Tldr it's basically the same way I view Asmodeus right now. We don't need to seek out a fight with Lucan, I'm just confident that he will seek out a fight with us. We're running on fundamentally different ideologies, and he genuinely views us as a dire threat to his religion. And he really isn't wrong.
 
As for the Sealord's brother, there's really not much to say there. A succubus killed the man. If the Sealord wants we can always just resurrect him. Given the resources he has access to at this stage there might be a reason he hasn't already paid for it.
I have to disagree on this, it's because there is not much to say that we should talk to him about it.
He is one of our closest allies and we lied to him about the death of his brother, even pretended he was alive for a few more days so suspicion did not fall on us, we were justified of course, but now that he has sworn himself to us there is no reason to keep it hidden anymore, tell him and even offer to bring him back if he so desires (it still falls under the cheaper version of resurrection right?).
This is the kind of thing people look back on and say "If only they had communicated nothing of this would have happened", it is a chink on our relationship with Braavos, a small easily corrected chink, but a chink nonetheless, someone could use that knowledge to manipulate him, after all, if we lied about something so small yet so close to his heart, what else could we have lied about?.
Also, i am slightly worried about him asking us to bring him back, which would make things very awkward when he tells a different story about his death.
In short, it cost us nothing to have a small talk and make sure it does not come back to bite us later.
 
2. Not true, dude. There is one instance where we return the crown to them, and that's if we get them to swear fealty to us. They are a distraction we simply don't need, and while we won't shy away from war with them it'd also be great if they simply joined us.
Not sure that works.

Can they swear fealty in a manner that their King would be bound to, when he wakes up once we give them the crown?
Because if not, we have a god-tier independant power in the heart of our realm.
 
if we get them to swear fealty to us
Which is highly unlikely to happen.
Orphne, being a much, much smaller court, took years of positive relationship, and promise of particularly bright future within our Empire - on top of having been effectively territorialy annexed with Braavos swearing to us.
And that's on top of them having a King already - and being stuck-up bastard with overweight feeling of self-importance (remember how Orphne couldn't have been seen as dealing from a position of lesser power, even when he objectively was?).

Yes, them swearing would be the best case scenario, but I don't think we can count on that in any way.

They've got... three dragons, IIRC. Three dragons, the resources of the Golden Shields, whatever Lanna Lannister manages to loot, etc
Like I said, they are manageable if we are efficient - I just really don't want to get bogged down in all the shit (read: mercs, maybe Devils/Demons if Tywin starts getting particularly desperate - albeit that has 50-70% chances of Lana shanking him herself) they can probably throw at us given a chance - not because they are that dangerous, but because we have bigger enemies than them to worry about.

I honestly think the best way to stop it is preemptive, it's how bloodraven decided to do it. These guys went from wandering around in the woods to wielding mind blank rings and converting lords to their cause in a fairly short period of time. As far as I can tell the seven need mortal hands to reach into this world. We can solve this by killing anyone with an actual connection to them, leaving the faith under the control of dozens of conflicting heresies and corrupt septons. Every moment a strong mortal of theirs exists is another moment they have to establish themselves. I get that some of them are nice, but we're falling for a gimmick; they're supposed to be nice and make you hesitant to fight them. They even mean in sometimes, but that doesn't mean they aren't committed to fighting us. It's like we're in a sword fight and are trying to wield a blade while it's still in our opponents hand; The only thing it'll get us is cut up. If we want to use them we need to know everything they can do and have a plan to manage it, not just keep going easy on them until they hopefully flip. Danelle is the one most of the thread likes and she still reluctantly went along with the kingkiller stuff. That's what "good" opponents are like; if you aren't a monster they'll regret killing you, but they'll still do it. While we are working with them we need to keep our own interests at the forefront of our plans, even if we hide it from them.

Multiple reasons; the seven are fighting with the old gods and we are sworn to see them humbled. A task we have actively advanced through all kinds of mechanisms. They also want to be the sole magical force on the plane, in addition to being the only "true" gods, and (their faith at least) wants significant political power. We want none of that, so we have to fight it out.
Kinda too late for that now, after how Conclave has ended - even though I agree with the statements here - we entered an agreement to not fuck with each-other, and they are free to grow in strenght now (with very minor good for us in said agreement).
If they have even half of a brain (and they seem to), Lucan and Stranger's chosen will now gather forces, as much as they can, and seed as much agents (be it angels or anti-blood-magic preachers) as they could.
All we could do, is to try to turn the few that will pop up -now that Bloodraven isn't actively killing them off - to our side.
 
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Not sure that works.

Can they swear fealty in a manner that their King would be bound to, when he wakes up once we give them the crown?
Because if not, we have a god-tier independant power in the heart of our realm.
I'm pretty sure it works. If we get the queen and the entire court to swear, the king won't have any choice but to follow. Either way, we have plenty of resources to make sure it'll work -- we have all the lore of the Old Gods and the Orphne Court at our disposal.
Which is highly unlikely to happen.
Orphne, being a much, much smaller court, took years of positive relationship, and promise of particularly bright future within our Empire - on top of having been effectively territorialy annexed with Braavos swearing to us.
And that's on top of them having a King already - and being stuck-up bastard with overweight feeling of self-importance (remember how Orphne couldn't have been seen as dealing from a position of lesser power, even when he objectively was?).

Yes, them swearing would be the best case scenario, but I don't think we can count on that in any way.
We can't count on it, no. What I'm saying is you shouldn't be putting it down as a certainty that we can't do it, that's a surefire path to failure.
 
Not sure that works.

Can they swear fealty in a manner that their King would be bound to, when he wakes up once we give them the crown?
Because if not, we have a god-tier independant power in the heart of our realm.

He's sort of "sleeping", so we could probably communicate with them well enough to extract an oath once provided sufficient persuasion that he should do so (all of his court being 'amenable' if not outright eager to agree depending on who we're talking about).

Plenty of Fey who will sell out their neighbor to get ahead.
 
Tldr it's basically the same way I view Asmodeus right now. We don't need to seek out a fight with Lucan, I'm just confident that he will seek out a fight with us. We're running on fundamentally different ideologies, and he genuinely views us as a dire threat to his religion. And he really isn't wrong.
There's also the fact that the Father is basically the God of feudalism and we want completely overhaul governance in Westeros into a more modern/Braavosi-inspired shape. Freedom of religion, capitalism, rights and all that good stuff.

Others of the Seven maybe able to detach from this, but the Father is probably completely stuck due to his association with Lordly power and legitimacy.
 
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Lucan is the worst sort of foe to try and convert; A principled man. Shall not expound further on why we are in contention, was touched on in a fine manner already. Instead, will highlight a notion. He is Chosen. Any actions taken are righteous and good and proper. Any defiance is against the will of his gods. What else could such be, when he is directly empowered?

While I'd love to have such under the banner, being a powerful mage and all, it is probably not going to happen. Still, an agreement holds as of now and the more time passes the better our position gets through shaping his religion. Let such make any opening moves, have the onus of breaking pacts.
 
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I honestly think the best way to stop it is preemptive, it's how bloodraven decided to do it. These guys went from wandering around in the woods to wielding mind blank rings and converting lords to their cause in a fairly short period of time. As far as I can tell the seven need mortal hands to reach into this world. We can solve this by killing anyone with an actual connection to them, leaving the faith under the control of dozens of conflicting heresies and corrupt septons. Every moment a strong mortal of theirs exists is another moment they have to establish themselves. I get that some of them are nice, but we're falling for a gimmick; they're supposed to be nice and make you hesitant to fight them. They even mean in sometimes, but that doesn't mean they aren't committed to fighting us. It's like we're in a sword fight and are trying to wield a blade while it's still in our opponents hand; The only thing it'll get us is cut up. If we want to use them we need to know everything they can do and have a plan to manage it, not just keep going easy on them until they hopefully flip. Danelle is the one most of the thread likes and she still reluctantly went along with the kingkiller stuff. That's what "good" opponents are like; if you aren't a monster they'll regret killing you, but they'll still do it. While we are working with them we need to keep our own interests at the forefront of our plans, even if we hide it from them.

Multiple reasons; the seven are fighting with the old gods and we are sworn to see them humbled. A task we have actively advanced through all kinds of mechanisms. They also want to be the sole magical force on the plane, in addition to being the only "true" gods, and (their faith at least) wants significant political power. We want none of that, so we have to fight it out.
Who hurt you?

Can you show me on this doll where the seven touched you :sad:.
 
There's also the fact that the Father is basically the God of feudalism and we want completely overhaul governance in Westeros into a more modern/Braavosi-inspired shape. Freedom of religion, capitalism, rights and all that good stuff.

Others of the Seven maybe able to detach from this, but the Father is probably completely stuck due to his association with Lordly power and legitimacy.

It's kind of a autocratic constitutional monarchy which is right leaning in some ways, but with progressive tendencies in some areas, social policies being one of them.
 
2) Court of Stars (massive, massive force if they see us as existential danger - under no circumstances will we return them their crown however, so we might as well be).

Shit we forgot to ask Bloodraven what would happen if we use the crown to curse them into oblivion. Also @Duesal wouldn't give the fey the crown grant them metaphysical control over all the Reach?

Edit: I mean those guys want the Reach as fairyland and wouldn't the crown help one that forward?
 
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Shit we forgot to ask Bloodraven what would happen if we use the crown to curse them into oblivion. Also @Duesal wouldn't give the fey the crown grant them metaphysical control over all the Reach?
No, it won't. What it will do is let the king wake up. Our goal here is to make sure that the king and the court are bound to Viserys and the Imperium when that happens.

If negotiations go badly and they decide to go "fuck it" and just wage war on us, they'll probably accelerate their plans to turn the Reach into Feywild 2.0.
 
I does kind of seem that we got royaly screwed over in that deal. They don't have there chosen killed, all of there hard work destroy if they get to dangerous, and are able to build up in pease with out boodraven shanking all of there effort. We got one front semi-closed so we can focus on the world ending threats. All the while said semi-closes front gets even more dandrous as time goes on, and we are trying to stomp out all of the wild fire form burning the world to cinders, are haveing the long night Rain down and freeze the world, and the rest of the planes.
 
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No, it won't. What it will do is let the king wake up. Our goal here is to make sure that the king and the court are bound to Viserys and the Imperium when that happens.

If negotiations go badly and they decide to go "fuck it" and just wage war on us, they'll probably accelerate their plans to turn the Reach into Feywild 2.0.

I think at this point we just need to make it so that the Fey are more inclined to see the Imperium as a source of authority. That way we can stop their feywilding...as much as I want to do the opposite and burn them alive. Propaganda time I say.

Edit: Why am I only remembering all the questions we need to ask Bloodraven now?
 
I think at this point we just need to make it so that the Fey are more inclined to see the Imperium as a source of authority. That way we can stop their feywilding...as much as I want to do the opposite and burn them alive. Propaganda time I say.

Edit: Why am I only remembering all the questions we need to ask Bloodraven now?
What we really need is to figure out how to achieve a compromise. IIRC they want the ability to make deals with mortals, and we need to restrict those deals to make sure they aren't harmful -- anything less is a betrayal of our citizens who we swore to protect. We need to find a balance that they can accept. Beyond that there is a lot we can offer.

1. Sanctuary in the Imperium
2. As vassals they get protection just like anyone else
3. Access to the resources of the Imperium, including the Scholarum, or trade with the Djinn and the Shaitan via Sorcerer's Deep
4. Authority as governors of their own regions

Etc. You get the idea. We might be able to start small and request they send a diplomat -- a friendlier one this time -- not invested with the authority to make decisions on behalf of the Court of Stars but still able to communicate their desires. We really need to get them to the table to start negotiating, or we'll be dancing around them for ages.
 
Shit we forgot to ask Bloodraven what would happen if we use the crown to curse them into oblivion. Also @Duesal wouldn't give the fey the crown grant them metaphysical control over all the Reach?
Technically, if the Crown title becomes de jure subject to our own Crown, we'd become their overlord. Not sure if we can dictate new territorial bounds, but I don't see why not?
 
What we really need is to figure out how to achieve a compromise. IIRC they want the ability to make deals with mortals, and we need to restrict those deals to make sure they aren't harmful -- anything less is a betrayal of our citizens who we swore to protect. We need to find a balance that they can accept. Beyond that there is a lot we can offer.

Maybe a registry of all fey deals that have been made? That way we can administer and see what contracts are and aren't harmful. And the ability to remove the ones that are harmful. That way we can see all deals made and make sure nothing dangerous is happening.
 
I does kind of seem that we got royaly screwed over in that deal. They don't have there chosen killed, all of there hard work destroy if they get to dangerous, and are able to build up in pease with out boodraven shanking all of there effort. We got one front semi-closed so we can focus on the world ending threats. All the while said semi-closes front gets even more dandrous as time goes on, and we are trying to stomp out all of the wild fire form burning the world to cinders, are haveing the long night Rain down and freeze the world, and the rest of the planes.
Yes, implicitly, they think we're guilty. That's the point of conflict, and what we're going to press them over so that both sides are actually satisfied with each other's projected future behavior. If they're just milking this ceasefire to get stronger and not actually trying to determine if peace is possible, which we will press them on at some point, we call off the ceasefire. Because otherwise such a temporary pause in fighting doesn't benefit us at all.
 
What we really need is to figure out how to achieve a compromise. IIRC they want the ability to make deals with mortals, and we need to restrict those deals to make sure they aren't harmful -- anything less is a betrayal of our citizens who we swore to protect. We need to find a balance that they can accept. Beyond that there is a lot we can offer.

1. Sanctuary in the Imperium
2. As vassals they get protection just like anyone else
3. Access to the resources of the Imperium, including the Scholarum, or trade with the Djinn and the Shaitan via Sorcerer's Deep
4. Authority as governors of their own regions

Etc. You get the idea. We might be able to start small and request they send a diplomat -- a friendlier one this time -- not invested with the authority to make decisions on behalf of the Court of Stars but still able to communicate their desires. We really need to get them to the table to start negotiating, or we'll be dancing around them for ages.
Simply mandating that pacts follow Imperial Law in terms of not coercing people into effective slavery, and then making it necessary to have a Solicitor or the Crown act as a mediating intermediary in any such pact sealing would go a long way.
 
Technically, if the Crown title becomes de jure subject to our own Crown, we'd become their overlord. Not sure if we can dictate new territorial bounds, but I don't see why not?

I dont see why we can't dictate new territorial bounds. If we are their overlord then it is our right, by laws of the realms, to divide the lands as we please.
 
Maybe a registry of all fey deals that have been made? That way we can administer and see what contracts are and aren't harmful. And the ability to remove the ones that are harmful. That way we can see all deals made and make sure nothing dangerous is happening.
That could work, but bottomline we need to get a diplomat in front of us IC, because right now all we have is a few vague answers from DP OOC.
Simply mandating that pacts follow Imperial Law in terms of not coercing people into effective slavery, and then making it necessary to have a Solicitor or the Crown act as a mediating intermediary in any such pact sealing would go a long way.
Indeed, that'll solve a lot of problems. The issue was, IIRC, that the fey are little shits who might refuse what's by all accounts a reasonable demand on our part, so we're sitting here scratching our heads figuring out how to spin our demand to make them just take the deal.
 
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