If anything, displaying how little regard you hold for social niceties while having POWER OVERWHELMING is more license for people to plot against you.

Like our Myrish Governor, she was more wary of us when she learned we weren't a blustering and swaggering idiot with more power than sense and was perfectly content to initiate what was basically negotiations for the city's surrender having just met us because we were very polite and went through the trouble of assuring everyone that we could play an elaborate long con cleverly enough to fool most people, rather than barging in and demanding a surrender when... we legitimately probably could have, and some of the people present would have at least considered it and the capitalized on the first moment of weakness to appear in their rivals.

Protocol is an important tool, if you navigate it better than the people around you, when you do go in to shank them, it'll be from the front and everyone will admire you for it.
 
There's a difference between what you're saying (politely following protocol rather than bullrushing through) and what I'm saying (our position is so strong that the optics issues aren't really a problem).
It's still uncomfortably similar. Ultimately it is saying that because we're strong we can do whatever we want and damn the consequences, and at the end of the day giving a Blackfyre one of the Targaryen blades (or anyone outside of our direct family, frankly) is a terrible statement for us to make.
Well, in the long term I think the symbolism of "DS is the sword of the King's champion" outweights "DS is a Targ sword".
I would be for it if and only if Aegon becomes known as one of our first and foremost champions, not just as a mechanical solution.
I'd still be very much against it.
 
Well this is a nice discussion to wake up to, all sorts of interesting conversations. I'll cover clarifications to some stuff I noticed might need them in a bit when I'm more awake.
 
Why are we plannung on saving f!ageon. Isn't he the main champion of timat. I vote we annihilate his soul.
Well, he's been lied to and manipulated for literally all his life. I feel bad for him. I'd certainly support giving him a chance. I don't think its too late for the Blackfyres to finally be brought back into the fold under house Targaryen.
 
Well, he's been lied to and manipulated for literally all his life. I feel bad for him. I'd certainly support giving him a chance. I don't think its too late for the Blackfyres to finally be brought back into the fold under house Targaryen.
The dude is a responsible for his actions. He could have not turned into a evil puppet. But that what he chose for a stupid throne. He is not worth it.
 
Well this is a nice discussion to wake up to, all sorts of interesting conversations. I'll cover clarifications to some stuff I noticed might need them in a bit when I'm more awake.

DP, you still have Tiamat named with the last chapter talking with the princess here:

"In exchange for this lore I ask only for accounts of the efforts against enemies such as Tiamat and the like,

As with the latest discussion, why not use Runes for Dark Sister so that she enlarges, flies, and auto-attacks like Alucard's sword familiar as a spell. We have shields that do similar for Waymar and Ser Richard, why not a floating sorcerer's sword?
Besides, one of the most badasses scene on this story was when Viserys slashed Relath on the neck with the sword.

As for Blackfyre, what if FAegon turned it into his Unholy symbol? It's kinda historic, and I feel that it will tickle Tiamat's sensibilities turning it into an icon of the entire reason he and the Golden Company exists. We could have a Soul Edge scenario...

The more I want to turn Young Griff into a Companion somehow...

Before anyone complains, I say look at Rina.
 
Last edited:
Jumping the gun a bit... we don't even know if we can get him out of his divine contract.
 
He's still the focus of the God(dess) Trap we have in plan. Live or die, Young Griff will be on the wildest day of his life.
 
The dude is a responsible for his actions. He could have not turned into a evil puppet. But that what he chose for a stupid throne. He is not worth it.
He's been raised from age 1 to think he's Aegon Targaryen, rightful heir to the iron throne, and raised from childhood by the Golden Company. I'll reserve judgement for when we meet him, but I'd say that he's really not 100% responsible considering the sheer amount of manipulating that he's gone through from birth, and that's not even accounting for the possibility of mental manipulation from Tiamat. Unless I'm missing something from the year or so of posts I haven't caught up on, which I'll fully admit is likely.
 
He's been raised from age 1 to think he's Aegon Targaryen, rightful heir to the iron throne, and raised from childhood by the Golden Company. I'll reserve judgement for when we meet him, but I'd say that he's really not 100% responsible considering the sheer amount of manipulating that he's gone through from birth, and that's not even accounting for the possibility of mental manipulation from Tiamat. Unless I'm missing something from the year or so of posts I haven't caught up on, which I'll fully admit is likely.
That is literally the same as us. We didn't turn evil, why should he get a pass.
 
Why are we plannung on saving f!ageon. Isn't he the main champion of timat. I vote we annihilate his soul.
We promised to get him out to some of the gods contributing to the Well of Souls.

Stealing power from Tiamat through him was always the main idea behind that whole plan, though it's of course not certain if he survives that plan, we can only try our best.
 
We promised to get him out to some of the gods contributing to the Well of Souls.

Stealing power from Tiamat through him was always the main idea behind that whole plan, though it's of course not certain if he survives that plan, we can only try our best.
I don't mind saving him. But only far enough to be tried or either killed or stasised forever.
 
Why are we plannung on saving f!ageon. Isn't he the main champion of timat. I vote we annihilate his soul.
Well, he's been lied to and manipulated for literally all his life. I feel bad for him. I'd certainly support giving him a chance. I don't think its too late for the Blackfyres to finally be brought back into the fold under house Targaryen.
So far, even the IC opinion was "ensuring that Tiamat is hurt comes first - if F!aegon dies in process that's sad but ultimately is less important".

I'm pretty sure even our Coatl-God said something along the lines...
Or was that the Moonsingers' Goddess?

My point being, long as we hurt Tiamat as much as possible, I dont't think we should really care what happens to F!Aegon.
If them grabbing some more power off her on top of all we'll cut off is such a solution - good for them.

If them dying in the process is such.. well, that's that.


What I certainly, most definitely won't stand for - is them trying to hold onto the power we'll cut off from Timmie.
No, not even the smallest piece.
They won't be getting the Rina deal.
Even if they flip perfectly to us.

I have plans for that energy.

For one, that blob can be used to scry down the Mindblanked dragons of hers. Getting us even more power of hers to rip away, since she'd lose the power invested in these Permanent blessings if we get to them.

Also, possibly the best way to empower Syrax/Meraxes once the 15th is dead.

And a great way to jumpstart all the Gods who took part in Tiamat-wrangljng getting a new Domain.

Tldr: fuck F!Aegon if they want those sweet sweet eldritch dragon-powers, otherwise whatever.
 
That is literally the same as us. We didn't turn evil, why should he get a pass.
Because weren't raised by mercenaries with questionable morals. We started off raised in the Red Keep, and after that we had Willem Darry, a knight and fairly good person, to take care of us in our younger years. We also weren't activly manipulated, nor did we have an evil dragon deity pulling our strings and possibly manipulating our minds. The situations aren't really comparable imo.
 
Last edited:
Because weren't raised by mercenaries with questionable morals. We started off raised in the Red Keep, and after that we had Willem Darry, a knight and fairly good person, to take care of us in our younger years. We also weren't activly manipulated, nor did we have an evil dragon deity pulling our strings and possibly manipulating our minds. The situations aren't really comparable imo.
Yes he was manipulated but he is not dumb, the goddes of fucking greed is not in any way a good choice. Like he is actively making bad decisions.
 
It's probably best to leave judging Aegon one way or another until you have more information about him. Viserys has no way to tell anything about what sort of person she is for good or ill right now or the level of compulsion or willingness that may be involved.
 
Yes he was manipulated but he is not dumb, the goddes of fucking greed is not in any way a good choice. Like he is actively making bad decisions.
Again, I could be missing some information here, but if he's been mentally manipulated by Tiamat, how do you even know that he's aware she's the goddess of greed, or even that she's evil? I ultimately don't think its worth making a judgment on this issue until we actually get a chance to talk to him and find how exactly how much of this is his idea, and how much of this was put into his head by somebody else, magically or mundanely. Hell, I reckon it's likely he ends up dying anyway, rendering this entirely academic.
 
Comments to overnight discussion:

If we don't care about immortals controlling the Imperium then why do we care?

Are we all assuming that people will cynically discard their children once they don't "need" an heir anymore? These people will likely still get training, positions, and help starting their own businesses from their parents. People can be stupid about a lot of things but I don't think they'll discard their kids or fail to consider what not inheriting will do to them.

If this isn't about the possibility of immortal hyper elites controlling the economy, then it sounds like we're mostly writing laws to protect the interests of people upset that their parents won't hurry up and die so they can have all the family money. Fuck those people. if we're going to be creating a complicated policing apparatus to manage this topic, why not focus it on those assholes?

The problem is a bit more complex than hurry up and die, these are not post-modern nuclear families where people often move away from their families and only see their extended families on rare occasions. For the medieval noble, magister or even rich merchant prince every day is Thanksgiving which is to say every day you have to deal with various inter-familial relations and of course with the person on top.

These are the kind of interconnected webs of power privilege and wealth of which say the Cosa Nostra was a pale shadow, an imitation of the newly rich (though organized crime). For an in character example of just how such things can go very wrong think of Walder Frey, yes he is and extreme, so extreme that given the pressures of a new society a lot of his control will erode as his kin gain financial stability, but not every Frey is Fair Walda who is gleefully planing to 'stick it to the old man' by walking. The prospect of Eternal Lord Walder would get quite a lot of people at the Twins sharpening knives and buying poisons. Encouraging that kind of social pressure among the political and financial elite would not be good for the imperium.

He said willingly pass, not betray.

The conditions also specifically state loyalty to the rightful King, which Viserys is by Dark Sister's own specifications for a worthy wielder. Viserys gets a pass on that, but I think generally speaking that using Aemon as an example is more to display that the person, if they should so exist, should happen to be a Targaryen, should be loyal to the Crown in no uncertain understandings (not 'common recognition by one camp or another' but actually in fact the rightful King by the laws of succession set down by the previous reigning monarch going all the way back to Aegon the First) and should be exceptionally skilled with the blade.

Viserys would be able to cut through an arbitrary number of lesser warriors with just Dark Sister and no assistance from magic, but it's true that he's not a warrior of the sword by virtue of skill, more unrefined instinct. It's the common "Boxing Lessons for Superman" issue, Viserys has reaction times, resilience and pattern/object/sensory recognition so exact and precise that he blows most warriors straight out of the water, but he doesn't do anything fancy with it, he just does the right thing almost all of the time which is more than what most people can say about their own skills.

So with all of these details, I infer that Dark Sister would allow herself to be passed down to someone who would actually get good use out of her, so long as none of her other sensibilities of who would make a good wielder are given offense, namely that she be used to protect the line of House Targaryen and that her wielder be a supporter of the head of household.

This is accurate. It's also worth noting that while you guys have not been using Dark Sister a lot relative to the number of fights Viserys has gotten into she is used to waiting months or even years between uses. The spirit of the blade is a long way from discontented right now.

Vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 23, 2019 at 3:57 AM, finished with 252 posts and 19 votes.
 
Last edited:
Hollow Prayers

Tenth Day of the Sixth Month 293 AC

He comes haloed in golden flame, and of gold are his arms and armor seemingly wrought, and seven wings white as the clouds above shroud his form from sight. The Septon King they called him, and Blessed he was named, yet now as you look upon what the 'blessings' of his gods have made of the soul that was once Baelor Targaryen you might almost weep for it. A mortal might look upon his burning form and see the glory of the Seven Who Are One and thus be filled with awe and dread. You see a cage, a curse, a weapon in the hands of cruel and distant gods. It will be broken, you vow.

"For all there is hope in the arms of the Seven, repent and you will be forgiven," he calls, voice stern and commanding.

"We did not err and so we will not grovel," your sister replies, unyielding. Forth spring the powers of dreams and nightmares spun, the oldest and truest legacy of your House. So does that radiance dim like a candle in a high wind, and for the first time you see the face of your foe in full. The lines are thin and harsh as though hewn from stone, the eyes bright and feverish but painfully alike to your own as they widen in surprise at the tangle of chains that fly towards him, first to bind him hand and foot. Somehow he weaves between them all untouched... or seems to. Once more your sister speaks a word to turn fate upon itself, and so too a chain coils backwards to tangle one of the avenging spirit's wings.

"Now," Dark Sister's voice is faint and echoing as though from some great distance, but there is no mistaking the cold glee in her words. "He is weak and knows not battle. Make an end to him. Let those who suffered from his folly be avenged!"

Yet even as you gather your strength of dragon fear around you twice over, your foe proves that whatever he may once have been he is now not one to shy away from battle. Straight at you he flies, not caring that Ser Richard's strikes shears through one of his wings in two mighty blows, nor yet that Vee's beasts try to drag him down.

The jeweled scepter falls like a hammer from on high with strength and skill unmatched, that neither scale or cloak of devil's hide can ward you, and for all that it strikes but empty air, for between one moment and the next you slip into the grey world of spirits. Runes of cursed power flare with fel and impotent light, so close to their quarry and yet a world away.

As you return you roar upon the boundaries of the world that the living and the unquiet dead both can hear. "Flee Baelor, your gods have no power here!"

The sound of broken weeping and wailing fills the air as he tries to flee: "Father, I have failed!" he proclaims not in the tongue of angels but that which he knew as a living man: "I am not worthy of this gift! Take it from me!"

Then you speak words of ice, strange upon your lips, and Rina speaks them with you. So the herald of the Seven is still, frozen... silent as a carved effigy in the Great Sept as he crashes onto the ground below.

A crack like thunder rings through the air... It is as though the earth is smote with his fall, heaving and writhing, unable or unwilling to bear his weight.

"He's trying to kill himself!" Dany shouts.

As you land and look upon the form of your foe the tremors stop, the world is still. Whatever final gambit he had tried had turned to dust and ashes. "It's over..." you rumble, almost a whisper as you look fully into the tear-streaked face of the man who was once among the most beloved and by most measures the least skilled king of Westeros.

Frozen thus he seems a strangely chimeric creature, the wings whole and broken both like some feathered beast that is tearing itself from his body, the heroic proportions of a warrior angel almost grotesque besides the thin ascetic's face. A whisper calls in your mind: "I only wanted do the right thing. Please, let me die."

Your heart is not stone but neither are you a fool. "So that you may strike at me and mine again? So that you might help keep a Usurper on the throne and keep men weak and ignorant of the horrors that rise from the waves or sweeps down from the North? That I cannot do."

Though you could see him broken, beaten until he can no longer move or harm anyone, until you can deal with him in peace, but much dignity you can spare a man ill-used by those he has placed ultimate trust in. By will and wishcraft, stretched to the very limits of your power, you see him bound in a enchanted bottle.

The thing is at first heavy even to a dragon's claw with the weight of far more common matter, but it grows lighted with every passing moment, the Seven answering Baelor's last fevered prayer.

What do you do?

[] Sacrifice Baelor to the Old Gods and let them claim as much of his power as they can

[] Let the process run its course, whatever the Seven recover will not be the full measure of what they invested, still less the efforts their mortal servants must have made to bring forth such a champion

[] Write in


OOC: Well that worked about as well as it could have. I had Viserys used the heightened limited wish both because it is faster and because he is not one to cause pain unnecessarily even to his enemies, not to mention the fact that he pities Baelor for his 'enslavement' by the Seven.
I feel kinda bad for Baelor. He was pretty crazy, but he sincerely wanted to do good. He didn't deserve to be used by the Seven like that. He was a bad king, but that doesn't mean he was a bad person. Idiots didn't even use him effectively, so it was all for nothing. RIP Baelor. Stay dead this time.
 
Thoughts on an Advanced Gigantean Sorcerer Faerie Dragon? Faerie Dragons inherently cast like 3rd level sorcerers, so that should benefit their sorcerer scaling, I believe. CR 12, so there's room for one or two more templates in there.

Another thing: we gained limited access to the telepathic template by piggybacking off the natural abilities of pseudodragons when creating the Mind Dragons. 1: can we use the template on normal pseudodragons, and 2: would that be useful for us?

Also, these templates:

It's a similar concept to Quickling Creature (when did we get that?), but different in execution. The fact that it doesn't age the subject at 4x speed makes it suitable for sapient beings and big investments, as opposed to disposable attack animals.


An even cheaper and simpler speed template: you go ten feet farther, and you get the effects of blur when you move farther than ten feet.


Create your own Griffons, Owlbears, and other anatomical oddities. Averages the stats and abilities of two creatures together. An unfortunate amount of randomness, as this is meant to represent more haphazard work than Valyrian mass-production fleshforging, but if we could get some degree of control over it, this could be interesting.

A third thing: I've been thinking about using Giant Moray Eels or Gulper Eels as the basis for an aquatic equivalent to the Dragonbeasts: a Colossal physical brute killer. The Giant Moray has a super double bite, while the gulper can just straight up swallow people whole.


Yeah, Faerie Dragons could work well, though Adding Gigantean, Sorcerer Creature, and Advanced would push them to CR 14. I would actually be tempted to outright consider it CR 15 without trying to add another template to max it out. The built-in Sorcerer casting from a Faerie Dragon would synergize so well with the Sorcerer Creature template that it makes sense to consider it a +4 rather than +3 CR increase.

I don't think we should try to slap the Telepathic Creature template on Pseudodragons. They only have 2 HD, but would gain access to some pretty hefty SLAs, including Mind Blank. Even on the Mind Dragons, I built them so that the full abilities of the template don't become available until they are adults, with Mind Blank being the last SLA they can use.

Most Alchemical templates are kinda lackluster, but I wouldn't complain about having access to them, if only for the sake of completion and a full toolbox. I don't know when/where we got the Quickling template, now that you mention that. I don't think we actually have it, despite ordering some from the Forge earlier this month. That could be an issue, since we ordered 30 Quickling Vinespawn. @DragonParadox?

We almost grew some enhanced Eel servitor creatures, but ended up going in a different direction. We're actually pretty well set for filling the underwater brute role.

Here's the relevant Forge orders for the month;
60 Advanced Plant-Imbued Gigantean Manta Ray (CR 6, 12 HD)
100 Advanced Plant-Imbued Orca (CR 8, 9 HD)
20 Advanced Plant-Imbued Druid Creature Orca (CR 10, 9 HD)

Grand Dragon Turtle (CR 15) x9
Mighty Mind Dragons (CR 15) x4
Seawyrm (CR 15) x3
Shadebreacher Sperm Whale (CR 12) x6

Very minor nitpick, but if you already specify magical compulsion, add mundane too.
Basically the full "informed consent" thing.
Updating the language a bit, just to be thorough.
@Goldfish
Another point on inheritance laws.
Who is the recognised heir?
So far, if I understand correctly, an heir is only a child born in marriage.
People can recognise their bastards, for example Edric Storm was officially recognised as Robert's child, but that doesn't give them any legal rights to inherit.

Now, that fatherhood can be easily checked with magical means w might want to take a look at that ruling again?
Another aspect is adoption law. So far it requires the KIng's personal agreement for nobility, while other people can, as far as I can tell, adopt normally and have it count legally. Do we want to keep that as it is?
I'd previously removed any mention of inheritance from my current preliminary plan, but I've added this in for now.

-[] Clarification of Inheritance:
--[] An individual's children, both those legitimately born within the bounds of a marriage contract and those illegitimately born outside of such a contract, but who were later officially recognized, are considered their legal heirs. This ruling extends to any children one may have legally adopted into their family, but who do not share significant ties of blood relation.

Since the nobility receive special privileges and some degree of legal protection in certain instances, I don't think they should be able to adopt people into their families without royal consent.
 
Back
Top