- Location
- Classified
Remind me, do Pycelle's undead have anything special about them? That punch sounded like negative energy damage or something.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
The undead thrown together by Qyburn are plenty special, yes.
Not really in the way assumed, though.
- Location
- Germany
Nah. That last punch just tore something and he got some nasty inner bleeding.
- Location
- Classified
That's neat. We have any plans to utilize undead in any numbers? I know that I'm not going to be any help if that's the case, Pathfinder goes hard on "The undead and necromancy are inherently awful". Not much applicable content there.
- Location
- Germany
Talking about those Undead, we still have the Royal Ashes from Harren's loot.
Maybe gift them to Qyburn so he can make some improved Undead when he finds worthwile subjects?
Maybe gift them to Qyburn so he can make some improved Undead when he finds worthwile subjects?
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
This template specifically calls for "no NE corrupting people/terrain around the NE", so Pathfinder's bullcrap can suck it
There is further research to apply such measures to sentient Undead, but will take a fairly hefty bit of it.
Otherwise, they aren't yet a better alternative to using the fleshforged creatures.
The research line can lead into disrupting creations of Others tho...
Aren't those limited by use to those who killed Harren?
- Location
- Germany
No.
The Crown was limited, but the Ashes are just an usable item any Necromancer can utilize.
15 portions left, IIRC.
- Location
- United States
We need to make something really special with these. They're a sadly limited resource.
- Location
- Classified
This template specifically calls for "no NE corrupting people/terrain around the NE", so Pathfinder's bullcrap can suck it
There is further research to apply such measures to sentient Undead, but will take a fairly hefty bit of it.
Otherwise, they aren't yet a better alternative to using the fleshforged creatures.
The research line can lead into disrupting creations of Others tho...
Aren't those limited by use to those who killed Harren?
Yeah, it's just that a lot of the undead material out there is just too nasty (ex. ghouls, morhgs) or self-replicating, which we're against (also ghouls and morhgs).
While we're on the subject of necromancy, I just looked over Qyburn's sheet and saw the Wall of Flesh spell. In what situation are you going to have sufficient corpses in the vicinity to make a sizable wall out of them?
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Yes, but not much.
Ultimatly they don't do anything a proper Necromancer buying into the Corpsecrafter line of feats can't do by himself.
For Harren they where a tool to get better minions while having near zero necromantic skill himself.
Having a few Skeletons or Zombies be faster, tougher, stronger isn't the biggest deal in itself.
- Location
- Germany
Lead-infused Undead?
I think Mindblank is not as good as it sounds here. These creatures are mindless and immune to mind-affecting anyway. They know nothing that could be divined, have or understand no plans at all.
If the controller is mindblanked, there is effectivly no need to do so for his minions.
This would change if we applied it to higher Undead, but we have not yet found anyone who would want to be a lead-plated Lich, so it's relativly pointless for now.
- Location
- Germany
Without the lead-plating, you can still divine their presence and attacks. With the plating, they could strike with impunity and total surprise, even if, say an Elder Brain was keeping a few brains on the lookout for shenanigans.
Vote closed.
- Location
- Germany
Presence yes, but not future attacks, I would think?
After all they have no plans, no intend to attack. If they are ordered by a Mindblanked controller to attack, they should only appear on the radar the moment they get that order.
I think that's how we prepared for Tyrosh, by letting nobody outside a Lair-warded Mindblank Room know about the attack until shortly before.
- Location
- Germany
This is true, but you could disperse lead-clad undead as a harassment force without having to micromanage them with someone under Mindblank. A few dozen undead sea serpents with aquatic necrocrafts as support could do a ton of damage to Sahuagin settlements and the like before anyone even understands what is going on, let alone can muster a defense.
- Location
- Germany
On the one hand I agree, on the other hand this kind of harressment requires intelligence to be effective and we aren't there yet, as far as I understand.
So priority would be to research applying the Soulforged Template to sentient Undead first. Animal Intelligence would propably be enough for a reasonably effective ambush-predator, so no need to bring the ethical issues of volunteers into it yet.
So as I'm writing this, I had to pick up the thread of the narrative after Viserys got the Dawn Age books and there is the matter of what level of secrecy they have to be in. Personally I think the Schuolarum and accredited scholar level makes sense since the whole point of giving these books was so that the knowledge would not be lost and that is what Lya and Dany would argue for but if anyone can think of a reason why it would make sense to make it ultra secret now would be the time to say why.
- Location
- Germany
My intent was for them to go to the restricted section, not public, but not the high-security area where the books on how to artistically mutilate souls are stored.
Yeah that is what I meant, not the place apprentices or just random visitors can look up, but not Lya's vault of forbidden lore.
The subject-matter is is verging on cosmic horror level of grim, it's depression in books form as (mostly) written by angels. Not really the sort of thing you want bright eyed apprentices having access to
Last edited:
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm pretty well set against using Undead in large numbers. The Fungal and Flesh Forges are much too versatile, and capable of growing sufficiently powerful creatures at a good price, for it to ever be more economical or practical to use Undead in the same manner as we do purpose grown servitor creatures. If we're going to use Undead, I would prefer they be specialty units, made with a specific objective in mind which could not have been accomplished as well or as easily using a Forge-grown creature. I'm sure there will be times when all the various factors intersect just right to make Undead the better choice, though nothing is coming to mind at the moment (it's taking me much longer to wake up this morning than normal for some reason).
A large part of why I don't mind further research into Undead creation is that it opens up additional research options and expands our knowledge of the subject, which could in turn lead to the development of better means of controlling or destroying Undead created by other beings, the Others in particular. We'll never even come close to matching their unnatural prowess with creating and controlling massive numbers of Undead like the Others, but we could possibly learn how interfere with their abilities.
- Location
- Germany
@Goldfish, Undead are cheaper, have a bunch of immunities, need no upkeep / feeding and are utterly disposable unless intelligent.
They are great for suicide tasks, meatshields and of course the repurposing of local wildlife on the fly.
Especially around Sothoryos, they are a much more economical and easy to manage solution then forge creatures.
They are great for suicide tasks, meatshields and of course the repurposing of local wildlife on the fly.
Especially around Sothoryos, they are a much more economical and easy to manage solution then forge creatures.
- Location
- Germany
For one thing, the extremly deep sea, where pressure and temperature become issues even for normally aquatic creatures. Not a common problem, but they aren't called the Deep Ones for their love of shallow waters I guess.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Yeah, suicide tasks and use as disposable rotten meat shield could be appropriate in certain cases. They are often cheaper on a purely monetary basis, if no other considerations are made. The immunities are nice, too, though Plant creatures have many of those same immunities.
The biggest issue, beyond PR problems (which are admittedly fairly minor if managed well), is actually controlling any Undead we create. There are hard limits on how many Undead any single person can control, and increasing those numbers are fairly difficult, or temporary in the case of spells. There are one or two feats which can help with this, too, but that's a heavy investment to make for a generally unpleasant task. Free willed Undead don't necessarily need to be controlled (in the sense that they're not mindless killing machines, not that it's advisable to leave them to their own devices, because that's how brains and souls get eaten), but they're also almost always malevolent creatures with a desire to destroy the living and/or create more of their own kind, and those few who overcome this pitfall still tend to prey on intelligent living creatures as food or entertainment.
Creatures we grow in the Forges, however, are inherently loyal so long as we don't abuse or mistreat them, which we definitely don't do.
The Others are just complete bullshit in how they can control a virtually limitless number of Undead. A 20th level Dread Necromancer with Viserys level Charisma, access to the General of Undead spell, the Master of Undeath and Undead Leadership feats, and whatever other modifiers available which I can't recall at the moment, don't even come close to being able to control as many Undead as what a single Other has been shown capable of.
Last edited: