- Location
- United States
I think so, but I'm not sure. This was the general consensus among the thread, however.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
There is another aspect of inheritance law that I don't believe we discussed.
It's one thing if your inheritance is part of a long established noble lineage, where you are expected to die and leave the family holdings to a designated heir. It's all well and good to establish laws to enforce culturally accepted standards of inheritance. That is necessary to prevent a great deal of upheaval in the upper strata of society.
On the other hand, if you are a merchant, trader, or someone who accumulates your own wealth rather than inheriting it yourself, I don't think we should try to enforce any kind of inheritance regulations. That's wealth the person earned on their own, so they shouldn't be forced to give it to their children.
It's one thing if your inheritance is part of a long established noble lineage, where you are expected to die and leave the family holdings to a designated heir. It's all well and good to establish laws to enforce culturally accepted standards of inheritance. That is necessary to prevent a great deal of upheaval in the upper strata of society.
On the other hand, if you are a merchant, trader, or someone who accumulates your own wealth rather than inheriting it yourself, I don't think we should try to enforce any kind of inheritance regulations. That's wealth the person earned on their own, so they shouldn't be forced to give it to their children.
- Location
- Missouri
So something like only those with official titles or lands are forced into giving inheritance to their children by the government?
- Location
- Australia
I assume they taste opposite to Ulitharid.
Just as bad, mind you, but in an opposite direction.
-------------------------------------------------
[X] Yes, of course
-[X] This month, you had yet to visit Armun Kelisk and Opaline Vault.
--[X] Gather the orders, set up new ones.
---[X] Buy Staves, @Goldfish.
--[X] Meet with Djinn and Shaitan spymasters.
---[X] Ask when would be the preferable time for us to visit Vialesk and other Marid states with their delegations, in an attempt to draw Marid into war with Efreeti.
---[X] Offer the Djinn and the Shaitan the services of the Fleshforge and Plantforge for war and peace alike, at a fair price.
---[X] With Asmodeus himself starting to act on Plane of Balance, a lot is at stake. Request whatever lore or knowledge on Hells and those serving Asmodeus they can share, anything that can help in rooting out his influence.
---[X] You are planning to strike at the Bitch-Queen in short amount of time. Still, far it be from you not to plan for the worst. Ask whether the Empires have anything that may serve as the last-ditch measure in event all out plans come to ruin and we require something to stop Divine influence imposing onto reality, if only for a short while.
---[X] Ask whether they are aware of any especially hidden, or not well-known forces/groups that may be of help to us breaking the illithids upon the Plane of Balance - groups that we would be able to rely on not to become a problem later on if we use them (unlike most Brines, for example).
----[X] We aren't asking for their help, what with war on Efreeti being just as important- but any aquatic forces we haven't heard of ourselves with the limited exposure to the Planes we had yet.
Anything I'm forgetting, @everyone?
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MAs relevant to OV/AK, @DragonParadox:
Exotic creature/corpse shopping, with an emphasis on Burrowers and sneaky/ambush creatures.
Please and thank you.
@DragonParadox
I'm not opposed to Asha having the Hunter's Moon but I would like some idea of how the price she is paying compared. Is this a fair price for a ship of this kind?
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- Location
- United States
Inheritance applies there too, dude. Just because you build it up on your own doesn't mean you aren't denying your children a proper inheritance by stubbornly staying alive. Peasants and merchants pass down whatever they have as well.
This is the kind of loophole we shouldn't be making in the law.
A good trade ship would have been 2,000 IM.
The Hunter's Moon, as the former pride of the Baratheon Royal Fleet, would have been 5,000 IM or more.
Just make it so noble titles and property is subject to inheritence laws once a natural lifetime has passed. That's the major concern anyway. Personal wealth and property not subject to class laws should just be theirs.
It's the same logic where a noble needs royal permission to legalize a bastard on change the heir but a regular person can give everything he has to anyone he wants at anytime or no one ever.
Probably not explaining it well but I typing on my phone at the gym. You guys get the idea. Later.
It's the same logic where a noble needs royal permission to legalize a bastard on change the heir but a regular person can give everything he has to anyone he wants at anytime or no one ever.
Probably not explaining it well but I typing on my phone at the gym. You guys get the idea. Later.
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- Location
- Australia
Then that's a little strange from Asha.
"I want to pay my own way, I don't want charity, my offer is 10% of its value" -.-
It can even fix the loophole for Companions in leadership positions. Appointed Noble positions for Life or retirement. Hereditary Noble positions are for a Lifetime.
- Location
- United States
That doesn't address the issue at all. Inheritance is not solely limited to nobility. Merchants and smallfolk also happen to pass down their belongings to their children. If a rich merchant builds up a company and decides to pay for reincarnation and hoard his wealth, yes, that is effectively denying his children their inheritance.
Now there can certainly be a debate on how inheritance is split when reincarnation is involved -- with the reincarnated person retaining a portion of the wealth -- but inheritance definitely needs to happen. If we're allowing this at all we're not doing it at the expense of people who would have otherwise gotten their inheritance.
None of this will apply to Companions. They basically have full access to the Imperial Treasury, so it's honestly a moot point. Furthermore they'll all probably be actually immortal rather than needing to rely on Cyclic Reincarnation.
She offered everything she had, and it's not like we're hurting for cash, so I don't mind all that much. In exchange we get a loyal Ironborn Princess out of it.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
@Goldfish Worst case scenario, if someone becomes so exorbitantly rich that they begin to exert influence on par with even the meagerest landed nobility, taxes will take care of everything
If you're taxed at the same rate every time to reincarnate, no loopholes in these cases that allow you to bury your wealth in off shore accounts, in other realms, whatever. I know, I know, release of tax returns to ensure you're actually paying your fair share? How topical.
But this is even more relevant if generational wealth doesn't cut itself down to size through incompetent heirs like in real life because the smart entrepreneur raised shitheel spendthrift wastrels. If they're pulling in incomes? Tax them. If they're getting another lifespan? Tax them for that too. Tax evasion through neat tricks are cute, but we have divination and top-down anti-corruption measures. We'll catch you.
Our equivalent of the IRS is going to be scarier than the fucking Inquisition to nobles and plutocrats.
If you're taxed at the same rate every time to reincarnate, no loopholes in these cases that allow you to bury your wealth in off shore accounts, in other realms, whatever. I know, I know, release of tax returns to ensure you're actually paying your fair share? How topical.
But this is even more relevant if generational wealth doesn't cut itself down to size through incompetent heirs like in real life because the smart entrepreneur raised shitheel spendthrift wastrels. If they're pulling in incomes? Tax them. If they're getting another lifespan? Tax them for that too. Tax evasion through neat tricks are cute, but we have divination and top-down anti-corruption measures. We'll catch you.
Our equivalent of the IRS is going to be scarier than the fucking Inquisition to nobles and plutocrats.
- Location
- Australia
I don't care at all, I'd give it to her but it just doesn't make any sense from her perspective.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Goldfish I mentioned a few days ago that for some reason Naria didn't have a picture. I just got to the part where you put her sheet together. Now I feel mildly bad for her. A misunderstanding about Viseria's role (crafter vs researcher) lead you to create her. Rather than months of excitement and back and forth that fluffed her up and got people excited for her crafting, she got thrown together mid month in hurry to fulfill a gap in the plans. Not even enough love to get her own picture. She's the redheaded step child between you and @Azel.
- Location
- United States
This is a solution I can get behind.
I doubt she realizes what the ship is worth given that she presented us her ~600 IM life savings so confidently.
Even if she was the result of an accident she's a very valued arcanum, and has been instrumental for a lot of our research.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It was a bit of a misunderstanding, IIRC, but Naria was very much necessary and has been a big help ever since Lya created her. She wasn't really thrown together, IMO, but purpose built to be an exceptional researcher despite her relatively low level.
She does need a good picture, though.
- Location
- Australia
Hmm, maybe so.
@DragonParadox from Viserys' IC perspective does Asha understand how much she's lowballing the Hunter's Moon and is there a risk she gets offendended in the future when she realises we basically gave it away?
- Location
- Australia
Interesting, rather than banning things what we should probably do is just applying a scaling Resurrection Tax on assets and holdings.
They might take the hit the first couple of times but eventually they will decide that it's probably more in their interest to just treat their heirs well and groom them to continue the business at X less tax rate.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Of course. All joking aside, I do think she needs picture, especially if she's been as helpful as you all say. The Arcanums are really unique and interesting facet of the quest, and turned out really well despite all the doomsaying I read early on before Mercy.
I hope in the next few chapter a good introduction for Valeria happens. So far her introduction amounted to Viserys walking in with Rogare to get her a couple magic items and saying hi.
- Location
- Germany
Well, after certain sums are reached the Inquisition will actually look into these matters. A few hundred thousand IM appearing or disappearing for no apparent reason could easily be an indicator of illegal dealings with high-level magic, fiends, etc, so they make a point of poking around estates that report a lot more or less money on their taxes then seems reasonable.
If your trading company is obviously doing well on the stock market and raking in millions, but your tax fillings claim you are a pauper, people will be very curious to find out where all that money is going.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I think this only gets progressively bad when you have the fox in the henhouse, so to speak, like in our world.
Really internal investigations are easy to justify when you can bring up sufficient evidence that your "harmless accepting of bribes" was from someone funneling vast sums of material wealth and resources into an apocalypse cult.
...the above was supposed to be unironic, but... eeesh...
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- Location
- Germany
There's also the issue that no matter what you do, you will never be able to bribe the head of state to look the other way while you steal from the state. Because in Viserys case, that's his money you are stealing, and the Inquisition has specific protocols to make it very hard to bury information due to having to live with the constant threat of mindcontrol, divination and other forms of enemy action.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Really, it's fun when you sidestep the first draconic pratfall and realize that you should invest your money, spread it out through your Kingdom, so that your money makes more money for you. In effect, when your people grow rich, you do too... so long as they pay their taxes.
- Location
- United States
I am a bit proud that crime in Sorcerer's Deep is primarily white collar these days, and that even the criminals don't dare dodge taxes.
- Location
- Germany
There's not exactly an abundance of desperate poor from which blue collar crime could recruit.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
[X] Yes, of course.
-[X] This month, you had yet to visit Armun Kelisk and Opaline Vault.
--[X] Gather the crafting orders, set up new ones.
---[X] Buy Staves, @Goldfish.
--[X] Meet with Djinn and Shaitan spymasters.
---[X] Ask when would be the preferable time for us to visit Vialesk and other Marid states with their delegations, in an attempt to draw Marid into war with Efreeti.
---[X] Offer the Djinn and the Shaitan the services of the Fleshforge and Plantforge for war and peace alike, at a fair price.
---[X] With Asmodeus himself starting to act on Plane of Balance, a lot is at stake. Request whatever lore or knowledge on Hells and those serving Asmodeus they can share, anything that can help in rooting out his influence.
---[X] You are planning to strike at the Bitch-Queen in short amount of time. Still, far it be from you not to plan for the worst. Ask whether the Empires have anything that may serve as the last-ditch measure in event all out plans come to ruin and we require something to stop Divine influence imposing onto reality, if only for a short while.
---[X] Ask whether they are aware of any especially hidden, or not well-known forces/groups that may be of help to us breaking the illithids upon the Plane of Balance - groups that we would be able to rely on not to become a problem later on if we use them (unlike most Brines, for example).
----[X] We aren't asking for their help, what with war on Efreeti being just as important- but any aquatic forces we haven't heard of ourselves with the limited exposure to the Planes we had yet.
--[X] Take a quick look round the markets of Opaline Vault for exotic creatures, specifically borrowers and ambush predators.
-[X] This month, you had yet to visit Armun Kelisk and Opaline Vault.
--[X] Gather the crafting orders, set up new ones.
---[X] Buy Staves, @Goldfish.
--[X] Meet with Djinn and Shaitan spymasters.
---[X] Ask when would be the preferable time for us to visit Vialesk and other Marid states with their delegations, in an attempt to draw Marid into war with Efreeti.
---[X] Offer the Djinn and the Shaitan the services of the Fleshforge and Plantforge for war and peace alike, at a fair price.
---[X] With Asmodeus himself starting to act on Plane of Balance, a lot is at stake. Request whatever lore or knowledge on Hells and those serving Asmodeus they can share, anything that can help in rooting out his influence.
---[X] You are planning to strike at the Bitch-Queen in short amount of time. Still, far it be from you not to plan for the worst. Ask whether the Empires have anything that may serve as the last-ditch measure in event all out plans come to ruin and we require something to stop Divine influence imposing onto reality, if only for a short while.
---[X] Ask whether they are aware of any especially hidden, or not well-known forces/groups that may be of help to us breaking the illithids upon the Plane of Balance - groups that we would be able to rely on not to become a problem later on if we use them (unlike most Brines, for example).
----[X] We aren't asking for their help, what with war on Efreeti being just as important- but any aquatic forces we haven't heard of ourselves with the limited exposure to the Planes we had yet.
--[X] Take a quick look round the markets of Opaline Vault for exotic creatures, specifically borrowers and ambush predators.
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