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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Evaunit02mark1 said:
You're asking a priest to say that his gods were in the wrong. Even from a pragmatic "this will stop the killings" standpoint most of them won't go for it.

Annoyingly the higher up in the faith you go the more you tend to run into people willing to become martyrs for the cause.
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It is one thing to become a martyr of yourself, another to make your followers into martyrs too.

And we cna always murder the idiotic ones and put someone saner up there.
 
Ericwinter said:
Well, the only real alternative that is not a "protest vote"--and dear god that entire concept posses me off. Just don't vote if you kbow. It won't work--is goldfish, and he already changed his mind to throw his weight behind crake. For myself, it's not entirely unsavory, just feels like we're staving off the actual conversation till later.
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The whole "staving off conversation" thing is because it is literally impossible to talk productive after what we have done.

It is all well and good to complain about the cleaner rutting around your personal space and moving everything around, but maybe try not to make a mess and you wouldn't need to have one come in?
 
[x] Plan Re-Evaluate the Course Mk 2

Right reading through all the posts, and the plans. This seems like the best bet so far. Just for the conviction that we are 100% done with this. We need to see if they can pick up and help humanity survive, or go down as a footnote in our empires history as a example of folly.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
[x] Plan Re-Evaluate the Course Mk 2
-[x] Throughout your reign, and even beforehand, you have chosen many rigorous, often thankless tasks, stomped on lives like ants just in the course of an average day of rulership and statesmanship. And you stand by it. Still, if there's something you despise, it's needless cruelty and senseless waste. You won't become driven, out of all things, by ignorant fear. You were never one to close your eyes to harsh truths, even if their light stings.
-[x] "Lucan has brought back one of my ancestors in the form of a creature designed with the sole purpose of slaying me, capable of dealing unhealable wounds and unbreakable curses. Roland, one of his attendant angels, could not say the man would be even willing to meet with me under a parley, just to talk. Still, I can see the sincerity in your eyes, the fear and the pain, and, above all, the faith that drives you. I respect that you've come here, and are willing to die to speak your mind. You seem like a good woman, Danelle, so I am willing to have a little bit of faith myself." *Release the hostages*
-[x] "Once you have confirmed their safety, I want to speak with you and Brother Lucan. Today. It seems it's past time that cards were laid on the table. You have my word you will leave unmolested, if you don't break the peace first." During the evening, Danelle and Lucan will meet with Viserys and Dany.
-[x] There's no point in laying out a list of demands or motivations or goals. Hear out both of their concerns and their motives. If they care even a little about you hearing them out, they will share what they think is necessary, and you will tacitly ensure they know they can ask for clarification from you if it is required for them to share more. This time calls for clear communication, no more and no less.

@Crake what about this?
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[X] TotallyNotEvil

Seeing as how I also stand by it, I just didn't feel the need to be explicit about it, I see nothing wrong with this vote.
 
065tdsa said:
This is still rolling over, it's just phrased with more dignity.
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This is saying "enough is enough, I won't be yanked around by rumours anymore".

Because we were dead certain Lucan was a madman. He isn't.

We were dead certain he would never compromise. He is.

We were dead certain he wants a Faith Militant. He doesn't.

How many things will we be wrong about?

I want to hear their pitch, and then lay it out: the Seven owe a debt to the Old Gods, a debt I not only swore to collect, but a debt that they need to pay, because the Old Gods are the first bulwark against Winter. It's unacceptable that magic becomes regulated by the Faith. There needs to be tolerance to other religions, as they are provably equally valid.

Either they live with it, or they don't live at all. Because we simply can not compromise on that.

They want help convincing the OG to accept, and the Seven to cough up their weregild? I will gladly assist.

They want help fighting nasty shit around Westeros? Ring me up.

But it's time for brutal honesty. If their intentions are as they claim, if they want to be treated as equals and have their opinions heard and valued, then let them put their money where their mouth is, and compromise.

Danelle isn't the wrong that the Faith can be a of tremendous help to us. As long as it's actual help, I don't give a flying fuck. They follow the same rules as everyone, as those are the rules that have the best chance of everyone not dying while still caring about things like dignity, and they get the same benefits. They don't, they get the same punishment.
 
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Speaking of: how much would stuff change for the Church of the Seven if we add them into the fold?

Not much for the average Sept Iirc and the actual priest with Class Levels have to register and that's it?

They don't get to know the King anymore which I give 0 fucks about, we an Emperor
 
And here's the original one for those who liked it more.
[X] Plan Re-Evaluate the Course
-[X] In a single conversation, and all of the proceeding events of the Conclave, one thing has become apparent to you about Danelle: Not just sincerity, but of risk, compromise. She has come here to both act as a Martyr for Lucan to exploit for the sake of the people she hopes to defend, but also a statement in of itself. She has met you half way, and she is begging you to meet her.
-[X] You despise self delusion. You have chosen many rigorous, often thankless courses, stomped on lives like ants just in the course of an average day of rulership and statesmanship. What you have done is torment a woman who has done you no wrong and made her fret and put her life in your hand, with determination or resignation, it almost doesn't even matter.
-[X] Step back. Have Dany release the hostages.
-[X] With some fair degree of honest weariness: "Once you have confirmed their safety, I would like to speak, as I am now, with Brother Lucan." But not alone. During the evening, Danelle and Lucan will meet with Viserys and Dany. You're all for accepting some more bitter truths, but not without the support of your sister.
-[X] There's no point in laying out a list of demands or motivations or goals. Hear out both of their concerns and their motives. If they care even a little about you hearing them out, they will share what they think is necessary, and you will tacitly ensure they know they can ask for clarification from you if it is required for them to share more. This time calls for clear communication, no more and no less.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
This is saying "enough is enough, I won't be yanked around by rumours anymore".

Because we were dead certain Lucan was a madman. He isn't.

We were dead certain he would never compromise. He is.

We were dead certain he wants a Faith Militant. He doesn't.

How many things will we be wrong about?

I want to hear their pitch, and then lay it out: the Seven owe a debt to the Old Gods, a debt I not only swore to collect, but a debt that they need to pay, because the Old Gods are the first bulwark against Winter. It's unacceptable that magic becomes regulated by the Faith. There needs to be tolerance to other religions, as they are provably equally valid.

Either they live with it, or they don't live at all. Because we simply can not compromise on that.

They want help convincing the OG to accept, and the Seven to cough up their weregild? I will gladly assist.

They want help fighting nasty shit around Westeros? Ring me up.

But it's time for brutal honesty. If their intentions are as they claim, if they want to be treated as equals and have their opinions heard and valued, then let them put their money where their mouth is, and compromise.

Danelle isn't the wrong that the Faith can be a of tremendous help to us. As long as it's actual help, I don't give a flying fuck. They follow the same rules as everyone, as those are the rules that have the best chance of everyone not dying while still caring about things like dignity, and they get the same benefits. They don't, they get the same punishment.
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Hmm, don't forget all the other shit that we, and the Old Gods in our stead, have been holding back. Winter, for all that it is currently the most worrying, is one of many threats that literally nobody else has done anything about. They owe us for more than just old wounds, but we'll take the restitution since we don't have the time to fuck around any more.
 
Ericwinter said:
Hmm, don't forget all the other shit that we, and the Old Gods in our stead, have been holding back. Winter, for all that it is currently the most worrying, is one of many threats that literally nobody else has done anything about. They owe us for more than just old wounds, but we'll take the restitution since we don't have the time to fuck around any more.
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That's true, but at this point, I do not care.

The OG are the sticking point because the Seven will have to cut the arm to save the body, or they will be in the way of literally everyone living. And at that point, we will regret having to do it, but we will not hesitate doing what is necessary, and we won't regret it either. Because that's the Viserys I know.

The Seven's choice is simple: bite the bullet and live, or do neither of those things.

But while I will gladly throw in their faces, repeatedly, why we do what we do, that's beside the point. As long as the Seven can coexist and play nice with everyone else, I do not care.

If Aquaman, a fat snake a a hivemind of chibi elves and murderous savages can live together, and we can add Mr Lawful Evil "everyone is my slave" R'hllor as a grudingly neutral neighbor, the fucking Steven can do so as well.
 
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[X] TotallyNotEvi

So guys I know tensions have been high, how about an omake to take your mind off things? An internet cookie for those that recognize the characters.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
That's true, but at this point, I do not care.

The OG are the sticking point because the Seven will have to cut the arm to save the body, or they will be in the way of literally everyone living. And at that point, we will regret having to do it, but we will not hesitate doing what is necessary, and we won't regret it either. Because that's the Viserys I know.

The Seven's choice is simple: bite the bullet and live, or do neither of those things.

But while I will gladly throw in their faces, repeatedly, why we do what we do, that's beside the point. As long as the Seven can coexist and play nice with everyone else, I do not care.
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That's... exactly what I was saying. It wasn't meant to be about the Old Gods and the Seven, but the OG and everything else we'll be fighting. I just wanted to point out that Winter isn't the only thing they defend against.
 
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Omake: A Whole New World
  • Threadmarks
    • Omake: A Whole New World
    "Ughhhh" the sound of groaning emitted from the blanket-covered figure laying on the bed despite the morning sunlight streaming through the shutters. As usual, Holo had drunk excessively the night before without consideration for the consequences she would be sure to face the next morning.

    Shaking his head, Kraft Lawrence began his morning ritual by washing his face with the bucket of water provided by the innkeeper as he once again considered the strange series of events that led to their current predicament.

    They had originally set off by ship to visit a small coastal town mentioned in the legends of the Moon Eating Bear, but a powerful storm had assaulted the ship just days into the journey. The sailors had fought the storm valiantly but eventually, the ship had simply broken under the wailing winds and crashing waves, sweeping all those abroad into the sea. Lawrence's memories began to get hazy after that, all he remembered was seeing flashes of a giant wolf swimming against the tides carrying him in its jaws. If not for Holo's other form Lawrence was certain that he would have drowned in the freezing waters.

    After what seemed like days they were carried by the currents onto unfamiliar shores, with no supplies and no idea where they were Lawerence was sure he would have died of hunger of exposure if not for his campaign. Fortunately, Holo's nose was able to pick up the smell of drying fish and lead them to a small fishing town on the coast. There, Lawrence spent a few months picking up a serviceable understanding of the local language while doing various odd jobs after exchanging his not insignificant purse of gold for the local currency, a skill he had often utilized while traveling as a merchant. The village had first seemed calm and peaceful but as Lawrence learned more of the language he noticed the rumors.

    Rumors of a Dragon in the South, raising troops armed and armored in steel forged in sorcery wielding unknown magic, of unspeakable things in the seas that cause madness if looked upon and the dead rising in the plains to the East. Lawrence had initially dismissed these rumors as merely ramblings and tales distorted by distance and retellings, it was not uncommon for people to tell tall tales after a few drinks. However, the rumors kept coming and only grew more and more detailed as time passed.

    The Dragon had apparently conquered the city of Lys, by breaking the army raised by one of the cities magisters and proceeded to win the city of Myr through words within a single month of each other. Combined with the earlier conquest of Tyrosh this was apparently significant, and a feat not accomplished since a group called the Ninepenny Kings did so decades ago. But the real outrageous rumors were that of walking trees that drank the blood of innocents, bull men with the ferocity of wild beasts, and the King, by all accounts a young man younger than Lawrence himself, being a dragon not just in name but also in flesh.

    This Sorcerer's Deep was intriguing after all where else would the whereabouts of Yoitsu be if not in a place of magic and wonder. The center of it in the strange land that Lawrence and Holo found themselves, in if the rumors of a grand tower of magic and sorcery shrouded in shadow were to be believed. The journey to the island would be perilous but Lawrence had made a promise to see Holo to her home and if he could make a modest profit along the way, well who was he to argue?

    "Gimmeeee" A pale slender hand emerged from the bundle of blankets, gesturing blindly to the jug of cool water on a nearby table and breaking Lawrence's train of thought. Stifling a sigh, Lawrence stood and handed the girl the jug which she proceeded to drain.

    "Ahhh, that hits the spot," Holo exclaimed before once again cowering away as the light hits her face.

    "Regretting drinking so much now aren't you," Asks Lawrence with a slightly smug smile on his face.

    "Ahhh, I couldn't leave that delicious mead undrunk, now could I? But enough talk when are we leaving?" Asks Holo as she gets sluggishly gets out of bed.

    "Leaving? To where?" Asks Lawrence, bewildered.

    "To that so-called Sorcerer's Deep of course, where else would we find the whereabouts of Yoitsu? You don't think I noticed you speaking to that ship Captian each day after we heard the latest rumors." Holo replies with a disappointed face.

    "How.. how did you know I was…??" Lawrence stutters as he struggles to regain his composure. "Well, I wasn't sure if you would be afraid of the big scary dragon" he eventually rebuts in an attempted comeback.

    "Me? The wise wolf of Yoitsu afraid of some fire breathing lizard? You must be joking, one look at my majestic form and that overgrown salamander will be running with its tail between its legs" Holo replies arrogantly without a hint of hesitation.

    "Oh, I can count on you to protect me from the dragon then?" Lawrence jokingly asks, having recovered his composure.

    "Of course, whatever would you do without me?" Holo replies as she works herself up into a rant about her greatness.

    "Ok, ok, just let me gather up some trade goods and we can go board the ship in the harbor" Lawrence interrupts before Holo can really get herself going.

    "Hmph, fine. But before we go…….. Can you buy me an apple?" Holo asks after a dramatic pause.

    "Another one? Those things are expensive you know, how about this if you bring me luck and I make a profit once we arrive I'll get you one of those celestial apples the rumors have been talking about if they really exist." Lawrence bargains back, all the money he has spent buying apples have really been adding up. After all, what are the chances a "Celestial" apple really exists?

    "A celestial apple…." Holo repeats. "Deal!" she exclaims with stars in her eyes and a small fleck of drool escaping the corner of her mouth.

    What have I gotten myself into?
    Lawrence thinks as Holo drags him out the door and into the market below the small inn.
     
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    • Trickster314 said:
    Omake: A Whole New World
    "Ughhhh" the sound of groaning emitted from the blanket-covered figure laying on the bed despite the morning sunlight streaming through the shutters. As usual, Holo had drunk excessively the night before without consideration for the consequences she would be sure to face the next morning.

    Shaking his head, Kraft Lawrence began his morning ritual by washing his face with the bucket of water provided by the innkeeper as he once again considered the strange series of events that led to their current predicament.

    They had originally set off by ship to visit a small coastal town mentioned in the legends of the Moon Eating Bear, but a powerful storm had assaulted the ship just days into the journey. The sailors had fought the storm valiantly but eventually, the ship had simply broken under the wailing winds and crashing waves, sweeping all those abroad into the sea. Lawrence's memories began to get hazy after that, all he remembered was seeing flashes of a giant wolf swimming against the tides carrying him in its jaws. If not for Holo's other form Lawrence was certain that he would have drowned in the freezing waters.

    After what seemed like days they were carried by the currents onto unfamiliar shores, with no supplies and no idea where they were Lawerence was sure he would have died of hunger of exposure if not for his campaign. Fortunately, Holo's nose was able to pick up the smell of drying fish and lead them to a small fishing town on the coast. There, Lawrence spent a few months picking up a serviceable understanding of the local language while doing various odd jobs after exchanging his not insignificant purse of gold for the local currency, a skill he had often utilized while traveling as a merchant. The village had first seemed calm and peaceful but as Lawrence learned more of the language he noticed the rumors.

    There was a Dragon in the South, raising troops armed and armored in steel forged in sorcery wielding unknown magic, of unspeakable things in the seas that cause madness if looked upon and the dead rising in the plains to the East. Lawrence had initially dismissed these rumors as merely ramblings and tales distorted by distance and retellings, it was not uncommon for people to tell tall tales after a few drinks. However, the rumors kept coming and only grew more and more detailed as time passed.

    The Dragon had apparently conquered the city of Lys, by breaking the army raised by one of the cities magisters and proceeded to win the city of Myr through words within a single month of each other. Combined with the earlier conquest of Tyrosh this was apparently significant, and a feat not accomplished since a group called the Ninepenny Kings did so decades ago. But the real outrageous rumors were that of walking trees that drank the blood of innocents, bull men with the ferocity of beasts wild and the king, by all accounts a young man younger than Lawrence himself being a dragon not just in name but also in flesh.

    This Sorcerer's Deep was intriguing after all where else would the whereabouts of Yoitsu be if in of in a place of magic and wonder. The center of it in the strange land that Lawrence and Holo found themselves in if the rumors of a grand tower of magic and sorcery shrouded in shadow were to be believed. The journey to the island would be perilous but Lawrence had made a promise to see Holo to her home and if he could make a modest profit along the way, well who was he to argue?

    "Gimmeeee" A place slender hand emerged from the bundle of blankets, gesturing blindly to the jug of cool water on a nearby table and breaking Lawrence's train of thought. Stifling a sigh Lawrence stood and handed the girl the jug which she proceeded to drain.

    "Ahhh, that hits the spot," Holo exclaimed before once again cowering away as the light hits her face.

    "Regretting drinking so much now aren't you," Asks Lawrence with a slightly smug smile on his face.

    "Ahhh, I couldn't that delicious mead along, now could I? But enough talk when are we leaving?" Asks Holo as she gets sluggishly gets out of bed.

    "Leaving? To where?" Asks Lawrence, bewildered.

    "To that so-called Sorcerer's Deep of course, where else would we find the whereabouts of Yoitsu? You don't think I noticed you speaking to that ship Capitan each day after we heard the latest rumors." Holo replies with a disappointed face.

    "How.. how did you know I was…??" Lawrence stutters as he struggles to regain his composure. "Well, I wasn't sure if you would be afraid of the big scary dragon" he eventually rebuts in an attempted comeback.

    "Me? The wise wolf of Yoitsu afraid of some fire breathing lizard? You must be joking, one look at my majestic form and that overgrown salamander will be running with its tail between its legs" Holo replies arrogantly without a hit of hesitation.

    "Oh, I can count on you to protect me from the dragon then?" Lawrence jokingly asks, having recovered his composure.

    "Of course, whatever would you do without me?" Holo replies as she works herself up into a rant about her greatness.

    "Ok, ok, just let me gather up some trade goods and we can go board the ship in the harbor" Lawrence interrupts before Holo can really get herself going.

    "Hmph, fine. But before we go…….. Can you buy me an apple?" Holo asks after a dramatic pause.

    "Another one? Those things are expensive you know, how about this if you bring me luck and I make a profit once we arrive I'll get you one of those celestial apples the rumors have been talking about if they really exist." Lawrence bargains back, all the money he has spent buying apples have really been adding up. After all, what are the chances a "Celestial" apple really exists?

    "A celestial apple…." Holo repeats. "Deal!" she exclaims with stars in her eyes and a small fleck of drool escaping the corner of her mouth.

    Oh, what have I gotten myself into? Lawrence thinks as Holo drags him out the door and into the market before the small inn.
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    No awoo, pay $200.

    In all seriousness, watch the end result of this be a giant fucking Temple dedicated to Holo.
     
    "Let me get this straight... you have traveled the world."

    "Uhhuh."

    "Making a profit with ingenuity and market knowledge."

    "Yup."

    "And you have no plans for world domination or enslaving the human race?"

    "That sounds like too much trouble. I could totally do it though."

    "..."

    "What are you drawing?"

    "Do you like well-defined lines, or sweeping arches and winding concourses?"

    "?!"

    "Alinor, shake loose thirty--no, forty thousand marks."
     
    Trickster314 said:
    How powerful would Holo be in D&D terms, I mean disregarding the harvest stuff she's basically just a giant version of @Snowfire only with less fur :V
    I'm not sorry.
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    Not that powerful, but still not a pushover. No real combat modifiers other than being a fuckhuge wolf, but she does have very neat harvest-affecting magic. I'd peg her between CR 8 and CR 10 due to partial divinity.
     
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