all teh updates today as well.
G'night all.

Please don't waste time needlessly, finishing up the active threats is still a priority of our little war here.
 
Part MMMDCXIII: A Reckoning in Blood Writ
A Reckoning in Blood Writ

Twentieth Day of the Second Month 294 AC

Eight hundred and ten caskets would be traveling back to Sorcerer's Deep according to the Legion's final accounting, it would have been as much as three times as much in crippled soldiers and those who might perish from wound rot had it not been for access to healing magic. The worst losses were taken among the outriders on the left flank who had to weather the arrows of the enemy charioteers until the heavier cavalry could charge home and among the siege companies who traded salvos with the bone wagons of the enemy. Thankfully you had not lost any skyships through the valor of he manticore pilots and only three heralds on that push to the altar.

Your mages were also spared from trading spell-fire by the fact that the Sarnori seemed mostly inclined to use spells that empowered their own allies rather than those that harmed the enemy, ensuring that none of the mages called to serve alongside the Legion died in the fighting proper. Sadly a few did perish picking over the remains of the battlefield, helping to point out the remains of cursed and malicious magics.

None of the staff and high officers had died, though among the hardest hit companies the commanders were no less likely to have perished than the common soldiery. Ser Gerold delivers the first bit of news with relief and the second with grim satisfaction. He might be one of the highest officer in the land now, but no doubt he remembers being just one more 'knight' of the Golden Company, only a step above line infantry, and he, like others of similar background, have imposed in the Legion a culture of fighting from the front.

The last losses of note were a trio of minotaur fighters who had faced one of the stronger of what the legionaries had taken to calling 'death knights'. According to accounts they had they had practically hewed it limb even as its blade and cursed aura had sapped their life. The sorcerer attached to the company, a young woman with the fading accent of Dragonstone still in her voice, solemnly asks for a chance to light their pyres and send their souls on to the Lord of Light in whom both she and they hold their faith. "I already burned them halfway out there on the field, Your Grace. Seems only fair to finish it and may the Lord of Light judge me as he sees fit."

You would have to be blind not to see the guilt in her eyes, the question that will doubtless haunt her from this day on. Had all three of the minotaurs been dead when she had cast fire upon the death knight?

Not a question you can truly answer, but perhaps one you can obviate the need for. Melisandre catches your eye from across the plaza where the First Legion had pitched their tents. "Though they found the Lord of Light by paths stranger and darker than most, they fought valiantly in the protection of life. I would see them restored if you would allow it."

The implication is obvious, being able to end her post-battle sermon by bringing three of the fallen whose exploits had already begun to be known to the whole expeditionary force would likely strengthen many's faith in the Lord of Light, and perhaps draw others to His worship.

1st Legion
  • 201 Siege Engineers
  • 99 Outriders
  • 20 Heavy Horse
  • 57 Assault Troopers
  • 126 Heavy infantry
  • 3 Minotaur Fighters
9th Legion
  • 99 Outriders
  • 20 Heavy Horse
  • 25 Heavy infantry
8th Legion
  • 99 Outriders
  • 20 Heavy Horse
  • 25 Heavy infantry
Total Legion losses: 810

Special Assets Lost:
  • 2 Wizards (Level 5)
  • 1 Adept (Level 4)
  • Soft Strider (Ranger 7)
  • 1 Mind Dragon
  • 2 Fiery Darkenbeasts
  • 6 Darkenbeast riders

Who do you draw back from death's embrace?

[] Soft Strider

[] The mages

[] The minotaurs
-[] Allow Meliandre to do so
-[] Do it yourself


OOC: If Mel raises the minotaurs she is doing it on her own dime.
 
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Definitely the minotaurs. You're endangered! :o @DragonParadox, I hope by now the Minotaurs have all been talked to that we're going to resurrect all of them and that we'll be peeved if they decide to stay dead.

[X] Resurrections
-[X] Soft Strider
-[X] Mind Dragon
-[X] The mages
-[X] Minotaurs

--[X] Allow Melisandre to do so
 
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Seems a simple choice to me. They made their faith with the LoL they should be rezzed by him.

Don't see much point in trying to spin this politically to be honest. It's like making a guy get KFC when he wanted Popeyes, either way you're going home with chicken.

[X] Soft Strider
[X] 2 Wizards
[X] 1 Adept
[X] 1 Mind Dragon
[X] 2 Fiery Dragonbeasts
[X] 6 Fiery Dragonbeast Riders
[X] The minotaurs
-[X] Allow Meliandre to do so
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that have 21 (22 if we use the alchemical item I found) ressurection slots with a chained reached true ressurection

There is a mind dragon and 2 fiery drakenbeasts that we definitely want ressurected. Then there is 6 fiery drakenbeast riders that I am unsure how valuable they are.
 
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