@DragonParadox, so the Maenads are willing to cooperate then? So long as they don't promote lawlessness or make people eat their relatives like in Westhaven I guess they can stay.

Is there any proper Cleric of Zagreus around to talk to or no? Preferably one who isn't totally insane.
 
Hmmmm, I don't think he needs outlawing but rather some restrictions to prevent such things from happening again. Perhaps communing with him and if he refuses to follow the restrictions and rules we ban his divine ass from our empire and stamp him out where ever he turns up.
 
...Well, that's interesting.

@everyone, ya'll think we should talk directly to Zagreus next month, and see for ourselves if we can trust him enough?

I'd say that his hate of "binding the will of others" may just have him side with our God-alliance against Tiamat, but strong distaste for killing makes him as much of a trouble in the same vein as the Blind God of Lorath (who really isn't worth our time for said overpowering tenet) is.

Pros: More power to Well of Souls (God-powered God-snare), better integration of relatively harmless god into society.
Cons: May ask for keeping Tiamat's people alive, and we just can't afford that.
Also may betray us, because he'd find it more 'fun'.
 
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...Well, that's interesting.

@everyone, ya'll think we should talk directly to Zagreus next month, and see for ourselves if we can trust him enough?

I'd say that his hate of "binding the will of others" may just have him side with our God-alliance against Tiamat, but strong distaste for killing makes him ad much of a trouble in the same vein as the Blind God of Lorath (who really isn't worth our time for said overpowering tenet).

Pros: More power to Well of Souls (God-powered God-snare), better integration of relatively harmless god into society.
Cons: May ask for keeping Tiamat's people alive, and we just can't afford that.
Kind of jumping the gun, dude. We've got the Maenads in custody. We can just talk to them. Talking to a god is a lot more complicated. Zagreus is neutral at best (we sacrificed Maenads for our second Weirwood Heart Tree), and unlike the Storm God, Zagreus isn't mostly dead. I for one am not in favor of seeking him out only for him to pancake us.
 
Kind of jumping the gun, dude. We've got the Maenads in custody. We can just talk to them. Talking to a god is a lot more complicated. Zagreus is neutral at best (we sacrificed Maenads for our second Weirwood Heart Tree), and unlike the Storm God, Zagreus isn't mostly dead. I for one am not in favor of seeking him out only for him to pancake us.
Eh, I mean, at the very least we could ask for him to come forth and have a chat.
He might just find it 'fun's to do for once.

...We have exotic booze as sacrifice :V

I'm leery of completely trusting what Divine Servants would say, as they may just get directly controlled by Deity to keep some information away, or outright lie.
Hell, even with Weeping Lady I'm trying to set up a direct meeting next month, and her we trust much more than him for sure.


I'm excited by chance to grab more support, but I'm not sure if we should.

We aren't taking R'hlor because he's (currently) an asshole and his tenets conflict really hard with those of several gods we have helping with Well of Souls.

This guy...
I'm just not sure we had nearly enough exposure to one-another yet.


@everyone, shall I set up a personal meeting with... *sigh* one of his servants next month as an MA?
Learning how far he'll go if we ask, and such and such..?
 
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Eh, I mean, at the very least we could ask for him to come forth and have a chat.
He might just find it 'fun's to do for once.

...We have exotic booze as sacrifice :V

I'm leery of completely trusting what Divine Servants would say, as they may just get directly controlled by Deity to keep some information away, or outright lie.
Hell, even with Weeping Lady I'm trying to set up a direct meeting next month, and her we trust much more than him for sure.


I'm excited by chance to grab more support, but I'm not sure if we should.
And I'm leery of involving a god whose daughters we sacrificed in such a high stakes ritual. There is absolutely bad blood between us. That's not to say it can't be overcome, but certainly that we shouldn't be jumping headfirst in an alliance.
We aren't taking R'hlor because he's (currently) an asshole and his tenets conflict really hard with those of several gods we have helping with Well of Souls.

This guy...
I'm just not sure we had nearly enough exposure to one-another yet.


@everyone, shall I set up a personal meeting with... *sigh* one of his servants next month as an MA?
Learning how far he'll go if we ask, and such and such..?
Gods aren't morons, dude. The ones involved won't drop shit to fight each other when they're going against Tiamat. And keep in mind they've coexisted for millennia, so there's at minimum some form of truce.

As for R'hllor's domains:

R'hllor the Red
The Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the Ever-Flame

Alignment: Lawfully Evil

Domains: Fire, Law, Protection, Tyranny, Healing
Law, Protection, and Healing would very likely come in handy in countering Tiamat. Don't forget he's also the most powerful deity in Prime Material, it'd be folly to ignore him for this when we're not actually on bad terms with him.
 
People..

This one deity had its prime worshipper captured, tortured.. And did nothing.

Despair turned to spite, to the point said worshipper turned against said faith wholly.. And did nothing.

Divine servants were enslaved, made to serve directly against dogma.. And did nothing.

Almost the entirety of congregation were mind controlled, to the point this new purpose was Zagreus' face to the world.. And did nothing.

Guilt by inaction is indeed a thing. When shall one stop doing nothing? Said god might as well not exist, for all the impact such has. A random noble with some cash wields far more power.
 
@DragonParadox, a big part of Zagreus' lore is that he's the god of parties and madness in particular. Did Shara not have anything to say about the last part or were the Maenads oddly reasonable?
 
Law, Protection, and Healing would very likely come in handy in countering Tiamat. Don't forget he's also the most powerful deity in Prime Material, it'd be folly to ignore him for this when we're not actually on bad terms with him.
Tyranny would conflict hard with Yahzarin and Silver Moon Goddess at the very least.

He's also likely picked up "hating" Weeping Lady of Lys through his followers' claiming the previous version of faith an instrument of Others. The one that had "Death" Domain some time ago.
Yet R'hlors people still believe that in places, so it's very unlikely that he changed his mind as well.

And then there's the problem that he's also a bit too powerful in comparison to other Gods taking part.

He's just not a god I'd trust to put power in Well of Souls at this point, not yet.
We haven't changed too much of his nature to trust him not to abuse that.

Best case, his Domains simply conflict with those of other Gods (mostly Freedom, we have lots) and we have less powerful effect.
Worst case, he's an asshole about the whole thing.

And yes, I jumped the gun with Zagreus, ye'r right about that.
Like I said, I'm almost desperate to empower the WoS more (even though we have all bases covered as is already, I'm greedy like that)...
But even then, I'm not considering R'hlor.
 
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Tyranny would conflict hard with Yahzarin and Silver Moon Goddess at the very least.

He's also likely picked up "hating" Weeping Lady of Lys through his followers' claiming the previous version of faith an instrument of Others. The one that had "Death" Domain some time ago.
Yet R'hlors people still believe that in places, so it's very unlikely that he changed his mind as well.

And then there's the problem that he's also a bit too powerful in comparison to other Gods taking part.

He's just not a god I'd trust to put power in Well of Souls at this point, not yet.
We haven't changed too much of his nature to trust him not to abuse that.


And yes, I jumped the gun with Zagreus, like I said, I'm desperate to empower the WoS more...
But even then, I'm not considering R'hlor.
How about we actually talk to the relevant clerics instead of deciding without doing any research? This is the kind of thing that should be one of our minor actions.

I'm pretty damn sure everyone involved will be willing to forego their differences in the face of Tiamat.

Seriously, @egoo, are you forgetting R'hllor's origins? He was once a man suffering under the Red Dragon Empire. He hates Tiamat more than anything.
 
How about we actually talk to the relevant clerics instead of deciding without doing any research? This is the kind of thing that should be one of our minor actions.

I'm pretty damn sure everyone involved will be willing to forego their differences in the face of Tiamat.

Seriously, @egoo, are you forgetting R'hllor's origins? He was once a man suffering under the Red Dragon Empire. He hates Tiamat more than anything.
*gets uncomfortable*

I don't trust any clerics even more that I don't trust the word of a mere Divine Servant.

Would Melisande not add her own prejudices into the answer she gives us?
Will she really? With her long life, and high stats?

Would such clerics as Benerro not have some differences on this as well?

Their reception doesn't automatically prove to be truth of said God.

Case in point, the Masque, who still had Divine-granted power after going captial-M Mad, even having done 180 on his opinion of the Deity.

I don't trust the guy to be reasonable/trustworthy about this, yes.
But not in the least because what god is is defined by what is believed of him... and none actually remembers that he used to suffer under Draconic Empire, do they?
 
*gets uncomfortable*

I don't trust any clerics even more that I don't trust the word of a mere Divine Servant.

Would Melisande not add her own prejudices into the answer she gives us?
Will she really? With her long life, and high stats?

Would such clerics as Benerro not have some differences on this as well?

Their reception doesn't automatically prove to be truth of said God.

Case in point, the Masque, who still had Divine-granted power after going captial-M Mad, even having done 180 on his opinion of the Deity.

I don't trust the guy to be reasonable/trustworthy about this, yes.
But not in the least because what god is is defined by what is believed of him... and none actually remembers that he used to suffer under Draconic Empire, do they?
Well, I for one fully intend to talk to R'hllor about this. We're not on bad terms with the god, his followers have been adapting extremely well in the Imperium, and he despises Tiamat more than anything.

Burying our head in the sand won't make R'hllor go away, so some of our minor actions should absolutely be to talk to him.
 
I get that you don't like Rhllor, @egoo - but realistically speaking there's no way we're just going to ignore him, fighting him is moronic, and he'd be an enormously useful asset and 'ally'. It's hardly the first time we've cooperated with someone we don't trust or some of us disliked, so I'm really not sure what exactly your objection is or where it's coming from.

In any case, I imagine this'll once again be a case of hyping up/fear-mongering about someone we've never actually interacted with, and the moment we actually meet them it'll deflate like a leaky balloon.
 
Vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 28, 2019 at 2:25 PM, finished with 55 posts and 6 votes.

  • [X] See if Breath Taker can identify the horn's likely origin and abilities--incidentally this is as fine a time as any for Lord Celtigar to first encounter both a Triton and a priest of the Merling King.
    -[X] If he cannot, or not in whole, we'll offer to study the horn and see what it actually does.
 
Well, I for one fully intend to talk to R'hllor about this. We're not on bad terms with the god, his followers have been adapting extremely well in the Imperium, and he despises Tiamat more than anything.

Burying our head in the sand won't make R'hllor go away, so some of our minor actions should absolutely be to talk to him.
...I don't get to veto this one, do I..?

Pretty please..?

He's been asshole to us in person (and got his claws in Garin), he's too big of an entity compared to our gods, and his domains may clash with theirs..?



Ugh, fine, I'll add that shit.

But just so you all know, even by tallying up all of the Domains on our and Tiamat's side, we don't need him to counter her.
At all.

All he may offer is raw power, and even then our Gods cover that well enough.
 
...I don't get to veto this one, do I..?

Pretty please..?

He's been asshole to us in person (and got his claws in Garin), he's too big of an entity compared to our gods, and his domains may clash with theirs..?



Ugh, fine, I'll add that shit.

But just so you all know, even by tallying up all of the Domains on our and Tiamat's side, we don't need him to counter her.
This is getting genuinely ridiculous, dude.
 
This is getting genuinely ridiculous, dude.
Listen, I've taken to bear the project of Well of Souls to the end, as the one a certain prominent poster thought up, and started on before leaving.

I'm invested, and worried about the slightest details, as DP may acclaim over my PMs with him.

R'hlor is a huge wrench in the plan as it was until this very moment.
A huge amount of raw power of which we know next to nothing, with some suspiciously assholish tendencies.
It's an entity that may or may not overshadow the effort invested by all other Gods, lesser than him - and make them metaphysically less powerful than him on quite few levels in the act (if they do succeed against Tiamat).
We don't want that, obviously.

And that if he doesn't decide to take up the power, or decide what to do with it, by himself


I'm running every variant I can to get us better chances with this, and R'hlor is a huge mess of "maybe"s.

Edit: low on charge, talk later
 
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Listen, I've taken to bear the project of Well of Souls to the end, as the one a certain prominent poster thought up, and started on before leaving.

I'm invested, and worried about the slightest details, as DP may acclaim over my PMs with him.

R'hlor is a huge wrench in the plan as it was until this very moment.
A huge amount of raw power of which we know next to nothing, with some suspiciously assholish tendencies.
It's an entity that may or may not overshadow the effort invested by all other Gods, lesser than him - and make them metaphysically less powerful than him on quite few levels in the act (if they do succeed against Tiamat).
We don't want that, obviously.

And that if he doesn't decide to take up the power, or decide what to do with it, by himself


I'm running every variant I can to get us better chances with this, and R'hlor is a huge mess of "maybe"s.

Edit: low on charge, talk later
We're going against Tiamat. The solution is not to ignore the biggest potential ally without so much as testing the waters.
 
We're going against Tiamat. The solution is not to ignore the biggest potential ally without so much as testing the waters.
And like I said, fine, we'll do that.
But don't expect me to be reasonble in face on any bullshit he so much as tries to pull.

Worshippers =/= God, long perspective aside.
Even such as Melisande.

From him we haven't seen much worthy of either trust or distrust - and as tight as we are on the clock against Tiamat, I'm quite discouraged to try and discover how he'll act - especially since we can't just talk to him personally and ascertain that directly.
 
And like I said, fine, we'll do that.
But don't expect me to be reasonble in face on any bullshit he so much as tries to pull.

Worshippers =/= God, long perspective aside.
Even such as Melisande.

From him we haven't seen much worthy of either trust or distrust - and as tight as we are on the clock against Tiamat, I'm quite discouraged to try and discover how he'll act - especially since we can't just talk to him personally and ascertain that directly.
... We haven't so much as tried to contact him directly. What makes you so sure we can't just do it? I'm pretty sure if we set it up we could have the clerics of R'hllor just arrange a direct meeting. He showed up on his own once before. There's nothing stopping us from talking to him now. I'm confident that if it's against Tiamat he'll be willing to play ball. Hell, even if it weren't against Tiamat, he was never truly hostile.

And no, him getting more powerful is not an issue given that the Imperium is rapidly shaping him into a compliant deity. I also wouldn't be worried about the other gods getting less divine power, either. Tiamat is older and more powerful than them all, there's probably too much divine power to be stolen.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 28, 2019 at 2:25 PM, finished with 55 posts and 6 votes.

  • [X] See if Breath Taker can identify the horn's likely origin and abilities--incidentally this is as fine a time as any for Lord Celtigar to first encounter both a Triton and a priest of the Merling King.
    -[X] If he cannot, or not in whole, we'll offer to study the horn and see what it actually does.
 
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Part MMMLXXXIX: Of Treasures Old and New
Of Treasures Old and New

Thirty-First Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

"I think, my lord, that this is going to require a second opinion..." You hesitate a moment, not sure how much of what you had seen you should share. The proud Lord Celtigar might be shamed to know himself descended of a mutineer, for all you see that same ambition and will in him. "You will have a chance to meet a priest of the Merling King sooner than anticipated."

So saying you draw out a scrying mirror from your cloak and weave spells of far-seeing into the glass under the ever more intrigued gaze of the Red Crab. "Are they riding dolphins?" he asks at the sight of the company Breath Taker and Blight's Bane travel in. "I suppose it's true what sailors' say about them being clever. Are these sea folk like dolphins, then? Needing to breathe air though they dwell in water?"

"No, though they do have an affinity for the sunny shallows by reason of our mutual foes..." your mother begins to explain, going on to give a succinct account of the customs and manner of the sea folk.

To his credit Lord Celtigar listens closely, though he does look a touch sour when the manner by which the tribes are ruled is brought up. "Little wonder they were not able to gather in strength if every decision is at the mercy of the mob."

"Yet they survived against a foe as implacable as it is vicious," your mother counters. "I would call this rule-by-all worse than a good king, but better than a poor one, and I do not think the Children of the Seas could afford poor rule even for a moment."

"Well then it is good they will have His Grace to rule them soon," Lord Celtigar says lightly, though his gaze is thoughtful.

When you do introduce him to Breath Taker, still dripping with the waters of the southern seas, the Red Crab is a courteous as he might be to any priest or scholar, not that the old Triton is paying more than a modicum of attention with his eyes fixed on the horn: "An old thing that, and perilous..." Silver-scaled fingers run over old ivory. "A tool of dominion for all that swims beneath the waters is the Lord of the Depths' to command, but for such power must a great price be paid..."

"What price?" you ask, wary and intrigued all at once. To be able to not just draw out but command some of the most perilous beings to serve the Deep Ones is no small boon.

"I cannot say seeing as it is now, too much of the enchantment has been worn away by the tides of time," the priest sighs, handing the horn back to you. "It would have to be restored through the blood of the tainted, a grand working it would be."

Lord Celtigar clears his throat. "Well I can't say I object to the damned things dying, by whichever means you would care to use, but there is still the matter of the horn's worth."

How much are you willing to pay for the horn? (The sacrifice of a Deep One being of at least CR 18 is required to empower it)

[] Write in

***​

The deal done, you offer to have a mage about to undergo their Journey of Wisdom come to Claw Isle just as you had done for young Lord Blount and with even more cause. It should be one of the Dragonseed sorcerers and thus hopefully not a very noteworthy arrival, allowing them to work as an adviser or come to that a last line of defense against the uncanny. "On that note, if you have any relatives you wish to ward and who would not be under much scrutiny, they might come to learn magic in the Scholarum as well," you add.

"I have a few young cousins and nephews serving as household knights who might have the skill and the temperament for it," he replies thoughtfully. "Yet now I need only decide which of them I can afford to be without, no easy choice, though the aid you have offered makes the decision to send them easier than it would have been."

You go on to offer a chance to trade through Astral Currents offices for the goods of the Genie Realms as well as suggest the possibility of a trading expedition further afield into the realms of the Endless Ocean familiar to the Tritons as it is to Relath, though unexplored directly by you and your companions.

"It would be an honor, Your Grace," the Red Crab says, bowing low as the garnets of his cloak sparkly and glitter with the motion.

"Speaking of honor, I am also of a mind to give most of my loyal bannermen Valyrian Steel weapons and armor, though I hear you already have the former... and see you have put it to good use." With a grim smile you add, "You can look forward to a second, then, when the Dragon Banner falls upon the lands of traitors... make that another two, your heir will need it no less in such perilous times."

"Your Grace, I would say I have no words for such generosity, but as your lady mother would be quick to assure you, that would be a lie." A charming smile that one might imagine gracing the court flashes across his face. "I am never without words." His expression then grows more serious, almost grave. "Thank you, Your Grace, for being here."

You leave Claw Isle satisfied that the island is in good hands, though as evening begins to fall over the Deep another matter looms, one you had been considering since you have first revealed Heaven's fate to Zherys a month ago. Who else among your vassals should be trusted with the knowledge and how to present it?

Who do you invite to the gathering to speak of the Sundering and how do you approach the matter?

[] Write in

OOC: I did not want to just stop at the horn again since it would have been retreading the last vote so here we are, at the conference. It's just this and a few more reports until the closing of the month.
 
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How much are you willing to pay for the horn (The sacrifice of a Deep One being of at least CR 18 is required to empower it)

[] Write in
...We don't have one.
Like, seriously, we don't have anyone to sacrifice of this strength, and if dice is merciful, won't have for a while.

The only few Aberrations we have are slated to empower Well of Souls.


That aside...
Well, I have no idea how to approach the meeting.

@everyone, I think we should be kindacareful in whom we tell about this for now.
> Inquisitors already know.
> So do the companions and Outsiders.
> However, Scholarum had been taught wrong things all this time, and we have to deal with the morale hit revealing that would be, somehow.
> And less powerful people than Zherys among our Governors maaaaay just get depressed, and we don't want that, I think.
 
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