We really might as well tell them everything, including that we saved and recruited a psion, if not the method we used. Why? Because if they fail to recreate the very hard ritual, they will feel compelled to ask us for help saving the psions they find in the future, it's CG mentality. And that'd mean we'd get a shot at all those psions.

It'd also be a good way to drill into their skulls that yes, the phenomenal cosmic power we've accumulated does have valid uses, it's not just meant to oppress the masses or whatever it is they think we do in our spare time (joke's on them, we don't do spare time :p).

It was never about Viserys being oppressive. Lucan himself acknowledged we wouldn't intentionally try to be an unjust or cruel King, it was more that our values were not values he believed would be for the spiritual well-being of Westeros. Ultimately this is still a political issue--Gods are just up-jumped elementals elected by mob rule, and he's basically a enforcer with a proverbial crowbar. He doesn't see it like that, but not even Danelle would argue the particulars to a secular heathen.
 
Why do we keep full disclosing things while taking info from others is like prying teeth without anesthesia?

Will there ever be a time when the other party will need to disclose to us and feel the ashes on their mouth?

Because holy fuck it feels like every time Viserys talks with some chosen his Diplo score falls by 15 points.

It will feel very satisfying when these people bend the knee so hard the ground cracks.
 
Why do we keep full disclosing things while taking info from others is like prying teeth without anesthesia?

Will there ever be a time when the other party will need to disclose to us and feel the ashes on their mouth?

Because holy fuck it feels like every time Viserys talks with some chosen his Diplo score falls by 15 points.

It will feel very satisfying when these people bend the knee so hard the ground cracks.

The power disparity is the issue. We're basically Homelander, but not a psychopath. If we wanted to laser their heads off with a smile, there's nothing they could do to stop us, so they treat us like we were psychotic Homelander who needs to be treated at arms length like we're about to snap at any moment. Targaryen Madness stigma is strong.
 
Interlude DXLXX: By the Law of the Land
By the Law of the Land

Twenty-Second Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

As Ser Richard Lonmouth moved cautiously down the narrow escape tunnel he found himself envying the gold-scaled snake wizard in the fact that it did not have to duck the edges of crumbling archways and splintered girders. Up ahead the tiny light of their fey guide flickered like a firefly calling out cheerfully. "Come on, this way quick, didn't you hear that the Hunter in the Dark is looking for the spindle too? She'd lose it so bad you'll never be able to find it."

"I wonder how Dewchaser would take to being frozen to a wall," he heard Rina grumble under her breath. It looked like even her patience had its limits after all. Then again, she had been the one chasing not just trinkets and rumors of trinkets all over the city. So far they had found a quill that could not write untruths, a girdle that allowed the wearer to dance to any dance no matter how complex, and now they were chasing a spindle that spun golden thread, the stuff of children's tales turned into deadly earnest.

"Not worth it, he'd probably complain twice as loudly somehow," the knight replied, amused almost in spite of himself.

As the narrow tunnel turned a corner Oathkeeper's light shone piles of tumbled stones and dirt that barred their way. At its base a rotting arm, still sheathed in the tattered green of the palace livery, held out a small golden spindle.

"How very convenient," the naga hissed, drawing back from the sight. "Find the thief and the prize all at once, without even needing a shovel."

"It's an illusion," Rina said, her her gaze flashing with the cold silvery light of true sight. "A trap..."

Before she could say another word a black skeletal claw reached out from the wall to grasp Dewchaser in a cage of bone and shadow. "Very clever mortals," something snarled from the darkness as an emaciated demonic form slumped bonelessly in front of them. The thing was garbed in tattered skin that may have been wings, hanging upon bone ridges tipped in vicious bloodied claws. Its face was horned, four eyes like a dead man's lanterns set above a mouth with far too many teeth. This then was the Hunter in the Dark, the monster other fey feared so deeply they spoke of it only in whispers.


"This little insect defies the Hooded Lord in seeking to bring together the tokens that fate itself has scattered," the creature continued, bringing the trembling sprite closer to its slavering mouth, snapping in anticipation.

"How so?" Rina asked sharply. "The tokens we gathered were offered to the archon of Lys, a title our King now holds. Call it fate, chance, or trickery, but he has a right to them under the same pact by which the Goblin Market opens its doors."

"You do not seek to spin gold, to dance, or to write, do you?" the dark fey sneered. "No, you seek to twist and bind, to make the Market yours and the Hooded Lord your king's lackey, the old man told us. Rial, was it?" a long twisting tongue like a purple worm slithered though the thing's teeth. "He was most... accommodating."

"What did you do to him?" if the sorceress' voice had been cold before than now it crackled like ice shattering on stone.

"Learned the truth of how you bribed and beguiled so many fey, they have all met their rightful fates also..." the thing hissed.

Richard was barely listening. If I move now I might be able to cut off thing's the hand in time, but it might twitch closed anyway. If what they had heard about the Hunter was true than any fey who perished at its touch could only be restored by its lord's command. Could that command be forced?

"You are one and we are three, not petty fey that you are used to punishing. Why choose to die at your master's command?" Rina tried to reason with the thing, but to no avail.

"You would bargain, yes?" a mirthless alien laugh slithered through the air. "A better bargain I offer then. Let me fulfill my task in peace upon the treacherous fey and then I will bring you to the Hooded Lord myself and intercede to make a better bargain, no need to chase trinkets, no need to work with giggling fools..." the skeletal fist tightened.

Rina looked back towards Richard, her own choice clear in her eyes, but she did not want to make a decision for all of them. The knight answered with his sword, diving forward Oathkeeper flashing in hand.

"Fuck!" he cursed as the sword cut only empty air. The thing had been ready for it.

At least the sprite was loose again and babbling thanks, if you could call that a good thing.

The knight sighed and tried to explain, "When King Viserys brought Lys under his rule he pledged that the same law would hold over it as the rest of the realm, and that goes for everyone that lives here. Those fey that got punished didn't break the King's law, but this hunter and his lord sure as shit did, now let's go find this Hooded Lord."

"What of the spindle?" the serpent mage hissed.

"We don't need it now, this fey lord has some explanations to make to us and to the Harbinger," Rina said with chill satisfaction.

OOC: We are about 2-3 interludes from the end of this action. Hope it does not drag.
 
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The Hooded Lord? He sounds like a nice bag of XP for Rina.

Speaking of which... @DragonParadox, when is the Yi Ti XP going to be calculated? There was a lot of successful intrigue and battle there.
 
Why do we keep full disclosing things while taking info from others is like prying teeth without anesthesia?

Will there ever be a time when the other party will need to disclose to us and feel the ashes on their mouth?

Because holy fuck it feels like every time Viserys talks with some chosen his Diplo score falls by 15 points.

It will feel very satisfying when these people bend the knee so hard the ground cracks.

I imagine that part of it is that we understand that for all the moralizing they are by an large such a small(er) threat that if they can harry the other enemies we can deal with them after. Now personally I would like nothing more than to give the "Bend or Break" speech but right now we have literally a thousand better things to do and we are looking at the huge picture of "Deep Ones, Demons, Devils, Tiamat, fuck your small problems, take this info and go". Also as @Crake says, if we wanted to we could annihilate the Chosen, their armies and many of their angels in a clean fight. And that scares them to a point where they think hiding things will give them an advantage.

Of course once we are the ruler of Westeros we can just force them to come out with the information lest they break the law and this month we are also going to be spewing pro-Viserys propaganda. After all that was what was the Printing Press for.
 
I wonder what effect killing the Hooded lord will have on the fey in then region. To negotiate as he did implies he has a position of power over the other fey; depending on how that's set up we could have anything from sudden chaos as the fey previously sworn to him go back to doing whatever they like, to a smooth transition of power to an heir.

By the way, is Glya in on this mission? Fey get stronger with their stories, and especially by winning games against each other right? Having her handle stuff like this in the future might be a good way to power her up.
 
I wonder what effect killing the Hooded lord will have on the fey in then region. To negotiate as he did implies he has a position of power over the other fey; depending on how that's set up we could have anything from sudden chaos as the fey previously sworn to him go back to doing whatever they like, to a smooth transition of power to an heir.

By the way, is Glya in on this mission? Fey get stronger with their stories, and especially by winning games against each other right? Having her handle stuff like this in the future might be a good way to power her up.
Most likely scenario -- it reinforces our story and strengthens the right of the Conquerer to rule the Goblin Market. If we kill the biggest challenger, all the lesser fey will either bow or flee.
 
Why do we keep full disclosing things while taking info from others is like prying teeth without anesthesia?

Will there ever be a time when the other party will need to disclose to us and feel the ashes on their mouth?

Because holy fuck it feels like every time Viserys talks with some chosen his Diplo score falls by 15 points.

It will feel very satisfying when these people bend the knee so hard the ground cracks.
Well it does mirror what happens to the thread rather nicely doesn't it?
 
I imagine that part of it is that we understand that for all the moralizing they are by an large such a small(er) threat that if they can harry the other enemies we can deal with them after. Now personally I would like nothing more than to give the "Bend or Break" speech but right now we have literally a thousand better things to do and we are looking at the huge picture of "Deep Ones, Demons, Devils, Tiamat, fuck your small problems, take this info and go". Also as @Crake says, if we wanted to we could annihilate the Chosen, their armies and many of their angels in a clean fight. And that scares them to a point where they think hiding things will give them an advantage.

Of course once we are the ruler of Westeros we can just force them to come out with the information lest they break the law and this month we are also going to be spewing pro-Viserys propaganda. After all that was what was the Printing Press for.
You're probably right about this, but maybe we should allocate some dedicated spying to confirming it's still the case. The seven know and have known about this, they hate us and consider the empire an existential threat. They must be working on something. They've demonstrated the ability to call powerful angels before, maybe they're working that angle. They could also be preparing to rip off Theon or the hammer of the waters. It's unlikely and probably closer to fear mongering than proper speculation, but we can't assume that they're just sitting there trembling and waiting to be conquered. Assuming they are helpless is a good way to get a group of angels to surprise miracle spam a legion or two while the chosen distract us or something. If they're weak enough not to threaten us they're a bad tool and not worth keeping around to try shit. If they're strong enough to be useful they're strong enough to be a threat -or grow into one- and given their position should be treated as such. Our current policies basically give them free run to plan and try shit to see what works.
Most likely scenario -- it reinforces our story and strengthens the right of the Conquerer to rule the Goblin Market. If we kill the biggest challenger, all the lesser fey will either bow or flee.
Good point, I guess being mythic does give Viserys some leverage to count more for this sort of story magic stuff. I'm not sure if a regular mortal lord would have the metaphorical weight to keep the fey in line even if they could smash this particular fey.
 
@DragonParadox
1. For figuring out how to make Psionics, how many Illithids and Ulitharids do we need?
2. Could we toss a particularly powerful Ultharid to Yss to make a psionic Serpentfolk if we were so inclined?
3. So Limited Wish is capable of relatively minor things like increasing an individual's fertility. What can Miracle -- the version that doesn't cost us 10,000 XP -- do? Can we get a rough idea of the kinds of things you'll allow?
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 30, 2019 at 12:47 PM, finished with 69 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Full disclosure, barring everything but Jeyne's name and her exact circumstances as those are not yours to share, both how far this threat might stretch and the fact that it would be tremendously difficult to prevent a wave of assassinations from what are ultimately disposable puppets with more potent poison than can be found above water--that distrust would sow strife in the ranks of men while their slaves found what remained easy pickings.
    -[X] Do not include any information about producing psions at all.
 
You're probably right about this, but maybe we should allocate some dedicated spying to confirming it's still the case. The seven know and have known about this, they hate us and consider the empire an existential threat. They must be working on something. They've demonstrated the ability to call powerful angels before, maybe they're working that angle. They could also be preparing to rip off Theon or the hammer of the waters. It's unlikely and probably closer to fear mongering than proper speculation, but we can't assume that they're just sitting there trembling and waiting to be conquered. Assuming they are helpless is a good way to get a group of angels to surprise miracle spam a legion or two while the chosen distract us or something. If they're weak enough not to threaten us they're a bad tool and not worth keeping around to try shit. If they're strong enough to be useful they're strong enough to be a threat -or grow into one- and given their position should be treated as such. Our current policies basically give them free run to plan and try shit to see what works.

Good point, I guess being mythic does give Viserys some leverage to count more for this sort of story magic stuff. I'm not sure if a regular mortal lord would have the metaphorical weight to keep the fey in line even if they could smash this particular fey.
When Reconquest comes up we basically have but the following as actual problems to deal with:
1) Lannisters (their few dragons, likely great amount of extraplanar mercenaries, Lana, amassed use of cheap but effective wands).

2) Court of Stars (massive, massive force if they see us as existential danger - under no circumstances will we return them their crown however, so we might as well be).

3) Infiltrators of Devils (remains of Alchemist' guild too), Illithids (see psionics last chapter) and Others (because fuckers just get more active with each passing day).

4) Faith (7 champions, that of Warrior likely excluded; that of Smith seemingly being busy making anti-dragon artifacts; that of Stranger likely being a pile of shit. Also lots of Angels).

5) Maesters (unknown number of high-level spellcasters; possibly great rituals available to slow down our progress, also real great potential at diversion among unprepared Lords)

Where Lannisters can be largely dealt with by lightning-fast opening move (kill Lana and Tywin, capture the mountain and set Legions inside), giving them time would make lots of trouble for us - especially with such versatile caster as Lana.

We can do very little against sleeper agents and infiltrators stirring shit up - except but to do everything quickly of course.

CoS... I have no use how are we to deal with them.
I suppose that one Fey we sent off to stir shit up after we recruited him could give us more detail - we probably should turn them on each-other, if but for a mere month, to buy us time to reconquer the place

Maesters are done as an institution, but hold many decent people. The problem is of course the higher-ups, who are also decent spellcaster on top.
Some recon and capture of whoever we can near the war's start won't go amiss.

Faith... Well, we got one combat-oriented champion.
Chosen of Stranger will attempt to shit down out neck at the worst moment possible, that much is but a given after Baelor incident - but the rest could be managed, possibly. Danielle may not be needed to be killed off, even if Lucan likely will.
The Smith's Chosen is another obvious one, making anti-dragon weapons, but we don't know nearly enough about him yet to judge :/
Angels swarming around high-on-faith locations and starting insurgencies is a definitive danger though, yes.
We have no idea if Seven would go that far, but they might, and we'll have to try hard to not make that into bloodbath. Somehow.
 
@DragonParadox
1. For figuring out how to make Psionics, how many Illithids and Ulitharids do we need?
2. Could we toss a particularly powerful Ultharid to Yss to make a psionic Serpentfolk if we were so inclined?
3. So Limited Wish is capable of relatively minor things like increasing an individual's fertility. What can Miracle -- the version that doesn't cost us 10,000 XP -- do? Can we get a rough idea of the kinds of things you'll allow?
  1. You already has as many as will help, more won't change the progress for psions
  2. Yss does not want Far Realm influence in his worshipers, it's messy and dangerous and he is nothing if not conservative when it comes to such things. He might change his mind eventually, but not in any timescale that is relevant to you guys.
  3. That is a hard question simply because miracle is so vast in scope. In terms of fertility for instance I would allow a increase for a bloodline seven generations down the line
 
I'm almost caught up so I began reading through most posts so I'm aware of the current discussion once I finally get there
But before that, could someone explain/link the mythic thingies for me? They came kinda suddenly and I'm still not fully aware of their significance.
Also, since I glimpsed some kind of discussion about Tor and the windwards, I remembered that there is another secret we are hiding from our allies, did we ever come clean to the Pondmaster about what happened to his brother?
 
When Reconquest comes up we basically have but the following as actual problems to deal with:
1) Lannisters (their few dragons, likely great amount of extraplanar mercenaries, Lana, amassed use of cheap but effective wands).

2) Court of Stars (massive, massive force if they see us as existential danger - under no circumstances will we return them their crown however, so we might as well be).

3) Infiltrators of Devils (remains of Alchemist' guild too), Illithids (see psionics last chapter) and Others (because fuckers just get more active with each passing day).

4) Faith (7 champions, that of Warrior likely excluded; that of Smith seemingly being busy making anti-dragon artifacts; that of Stranger likely being a pile of shit. Also lots of Angels).

5) Maesters (unknown number of high-level spellcasters; possibly great rituals available to slow down our progress, also real great potential at diversion among unprepared Lords)

Where Lannisters can be largely dealt with by lightning-fast opening move (kill Lana and Tywin, capture the mountain and set Legions inside), giving them time would make lots of trouble for us - especially with such versatile caster as Lana.

We can do very little against sleeper agents and infiltrators stirring shit up - except but to do everything quickly of course.

CoS... I have no use how are we to deal with them.
I suppose that one Fey we sent off to stir shit up after we recruited him could give us more detail - we probably should turn them on each-other, if but for a mere month, to buy us time to reconquer the place

Maesters are done as an institution, but hold many decent people. The problem is of course the higher-ups, who are also decent spellcaster on top.
Some recon and capture of whoever we can near the war's start won't go amiss.

Faith... Well, we got one combat-oriented champion.
Chosen of Stranger will attempt to shit down out neck at the worst moment possible, that much is but a given after Baelor incident - but the rest could be managed, possibly. Danielle may not be needed to be killed off, even if Lucan likely will.
The Smith's Chosen is another obvious one, making anti-dragon weapons, but we don't know nearly enough about him yet to judge :/
Angels swarming around high-on-faith locations and starting insurgencies is a definitive danger though, yes.
We have no idea if Seven would go that far, but they might, and we'll have to try hard to not make that into bloodbath. Somehow.
1. They've got... three dragons, IIRC. Three dragons, the resources of the Golden Shields, whatever Lanna Lannister manages to loot, etc. She was looking towards the House of the Undying, but frankly it will be downright miraculous if she actually gets away with robbing the multi-bodied chronomancer hivemind.

2. Not true, dude. There is one instance where we return the crown to them, and that's if we get them to swear fealty to us. They are a distraction we simply don't need, and while we won't shy away from war with them it'd also be great if they simply joined us.

3. Infiltrators are definitely a problem, but we're also getting better in dealing with them. Now nobody is able to be possessed in Sorcerer's Deep thanks to the Tree of the Dawn Age so we no longer have to worry about that or mind-control there, and the Inquisition is getting better and better at what they do.

4. Oh, the Faith is a problem for sure. Best case scenario, they die fighting mutual enemies and we can go back to ignoring them. I don't see Lucan ever getting along with us considering we're basically an anti-christ to his religion.

5. Fortunately for us the Maester conspiracy seems to be limited in scope. We should hopefully have Marwyn the Mage get in contact with us eventually. The man definitely won't be on their side.
I'm almost caught up so I began reading through most posts so I'm aware of the current discussion once I finally get there
But before that, could someone explain/link the mythic thingies for me? They came kinda suddenly and I'm still not fully aware of their significance.
Also, since I glimpsed some kind of discussion about Tor and the windwards, I remembered that there is another secret we are hiding from our allies, did we ever come clean to the Pondmaster about what happened to his brother?
Here is a link:


As for the Sealord's brother, there's really not much to say there. A succubus killed the man. If the Sealord wants we can always just resurrect him. Given the resources he has access to at this stage there might be a reason he hasn't already paid for it.
 
Miracle does as much juice as the god and cleric behind it are willing to out into it.

No more. No less.

Think of it as using a spellslot to get a boon from Yss.
 
Miracle does as much juice as the god and cleric behind it are willing to out into it.

No more. No less.

Think of it as using a spellslot to get a boon from Yss.
Even at its least potent form with zero XP expenditure we're talking a very versatile spell of the Ninth Circle. All I'm doing is getting rulings on what we can accomplish there.
 
4. Oh, the Faith is a problem for sure. Best case scenario, they die fighting mutual enemies and we can go back to ignoring them. I don't see Lucan ever getting along with us considering we're basically an anti-christ to his religion.
Could yoh expound upon why you think the faith will attack us?

Everyone seems to think they will. But to me it just seems like you guys are borrowing trouble for no reason.

So can you explain why you think they will start a fight with us?
 
Could yoh expound upon why you think the faith will attack us?

Everyone seems to think they will. But to me it just seems like you guys are borrowing trouble for no reason.

So can you explain why you think they will start a fight with us?
Everything about Lucan's interactions with us has suggested this.

He is, ultimately, a man of principle, and will not compromise on those principles. The civilization we're building stands in stark contrast to said principles -- an empire where people shop for gods, have a distinctly mercantile attitude, casually do blood magic at the nearest Heart Tree in exchange for a bit of magic, etc.

That, and it was outright said that he doesn't want to compromise the Faith in future generations because he knows how gods and worship works and he knows how gods can be altered through said worship, and if the Seven are brought into the Imperium, then a few centuries down the line they will be very different.
 
When Reconquest comes up we basically have but the following as actual problems to deal with:
1) Lannisters (their few dragons, likely great amount of extraplanar mercenaries, Lana, amassed use of cheap but effective wands).

2) Court of Stars (massive, massive force if they see us as existential danger - under no circumstances will we return them their crown however, so we might as well be).

3) Infiltrators of Devils (remains of Alchemist' guild too), Illithids (see psionics last chapter) and Others (because fuckers just get more active with each passing day).

4) Faith (7 champions, that of Warrior likely excluded; that of Smith seemingly being busy making anti-dragon artifacts; that of Stranger likely being a pile of shit. Also lots of Angels).

5) Maesters (unknown number of high-level spellcasters; possibly great rituals available to slow down our progress, also real great potential at diversion among unprepared Lords)

Where Lannisters can be largely dealt with by lightning-fast opening move (kill Lana and Tywin, capture the mountain and set Legions inside), giving them time would make lots of trouble for us - especially with such versatile caster as Lana.

We can do very little against sleeper agents and infiltrators stirring shit up - except but to do everything quickly of course.

CoS... I have no use how are we to deal with them.
I suppose that one Fey we sent off to stir shit up after we recruited him could give us more detail - we probably should turn them on each-other, if but for a mere month, to buy us time to reconquer the place

Maesters are done as an institution, but hold many decent people. The problem is of course the higher-ups, who are also decent spellcaster on top.
Some recon and capture of whoever we can near the war's start won't go amiss.

Faith... Well, we got one combat-oriented champion.
Chosen of Stranger will attempt to shit down out neck at the worst moment possible, that much is but a given after Baelor incident - but the rest could be managed, possibly. Danielle may not be needed to be killed off, even if Lucan likely will.
The Smith's Chosen is another obvious one, making anti-dragon weapons, but we don't know nearly enough about him yet to judge :/
Angels swarming around high-on-faith locations and starting insurgencies is a definitive danger though, yes.
We have no idea if Seven would go that far, but they might, and we'll have to try hard to not make that into bloodbath. Somehow.
I honestly think the best way to stop it is preemptive, it's how bloodraven decided to do it. These guys went from wandering around in the woods to wielding mind blank rings and converting lords to their cause in a fairly short period of time. As far as I can tell the seven need mortal hands to reach into this world. We can solve this by killing anyone with an actual connection to them, leaving the faith under the control of dozens of conflicting heresies and corrupt septons. Every moment a strong mortal of theirs exists is another moment they have to establish themselves. I get that some of them are nice, but we're falling for a gimmick; they're supposed to be nice and make you hesitant to fight them. They even mean in sometimes, but that doesn't mean they aren't committed to fighting us. It's like we're in a sword fight and are trying to wield a blade while it's still in our opponents hand; The only thing it'll get us is cut up. If we want to use them we need to know everything they can do and have a plan to manage it, not just keep going easy on them until they hopefully flip. Danelle is the one most of the thread likes and she still reluctantly went along with the kingkiller stuff. That's what "good" opponents are like; if you aren't a monster they'll regret killing you, but they'll still do it. While we are working with them we need to keep our own interests at the forefront of our plans, even if we hide it from them.
Could yoh expound upon why you think the faith will attack us?

Everyone seems to think they will. But to me it just seems like you guys are borrowing trouble for no reason.

So can you explain why you think they will start a fight with us?
Multiple reasons; the seven are fighting with the old gods and we are sworn to see them humbled. A task we have actively advanced through all kinds of mechanisms. They also want to be the sole magical force on the plane, in addition to being the only "true" gods, and (their faith at least) wants significant political power. We want none of that, so we have to fight it out.
 
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