A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
[X] Azel
At least his tricky interpersonal problem doesn't involve any ancient feuds, huge age gaps, or inbreeding. That puts him way above average for a Westerosi lord.
At least his tricky interpersonal problem doesn't involve any ancient feuds, huge age gaps, or inbreeding. That puts him way above average for a Westerosi lord.
I don't think Viserys should be throwing any shade on inbreeding all things considered.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
"Inbreeding got us to where we are today! I will thank you kindly not to disparage my culture or heritage, Ser!"I don't think Viserys should be throwing any shade on inbreeding all things considered.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
No worries, DP. It gave us a nice insight into Melisandre's character and the past which shaped her into the woman she has become.
Vote closed.
Part MMMCDVII: Old Ways and New Laws
Old Ways and New Laws
Twenty Second Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC
Thankfully Lord Harman Uller is not one to mince words, nor veil himself behind courtiers' games. Where Lord Dayne concerned himself with the place of the Faith and the nature of kingship in your realm, and Lady Blackmont with the culture and customs of Dorne, the Lord of Hellholt seems most worried about the pace of the changes that you are championing. "I actually read things that come out of Sorcerer's Deep, Your Grace, and not just the parchments on monsters and magic. I'm not one to complain about the marriage and inheritance laws for my own sake, House Uller's succession is as solid as the Hellholt's foundations, but there'll be arguments over it from all across the realm, mark my words..."
"Some would complain over being given silver because they are used to spending copper," you counter with an old Braavosi saying. "New tools, new laws, new ways of doings things are necessary to fit the blessings that this new age brings and to face its challenges. The tide is shifting, the only thing left for us to decide is how to meet it."
"And those who won't or can't face it as you will shall be swept away in steel and dragonfire?" An eyebrow arcs in askance as the old lord leans upon his sword. Not the proper way to treat a sword, though you doubt that is why Ser Richard is stiffening beside you.
"Those who break the law will be dealt with by those institutions most suited for the task of enforcing it upon them. I sincerely hope it does not come to using dragons for the task," you reply easily, beginning to see what his worries are rooted in. Harman Uller is old enough to have lived through the whole of your father's reign. He too had grand ideas, one after another. The thought of King Aerys the Second of his Name with dragons does not bear contemplating.
"The consequences of trying to swim against the flow of the world without harming the realm and its citizens is most likely to be irrelevance," Dany interjects firmly. "So it would be in Volantis as much as in Oldtown, in Lys as much as White Harbor."
"'Citizens'," Lord Uller muses, seeming not the least bit startled to be addressed thus by Dany. "An Essosi word that, carrying the weight of responsibility as much as privilege, those whose voices guide the city in times of peace and protect it in times of war. Tell me, Your Grace, do you truly believe you can make citizens of those who have lived their whole lives as smallfolk? I have read those laws too, of raising the voices of the commons to a lord's ear, or a governors', and to tell the full truth I worry of how they might use that power or whom might use them to get it. It does not take much to make a rabble rouser, less now with sorcery to gild one's tongue."
"These last years have seen slaves rise from their chains to take on the responsibilities of peace and war," you point out. "Perhaps, my lord, you have too grim a view of the challenges men can rise to."
"Fear of the lash and the collar might drive men to take up arms in your legions. If there is one thing my misspent youth has taught me is that war is easier to win than peace." Lord Uller shakes his head in doubt, though not entirely resolved in his position.
What do you reply?
[] Write in
OOC: A bit short, I really should have made this part of the last update, but what's done is done.
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I know we're supposed to say something reassuring now, but this line makes itch to point out just how much war we're going to be getting.
We could point that out actually. Say something about how there will be plenty of war coming to temper and unify the realm.
Someone else would need to phrase it though.
Someone else would need to phrase it though.
- Location
- United States
Sweet summer child, you know not of the wars to come. There will be precious little peace in the days that follow.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
[X] "Peace is of course a desirable outcome, my lord, and a goal I work toward whenever possible, but it is not merely peace for its own sake that I seek, but the peace of a realm united. If we are to survive the trials to come in this new age, the forces and powers arrayed against us, we cannot afford petty conflicts between rival houses or quarreling kingdoms. "
-[X] "There must not only be peace, my lord, but prosperity and strength, so that humanity isn't swept away by a tide of ravenous monsters or crushed beneath an endless blizzard. You fear the changes I wish to bring to Westeros, but I fear the outcome should I fail to enact those changes."
--[X] Go on to explain in greater detail exactly what we face, the threats we have managed to deal with, those we have merely delayed or mitigated, and those that are yet to come.
-[X] "There must not only be peace, my lord, but prosperity and strength, so that humanity isn't swept away by a tide of ravenous monsters or crushed beneath an endless blizzard. You fear the changes I wish to bring to Westeros, but I fear the outcome should I fail to enact those changes."
--[X] Go on to explain in greater detail exactly what we face, the threats we have managed to deal with, those we have merely delayed or mitigated, and those that are yet to come.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
"There are at least 3 different planes of existence that are infinite in scope and numberless in fiends that would tear our world asunder and drown us in the corpses of all we've ever known or dared hold dear. If I can get us anything resembling peace I will consider my life's work done."
"..."
"Anyway if it's responsibilities you're worried about we offer schooling to those who are willing and a smart man does far better work than one forced into ignorance and all that."
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
It also got us Aerys and Rhaegar, I'm more inclined to say that we were very lucky to get Viserys, Dany and Rhaella, despite the inbreeding, as opposed to say that they were just normal idiots.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
"Have I mentioned that I'm busy saving the world, too busy to kill recalcitrant nobles unless they get in the way of the whole saving the world business?"
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conceding the point about the idea that the populous is incapable of being trusted with power is unlikely to get him fully on board. We'd be better served by attempting to convince him that the natural spread of power from the growing wealth and magic of the general public makes treating them as smallfolk instead of citizens unfeasible.
This is a turning point in history where the poor masses have started to gain the leverage and incentive to involve themselves in the governance of their society. The landed elite won't be able to say no without waging civil war after civil war over it.
This is a turning point in history where the poor masses have started to gain the leverage and incentive to involve themselves in the governance of their society. The landed elite won't be able to say no without waging civil war after civil war over it.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with discussions of fantasy socioeconomic factors and more
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Hmmm, well, I'm not opposed to teaching him some of the socioeconomic principles behind the Imperium.
[X] Dragons and Demagogues
-[X] Talking about greater threats seems a bit lackluster, for however much it worked with those who were ignorant of the problems plaguing people on a wider scope, Lord Uller does not seem ignorant about the happenings of the world.
-[X] Since it is the case that at this point, anyone who isn't turning you away at the door has agreed, at least in principle, with the conceit that there is something of worth behind accepting a King who isn't just a "first among equals" that Aegon's laxity in setting up further institutions had made the Iron Throne's current chair warmer.
-[X] This does not mean that everyone agrees the level of power which the Crown wields should rise back to even the times where Aegon himself could be reasonably certain that he could cow the nobility into following his commands, or else the first King Viserys who could content himself with being maneuvered around politically but never blatantly countermanded.
-[X] You on the other hand have no interest in creating compromises in your authority, not when a fiend or other threats have used smaller cracks to make a terminal cancer out of any organization before. You can't allow Lords to run wild and plot and scheme while allowing interlopers to further poison the well of good will and cause harm to all for their interference.
-[X] You think that there is this belief that even with greater threats on the horizon, the Lords can use the King to act as a mediator and settle the problems themselves with their current resources once he has achieved a baseline agreement with his vassals, and it's just that Robert has no interest in that role which is stopping them from doing so.
-[X] Or else on a local level a belief that they can isolate Dorne (or any of the other Kingdoms) from the rest of the world's problems and using the same microcosm of the above, just replace "King" with "Prince" where appropriate.
-[X] This is false. All great states you care to name operate on similar principles and have weathered tribulations far greater than Westeros has experienced since ancient times, yet from those times you are aware, for all their great works, nothing of their civilizations remain.
-[X] Dornish culture has more in common with that of the Rhoynar than the First Men, or even the Andals come to that, as a consequence to the troubles which have plagued them for the last thousand years or more, yet none of those things have anything in common with Hell who has reigned supreme over the Planes for who knows how long, or the realms of Genies who have seen even more ancient polities cast down into dust and carry the emblems and heirlooms from those times still like an heir turned old and grey, but still remembering what was.
-[X] You have a dream of a world which is safe, rich and from which its people can pursue their interests within the confines of the law, while the same structures which supports this state of affairs keeps them in check with the commiserate power granted to them.
-[X] This is not simply a direct consequence of your actions, so much as a consequence of what newfound agency of the lower classes, of extreme economic inequality slackening and the greater personal power of magic landing in the hands of those who were not raised from birth with the common expectation of authority backing them from the start.
-[X] If you do not create these structures for them to settle into, they will forcibly enact their own, which will leave everyone bloodied and weak, something that, as Lord Uller already knows, cannot be afforded.
-[X] Moreover, a strong leader at the top creates a unifying icon from which all heads will turn and take inference from. A man from the streets rising to the halls of power does not just face a Lord who has obstructed him and the challenge of casting him down for their own gain, but instead contends with the notion that he faces yourself.
-[X] It is one thing to grasp that a Lord is just a man who has been entrusted with power, that they can be attacked socially, economically or militarily, but it is quite another to consider the same of a Dragon who's every breath is death and every word honeyed gold. Moreso when every arm of state, from the Inquisition to the Administration and the Scholarum, is conferred their authority by you.
-[X] So the Crown is the State and vice versa, both of which have feudal obligations not only in achieving peace and prosperity for their vassals, but also their subjects, or as you prefer, citizens. The Citizens simply have a stake in the same, adding one more link to the chain unbroken.
-[X] There is of course the concern that you should prove inadequate to meet those obligations, which would flow ever downwards into everything you touched, or else that you should make yourself into a tyrant... but you have a hatred for tyrants and an intense aversion to corruption, and it would be within every prospective vassal's remit to repudiate you or indeed anyone else who failed to be mindful of their duties in the first place. You encourage it in fact, you write the law so that it will be followed, even by yourself, not so that it will merely be more convenient to you but negatively impact everyone else. Such is a path paved to Hell.
This is erroneous since there are innate limits of how organized you can become when you are are constantly sorting through relations-based politics rather than using the innate mechanisms of the state to do that which is civically necessary.
[X] Dragons and Demagogues
-[X] Talking about greater threats seems a bit lackluster, for however much it worked with those who were ignorant of the problems plaguing people on a wider scope, Lord Uller does not seem ignorant about the happenings of the world.
-[X] Since it is the case that at this point, anyone who isn't turning you away at the door has agreed, at least in principle, with the conceit that there is something of worth behind accepting a King who isn't just a "first among equals" that Aegon's laxity in setting up further institutions had made the Iron Throne's current chair warmer.
-[X] This does not mean that everyone agrees the level of power which the Crown wields should rise back to even the times where Aegon himself could be reasonably certain that he could cow the nobility into following his commands, or else the first King Viserys who could content himself with being maneuvered around politically but never blatantly countermanded.
-[X] You on the other hand have no interest in creating compromises in your authority, not when a fiend or other threats have used smaller cracks to make a terminal cancer out of any organization before. You can't allow Lords to run wild and plot and scheme while allowing interlopers to further poison the well of good will and cause harm to all for their interference.
-[X] You think that there is this belief that even with greater threats on the horizon, the Lords can use the King to act as a mediator and settle the problems themselves with their current resources once he has achieved a baseline agreement with his vassals, and it's just that Robert has no interest in that role which is stopping them from doing so.
-[X] Or else on a local level a belief that they can isolate Dorne (or any of the other Kingdoms) from the rest of the world's problems and using the same microcosm of the above, just replace "King" with "Prince" where appropriate.
-[X] This is false. All great states you care to name operate on similar principles and have weathered tribulations far greater than Westeros has experienced since ancient times, yet from those times you are aware, for all their great works, nothing of their civilizations remain.
-[X] Dornish culture has more in common with that of the Rhoynar than the First Men, or even the Andals come to that, as a consequence to the troubles which have plagued them for the last thousand years or more, yet none of those things have anything in common with Hell who has reigned supreme over the Planes for who knows how long, or the realms of Genies who have seen even more ancient polities cast down into dust and carry the emblems and heirlooms from those times still like an heir turned old and grey, but still remembering what was.
-[X] You have a dream of a world which is safe, rich and from which its people can pursue their interests within the confines of the law, while the same structures which supports this state of affairs keeps them in check with the commiserate power granted to them.
-[X] This is not simply a direct consequence of your actions, so much as a consequence of what newfound agency of the lower classes, of extreme economic inequality slackening and the greater personal power of magic landing in the hands of those who were not raised from birth with the common expectation of authority backing them from the start.
-[X] If you do not create these structures for them to settle into, they will forcibly enact their own, which will leave everyone bloodied and weak, something that, as Lord Uller already knows, cannot be afforded.
-[X] Moreover, a strong leader at the top creates a unifying icon from which all heads will turn and take inference from. A man from the streets rising to the halls of power does not just face a Lord who has obstructed him and the challenge of casting him down for their own gain, but instead contends with the notion that he faces yourself.
-[X] It is one thing to grasp that a Lord is just a man who has been entrusted with power, that they can be attacked socially, economically or militarily, but it is quite another to consider the same of a Dragon who's every breath is death and every word honeyed gold. Moreso when every arm of state, from the Inquisition to the Administration and the Scholarum, is conferred their authority by you.
-[X] So the Crown is the State and vice versa, both of which have feudal obligations not only in achieving peace and prosperity for their vassals, but also their subjects, or as you prefer, citizens. The Citizens simply have a stake in the same, adding one more link to the chain unbroken.
-[X] There is of course the concern that you should prove inadequate to meet those obligations, which would flow ever downwards into everything you touched, or else that you should make yourself into a tyrant... but you have a hatred for tyrants and an intense aversion to corruption, and it would be within every prospective vassal's remit to repudiate you or indeed anyone else who failed to be mindful of their duties in the first place. You encourage it in fact, you write the law so that it will be followed, even by yourself, not so that it will merely be more convenient to you but negatively impact everyone else. Such is a path paved to Hell.
This is erroneous since there are innate limits of how organized you can become when you are are constantly sorting through relations-based politics rather than using the innate mechanisms of the state to do that which is civically necessary.
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- Location
- ?????????
[X] Crake
enigma1995
Gentleman Beholder
[X] Crake
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Crake
