- Location
- United States
Yep. Perfect storm for pegasi. We have the spells to find them within a day, Vee is conveniently free, and we have one or two more days before the Azure Emperor has an audience with us.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
He is indeed being a lot more wary than usual, the conclave left him in a position he has not been in before, haveing to change his plans on the fly with a threadbare armistice of uncertain duration. He is not sure where he stands with them so erring more on the side of caution.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Yeah but an enemy that's not going to go for heavy collateral damage, is preferable to an enemy that will do so, the Chosen grow more powerful than the enemies they defeat, but they don't grow nearly as dangerous to all we hold dear, if we lose a fight to the Illithids, our people will become livestock to be consumed, if we lose a battle to the Chosen, then at absolute worst we stay dead, and in all likelihood not even that will happen, and we will just be forced to cut an unfavorable deal with them to get revived, which while bad, is no where near what happen if we lose to any of the really bad enemies.
We would have to have different deals negotiated, but them swearing fealty isn't the only possibility, getting an agreement, that their members will follow our laws while visiting our lands, and an agreement, that any Fey that want something more than the occasional visit must swear fealty to us as well as the Fey king, maybe with an agreement, that they are obligated to stay neutral in disagreement between us and the Fey king.
Placing heavy restrictions on them is indeed reasonable, it's asking the Fey king to become our vassal that's unreasonable, that's essentially like demanding the Shaitan Sultana swear fealty to us.
We are in no way lacking for opportunities for loot and EXP, there's a million opportunities we aren't taking for every one we do, so if they weren't keeping a lid on things, it would just mean, we would have to do a lot of inconvenient cleanup with suboptimal loot.
If we want more opportunities for loot, we can raid the Efreeti, we can offer to help in the Githzerai's campaigns against the Illithids in Broken Elysium, and a lot of other things, all of which will get us both loot EXP and goodwill with our allies, whereas putting down problems in Westeros only get us Loot and EXP, not brownie points with our allies.
- Location
- ?????????
Oh okay context. You meant in the sense of losing. Well let's avoid losing because while it would be worse grandly. It would still be ash in the mouth to deal with Lucan after a loss. On a personal level anyway.
Just a note here, in terms of personal power that is a fair comparison, but the CoS are much more intimately conected to the world of men than the Shaitan. After all they are trying to rule over a portion of the mortal world, asking for fealty would be nothing more or less than inverting their own plans.
- Location
- United States
It's not the only possibility, but it's the most beneficial for us, so it's the one we're pursuing.
It really, really isn't. The Shaitan are allies, are preoccupied with the Efreeti, and have no intention of encroaching in Prime Material for the foreseeable future. The Court of Stars is already actively encroaching on Prime Material and threatens to convert a huge chunk of it into Feywild 2.0. Also their king is asleep so they're at a disadvantage. The situation is completely different both politically and in terms of the power disparity.
Ha.Who hurt you?
Can you show me on this doll where the seven touched you.
Its not so much the seven in particular I take issue with as it is the policy of treating our enemies like baseball cards, especially when there is very little in the way of leverage to flip them. It's nice to get a new tool and all, but if the effort involved to get it is more than the thing itself is worth than the actions taken to get it are a waste. It's especially confusing when we're offering ridiculous deals for basically nothing because the chosen will sigh after stabbing us. The only thing we got out of the conclave was a truce that benefits our opponents more than us, and their agreement to fight the fey marriage in the reach. We didn't need the truce as much as they did and could have gotten their support on killing the fey marriage proposal by telling what it would cause. They don't want a fey reach anymore than we do.
We wouldn't pull this kind of stuff with the fey directly, or any of big red's devils, even though they all essentially want the same thing; enough time to build up power to take us out while using us to suppress or kill their rivals. They are weak now, so the seven aren't the same scale of threat, but won't always be. We can't change our position now but we can do the same thing they are in reverse; scoping them out, finding details and weaknesses, and setting up systems to remove them one way or the other when we go back to open conflict.
I know some parts of the thread scoff at comparing the seven to devils, but does their endgame really matter that much to us when both parties want to walk over our dead body to reach it? I acknowledge the difference in desires, but I don't think how nice they'll be after burying us should give them more leeway to pursue it. We should be treating them as seriously as all of out other up and coming enemies, and taking steps to win in the long run as much as we practically can without losing in the short term. They seem to be warming up to us a little per the last update, but for the good aligned that doesn't mean they won't "do what has to be done". Maybe we can flip them, maybe we can't; until it's clear one way or the other it's dangerous to give them enough rope to hang us with.
Edit: fixed formatting
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- Location
- Germany
Could you try to leave some space between paragraphs?
This wall of text is hard to read.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Sharing ground isn't something we're required to do, and if we did do so, we would be wiser to do so with allies instead of enemies.
You never do seem to acknowledge that, so I'm going to drop this line of conversation.
- Location
- United States
@DragonParadox, quick question about Miracle -- are there any research projects that could be accelerated by it? For example, could a Miracle break through the Tome of Abraxas (after a bit of divination to confirm it won't try to murder us)?
For example, I remember you saying that Miracle could have been used to immediately free Ysandrix had we had the spell at the time.
For example, I remember you saying that Miracle could have been used to immediately free Ysandrix had we had the spell at the time.
It could but it would be a coin flip as to whether it opens the book or incinerates it, a miracle used like that is a pretty blunt instrument. The same goes in general for research, miracle and wishcraft in general is the quick and dirty solution.
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- Location
- United States
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Yes it would, but if we assume we are winning, then it don't really matter that they grow stronger, as neither Lucan or Danelle are inclined to collateral damage, so if they should decide that swearing to us is unacceptable, they are very unlikely not to agree to settle things though small party combat, which means it will basically be a duel, between their high level PCs and ours, which mean if we win we have lost no more than if they were weaker, and if we lose, it's much better that it's them that gathered that kind of power, instead of our other enemies.
I don't expect to lose to them at all, but we don't need to plan for winning against them, as if we win then that's that, therefore the only eventuality we should plan for in regards to them, is the consequences of the unlikely outcome that's our loss.
With most of our other enemies, we also have to consider the collateral damage of our win, but the Chosen want to avoid collateral damage as much as we do.
Yeah but asking for full out Fealty right away, seem like it's not going to work to me, they want the crown, but probably not enough to give up the sovereignty of their whole country, now getting a deal, that all Fey that want titles in the mortal world must swear Fealty seem more doable, that mean they all have a choice, they can stay in the Feywild and be bound only to their court, or they can enter the mortal world, and become dual citizens of the Court of Stars and the Imperium.
- Location
- florida
If they had ever started a fight with us... Or even displayed any desire too, as anything other than an absolute last resort it would be a lot easier to take this seriously.
Also yes, not my best attempt at humor. This is about as much fun as stabbing myself with a corkscrew though.
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This is a matter of tactics, which is of course for you guys to discuss, I was just concerned with the comparison itself.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
People here tend to appreciate double spacing every five sentences or so in general discussion as far as paragraphs go. Also it helps if you try to address points more succinctly unless you're trying to create a hypothetical scenario or explain something, I know people tend to skim what I write if I start rambling too much, and people quote me directly from the same posts often enough.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Yeah my comparison was mainly meant, to point out that the Court of Star, is in power more similar to our major Interplanar allies, than it is to the power of the various Planetosi nations, so I think full fealty from the whole Court is aiming a little too high at least initially, a more doable deal, would be all their Fey operating in our realm, swearing dual fealty to us and the Court of Stars, with the understanding that they're sworn to us in Planetosi matters, and to them in Feywild matters.
- Location
- United States
Yeah, no. Dual fealty is something I'm never supporting. I'm definitely on Crake's side there.
- Location
- ?????????
Okay so clearly we need to find out the things we want from them. So make a list.
What I want from Lucan and the Seven are as follows:
1. Payment for the Old Gods to satiate them
2. Their oath that they will follow the laws of our land
3. The submission of all lore that the temples collect to be given over (Concides with 1. We need this dealt with in our empire soon)
4. The restriction of forces to temple guards only (as with every other religion) (Also coincides with 1)
Anything else?
What I want from Lucan and the Seven are as follows:
1. Payment for the Old Gods to satiate them
2. Their oath that they will follow the laws of our land
3. The submission of all lore that the temples collect to be given over (Concides with 1. We need this dealt with in our empire soon)
4. The restriction of forces to temple guards only (as with every other religion) (Also coincides with 1)
Anything else?
- Location
- United States
Funnily enough the problems will come up with number two. They will have the biggest problem with our casual blood magic. Hopefully they're able to see past it, but I've got my doubts.
- Location
- Germany
Divided Loyalties is back, just updated, if anyone is interested.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
The dual fealty would basically be, that we get to command them when they're in the mortal world, the Court of stars get to command them in the Feywild, so there wouldn't be conflicts of interest, the way Fey are bound by their oaths, mean that unless we decided to send the ones sworn to us on missions in the Feywild, the fact that they are sworn to us in the material world, mean that only if we enter the Feywild, can they break their oaths.
That may also be a bit of an overstatement, the Fey King may be as strong as the Sultana (perhaps stronger since he is much older) but the fey themselves are exiles only now reestablishing themselves in a changed world, quite far from the Shaitan's litterally rock solid empire.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Two people can't wear the same hat, or one could argue your other hat guy said you could do it, so "take it up with them".