Maybe we could keep the idea that partial inheritance is obligatory once you Reincarnate, but remove the fine?
Maybe only with the caveat that if you remove them as a dependent from your Household, rather than them voluntarily leaving, they are obligated towards a partial inheritance?

Fuck, but they could abuse this too by strong-arming them. Not a great fix.
 
We're also going to need to deal with the fact that we're in a medieval society, and that things like income tax don't really exist for nobility. I hadn't really thought about it, but putting the words inheritance and tax in the same sentence for nobles is going to sound like we've declared war on their social class.

... I'm not exactly sure how to frame this in a way that won't freak them out.


It's explicitly a pseudodeity by design, so no, it shouldn't qualify.

It's less a god and more a glorified power source/safe haven.
Isn't it effectively a god we lobotomize by making its mindlessness part of the story that defines it? Seems like it'd be the same as a god to me.

Even if it isn't, my point on the scale of operation still stands. We are irritating to hell for a number of reasons, but something like this would be low on the list because the number of souls lost is too small for most of management to notice.

We could accomplish the same thing without breaking any rules by getting a god of each alignment and piping souls right to their divine realms. I guess we could go for that for some added security, but it seems redundant at this scale.
 
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I'm gonna reiterate that I am completely opposed to wealth caps, even a "soft-cap" is rubbing me the wrong way, especially when we continue to only judge what a soft-cap should be against something as nebulous as "Sealord Rich". That kind of ambiguity is unacceptable when we're dictating legal policy for the Imperium.

If we're going to introduce an income tax of some sort, it needs to have reasonable brackets or tiers, with well defined monetary earning plateaus for each. Nothing says those values cannot be adjusted in the future, but there needs to be something. I don't ask for overly complex, but I cannot abide "Sealord Rich" or an equally silly equivalent.

Example Seven Tier Annual Income Tax Rate:
<100 IM = 1%
101 to 500 IM = 5%
501 to 1000 IM = 10%
1,001 to 10,000 IM = 20%
100,000 to 1,000,000 IM = 40%
1,000,001 to 10,000,000 IM = 80%
10,000,000+ IM = 90%
 
Inheritance taxes existed in the IRL middle ages. Yes, even in feudal Europe for some nobility.

Note that one type of progressive tax is one that taxes something the rich use more than the poor. Historically, glass windows were an example of this.
We could tax dividends, for example.
Or salaried above a certain amount :)
 
I'm gonna reiterate that I am completely opposed to wealth caps, even a "soft-cap" is rubbing me the wrong way, especially when we continue to only judge what a soft-cap should be against something as nebulous as "Sealord Rich". That kind of ambiguity is unacceptable when we're dictating legal policy for the Imperium.

If we're going to introduce an income tax of some sort, it needs to have reasonable brackets or tiers, with well defined monetary earning plateaus for each. Nothing says those values cannot be adjusted in the future, but there needs to be something. I don't ask for overly complex, but I cannot abide "Sealord Rich" or an equally silly equivalent.

Example Seven Tier Annual Income Tax Rate:
<100 IM = 1%
101 to 500 IM = 5%
501 to 1000 IM = 10%
1,001 to 10,000 IM = 20%
100,000 to 1,000,000 IM = 40%
1,000,001 to 10,000,000 IM = 80%
10,000,000+ IM = 90%
Would probably add some zeroes, but I understand the underlying point.
 
I'm gonna reiterate that I am completely opposed to wealth caps, even a "soft-cap" is rubbing me the wrong way, especially when we continue to only judge what a soft-cap should be against something as nebulous as "Sealord Rich". That kind of ambiguity is unacceptable when we're dictating legal policy for the Imperium.

If we're going to introduce an income tax of some sort, it needs to have reasonable brackets or tiers, with well defined monetary earning plateaus for each. Nothing says those values cannot be adjusted in the future, but there needs to be something. I don't ask for overly complex, but I cannot abide "Sealord Rich" or an equally silly equivalent.

Example Seven Tier Annual Income Tax Rate:
<100 IM = 1%
101 to 500 IM = 5%
501 to 1000 IM = 10%
1,001 to 10,000 IM = 20%
100,000 to 1,000,000 IM = 40%
1,000,001 to 10,000,000 IM = 80%
10,000,000+ IM = 90%
So you entirely agree with Duesal and I, but you want better defined numbers?
Fine. I was going to abstract that away, but do as you wish. I am too sleepy to math it out, will check in 10 hours.
 
I'm gonna reiterate that I am completely opposed to wealth caps, even a "soft-cap" is rubbing me the wrong way, especially when we continue to only judge what a soft-cap should be against something as nebulous as "Sealord Rich". That kind of ambiguity is unacceptable when we're dictating legal policy for the Imperium.

If we're going to introduce an income tax of some sort, it needs to have reasonable brackets or tiers, with well defined monetary earning plateaus for each. Nothing says those values cannot be adjusted in the future, but there needs to be something. I don't ask for overly complex, but I cannot abide "Sealord Rich" or an equally silly equivalent.

Example Seven Tier Annual Income Tax Rate:
<100 IM = 1%
101 to 500 IM = 5%
501 to 1000 IM = 10%
1,001 to 10,000 IM = 20%
100,000 to 1,000,000 IM = 40%
1,000,001 to 10,000,000 IM = 80%
10,000,000+ IM = 90%
Putting an upper limit like that feels sort of weird to me in some ways as well, but it effectively does the same thing as the other option without slapping people in the face with how much they're being taxed.

Running with "make as much as you want, but in 60 years we're taking 80% of it" will make people feel the loss more keenly and increase resentment for a tax scheme that will already be wildly unpopular. Using a simple tax system they can get used to will make it less disruptive to their lifestyles and therefore easier to accept. I do agree we need to be more specific though.
 
Isn't it effectively a god we lobotomize by making its mindlessness part of the story that defines it? Seems like it'd be the same as a god to me.
Not really.

Cases in Point:
Ymeri. Isn't technically a Deity - albeit has a power of lower-tier one, isn't bound by Divine constraints of "worship = change" (much).

Old Gods. Are a Deity made up of thousands of angry old men, so incoherent their rage transcends aeons, death, and Planes themselves [:V].
Yet, if any are separated somehow from green Dream, those won't be a Deity anymore.

Green Dream. Isn't technically a Divine Realm in it's original function - but with Old Gods growing, reached similar function.


Imperial Deity would be us taking a basic concept of a Green Dream - an artificial afterlife - and slapping it onto our Empire and PoB in general.

Then, withing the Dream we coalesce a Divine-like battery, narratively and metaphysically bound to the entirety of the Empire, the concept we want it to embody, and the Gods we approve of - gaining protection and giving off constant growth for them.

With time, the battery grows - the Empire gets better metaphysical protection from things fucking with people's souls; the Gods get more energy; We get a larger pool of energy to draw from in case we need to do something stupidly energy-expensive (like closing the hole in Hellvens).

But, technically, that thing is still not a God.
Rather, a Landwarden to our "Fleshforge" of a soul-realm, at best.


I think Duesal is right about the fucked-up realms.
You severely underestimate the importance of Plane of Balance for them -

Of course, we can't know exactly how much without knowing whether the setting operates within the Crystal Spheres of dnd/Pathfinder, or regular cosmos -

But it had been pretty established so far, that everyone craves PoB for that exact reason.
Asmodeus was willing to halp Valyrians - just to get himself a LE Empire, who'd be sending souls straight to Hells.

We should be really careful about how we do things with Imperial Dream.
Best case, we just angry lots of Evil Gods barely present on PoB.
Worst case, we break flow of soulc and everyone is our enemy.
 
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Not really.

Cases in Point:
Ymeri. Isn't technically a Deity - albeit has a power of lower-tier one, isn't bound by Divine constraints of "worship = change" (much).

Old Gods. Are a Deity made up of thousands of angry old men, so incoherent their rage transcends aeons, death, and Planes themselves [:V].
Yet, if any are separated somehow from green Dream, those won't be a Deity anymore.

Green Dream. Isn't technically a Divine Realm in it's original function - but with Old Gods growing, reached similar function.


Imperial Deity would be us taking a basic concept of a Green Dream - an artificial afterlife - and slapping it onto our Empire and PoB in general.

Then, withing the Dream we coalesce a Divine-like battery, narratively and metaphysically bound to the entirety of the Empire, the concept we want it to embody, and the Gods we approve of - gaining protection and giving off constant growth for them.

With time, the battery grows - the Empire gets better metaphysical protection from things fucking with people's souls; the Gods get more energy; We get a larger pool of energy to draw from in case we need to do something stupidly energy-expensive (like closing the hole in Hellvens).

But, technically, that thing is still not a God.
Rather, a Landwarden to our "Fleshforge" of a soul-realm, at best.


I think Duesal is right about the fucked-up realms.
You severely underestimate the importance of Plane of Balance for them -

Of course, we can't know exactly how much without knowing whether the setting operates within the Crystal Spheres of dnd/Pathfinder, or regular cosmos -

But it had been pretty established so far, that everyone craves PoB for that exact reason.
Asmodeus was willing to halp Valyrians - just to get himself a LE Empire, who'd be sending souls straight to Hells.

We should be really careful about how we do things with Imperial Dream.
Best case, we just angry lots of Evil Gods barely present on PoB.
Worst case, we break flow of soulc and everyone is our enemy.
Fair enough on what it actually qualifies as. How do you guys feel about finding something CN to add to the pantheon so that we can cover worshipers of all alignments?

I honestly don't think we have to worry shout the flow of souls from our current scope. Don't we sort of have confirmation that the plane of balance is infinite, and has other planets on it? There is no way that one planet is capable of supporting the soul ecosystem as it stands, we're too small. There must be other populated planets in the PoB.

We might get some unkind attention, but not in excess of what we're already getting for stopping active incursions. Even at our largest we'd be the soul equivalent of a mom and pop grocery store; we wouldn't have the leverage to crash the global economy even if we wanted to.
 
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I'm not attached to any of the figures I used there. They were just an example.

What kind of brackets would you see as reasonable, and what about the tax rates?
I'm honestly not sure what's reasonable here... I want people to reasonably be able to engage in the magic item economy without being PCs operating on the fringe, because its key to innovation in various industries and also personal comfort. Because the cost of items is weighted against a mostly static model that is hard to reduce without losing out on some features, and all of the other mundane overhead associated with running a business, the tax model either generally assumes smaller businesses and government controlled industries, or large businesses and intermittent trust busting efforts.

There is a hidden cost from preventing the latter from being a concern, just as there is a cost to Lucan killing mages who won't prostrate themselves before the Father's judgement regarding the user of their magic.

The key note there is that you don't need to be a mega billionaire to be a goal extant to inspiring others toward innovation, not if government authority is already highly centralized and most institutions well-funded (this assumes that if there is a niche need, innovators will try to break into the market and economic and trade policies will be largely lenient towards them, and if there is a dire need for innovations that are strategic the Government can fund its research).
 
What if we set the tax level against an index of market sizes? Something like earning some small fraction of a percent of the average revenue of a set of industries?

If our goal isn't to stop people from experiencing the rewards of their success, but instead to mitigate their ability to race to the top and slam the door behind them, then we should try to make it so it kicks in relative to when you start reaching a problematic size. Relying on it as a primary revenue service is where we could start getting in trouble.

If we can avoid that, we can avoid the temptation to decide how much of their own money people really "need" and finding things to do with the cash once we've already taken it.
 
Isn't it effectively a god we lobotomize by making its mindlessness part of the story that defines it? Seems like it'd be the same as a god to me.
We could fiddle with the description all we want, but ultimately it is conceived as a Pseudodeity and not an actual god. It's basically a divine battery for the actual Imperial Gods and doubles as an afterlife.
Even if it isn't, my point on the scale of operation still stands. We are irritating to hell for a number of reasons, but something like this would be low on the list because the number of souls lost is too small for most of management to notice.

We could accomplish the same thing without breaking any rules by getting a god of each alignment and piping souls right to their divine realms. I guess we could go for that for some added security, but it seems redundant at this scale.
This seems like a recipe for disaster for me. We shouldn't be planning the future of our realm on a gamble of either not being important enough to warrant malicious attention or being powerful enough that it wouldn't matter. We're always going to be somewhere in the middle and have to be appropriately paranoid or it will bite us in the ass.
 
What if we set the tax level against an index of market sizes? Something like earning some small fraction of a percent of the average revenue of a set of industries?

If our goal isn't to stop people from experiencing the rewards of their success, but instead to mitigate their ability to race to the top and slam the door behind them, then we should try to make it so it kicks in relative to when you start reaching a problematic size. Relying on it as a primary revenue service is where we could start getting in trouble.

If we can avoid that, we can avoid the temptation to decide how much of their own money people really "need" and finding things to do with the cash once we've already taken it.
So put a hard cap on how much a CEO can pay themselves based on the company's total income?

Or what if we base it on how much the company pays in salary to others?

Hell is intrinsically opportunistic, they will seek any advantage over us so long as it exists.
Pride cometh before the fall and all that.
 
So put a hard cap on how much a CEO can pay themselves based on the company's total income?

Or what if we base it on how much the company pays in salary to others?


Pride cometh before the fall and all that.
I was thinking more on the individual end; if we do it based on a particular source of income it'll just encourage people to reach for another (like say stock dividends). Then we'd need to make another scale and double the work we have to do.

if we did it based on net worth relative to a standard set by current economic conditions we could get a rough approximation of what qualifies as too much wealth.

it wouldn't always be perfectly accurate, but ideally it'd sort of be like cutting someone off at a bar. You don't specify that everyone gets exactly two drinks, but you do stop serving someone who has clearly had too much. The point isn't to fund the government in this case since we are clearly managing that just fine, the point is to curb individual economic influence.



Just to pick some numbers, we could say that no one should own substantially more than half a percent of the gdp(or some market index if we think that'll be more accurate) of either the Imperium, or perhaps the region they live in, and then start a progressive tax scheme at say half that value that slowly increases until it takes everything above the cutoff. Those numbers are arbitrary, but we can pick better ones or just abstract it away to the job of the Imperial Revenue Service. :V

Strong anti trust laws would need to be in place to catch things like focusing all of one's net worth into a critical industry to gain disproportionate political or military influence, but we'd need those anyway.

Thoughts on the viability of such an approach? I'm not an economist, so I'm not exactly clear on all the failure modes for this kind of system. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that every theory on taxation that sounds decent to a non expert has already been tried and horribly failed somewhere on the planet at least once.
 
I was thinking more on the individual end; if we do it based on a particular source of income it'll just encourage people to reach for another (like say stock dividends). Then we'd need to make another scale and double the work we have to do.

if we did it based on net worth relative to a standard set by current economic conditions we could get a rough approximation of what qualifies as too much wealth.

it wouldn't always be perfectly accurate, but ideally it'd sort of be like cutting someone off at a bar. You don't specify that everyone gets exactly two drinks, but you do stop serving someone who has clearly had too much. The point isn't to fund the government in this case since we are clearly managing that just fine, the point is to curb individual economic influence.



Just to pick some numbers, we could say that no one should own substantially more than half a percent of the gdp(or some market index if we think that'll be more accurate) of either the Imperium, or perhaps the region they live in, and then start a progressive tax scheme at say half that value that slowly increases until it takes everything above the cutoff. Those numbers are arbitrary, but we can pick better ones or just abstract it away to the job of the Imperial Revenue Service. :V

Strong anti trust laws would need to be in place to catch things like focusing all of one's net worth into a critical industry to gain disproportionate political or military influence, but we'd need those anyway.

Thoughts on the viability of such an approach? I'm not an economist, so I'm not exactly clear on all the failure modes for this kind of system. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that every theory on taxation that sounds decent to a non expert has already been tried and horribly failed somewhere on the planet at least once.
It's easy to arrogantly assume that because we know the system is inherently corruptible, the only reason a "better system" has yet to be implemented is because they won't let it, but yeah, I sincerely doubt our ability to write policy is commiserate to the challenge presented by these new circumstances.

Abstraction is necessary in part at least to fill in for the author's (or our) inability to sufficiently convey expert knowledge, and one could point out that if it hasn't been implemented and then proven with sufficient data to actually achieve what's being suggested, it's not really accurate knowledge either, just supposition based off a set of inferences at best.
 
It's easy to arrogantly assume that because we know the system is inherently corruptible, the only reason a "better system" has yet to be implemented is because they won't let it, but yeah, I sincerely doubt our ability to write policy is commiserate to the challenge presented by these new circumstances.

Abstraction is necessary in part at least to fill in for the author's (or our) inability to sufficiently convey expert knowledge, and one could point out that if it hasn't been implemented and then proven with sufficient data to actually achieve what's being suggested, it's not really accurate knowledge either, just supposition based off a set of inferences at best.
Good point. I was thinking more in terms of finding any obvious failure points that made the concept unsound, like driving people to a particular form of fraud or something.

I suppose in this case some better questions are: does it seem reasonable that magical accountants could make an estimation on what constitutes too much wealth against a marketplace, does putting a cap there instead of at some other arbitrary point actually help, and if so does it help enough to be worth the effort?

Taken in terms of what needs abstracted to make sense, this approach has too many critical moving parts that need handwaved.

Probably best to just stick with a regular progressive tax with a stupidly high minimum bar instead of trying to get tricky with a self adjusting one.
 
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