Once this starts becoming a problem, we could just subsidize regular resurrection and/or loans to pay for it. It'd remove this vector of attack on an unpopular tax, and give us a direct way to track the use of this kind of magic.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
- Location
- France
Wait, this is dumb. Everyone (including those immortal super-rich who fuck up our economy) will just Reincarnate every 20 years to get around the law.
And @tarrangar, we just can't Reincarnate or Raise everyone. We have had this discussion in the past, and your math just doesn't hold up.
Sometimes people die. Especially when they go out to fight monsters.
It sucks to say "the poor die and the rich get a second chance" but eventually we have to face the lack of an alternative solution (well, we could forbid resurrection magic in the name of equality... But that sounds like a bad decision to me).
How do we pick who we subsidize? We can't raise them all, remember !
- Location
- France
Our banks. The collateral is "I'm super killy" and the interest rate will be high because such loans are inherently high-risk for the bank, but the loan should exist.
@egoo is correct. Banks count as Devils.
ryuan
From Zero to Hero!
Well, the issue of wealthy individuals starting to plot rebelion in the future on account of being stolen their money, however justified they might believe it or not, is a problem for future Viserys, likely in two to three thousand years.
Or two hundred, if he creates the Magical Internet in the mean time.
Or two hundred, if he creates the Magical Internet in the mean time.
- Location
- France
The good thing about limiting their wealth is that it also limits their power. And I doubt they'll manage a proper mass revolt over inheritance taxes (especially if we make them progressive, like all inheritance taxes ever) so they'll be reduced to backroom plotting... Against us. Cute.
Similarly, we can also limit their ability to deliberately crash our economy, or even their ability to squirrel all their wealth offplane.
And worst case, there's always the
It's great to be a dictatorship!
- Location
- Earth
I have lost many many hours over finicking around with colored text in spoilers, in the end I gave up and learned BB code, nowadays I just use BB code formaters and copy over large posts to here in raw BB code text instead of losing hours of progress in SV or SBs editors.
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Somewhere there is a feedback thread I think?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In 1984, the worst thing around were humans. We have diversity!
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
1. We can let everyone reincarnate, the Fungus Forge can make the required casters, and with the increased earning potential all paths in life have after the optimizations we have introduced, saving up 200IM during your life isn't that hard.
Of course there's the space constraints, but Planetos is under populated at the moment, the Underdark plant life, allow us to make pretty much endless subterranean living space, and we have already accomplished space travel, so lack of living space is unlikely to become a big problem.
2. No reincarnating every 20 year wouldn't let you avoid the tax, when you get hit by the tax, is not calculated based on your physical age, it's based on how long it's since you were last hit by the tax, so while you can stave the tax off a bit by reincarnating at 39, and then not reincarnating again before your new body get old, you can't just repeatedly avoid the tax like that, because whether you get hit with the tax, is calculated based on when you last got hit with it, not on what your physical age is.
You say my math don't hold up, but I believe it's your math that don't hold up, we can't pay for everyone reincarnating, but we can set things up, so everyone have the opportunity to save up for reincarnation.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Oh, god, can we please not rehash this argument again. Please?
You don't have a proper sense of scale, dude. It won't work for reasons myself and others have explained exhaustively. I'm not willing to do it again, and I don't think many others here are either.
I realize you have issues with letting ideas go, but can you please try?
Vote closed.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
This is not just to do with my having issues with letting ideas go, it's also to do with the fact, that I really don't like the idea of denying reincarnation to the masses, because it might cause future problems.
Edit. And my dislike has of course been increased, by learning how fucked up the afterlives are.
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It is not so much denying reincarnation, so much as not working specifically to give reincarnation to the masses. It is worth noting that if you guys build that Imperial Dream death will not be as permanent and terrible a separation as it is now. Just go to your nearest Imperial priest and he will set up a dream meeting between you and your dead loved ones.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
I don't want us to give reincarnation to the masses, I just think that making beings in the Fungus Forge that can reincarnate you if you pay them isn't giving it to the masses, it's just making it something they can work towards if they want.
- Location
- France
People won't stop having children. Population will increase EXPONENTIALLY, and a massive rate. We'll run out of the reagents necessary for the millions of daily Reincarnations, and getting the required spell slots, casters and infrastructure would be insanely difficult. And what will we even feed all those people?
Look, I hate IRL Malthusianism and I would also love to be able to give everyone access to eternal life. But DP won't allow self-replicating infinite-use magic items or infinite Wish loops, and without that any kind of "make everyone live forever and come back from death" plan is just utterly impossible for basic logistical reasons.
- Location
- Germany
I'm pretty sure that most of the thread is beyond annoyed by this topic by now, so please just stop.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It's completely impossible. That's all there is to it. Impossible.
Population growth will always exceed the capacity for Reincarnation.
I'm trying not to be a dick, but this has been explained previously. Multiple times. You have got to learn to let things go, dude.
- Location
- France
Arguably we could build more Fungus Forges and tax the growing population to fund new rounds of Reincarnate-casting Leshies. Fine, let's accept that theory. I'm not sure the costs work out, but whatever. Maybe peasants will all get richer and it'll work.
But @tarrangar, how will we solve the food problem? Or the reagent problems? Sure, the Planes are infinite and theoretically have infinite resources, but most of that infinity seems utterly uninhabitable and more or less useless.
The thing is the Old Gods can already do that though the forge, it requires their direct will so they won't do it while the Others exist, but if you guys can deal with that the forge could reincarnate fine, though they would not work for money.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Seriously, dude? Please don't encourage him. He literally can't help himself, but you should know better.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
The Fungus Forge can produce people who can cast reincarnate, and we can make more Fungus Forges, so getting the spell slots is no problem.
The reagents can be grown, so while it would be hard to set up, considering a large part of our population are farmers, growing the plants to extract the rare oils required from should be doable, and as the workforce expand as much as the demand, the supply should be able to keep up with the demand, as long as we have space to grow the reagents on, and with Underdark plants making it so we can grow things underground, our available space is pretty much infinite.
Food is the same, with Underdark plants, space travel and the Plane of Earth, we have a limitless amount of places that can be turned into farmland, so we aren't likely to run out of food.
There's lots of ways to solve the food problem, we already have space travel, and we have access to the plane of Earth, we could set up portals in space and literally build planets if we wanted, we of course wouldn't as a planet is a terribly inefficient use of resources, but building asteroid farms aren't so inefficient, and there's space for a near endless amount of them around the sun, and if we ever fill up the space around our sun, well there's plenty more suns where that one came from.
The asteroid farms would need massive glass domes to keep the air in of course, and we would probably have to research how to tint the domes to keep radiation from getting in, but once that research was done, we could literally build endless domed asteroid farms, they don't need to be small either, although it's probably better to have each individual dome be smallish, with just lots of connected domes with doors between, so you don't need to just break 1 dome to destroy a whole country worth of domes.
And yes I know it will be quite some time before we can mass produce that kind of thing, but Planetos at the moment have a quite low population, and there's still plenty of easier colonization targets, so even if we mass introduce reincarnation, we have centuries, before we need to begin building domed cities around the sun.
The Forge can also make beings that can cast reincarnate, a Druid creature with the spell is below CR10, so as long as we can build more Fungus Forges, we should be able to make any amount of reincarnators needed.
DragonParadox just outright said this statement is false, the Old gods can reincarnate any number of people, sure they wont take payment in money, but if instead of it being them directly doing it, it's Fungus Forge creatures doing it, then the Fungus Forge creatures will probably take payment in reagents, so they can create more of themselves.
All evidence is that while yes reincarnation would result in exponential growth, seeing as we can build more Fungus Forges, we can equally cause our amount of Reincarnators to exponentially grow.
On a completely unrelated topic, I have some security spells I was curious about.
Do you guys think Cleansing Fire would be a good permanent addition to the Snare?
It might also be worth using to line doorways at security checkpoints. We could use them like metal detectors at airports, if we require people to stand in them for a few rounds we could force every evil descriptor spell on them to pass three dispell checks.
The DC wouldn't be the best, but it would add a layer of difficulty to sneaking mind controlled minions around.
I also found this Anti Summoning Field spell which might be useful for secure areas. Sure they could just summon outside of it, but that would waste time on temporary minions and force them to fight through any external defenses.
At the very least it would stop our enemies from using the same tactic we used on the Bey of Beggars against the companions.
Do you guys think Cleansing Fire would be a good permanent addition to the Snare?
It might also be worth using to line doorways at security checkpoints. We could use them like metal detectors at airports, if we require people to stand in them for a few rounds we could force every evil descriptor spell on them to pass three dispell checks.
The DC wouldn't be the best, but it would add a layer of difficulty to sneaking mind controlled minions around.
I also found this Anti Summoning Field spell which might be useful for secure areas. Sure they could just summon outside of it, but that would waste time on temporary minions and force them to fight through any external defenses.
At the very least it would stop our enemies from using the same tactic we used on the Bey of Beggars against the companions.