The problem is that important projects are always going to come up, and have reasonable justifications for adding one functionality or another. We have a tendency to choose all the options and eat the cost for the sake of whatever we're doing at the moment. If we continue to try to do this with everything we will eventually run out of money at an inopportune time, and depending on what exactly that time is we could lose quite a lot.

We do need to try to mitigate the issue, but we should at least try a few alternatives before defaulting to loading barrels of cash into a moon chaser and making it rain on the fortress.

[X] egoo
I'm not opposed to thrift, but skimping on the defenses of a fortress that's supposed to hold off a planar superpower strikes me as the very epitome of Penny wise and pound foolish.
 
The accounting (money related) ones. With some bonus material to track other spending. Oh, and that's not to say I didn't do other stuff over the last month, like the military sheet, the Realm sheet, the turn plan proposals, the strategic actions... that's actually about it.

Still, a productive couple of weeks.
 
Different idea for the Fortress:

Sigils of Suppression: A globe of invulnerability fills the entire cavern, as represented by the arcane sigils that areinscribed upon the walls. No spell effects of 4th level or lower function within this cavern. Such spells cannot becast within the cavern, nor can their effects extend towithin the cavern. A targeted dispel magic can temporarily suppress sigils ofsuppression, just like any other magic item.
Moderate abjuration; CL 11th; Craft Wondrous Item,globe of invulnerability; Price 33,000 gp.

Could this be useful?
Not over the whole of the fortress, but there might be locations where a flat no to low-level magic can be helpful.
The section on Lair Wards says that they have a range of about 400ft if there is no cavern to fill.
 
Where's the post with the current fortress plans?


A wide variety of defenses, we're probably already using this.


Suck teleports into a designated space, anyone without the password gets got. No SR, unlike dimensional lock, and passing the will save just makes you not teleport at all. Expensive, though.


Can either deal damage or store a spell for later use. Cheaper than permanency in the latter role. Probably already using this too.
 
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[X] egoo

If other dragons find out just how much money they could make if they went into business like us I can see a rise of super elite dragon white collar managers running corporations that span various planes rather than sleeping all the time.
 
We're not, at least not yet. @tarrangar wants to start accepting small blood sacrifices via people donating to purpose grown Heart Trees, for later use to grow creatures in the Fungal Forge. I'm not outright opposed to it, but I don't think it's as simple as he is making it out to be.

At a minimum, it would need some sort of research action, IMO, to figure out how to set the system up, get the OG on board, and implement it. If that's the case, the earliest we could begin researching it would be next month, or the months following.
I talked with DP when I first proposed it, and he said the old gods could just do it, what with it being a matter of growing plants, which is both the old gods specialty, and one of their favorite things to do.

Or at least that's how I understood his comment, that other gods would find running such a system slightly distasteful, but the old gods have nothing against growing plants, even if it's the same plant over and over again.

It would need a minor advertising and administration action of course, to tell people about the new Weirwood, and set up the reagent collection, the counter for how many healers has been grown, and the free snacks for those who donate, but that's not exactly major actions.
There's a significant "I want to steal all this blood drive blood to enact a giant city killing ritual because lol I'm a cultist/fiend" security risk component to Tarrangar's plan.
Not really, the blood is immediately consumed to make reagents, so while the reagents could be stolen, the blood is handed over to the old gods right away, who give us reagents for it, which we spend to make healers for our people.
 
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[X] egoo

If other dragons find out just how much money they could make if they went into business like us I can see a rise of super elite dragon white collar managers running corporations that span various planes rather than sleeping all the time.

Eurgh, don't. They do not have our eugenics and govermential system in mind. At least, those who aren't amongst us. That path could only lead to Asmodeus-level of eugenics.
 
so here i am again with a question from me binging this quest. why were/are people salty about Bahamut? at the point where i was in the quest it made no sense to me so i would like an explenation about it
 
so here i am again with a question from me binging this quest. why were/are people salty about Bahamut? at the point where i was in the quest it made no sense to me so i would like an explenation about it

Viserys died (of something stupid that I can't remember) once, and Tiamat tempted Dany/us with his resurrection. Apparently, if she/we had said no, Bahamut would have stepped in. It was a bit of a saltfest all around.
 
Viserys died (of something stupid that I can't remember) once, and Tiamat tempted Dany/us with his resurrection. Apparently, if she/we had said no, Bahamut would have stepped in. It was a bit of a saltfest all around.
he died attempting to break the curse of blindness of the bright fey guy
... i really don't see how it's Bahumat's fault there, Dany alreaddy had been in contact with Tiamat and from what i got from the conversation with the bahamut cleric bahamut is kinda scattered and low on power, it makes sense to me that Tiamat got there first
 
so here i am again with a question from me binging this quest. why were/are people salty about Bahamut? at the point where i was in the quest it made no sense to me so i would like an explenation about it
This is an argument that has been rehashed to death. Most of the people in the thread really aren't enthusiastic about it being brought up again. But a quick summary of the points for brevity's sake.

And spoilers, obviously, since you're asking for details without having fully read the quest.
1. The reason people were pissed on Dany's behalf was that Bahamut was treating that moment for a child who just lost her brother like a test of character instead of simply helping her. Waymar had a similarly low view of Bahamut for the same reason when he found out.
2. This is a big spoiler, but Bahamut doesn't like us or our empire. This was an OOC post made by DP to minimize on the salt due to how many times this exact same argument keeps getting brought up.
 
This is an argument that has been rehashed to death. Most of the people in the thread really aren't enthusiastic about it being brought up again. But a quick summary of the points for brevity's sake.

And spoilers, obviously, since you're asking for details without having fully read the quest.
1. The reason people were pissed on Dany's behalf was that Bahamut was treating that moment for a child who just lost her brother like a test of character instead of simply helping her. Waymar had a similarly low view of Bahamut for the same reason when he found out.
2. This is a big spoiler, but Bahamut doesn't like us or our empire. This was an OOC post made by DP to minimize on the salt due to how many times this exact same argument keeps getting brought up.
k, just felt very odd while reading it and catching up. what i got from 1 was not a morality test but just Tiamat getting there first but i guess i misinterpreted it and when was 2 posted?
 
1. The reason people were pissed on Dany's behalf was that Bahamut was treating that moment for a child who just lost her brother like a test of character instead of simply helping her. Waymar had a similarly low view of Bahamut for the same reason when he found out.
2. This is a big spoiler, but Bahamut doesn't like us or our empire. This was an OOC post made by DP to minimize on the salt due to how many times this exact same argument keeps getting brought up.
2 is right, but for 1, while yes Bahamut did do that, he literally had no choice but to wait, Dany is red dragon blooded, which mean Tiamat get first dibs, Bahamut couldn't interfere until Dany denied Tiamat, it simply wasn't within his power, so Bahamut decided to be as generous as he could be, and make the payment he required for resurrecting Viserys, be that Dany denied Tiamat, which basically is Bahamut saying, that if Dany act in a way that make it possible for him to help, he will help for free.
 
2 is right, but for 1, while yes Bahamut did do that, he literally had no choice but to wait, Dany is red dragon blooded, which mean Tiamat get first dibs, Bahamut couldn't interfere until Dany denied Tiamat, it simply wasn't within his power, so Bahamut decided to be as generous as he could be, and make the payment he required for resurrecting Viserys, be that Dany denied Tiamat, which basically is Bahamut saying, that if Dany act in a way that make it possible for him to help, he will help for free.
That is what i thought happened hence my confusion about the salt, anyway thanks for awnsering my question
 
k, just felt very odd while reading it and catching up. what i got from 1 was not a morality test but just Tiamat getting there first but i guess i misinterpreted it and when was 2 posted?
2 was posted months after.
2 is right, but for 1, while yes Bahamut did do that, he literally had no choice but to wait, Dany is red dragon blooded, which mean Tiamat get first dibs, Bahamut couldn't interfere until Dany denied Tiamat, it simply wasn't within his power, so Bahamut decided to be as generous as he could be, and make the payment he required for resurrecting Viserys, be that Dany denied Tiamat, which basically is Bahamut saying, that if Dany act in a way that make it possible for him to help, he will help for free.
I refuse to rehash this argument again. This is why I hate this topic.
 
k, just felt very odd while reading it and catching up. what i got from 1 was not a morality test but just Tiamat getting there first but i guess i misinterpreted it and when was 2 posted?
Here are the relevant quotes from DP and Azel (who was co-QMing at that moment) :
I'm going to say this bluntly to save on the salt, Bahamut would probably be one of the hardest gods to get on board and require the most sacrifices from you guys. I say this because Viserys has a good knowledge religions and knows something of his character and tenets.
Just one little comment on the Bahamut matter.

You guys can't stomach Lucan. Do you honestly think that Bahamut who is ten times as holy and a thousand times as sure of himself will be better?
We had further confirmations from DP stating the same thing since, at least twice IIRC.

I'm not starting the arguments again, btw, just relaying the relevant quotes.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jan 8, 2020 at 4:58 AM, finished with 130 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] Resolve to spend some more time with Balerion.
    [X] Meraxes being worshipped as actively as she is is a fine thing - except we know of the danger that grows alongside her.
    -[X] Talk to Zherys and Meraxes, try to ensure she doesn't "return to life" for a while longer so that we won't have to worry about the 15th getting proactive.
    [X] Visit Vialesk again
    -[X] Talk to Star Admiral Kharban of the Splendid Armada, get him more fleshforged creatures if he so desires (likely).
    --[X] Attempt to secure a military alliance against Deep Ones.
    -[X] Grab the crafting orders we made, make new ones.
    -[X] See if the Council of Vialesk has changed their mind about setting up Planar Terminus station - with all the trade we brought in with us.
    --[X] Imply that if they don't, they will greatly lose out on the trade, since we'll look into opening one in the Emirate of Mardja anyway.
    [X] Visit the Emirate of Mardja, inquire about setting up a Planar Terminus station there.
    [X] Look further for mercenary companies capable of effectively fighting Deep Ones.
    -[X] Asking around in Mardja seems a good start, what with us having made a defense pact.
    [X] We already got the crafters and Enchanters from Vialesk and Hampa, now would be the time to try and get more from:
    -[X] Dalaqua (focus: crafters/artisans, also any enchanters we can get).
    -[X] Zerbat (focus: artisans, also any enchanters we can get).
    -[X] Dawa (focus: crafters (fishnets), also any enchanters we can get).
    -[X] Kela (focus: crafters (massive amounts), also any enchanters we can get).
    [X] Look into the situation between the Emirate of Kela and the Wyrm Galzerai - learn the truth about their relationship insofar as we can, there is a possibility of us manning a rescue mission of sorts, in order to get Kela's resource support.
    [X] Look into the possibility of bringing more Marid Emirates into your war on Deep Ones:
    -[X] Dawa (fishnet-wielding units, said to have been excelling in the last war).
    -[X] Kela (huge amounts of crafters, so possibly war-machines of sorts..?).
    [X] Attempt to have a meeting with Althazi the Deathless - learning his price for use of his forces against Deep Ones, and looking for guarantees he won't establish a foothold on Plane of Balance once those are vanquished.
    [X] Visit the Gith Monastery again.
    -[X] Gather the ordered items.
    -[X] Offer more fleshforged creatures
    -[X] Gather the promised lore on Psionics (basics) and Aberrations (all they can share).
    -[X] Make new item-orders:
    --[X] 1 [1/day, Slotless, Unaugmented (7 ML)] item of Zealous Fury (6,854 IM).
    --[X] 2 [1/day, Slotless, Unaugmented] items of Hustle. ()
    --[X] 1 [1/day, Slotless, Augmented (15th ML)] item of Empty Mind (3,672 IM).
    --[X] 1 [Slotless, (15th ML)] Third Eye: Conceal (24,000 IM).
    --[X] X-amount of [(15th ML)] Third Eye: Conceal (effective Psionic Mindblank items - 12,000 IM per item).
    [X] AFTER TIAMAT'S FORCES ARE DEALT WITH:
    -[X] Hunt for some Winter-touched creatures Beyond the Wall.
    --[X] Variety is the answer here, grab animals, monsters, Fey - anything possible, really. (High-level Divination guarantees some good non-Mindblanked finds right off the bat)
    --[X] Have them handed over to Djinn for their research on cleansing Void-corruption.
    -[X] If there is time - look into setting up a counter-trap to those Efreeti hunting the Char-Serpent(s) in Oil-seas of Plane of Fire.
    [X] You have received reports of Inquisition on the creatures you once encountered beneath the King's Landing. While your Empire is fairly progressive towards the non-humans, same most assuredly can't be said of Westeros as it is now - sooner or later, something will happen, either they'll be discovered and rooted out, or some corruption may get to them, those forced to hide away from the rest of the world in fear.
    -[X] Visit the Rat-folk beneath the King's Landing, try to convince them to move cities - Sorcerer's Deep will freely offer them a safe haven if they agree to become your subjects.
    [X] Arrange a personal meeting(s) with the remaining 2 rulers of Lorath - attempt to persuade them into joining the Empire, claiming economic growth and stability as reasons, grease the wheels where necessary by bribes.
    -[X] Additionally, look into "the Shadowbinder" who started a school in Lorath - while the regulations used in it clearly make it seem like a preparation for joining The Empire, we are curious about sich a mage - since we had only limited contact with Shadow-mages so far.
    [X] Meet with the Candlekeep Courtier, hash out what he needs for him and his Fey to be more effective at the task we put him on - we are talking gear, we are talking consumables, we are talking potential House of Mirrors support.
    [X] Have the talk with Stannis - the Storm God can do much for the realm, and him personally. So far he seemed a goal-minded man, so we believe he'll see the merit in converting to the just and practical God of First Men.
    -[X] In case of success, also retrieve the Heart Tree from the Storm's End - putting an exact fleshforged copy, with permanenced (Diamond dust) Fire Resistance, on it.
    [X] Meet Galeneia, the daughter of Merling King.
    -[X] If she succeeded in getting the lore on forging the water-spirits, barter for it.
    [X] Look for a way to contact the "exiles" of Faceless Men under the false persona of Liu of Qarth - under the pretenses of relaying to them the research of the tablet you completed.
    [X] Visit the Dornish tourney in a guise - the lords shall be properly briefed on many a thing.
    [X] Loot the entirety of Mercury Lake in PoE.
    [X] Grow Heart Trees for provinces with active Inquisition Bases (provided enough sacrifices/items are available for that).
    -[X] Stepstones
    -[X] Tyrosh
    -[X] Lys
    -[X] Myr
    -[X] Braavos
    -[X] Pentos
    -[X] Mantarys
    -[X] Tolos
    -[X] Naath
    -[X] Eastern Basilisk Isles
    -[X] The Three Snakes
    -[X] Western Basilisk Isles
    [X] Grow "Plant Growth"-type Hearts Trees for the following greens (provided enough sacrifices/items are available for that):
    -[X] Golden Desert Tree seeds
    [X] Have someone talk to Laenor - the man clearly wanted time away from troubles, after all, he's been through much... but his knowledge may yet be of use for the coming generations. If he doesn't mind teaching in Scholarum..?
    [X] Have Dany use her Half-Celestial form's Hallow SLA with the Tongues spell attached to blanket the area where our normal SD MirrorVision broadcasts and performances originate from, ensuring that all the recipients understand everything said on the broadcast.
    [X] Restore the documents and the lore recovered from Ymeri's mansion in Volantis via the ash-to-book ritual.
    [X] Have the library of Storm's End copied.
    [X] Recover the lore of the Many-Faced-God written down by Faceless.
    [X] Have some Druid Creature Leshi/Treants busy themselves with increasing the population of the following magical plants acquired previously:
    -[X] Cassil seeds
    -[X] Flame Clove seeds
    -[X] Arkas Grass seeds
    [X] Have the 20 lbs of Void-touched Jade handed over to Djinn Cryomancers for their research in cleansing Void Corruption - with the full tale we know of it.
    -[X] Preferably, those shouldn't be consumed in the process - but we can live with it if the results would look really promising.
    [X] Have the Efreeti Wish-slaves, summoned alongside the Devils last month by their True Names, handed over to Shaitan/Djinn officials - perhaps making them into a propaganda move for all of Genie since the practice is as abhorrent to all of them.
    [X] Have school-temples of Zathir opened in Opaline Vault, Armun Kelisk, and Vialesk (and Mardja if possible).
    [X] Open a temple of Yss in Vialesk (and Mardja if possible).
    [X] With several educational institutions off-plane accepting the offer of student exchange, it would but make sense to keep an eye on it.
    -[X] Djinn Criomancers - will read lectures in SD for a month (12th month).
    -[X] Djinn Auxiliaries (Mystic Rangers) - lore needed for training acquired, we can train Mystic Rangers (starting, 12th month).
    -[X] Djinn Order of Stormweavers (Stormcasters) - agreed in principle, but need to free up a Master to visit beforehand - unknown when available.
    -[X] Shaitan War Academy (Warmages, Diviners, Officers, and Engineers) - tentative agreement, bureaucracy needs to be pushed through to start the exchange - either visit the Shaitan leader or send diplomatic envoy throughout several months.
    -[X] Shaitan Guild of Shapers (Magewrights) - accepted student exchange.
    [X] The lore of the Faceless Men is perilous indeed - presenting a danger to the very beings of those who may attempt to follow it without the sort of pact the Faceless have in place- but maybe, just maybe, there are those in your realm who will take such a path. You cannot in good conscience set aside the potential power this path may lead them to, and the potential usefulness of such assets.
    -[X] Talk to Ysandrix, some of our Fiends, maybe Vesill, potentially some of the most proficient humans (read: Inquisitor-level). Make the dangers clear and apparent, even we won't be able to blunt those.
    -[X] With Faceless seeking to bring Yss into the millennia-old pact, to better guard the Domains of [Death] from the Void, perhaps something on a smaller scale can be done to other gods of your realm? Inquire Zathir, Yss, the Ferryman, Old Gods, Weeping Lady, and the Goddess of Silver Moon if they'd be willing to grant knowledge and power to someone in such a way - and for what price.
    [X] Have Bloodraven!Varys get all of the Dragonbone outside of the Red Keep and into our possession and replaced with fleshforged fakes so that they can't be ritually used against the resurrected dragons.
    [X] On-screen show of efforts against poverty in The Empire.
    -[X] Efforts already available in SD - as a general policy kept in mind - are being spread everywhere we can:
    --[X] We provide the basics to the needy (food, housing).
    --[X] We have a job board for job seekers and employers looking to make job offers more visible.
    --[X] We provide various forms of education for children and criminals (reading and writing, a trade skill).
    --[X] We run massive businesses and government services that employ people.
    -[X] Further ways we can fight poverty:
    --[X] Get the Iron Bank to do microcredit (possibly backed by Divination?) or facilitate investor/entrepreneur links.
    --[X] Have a vote on how to stop rampant magitech from crashing huge swathes of our economy.
    [X] The Faceless Men that left Braavos - and the territory of your Empire - are unlikely to remain civil about practicing their rites with your Empire actively expanding its borders, and leaving them little place to do so. Eventually, they'll have to be dealt with, one way or another.
    -[X] Have Inquisition cross-reference cases of Assassinations/"peaceful deaths" that match the patterns of Faceless Men, and work even more closely with House of Mirrors, the Zomok Seer, and even the Divination-capable Companions on free time, if needs be, to find such events outside the Empire's borders.
 
I refuse to rehash this argument again. This is why I hate this topic.
Then stop spreading old misinformation, DragonParadox told us Bahamut was unable to interfere, before Tiamat had made her offer, whether he would have interfered if he could is unknown, he might still have decided to use Tiamat as a test, but it's a fact that he was unable to interfere, we don't know how he would have acted, if that wasn't the case.
 
I'm not opposed to thrift, but skimping on the defenses of a fortress that's supposed to hold off a planar superpower strikes me as the very epitome of Penny wise and pound foolish.
You guys are acting like I'm suggesting just leaving the fortress wide open to teleports. The options are not buy the deluxe protection or bust, and we don't actually know how it stacks up functionally against our own magic. The fact that it is more expensive doesn't automatically make it better, if we can get the same effect with some teleport traps and refusals why shouldn't we go that route? We should at the very least evaluate the possibility.

k, just felt very odd while reading it and catching up. what i got from 1 was not a morality test but just Tiamat getting there first but i guess i misinterpreted it and when was 2 posted?
A lot of people are so done with this topic that they won't bother posting the arguments they made when we were actually discussing it. You're not going to get the full context of the conversation, or the details we were going over at the time asking the thread about it now. Try running a thread search on bahamut and reading the last round or two of arguments if you want a better idea on the various positions in the thread.
 
I haven't started adding stuff into it yet (I'll probably start that this coming weekend), but I went ahead and set up the new crafting sheet for this month. Although we acquired a bunch of new enchanters last month, we only had access to them for part of that time. We'll have much more crafting capacity this month.

Last month, we did 697,863 IM in enchanting, which includes the 10% discounts for sentient Constructs we crafted. This month, however, we will have a crafting capacity of at least 894,000 IM, which is calculated before discounts for sentient Constructs are included or new numbers for the Scholarium are released, which is likely to give us a small handful of new crafters. When it's all said and done, we're likely to have well over 900,000 IM in crafting capacity.

That's good, because we keep finding new strategic projects to work on.
 
I haven't started adding stuff into it yet (I'll probably start that this coming weekend), but I went ahead and set up the new crafting sheet for this month. Although we acquired a bunch of new enchanters last month, we only had access to them for part of that time. We'll have much more crafting capacity this month.

Last month, we did 697,863 IM in enchanting, which includes the 10% discounts for sentient Constructs we crafted. This month, however, we will have a crafting capacity of at least 894,000 IM, which is calculated before discounts for sentient Constructs are included or new numbers for the Scholarium are released, which is likely to give us a small handful of new crafters. When it's all said and done, we're likely to have well over 900,000 IM in crafting capacity.

That's good, because we keep finding new strategic projects to work on.
As usual, the "the stuff we added to Companions X, Y, Z"-notes are highly appreciated.
We haven't gotten one for the 11th month, iirc.
 
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