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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
Cersei is a political prisoner and a hostage against the children's good behavior.

The kids will be watched their entire lives, but we will make sure they are taken care of, and they have a chance of happiness.

Robert is dead or the equivalent of dead.

Jaime gets the Wall. If he survives Winter, he gets a pardon. Same as anyone. He'd have earned it by that point.

Tywin gets made into a prop in our political theater, his legacy utterly destroyed.

Lanna and Gerion either dig their own grave or slide into obscurity. At this point they have done enough to obstruct us and help Tywin earn a more destructive overthrow that I don't trust them with any responsibility of real note.

The rest of the extended Lannister clan not already claimed by another House as a bride is either a hostage if they're young enough, going to the Wall if old enough, or married to carefully selected nobles.
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Also the Lannister name is to be wiped out. The name, not the family.
 
Crake said:
Cersei is a political prisoner and a hostage against the children's good behavior.

The kids will be watched their entire lives, but we will make sure they are taken care of, and they have a chance of happiness.

Robert is dead or the equivalent of dead.

Jaime gets the Wall. If he survives Winter, he gets a pardon. Same as anyone. He'd have earned it by that point.

Tywin gets made into a prop in our political theater, his legacy utterly destroyed.

Lanna and Gerion either dig their own grave or slide into obscurity. At this point they have done enough to obstruct us and help Tywin earn a more destructive overthrow that I don't trust them with any responsibility of real note.

The rest of the extended Lannister clan not already claimed by another House as a bride is either a hostage if they're young enough, going to the Wall if old enough, or married to carefully selected nobles.
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So Tyrion gets to be a hostage then? Do we have any plans for him after that?
 
Crake said:
The rest of the extended Lannister clan not already claimed by another House as a bride is either a hostage if they're young enough, going to the Wall if old enough, or married to carefully selected nobles.
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I disagree with that last part.
We haven't started punishing entire families yet and I see no reason to start (see the Tyroshi Archon's family as example).
Obviously they couldn't hold Casterly Rock or Lannisport, because that would be taken directly from Tywin, but aside from that I see no need for further sanctions.
Without those centers they don't have the ressources of a Great House anyway and I think we don't need to talk about reputation for many generations.
 
Smartphone said:
So Tyrion gets to be a hostage then? Do we have any plans for him after that?
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Being careful he doesn't work his way into too much power and keeping general tabs on him, but beyond that he won't be bothered with.
Artemis1992 said:
I disagree with that last part.
We haven't started punishing entire families yet and I see no reason to start (see the Tyroshi Archon's family as example).
Obviously they couldn't hold Casterly Rock or Lannisport, because that would be taken directly from Tywin, but aside from that I see no need for further sanctions.
Without those centers they don't have the ressources of a Great House anyway and I think we don't need to talk about reputation for many generations.
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There's a pretty big difference. We didn't have any personal enmity with the Tyroshi Archon or his family, beyond the Archon himself being an idiot. The Lannisters have made it deeply personal. Through their actions in Westeros they've declared it's okay to go after the royal family. As such they will face the consequences.
 
I know that we have no reason to be nice to Tyrion but it would be amusing to decree that only Tywin's dwarf son can bear the Lannister name, and that all others will have that name stripped from them.
 
I'm attainting the Lannister line. All claims are forfeit. If Lanna and Gerion want to hold Castamere, it will be as House Casterly.

And I do mean that. Their very name will be a reminder of what theft gets them.
Zioneer said:
I know that we have no reason to be nice to Tyrion but it would be amusing to decree that only Tywin's dwarf son can bear the Lannister name, and that all others will have that name stripped from them.
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He will be MUCH better off without it.
 
Crake said:
I'm attainting the Lannister line. All claims are forfeit. If Lanna and Gerion want to hold Castamere, it will be as House Casterly.

And I do mean that. Their very name will be a reminder of what theft gets them.
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Them retaining Castamere will really, really depend on their actions right at the start of the Conquest. Because we just so happen to have a nice Reyne among the ranks of our baby adventurers.
 
Duesal said:
Them retaining Castamere will really, really depend on their actions right at the start of the Conquest. Because we just so happen to have a nice Reyne among the ranks of our baby adventurers.
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I have always been happy to chain them to Tywin and let them sink to the bottom of an active volcano for all I care about them.

It's the same shit as with the Tyrells, who had plenty of reasons to seek us out the very moment we weren't a complete joke, and given their reaction to our appearance they had no intention of doing such at all. Opportunistic little... *grumble*
 
Crake said:
Is power so overwhelming that you have obliterated every trace of their existence after they publicly challenge you to a duel dishonorable? Asking for a friend. :V
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Terrifying but honorable

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 5, 2019 at 3:50 PM, finished with 108 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] "Lord Jonos, the idea for the match was Lady Catelyn's, if not the intent to gain further influence and power by it as Lord Blackwood might assume, and Hoster isn't the sort to come up with this kind of idea. You can take one look in his face and anyone witnessing the apology would be able to attest the same, but laugh at him they would just the same, and all Tytos Blackwood would hear is that laughter years afterward. A private apology, for not thinking things through, for contributing his own part in the folly of youth, that can easily be arranged, if he was not willing to face you directly, maybe weather a spot of reaming over the mess, this wouldn't hold any chance of success. But if we are counting slights right up until the end of this... that slight is going to be the only thing either side remembers." Look at him pointedly. Lord Hoster's mockery is near enough to being Lady Catelyn's mockery. This is just shooting oneself in the foot, as far as it goes.
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Crake said:
I have always been happy to chain them to Tywin and let them sink to the bottom of an active volcano for all I care about them.

It's the same shit as with the Tyrells, who had plenty of reasons to seek us out the very moment we weren't a complete joke, and given their reaction to our appearance they had no intention of doing such at all. Opportunistic little... *grumble*
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Don't remind the thread about those treasonous sausages. I have more than half a mind to strip of them of all lands and titles every time they get brought up.

Edit: Correction. Don't remind me about those treasonous sausages.
 
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Crake said:
I have always been happy to chain them to Tywin and let them sink to the bottom of an active volcano for all I care about them.

It's the same shit as with the Tyrells, who had plenty of reasons to seek us out the very moment we weren't a complete joke, and given their reaction to our appearance they had no intention of doing such at all. Opportunistic little... *grumble*
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They were lulled into a false sense of security by us mostly focusing on reigning in the Three Daughters, most likely.
One Autumn Leaf said:
Don't remind the thread about those treasonous sausages. I have more than half a mind to strip of them of all lands and titles every time they get brought up.
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Treasonous sausages? :rofl: I love it.
 
Duesal said:
There's a pretty big difference. We didn't have any personal enmity with the Tyroshi Archon or his family, beyond the Archon himself being an idiot. The Lannisters have made it deeply personal. Through their actions in Westeros they've declared it's okay to go after the royal family. As such they will face the consequences.
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No.

Damon Lannister, Genna Lannister, Lancel Lannister, Martin Lannister and many other unimportant Lannisters all didn't declare anything.
They didn't do anything to make Viserys their personal enemies.

You can in no way claim they acted worse than any other non-loyalist lord and in many cases they didn't act at all, still being children during the rebellion.

I can see why Tywin will die. I can even see why we have to punish Gerion and Lanna (I'm really dissapointed they still haven't acted, by now they can go down with Tywin if they are so loyal to the bastard).
But not why we should punish some dozens of minor nobles and knights for bearing the name Lannister.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
No.

Damon Lannister, Genna Lannister, Lancel Lannister, Martin Lannister and many other unimportant Lannisters all didn't declare anything.
They didn't do anything to make Viserys their personal enemies.

You can in no way claim they acted worse than any other non-loyalist lord and in many cases they didn't act at all, still being children during the rebellion.

I can see why Tywin will die. I can even see why we have to punish Gerion and Lanna (I'm really dissapointed they still haven't acted, by now they can go down with Tywin if they are so loyal to the bastard).
But not why we should punish some dozens of minor nobles and knights for bearing the name Lannister.
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Like it or not that is not how the setting functions. They stand together as a House, against us. Until the day one of them breaks off and begs for mercy they are all enemies and they will fall together for it. Ultimately too much mercy doesn't make any sense IC and doesn't serve us, and it sends a message to the rest of Westeros that the murder of royalty is something you can get off easy for.

I am absolutely behind @Crake for this.
 
If they actually made a break from Tywin as a whole, I would pardon them on the spot. If they support him right to the bitter end, they can lose everything that matters to them (their damned fucking name) with him.
 
Crake said:
If they actually made a break from Tywin as a whole, I would pardon them on the spot. If they support him right to the bitter end, they can lose everything that matters to them (their damned fucking name) with him.
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Agreed. And they're very likely not going to break away from him. I honestly don't see it happening.
 
Crake said:
If they actually made a break from Tywin as a whole, I would pardon them on the spot. If they support him right to the bitter end, they can lose everything that matters to them (their damned fucking name) with him.
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I would still suggest they change their names though. Just to make sure that they aren't in anyway associated with royal murder. That is a thing you don't want your allies even vaguely connected to.
 
Duesal said:
Like it or not that is not how the setting functions. They stand together as a House, against us. Until the day one of them breaks off and begs for mercy they are all enemies and they will fall together for it. Ultimately too much mercy doesn't make any sense IC and doesn't serve us, and it sends a message to the rest of Westeros that the murder of royalty is something you can get off easy for.

I am absolutely behind @Crake for this.
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We don't have to.
As long as we don't need to punish relativly innocent people for the deeds of distant relatives, we shouldn't.
Crake said:
If they actually made a break from Tywin as a whole, I would pardon them on the spot. If they support him right to the bitter end, they can lose everything that matters to them (their damned fucking name) with him.
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That's fair.
I mean, people stupid enough to fight us through the whole reclamation instead of seeing how the wind blows quickly once we get going deserve to loose all lands and titles.
But that goes for all of them, not just Lannisters.
 
Duesal said:
Being careful he doesn't work his way into too much power and keeping general tabs on him, but beyond that he won't be bothered with.

There's a pretty big difference. We didn't have any personal enmity with the Tyroshi Archon or his family, beyond the Archon himself being an idiot. The Lannisters have made it deeply personal. Through their actions in Westeros they've declared it's okay to go after the royal family. As such they will face the consequences.
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Artemis1992 said:
No.

Damon Lannister, Genna Lannister, Lancel Lannister, Martin Lannister and many other unimportant Lannisters all didn't declare anything.
They didn't do anything to make Viserys their personal enemies.

You can in no way claim they acted worse than any other non-loyalist lord and in many cases they didn't act at all, still being children during the rebellion.

I can see why Tywin will die. I can even see why we have to punish Gerion and Lanna (I'm really dissapointed they still haven't acted, by now they can go down with Tywin if they are so loyal to the bastard).
But not why we should punish some dozens of minor nobles and knights for bearing the name Lannister.
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I fully agree with you, I will fiercely oppose sending people to the Wall for bearing the name Lannister, if they actually did anything then sure, but just being a minor noble with the Lannister name, isn't a reason to be sent to the Wall.
Crake said:
If they actually made a break from Tywin as a whole, I would pardon them on the spot. If they support him right to the bitter end, they can lose everything that matters to them (their damned fucking name) with him.
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Losing their name sure, being sent to the Wall or killed however, should be reserved for those that actually oppose us, having a relative we hate, shouldn't mean you will be punished if you don't actively support us.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We don't have to.
As long as we don't need to punish relativly innocent people for the deeds of distant relatives, we shouldn't.
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Because that's how it goes in politics. When dealing with an enemy House you don't do a halfassed job and let a whole bunch of them retain their nobility, that's a recipe for disaster and sabotage. When attainting a House that has stepped out of line as badly as the Lannisters have, you go all the way. Every last title stripped, all power taken away. They won't die, but they will lose everything.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
I would still suggest they change their names though. Just to make sure that they aren't in anyway associated with royal murder. That is a thing you don't want your allies even vaguely connected to.
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The name Lannister will not be legally supported for any title bearing Lord under the Imperial Reorganization of 294 AC. Anyone that attempts to file documents under that name will be asked to resend them.

I'm not joking.
 
tarrangar said:
I fully agree with you, I will fiercely oppose sending people to the Wall for bearing the name Lannister, if they actually did anything then sure, but just being a minor noble with the Lannister name, isn't a reason to be sent to the Wall.
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No one is saying that. All we have said is that the name be removed from any person who has it. Genna Lannister can take on a different name as can any other Lannister...provided they side with us against their family. Those who oppose us will have lands and titles stripped. The Lannister name will forever synonymous with treason and child murder and any Lannister family member, who sided with us, will have it be suggested (demanded) to adopt other names, adopt the names of their spouses or make up new ones entirely. But there will be no Lannisters in power. End of story.
 
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