You are trying to explain feelings and trauma with logic while forgetting it is not logical.

Trauma doesnt go away after being explained that the circumstances for it to trigger dont require it. They still freak out regaurdless.

The similarities are enough that it is likely to cause problems in the mental and emotional health of our soldiers and thus is not worth it when a very good alternative is present. Dog tags hardened and engraved with their name, legion, rank, and so on seems much better than triggering traumatic memories.

It is a simple matter of "Is having all our troops marked worth triggering their own trauma and possibly interfering with their effectiveness worth it when there is an alternative that would work better available?"

EDIT:
And again, this really seems like a big exaggeration to me.
I tried explaining that earlier but for some reason he seems really insistent on having all our soldier given a tattoo that says their rank and legion.... even though it risks triggering existing trauma and doesnt make much sense as they can be transferred and they can rise in rank making the tattoos need to be overwritten as tattoo removal doesnt exist yet.
No, I'm just standing my ground. Look back at what I said. I only mused on it, it was never an actual proposal. Going "so and so would be great" does not constitute a demand.
I don't have a problem with a the legion developing a culture around tattoos, but I do have an issue with what @Duesal is suggesting, which are specifically mandatory tattoos with name, rank and the mark of the Legion.
You get to worry if I put it forth in a vote, which I haven't.
 
Also, the idea of "dog tags" aren't necessarily bad things, but the U.S military for instance doesn't insist we tattoo that information on every soldier.

@Duesal We could have every Leionnaire carry a pair of Valyrian Steel tags on a fabricated steel chain with clasps that can readily be tugged off for collection.
 
Sorry, misread your post as agreeing with his proposal.

@Duesal, I don't really care about 'trauma,' but I do care about how this would look to the many freed slaves in our kingdom. A lot of them are going to see "mandatory tattoos" and think "slave brands" and it is vital that our Legion continue to be seen as freemen.
Yeah, this I disagree with. This perception, @lockingbane, is why I'm arguing against you, not a need on my part to tattoo the legionnaires.

The Legion has struck the chains off of every slave they've come across. The mere act of using tattoos shouldn't be a blow to its image at all, especially after the propaganda gets up and running.
Also, the idea of "dog tags" aren't necessarily bad things, but the U.S military for instance doesn't insist we tattoo that information on every soldier.

@Duesal We could have every Leionnaire carry a pair of Valyrian Steel tags on a fabricated steel chain with clasps that can readily be tugged off for collection.
I assumed we already had dogtags. Those will be necessary for identification for anyone unlucky enough to be murdered by the Frost Dragons when they fly out.
 
Yeah, this I disagree with. This perception, @lockingbane, is why I'm arguing against you, not a need on my part to tattoo the legionnaires.

The Legion has struck the chains off of every slave they've come across. The mere act of using tattoos shouldn't be a blow to its image at all, especially after the propaganda gets up and running.

I assumed we already had dogtags. Those will be necessary for identification for anyone unlucky enough to be murdered by the Frost Dragons when they fly out.

OOF... fuck me, we are going to have to build a Vietnam style memorial for "Forgotten Soldiers", aren't we?
 
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OOF... fuck me, we are going to have to build a Viet Nam style memorial for "Forgotten Soldiers", aren't we?
We'll need to have each legionnaire write short summaries of who they are, where they're from, who their family is, etc. Without that letting their next of kin know they lost someone is going to be impossible.
 
OOF... fuck me, we are going to have to build a Viet Nam style memorial for "Forgotten Soldiers", aren't we?
Now I'm imagining the kind of damage that would do to the families involved. Imagine having your father or mother just... disappear. You have their things, their journal, maybe even a portrait but you don't know who that person is. Sounds like a recipe for a great horror short story.
 
We'll need to have each legionnaire write short summaries of who they are, where they're from, who their family is, etc. Without that letting their next of kin know they lost someone is going to be impossible.
They already do, most likely. We need that information so we know where to send money after our soldiers die. We do do that, right? Take care of the Legion's widows?
 
Now I'm imagining the kind of damage that would do to the families involved. Imagine having your father or mother just... disappear. You have their things, their journal, maybe even a portrait but you don't know who that person is. Sounds like a recipe for a great horror short story.
I've had quite a few nightmares about losing a Companion to the Frost Dragons.

I pray to our resident spiderfish abomination it never comes to pass.
They already do, most likely. We need that information so we know where to send money after our soldiers die. We do do that, right? Take care of the Legion's widows?
It should definitely be one of the policies, yes. Azel was explicitly generous with the pay for this reason, makes for excellent propaganda.
 
We'll need to have each legionnaire write short summaries of who they are, where they're from, who their family is, etc. Without that letting their next of kin know they lost someone is going to be impossible.
I know we have a central registry for all that information, or it'd be impossible to track pay and next of kin concerns. The only question is if that information is destroyed along with the body.

I'm assuming not, but people wouldn't have a clue as why there's no other record for this soldier existing.

My suggestion would be to link a trigger item to that person using blood, them regularly interacting with it once a year at a designated location. If they don't touch the stone in that time-frame, it sends out an alert indicating that a soldier was officially MIA, KIA or Erased. MIA or KIA gets filed normally, Erasure usually results in some sort of posthumous acknowledgement, including an Order of the Burning Star.

I thought about some smaller honor, but I feel some posthumous knighthoods for people who can't even be resurrected barring Unchain Miracles wouldn't cause any large imbalance.
 
I know we have a central registry for all that information, or it'd be impossible to track pay and next of kin concerns. The only question is if that information is destroyed along with the body.

I'm assuming not, but people wouldn't have a clue as why there's no other record for this soldier existing.

My suggestion would be to link a trigger item to that person using blood, them regularly interacting with it once a year at a designated location. If they don't touch the stone in that time-frame, it sends out an alert indicating that a soldier was officially MIA, KIA or Erased. MIA or KIA gets filed normally, Erasure usually results in some sort of posthumous acknowledgement, including an Order of the Burning Star.

I thought about some smaller honor, but I feel some posthumous knighthoods for people who can't even be resurrected barring Unchain Miracles wouldn't cause any large imbalance.
I think memories are the only thing that gets erased. The person's possessions are untouched, and records of them are untouched. A combination of dogtags, the central registry, and whatever summary of themselves the legionnaire has written should all work well for keeping a record of them should they be unlucky enough to be erased.
 
I thought about some smaller honor, but I feel some posthumous knighthoods for people who can't even be resurrected barring Unchain Miracles wouldn't cause any large imbalance.

And on that note, wouldn't it be interesting story, a Legionnaire gets erased by a Frost Dragon strafing his unit, and, years down the road, his son only has the Memorial Wall with a name he doesn't remember and his father's Burning Star to track the fact he ever had one, to remember him by.
 
I know we have a central registry for all that information, or it'd be impossible to track pay and next of kin concerns. The only question is if that information is destroyed along with the body.

I'm assuming not, but people wouldn't have a clue as why there's no other record for this soldier existing.

My suggestion would be to link a trigger item to that person using blood, them regularly interacting with it once a year at a designated location. If they don't touch the stone in that time-frame, it sends out an alert indicating that a soldier was officially MIA, KIA or Erased. MIA or KIA gets filed normally, Erasure usually results in some sort of posthumous acknowledgement, including an Order of the Burning Star.

I thought about some smaller honor, but I feel some posthumous knighthoods for people who can't even be resurrected barring Unchain Miracles wouldn't cause any large imbalance.
Frost dragons don't destroy records, just memories. I just checked the PDF.

We came up through the Braavosi Underworld, so yes we have implemented the practices the Mob got right :p
/Godfather "But their families were taken care of." /Godfather
 
And on that note, wouldn't it be interesting story, a Legionnaire gets erased by a Frost Dragon strafing his unit, and, years down the road, his son only has the Memorial Wall with a name he doesn't remember and his father's Burning Star to track the fact he ever had one, to remember him by.
An Unchained Miracle might be the only thing capable of even coming close to bringing them back, but our gods are incredibly mercantile. Maybe Yss could strike a bargain for visions of what was lost. I can see the children of the lost legionnaires paying that price.
 
Goddamn Frost Dragons.

We all know that scene in the movies, where the military has to break the news to the family.

Officers on the Mother/Widows porch dreading the moment when that slight confusion in their eyes turns into sorrowful understanding and being haunted by their expression.

Now imagine that same scene dragging out for hours, trying to break through the confusion in the same person and hoping desperately to see a sliver of sadness in their eyes so at the very least they know they've lost someone.

For these men, the thing that haunts them is that the confusion never leaves their eyes.
The worst times aren't the screams of anguish following them down the street, it's the friendly wave and genuine smile of someone who doesn't know what they're missing.
 
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An Unchained Miracle might be the only thing capable of even coming close to bringing them back, but our gods are incredibly mercantile. Maybe Yss could strike a bargain for visions of what was lost. I can see the children of the lost legionnaires paying that price.
That would be a great adventurer motivation, actually! To grow powerful enough or favoed enough to restore your memories of your father or mother.
 
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Goddamn Frost Dragons.

We all know that scene in the movies, where the military has to break the news to the family.

Officers on the Mother/Widows porch dreading the moment when that slight confusion in their eyes turns into sorrowful understanding and being haunted by their expression.

Now imagine that same scene dragging out for hours, trying to break through the confusion in the same person and hoping desperately to see a sliver of sadness in their eyes so at the very least they know they've lost someone.

For these men, the thing that haunts them is that the confusion never leaves their eyes.
The worst times aren't the screams of anguish following them down the street, it's the friendly wave and genuine smile of someone who doesn't know what they're missing.
Nah, it's worse than that. Think about how much you think about your family every day, about how your life is shaped to fit with theirs. Now imagine all of those associations "I bought this because he liked it" "that was his favorite rocking chair" etc. just don't exist. You'd be constantly falling into those kinds of holes where you can't remember why you did something or what happened. It would fucking terrifying.
 
Yeah, this I disagree with. This perception, @lockingbane, is why I'm arguing against you, not a need on my part to tattoo the legionnaires.

The Legion has struck the chains off of every slave they've come across. The mere act of using tattoos shouldn't be a blow to its image at all, especially after the propaganda gets up and running
Again it isnt about what they have DONE but how it LOOKS.

There is actually a very big dissonance there and it has been exploited for a long time.


For example, did you know at one point in time due to the lack of law enforcement a group made up of predominantly african american men and women formed a group to act as a temporary police force to keep their hometown safe? They did so and did so very well, nothing really bad happened and they rediced crime in the absense of the law by an incredible amount.... then they qere declared a dangerous and armed gang and were all arrested by swat that was flown in and dragged off and were sentenced for seriosu jailtime.


What they DID was reduce crime and protect their town while law enforcement was unable to do so.

But it LOOKED like a dangerous gang had taken over the town and they all suffered for it.



Appearances matter quite a bit, often eclipsing the truth of the matter.
 
Goddamn Frost Dragons.

We all know that scene in the movies, where the military has to break the news to the family.

Officers on the Mother/Widows porch dreading the moment when that slight confusion in their eyes turns into sorrowful understanding and being haunted by their expression.

Now imagine that same scene dragging out for hours, trying to break through the confusion in the same person and hoping desperately to see a sliver of sadness in their eyes so at the very least they know they've lost someone.

For these men, the thing that haunts them is that the confusion never leaves their eyes.
The worst times aren't the screams of anguish following them down the street, it's the friendly wave and genuine smile of someone who doesn't know what they're missing.
Maybe it would help to have tiny portraits for each legionnaire. I believe there is relatively cheap magic to make this, one that you found no less.

A portrait of the legionnaire with whatever relatives they've got, commissioned by the state on their initiation day, a copy for both the legionnaire and their family.

That should help, if only a little.
 
Again it isnt about what they have DONE but how it LOOKS.

There is actually a very big dissonance there and it has been exploited for a long time.


For example, did you know at one point in time due to the lack of law enforcement a group made up of predominantly african american men and women formed a group to act as a temporary police force to keep their hometown safe? They did so and did so very well, nothing really bad happened and they rediced crime in the absense of the law by an incredible amount.... then they qere declared a dangerous and armed gang and were all arrested by swat that was flown in and dragged off and were sentenced for seriosu jailtime.


What they DID was reduce crime and protect their town while law enforcement was unable to do so.

But it LOOKED like a dangerous gang had taken over the town and they all suffered for it.



Appearances matter quite a bit, often eclipsing the truth of the matter.
Your example doesn't really work because policing in America is really fucking racist, so appearances matter less than skin color, unfortunately.

Regardless, let's save this argument for when it comes up for a vote, okay?
 
Nah, it's worse than that. Think about how much you think about your family every day, about how your life is shaped to fit with theirs. Now imagine all of those associations "I bought this because he liked it" "that was his favorite rocking chair" etc. just don't exist. You'd be constantly falling into those kinds of holes where you can't remember why you did something or what happened. It would fucking terrifying.

I wasn't even going to go near what a friend or family member would go through.

I've had a family member suffer from Alzheimer's/Dementia and I can't even begin to grasp the full impact.
 
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