Naturally grown trees all villages can have, but those take decades to grow, and I don't think they have any magical effects on them, which mean a naturally grown tree isn't a healing tree, as natural growth only produce tier 0 trees, tiered trees need blood sacrifice.

Is this true? I mean it doesnt really matter because if thing go get desperate enough for a real tree we would probably be called for help anyway.
Though I agree we should have a bunch of tier 0 Weirwood grown though the empire, the sooner they're planted the better, we should make some sacrifices to have the old gods produce enough seeds to plant a Weirwood in every village, and then assign some Leshies to go from village to village, planting Weirwood seeds, and teaching the inhabitants how to not accidentally kill a young Weirwood.

And it gives Bloodraven more eyes in the region...so to speak. Plus I am curious about something now.

@DragonParadox say we were to drop a huge sacrifice in a given tree would the Old Gods be capable of moving any excess energy to other unactivated/baby trees to expedite their growth and get them effects? Like if we were to dump a massive sacrifice on a weir wood in Braavos could they grow baby trees in the Disputed Lands and give them tier 1 effects?
 
I don't know what Baelon paid for his Glass Golem, but it was heavily implied that he exchanged major favors to even make it possible. We pay 9867 IM each, which is a 50% markup on the normal 6,600 purchase cost for a traditionally crafted Glass Golem (3300 IM to craft in that manner). The Glassmakers Guild uses special rituals to craft their Golems, though, which have different costs and requirements (namely much lower level casters), so it's safe to assume we're being charged regular markup instead of an extra +50%, which means their crafting price is probably 4933.5 IM. Either way, whether Baelon got a discount for his favors or merely the opportunity to buy, he only paid between 5000 and 10,000 IM. Huge sums of money for a commoner, of course, but nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Once we took their lore and rituals from them we are buying the golums at crafting price now.
 
"Half into tool to help rebuild Hardhome, half into weapons to defend against men who would take what we're building, or worse things out in the hills and vales. You know what I mean right?" He nods his head northward to the window that shows a cloudless summer day over Sorcerer's Deep, but his meaning is clear.
The more I see this the more I want to scream. @DragonParadox, a huge reason Mance deserted and decided to become King Beyond the Wall was because he knew the Others were coming and that everyone who wasn't south of the Wall was just a still-breathing corpse. Why on earth is there any kind of "oh I'll just dig my heels in here in these ruins" sentiment from him? One of the first things he should have asked was what arrangements could be made to get his people south. He should be far more terrified of the Others than we are.
 
The more I see this the more I want to scream. @DragonParadox, a huge reason Mance deserted and decided to become King Beyond the Wall was because he knew the Others were coming and that everyone who wasn't south of the Wall was just a still-breathing corpse. Why on earth is there any kind of "oh I'll just dig my heels in here in these ruins" sentiment from him? One of the first things he should have asked was what arrangements could be made to get his people south. He should be far more terrified of the Others than we are.
Because the other half of the reason is being stifled by oaths and getting agency taken away from him. Granted having agency as a thing is unlikely in an order like the Watch, and he doesn't really know what the South is truly like beyond a few visits and a biased perspective against the feudal hierarchy (not that it's really sunshine and rainbows at all).

If he knew what we allowed our own citizens to do and work towards his opinion might change, but even that is on a totally different paradigm than what going south as "kneelers" would normally entail. Lords can and will abuse their rights and they can pretty much order someone who gets a little too "uppity" summarily executed. Likely Mance just sees it as impossible to get even the most tame Free Folk to behave in a manner that won't just end with them killed by southron swords, which led to his inevitable plan of "unite the Free Folk and exploit my knowledge of the Wall to try to get them past it" which even in the most optimistic scenarios of canon wasn't a very good plan.

Mance is definitely a prideful character, but also a clever one, tell him there are actually good options, not just "the best of a bunch of bad options" and he will bargain for all his worth to get even more.
 
Because the other half of the reason is being stifled by oaths and getting agency taken away from him. Granted having agency as a thing is unlikely in an order like the Watch, and he doesn't really know what the South is truly like beyond a few visits and a biased perspective against the feudal hierarchy (not that it's really sunshine and rainbows at all).

If he knew what we allowed our own citizens to do and work towards his opinion might change, but even that is on a totally different paradigm than what going south as "kneelers" would normally entail. Lords can and will abuse their rights and they can pretty much order someone who gets a little too "uppity" summarily executed. Likely Mance just sees it as impossible to get even the most tame Free Folk to behave in a manner that won't just end with them killed by southron swords, which led to his inevitable plan of "unite the Free Folk and exploit my knowledge of the Wall to try to get them past it" which even in the most optimistic scenarios of canon wasn't a very good plan.

Mance is definitely a prideful character, but also a clever one, tell him there are actually good options, not just "the best of a bunch of bad options" and he will bargain for all his worth to get even more.
That argument rings hollow to me. Yes, to go south of the Wall is to sacrifice his agency, but he's literally staring death itself in the face. The entire point of becoming King Beyond the Wall and turning his back on his brothers in the Night's Watch was to band the people together for survival. And something tells me that if we don't bring it up now, Mance will actually try to rebuild Hardhome for some moronic last stand. This doesn't read as a character cleverly trying to set up a bargain, it reads as him casually explaining his plans.

He's supposed to be far smarter than this.
 
That argument rings hollow to me. Yes, to go south of the Wall is to sacrifice his agency, but he's literally staring death itself in the face. The entire point of becoming King Beyond the Wall and turning his back on his brothers in the Night's Watch was to band the people together for survival. And something tells me that if we don't bring it up now, Mance will actually try to rebuild Hardhome for some moronic last stand. This doesn't read as a character cleverly trying to set up a bargain, it reads as him casually explaining his plans.

He's supposed to be far smarter than this.
He may very well still intend to take his people south of the Wall, but having a strong settlement in the meantime, one to help attract Wildling to his cause, where they can gather their strength, grow their numbers, and train for war, would make their attempt to go south much more likely to succeed.
 
He may very well still intend to take his people south of the Wall, but having a strong settlement in the meantime, one to help attract Wildling to his cause, where they can gather their strength, grow their numbers, and train for war, would make their attempt to go south much more likely to succeed.
That would be a good plan, and it should have been phrased like that if this is in fact the case.

Bottomline, Mance is a Wildling King, he and his people are stuck Beyond the Wall, and he knows that they're fucked if it stays that way. He doesn't have time or patience for bullshit.

It's not often Mance would ever meet a king south of the Wall who wasn't inclined to murder him just for being a Wildling and a deserter of the Watch, much less a king who's very close allies with the Night's Watch to the point where we could influence their policy if we wanted to. This is a pretty golden opportunity on his end, and by all rights one of the first things he should have been asking about was arrangements to evacuate his people.
I purpose after we shift the wildlings south, we have mance stand trial for desertion.
Ironically the Others will very likely murder him well before the thread gets a chance to vote.
 
That would be a good plan, and it should have been phrased like that if this is in fact the case.

Bottomline, Mance is a Wildling King, he and his people are stuck Beyond the Wall, and he knows that they're fucked if it stays that way. He doesn't have time or patience for bullshit.

It's not often Mance would ever meet a king south of the Wall who wasn't inclined to murder him just for being a Wildling and a deserter of the Watch, much less a king who's very close allies with the Night's Watch to the point where we could influence their policy if we wanted to. This is a pretty golden opportunity on his end, and by all rights one of the first things he should have been asking about was arrangements to evacuate his people.

Ironically the Others will very likely murder him well before the thread gets a chance to vote.
Mance is out of his depth here, and not by a tiny margin. I assume his opening request was merely an initial thrust at whatever he hoped to actually gain. He just doesn't realize the scale on which we are operating, or what we really plan for Westeros.
 
@DragonParadox say we were to drop a huge sacrifice in a given tree would the Old Gods be capable of moving any excess energy to other unactivated/baby trees to expedite their growth and get them effects? Like if we were to dump a massive sacrifice on a weir wood in Braavos could they grow baby trees in the Disputed Lands and give them tier 1 effects?

Yes they would be able

The more I see this the more I want to scream. @DragonParadox, a huge reason Mance deserted and decided to become King Beyond the Wall was because he knew the Others were coming and that everyone who wasn't south of the Wall was just a still-breathing corpse. Why on earth is there any kind of "oh I'll just dig my heels in here in these ruins" sentiment from him? One of the first things he should have asked was what arrangements could be made to get his people south. He should be far more terrified of the Others than we are.

This is and opening negotiation position, probably best not to read too much into it
 
Interlude DCLXV: In Baleful Light Unveiled
In Baleful Light Unveiled

Seventeenth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

The Coils, Beneath City of Brass

Too many spices for just one pot,
the saying he first heard in Lys two years ago went through Maelor's head. It was one thing to have your master captured and needing to race for help, common enough other than the loyal slave. Running to a shop your master had gone into once in all his days made a stranger tale, but maybe he'd guessed just what sort of power lurked in the middling shop that sold cheap magic and took all you could sell. The shapeshifting spiders, the maybe dead sister, these didn't fit, but not in a way that spelled trap, it mostly spelled gibberish.

At least we won't have to wait long for more answers, the young sorcerer thought. The echoes were getting closer, and with them the all too familiar reek of charred flesh. He briefly considered if he should just ask the others to let whatever was coming jaw and jabber at them. Viserys had gotten a lot of answers that way. Then again, Viserys was a bloody dragon and he usually had four or five companions around him when he made those sorts of decisions. You could trust a fury to fight for her oaths and a sellsword for his coin, but he was far less sure on the girl.

Light flashed again, this time in front of them not above, blazing gold and other colors somehow harder and sharper, painful for the eye to behold and the mind to contemplate, and in that light floated something that may have once been human but somehow gnawed around the edges of its being into new shapes. Skin ashen grey, oily and lustrous hair golden-white that almost seemed a part of the light, eyes open and staring into some even brighter radiance, mouth opened into a silent scream as a four fingered claw pointed at Ashia in condemnation: "You made me this, you ran from the Calling and so it took and took from me! Look At me! Look at what I had become!"


At the back of Maelor's head a small and not very helpful voice noted that the thing was not speaking any of the languages he knew, but something else entirely yet the impossible light made them understandable, for under its gaze nothing could be hidden, no secrets could dwell.

As the dreadful light spilled out towards them like water from a broken dam Maelor pulled at the whispering darkness of his soul to smother it. It was not enough.

Bronn ducked out of the way, his sword seeming to reflect some of the hateful light as he lunged at the thing, dealing it three great cuts, one under the arm, the second to the ribs and the third to the neck, each of which should have split the withered thing in twine, but the radiance around it seemed to catch and slow the blows until only shallow cuts showed upon its grey skin. Yet Sarel was not deterred, black feathered arrows sang through the air, each seeking to strike one of the wounds.

Though only two of three found their mark the thing clearly felt them. A little more fire and...

"I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to," Ashia was repeating under her breath in place of spells.

Maelor's fist clenched around the ornate scepter in anger. Be sorry when it isn't trying to kill us. Rage mingled well with the power of the Pit and from their joining a lash of shadow was born, tearing at the curtain of light.

The light seemed to boil out from its wounds this time, seeking not just to blind but scorch. Sarell escapes the first but not the second, a third of her wing is burned to the bone though she could endure the very flames of hell. "Begone ye spirit of an unclean House!" the light-begotten screamed as it tried to dart away further down the tunnel.

Alas for it that Bronn was waiting, once, twice his sword connected, then Sarell's blade of adamantine flashed into her hand, bow clattering to the floor. Neck hanging by a shred the light began to boil over again. Shadows rolled over it and at last it was broken to the ground.

Ashia was crying, still speaking that strange tongue, though with the poisoned light extinguished Maelor could no longer understand it.

"When you said your master was trading with 'those under the sky', you did not mean the skies of flame, did you?" Maelor asked softly, remembering the talisman Silas had sold him. "You meant skies of blue."

The girl nodded. "Kazahn'zi. Icshe'k... er Mossovy." A moment later she added. "There's a passage, a gate near where master and I were ambushed."

"There's an open gate to the world under the sun, here?" Maelor asked slowly, his stomach seeming to fall clear through the soles of his feet at the thought of efreeti spilling into the world.

"No, only opens twice a year for three days, only for someone like me... like my sister was," she replied.

"And we are in the middle of those three days," Sarell's words were not a question, but the girl nodded anyway.

OOC: Bronn's luck re-rolls continue to be their own sort of magic in combat and things clear up a little as to why everyone was down here.
 
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The girl nodded. "Kazahn'zi. Icshe'k... er Mossovy." A moment later she added. "There's a passage, a gate near where master and I were ambushed."
Oh no... Well at least that gate isn't as indiscriminate as it could be, but we'll definitely need to check Mossovy at some point. There are a lot of eerie Witcher themes there.
 
Since I rushed and mischaracterized Mance a bit I added the following to the last update. It does not change anything but makes explicit what was merely implicit before

"You want to rebuilt, now?" you ask surprised at the notion all the more so for his last implication.

"I want to get the Free Folk off the killing fields before Winter comes, but I would have us leave with more than the clothes on our backs beggars in the southern realms. Trade is a fair path to that as you proved yourself."
 
Is this true? I mean it doesnt really matter because if thing go get desperate enough for a real tree we would probably be called for help anyway.


And it gives Bloodraven more eyes in the region...so to speak. Plus I am curious about something now.
I'm 90% sure, after all not a single one of the wild Weirwoods have magical effects on them, having an already grown tier 0 grown, might decrease the price compared to making a tiered Weirwood from a seed, but I don't think a Weirwood will have any magic except the Hallow effect without sacrifices.
@DragonParadox say we were to drop a huge sacrifice in a given tree would the Old Gods be capable of moving any excess energy to other unactivated/baby trees to expedite their growth and get them effects? Like if we were to dump a massive sacrifice on a weir wood in Braavos could they grow baby trees in the Disputed Lands and give them tier 1 effects?
That might work, but it would probably be less efficient, than doing it at the Weirwoods we are enhancing, and sacrifices are our bottleneck for making tiered Weirwood not time for the rituals, I think we can grow a Leshy capable of doing the ritual if we want, so sacrificing sacrifice efficiency to speed though the rituals, don't seem at all a good idea.
 
I'm not entirely sure, either Mossovy or their neighbor Nefer hired them. But they were definitly in that Area.
I think it was Nefer, now that I think about it.

Or they had problems in that general area because a cabal of mages down there is massively anti-dragon -- anti all dragons, be they True Dragons or Valyrian Dragonlords.
 
Oh no... Well at least that gate isn't as indiscriminate as it could be, but we'll definitely need to check Mossovy at some point. There are a lot of eerie Witcher themes there.
On the other hand, now we know about this opening, we wont be able to use it this year, but if we can keep it hidden, we could use it next year, to sow a lot of chaos in the city of Brass, I'm thinking if we can hide it, next time it open, we throw a few hundred or more non-neutered Fungal creatures though it, thereby unleashing a Fungal zombie apocalypse on the City of Brass, sure they will eventually deal with it, but no city like suffering a infectious zombie apocalypse.

This is a bypass of the City of Brass anti-teleport wards, we can use this to smuggle an army in, or just to unleash a bunch of problematic critters.
 
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On the other hand now we know about this opening, we wont be able to use it this year, but if we can keep it hidden, we could use it next year, to sow a lot of chaos in the city of Brass, I'm thinking if we can hide it, next time it open, we throw a few hundred or more non-neutered Fungal creatures though it, thereby unleashing a Fungal zombie apocalypse on the City of Brass, sure they will eventually deal with it, but no city like suffering a infectious zombie apocalypse.
Yeah, that's definitely an angle we should exploit, though at the same token we need to learn the exact rules of who can use it and how to use it, along with securing the other side of the portal.
 
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