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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I know this is late but I could not resist.
Azel said:
a few Divinations running into a Mindblank brickwall later and he knew that Dywen was an entirely fake persona, as he apparently was born Mindblanked and nobody had any idea where he came from
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[:V] "I was born under the Mindblank, molded by the mental protections, I was already a man the first time my mind was unprotected. By then, MY MIND WAS ALREADY THE VOID!"
 
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Artemis1992 said:
More serious approach:

[X] There is no proposal that can benefit the Faith and the Faithful alike. The best outcome, the one least likely to end in fire or blood, is for the Faith to weaken and fade, to split up into small sects with little political relevance. That is how the Faithful will survive and be protected, while the Old Gods are satisfied.
-[X] Can you act against your gods for the sake of their followers? Then we can find an agreement.
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This is basically the truth of the matter, but we can do more to get her to accept that arguing "the Faith can be used to do good!" vs. "The Faith will just be used as a bludgeon against people who disagree with it, whether you actually want it to be used in that manner or not. It is a political entity as it stands. And we don't have time to change it. We barely have time to dismantle it."
 
Crake said:
This is basically the truth of the matter, but we can do more to get her to accept that arguing "the Faith can be used to do good!" vs. "The Faith will just be used as a bludgeon against people who disagree with it, whether you actually want it to be used in that manner or not. It is a political entity as it stands. And we don't have time to change it. We barely have time to dismantle it."
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Could you write that up in a manner that does not bash it in her face as a hammer?
I'm very bad at that, as seen here.
 
People please stop making excuses, the moment we knew Lucan wasn't a frothing at the mouth fanatic we should have dropped this plan and tried reason like we have with everyone else. Including some literal devils.

People not willing to admit we fucked up, and in pride want to double down are going to start the very war we're trying to stop. This women has done nothing but good and if we put ourselves against a large number of people that would be our natural allies will be our enemies.

TLDR The plan is fucked it's been fucked from the word go and were only fucking ourselves if we try to force this. New plan with reason and u understanding instead of assumptions.

Because anyone that thought we could talk them down any more then we could be talked down were the situation reversed is a bloody idiot.
 
lancelot said:
People please stop making excuses, the moment we knew Lucan wasn't a frothing at the mouth fanatic we should have dropped this plan and tried reason like we have with everyone else. Including some literal devils.

People not willing to admit we fucked up, and in pride want to double down are going to start the very war we're trying to stop. This women has done nothing but good and if we put ourselves against a large number of people that would be our natural allies will be our enemies.
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To make it clear this isn't an issue of pride. This is the fact that the old gods want the faith shattered or several swimming pools of blood, and I'd much rather given them the first rather than the latter.
 
lancelot said:
People not willing to admit we fucked up, and in pride want to double down are going to start the very war we're trying to stop. This women has done nothing but good and if we put ourselves against a large number of people that would be our natural allies will be our enemies.
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Summoning Baelor the Kingkiller Angel kind of poisoned the diplomatic well.
Edit: And I doubt our chances of convincing a Chosen of the Faith that 'dismantling the faith is the best option'. Or that we need to invade Westeros - Danelle would be fine with us never again setting foot on Westeros.
 
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lancelot said:
People please stop making excuses, the moment we knew Lucan wasn't a frothing at the mouth fanatic we should have dropped this plan and tried reason like we have with everyone else. Including some literal devils.

People not willing to admit we fucked up, and in pride want to double down are going to start the very war we're trying to stop. This women has done nothing but good and if we put ourselves against a large number of people that would be our natural allies will be our enemies.

TLDR The plan is fucked it's been fucked from the word go and were only fucking ourselves if we try to force this. New plan with reason and u understanding instead of assumptions.

Because anyone that thought we could talk them down any more then we could be talked down were the situation reversed is a bloody idiot.
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But they made such pretty walls out of that denial!
 
[X] Agree to release the prisoners on a number of conditions.
-[X] The first condition is that she and Lucan agree to meet in peace under Parley.
-[X] The second, that Parley will not be broken on their side or by their allies while we agree to do the same.
-[X] The third, that she and Lucan agree to meet in a place unhallowed by the seven as we agree meet in a place unhallowed by any of our allied deities.
-[X] If she is confused by the strictness of our conditions explain to her the nature of the Angel Lucan sent to kill us, how it's power was distinctly crafted to slay us, and how the person used for its creation was literally the most uncompromising agent he could have possibly chosen.
-[X] If the agreement is made release her allies from smoky confinement in a sept and allow them to contact her. Lucan's allies will be released once she can guarantee his agreement to stick to the conditions of our deal.
-[X] If she has a problem with this bring up Baelor again, point out he did this without any prior knowledge of our temperament or even conversing at any point prior.
-[X] Explain quite calmly that the Chosen, the faith, and frankly even the Seven are not our priority at the moment. Preventing Westeros from devolving into an even bigger problem to fix is.
-[X] If she becomes insulted by this remark calmly point out the numerous problems we've solved regarding securing the wall, which should have been done without our intervention, or give examples like the cult festering underneath their noses, in a sept, that we helped destroy just a few days ago without prior knowledge of their existence.

Just an amateurish framework, destroy and mutate as needed.
 
lancelot said:
People please stop making excuses, the moment we knew Lucan wasn't a frothing at the mouth fanatic we should have dropped this plan and tried reason like we have with everyone else. Including some literal devils.

People not willing to admit we fucked up, and in pride want to double down are going to start the very war we're trying to stop. This women has done nothing but good and if we put ourselves against a large number of people that would be our natural allies will be our enemies.

TLDR The plan is fucked it's been fucked from the word go and were only fucking ourselves if we try to force this. New plan with reason and u understanding instead of assumptions.

Because anyone that thought we could talk them down any more then we could be talked down were the situation reversed is a bloody idiot.
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If the situation were reversed they would be dead.
We are talking because we are winning, we would be burning people if we were loosing.

Besides, for all that Danelle is cool, the Seven are still our enemies and the Faith a political problem. Lucan being less of an asshole than expected does not actually magically make our differences dissapear.
 
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Evaunit02mark1 said:
[X] Agree to release the prisoners on a number of conditions.
-[X] The first condition is that she and Lucan agree to meet in peace under Parley.
-[X] The second, that Parley will not be broken on their side or by their allies while we agree to do the same.
-[X] The third, that she and Lucan agree to meet in a place unhallowed by the seven as we agree meet in a place unhallowed by any of our allied deities.
-[X] If she is confused by the strictness of our conditions explain to her the nature of the Angel Lucan sent to kill us, how it's power was distinctly crafted to slay us, and how the person used for its creation was literally the most uncompromising agent he could have possibly chosen.
-[X] If the agreement is made release her allies from smoky confinement in a sept and allow them to contact her. Lucan's allies will be released once she can guarantee his agreement to stick to the conditions of our deal.
-[X] If she has a problem with this bring up Baelor again, point out he did this without any prior knowledge of our temperament or even conversing at any point prior.
-[X] Explain quite calmly that the Chosen, the faith, and frankly even the Seven are not our priority at the moment. Preventing Westeros from devolving into an even bigger problem to fix is.
-[X] If she becomes insulted by this remark calmly point out the numerous problems we've solved regarding securing the wall, which should have been done without our intervention, or give examples like the cult festering underneath their noses, in a sept, that we helped destroy just a few days ago without prior knowledge of their existence.

Just an amateurish framework, destroy and mutate as needed.
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Got a new version of my vote here, mind if I steal some of your arguments?
[ ] "Why should I not treat you as such when that is how you all have acted?"
-[ ] go ham on elucidating on the madness and stupidity the actions of the seven have brought on our people, both subjects and friends alike.
-[ ] mention the fact that Baelor the blessed was used as a sacrificial pawn against us to appease Lucan's anger.
-[ ] list every single time we've had to carefully tread around the faith with deception to prevent them from destroying themselves. "If the seven desired their followers to act how Dywin acted, there would be no need for this."
-[ ] "You cannot expect kindness and mercy when the values you have preached never extend beyond those found 'fair' in the eyes of your gods."
-[ ] "You wish to be treated as more then children? You wish to be more than just pawns on a battlefield? Come with me then. Your eyes shall be opened, and at the end you shall be returned here with your companions safe and sound."
--[ ] Lucan gets to come along if he asks nicely.
--[ ] Sorcerers' Deep happy fun times tour, making it clear that fiends are not bound into servitude (I seem to recall that being explicitly declared illegal), with devils being permanently sacrificed to remove them from the world, and the whole general quality of life situation.
--[ ] Include a tour of all temples, including the seven & the red god's. Make it lt clear that we don't hold grudges against gods we dislike/distrust.
--[ ] Explain how the Seven have almost willfully hindered the wellbeing of their believers through their actions, by the virtue of them not doing nearly enough.
---[ ] Show them their companions, safe and sound (after of course we finish a brief, polite interrogation.)
---[ ] Explain the scenario with the Others, the Illithids, and the Fey.
---[ ] Explain the deal we made with the Old Gods. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY ITS MORALITY. Merely make it clear that you acted in the matter you believed would benefit the realm as a whole.
---[ ] Ask what they would see done in our position if the Seven that were one tasked them with either humbling all heretics or killing them all.
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I'm halfway through writing a social vote. It's long.

@lancelot you're self-righteous and criticize the thread. We did indeed fail to gather proper information on Lucan. But remember, these people are our enemies. Our objectives are fundamentally incompatible right now.
There are three possible outcomes here:
  1. We successfully splinter the Faith. The Chosen are a problem for later, and for now they're busy struggling to limit the damage. Perhaps we'll Diplomance some and kill the others, who knows?
  2. We kill the Chosen and their companions, then crush the faith (preferably through Diplomacy and not war)
  3. The Chosen kill us
  4. [Unlikely for now] -> The Chosen abandon their Gods and serve us instead, aiding us against the Long Night.
 
This is just an idea, pick it apart as you will.

[X] Plan The bigger picture
-[X] "While I can understand that this is a strenuous time for you. I am afraid that you are not able to see the bigger picture as I am. While Westeros holds a place in my heart. I have to look to the safety of my citizens who have come under the aegis of my wings. What you have to realize are the threats that are lurking just outside of your sight. The Deep Ones you know doubt already know of. But do you know of Tiamat to the east? The machinations of the lord of the third plane of Hell? Do you truly know of the threat to the North beyond the Wall? Have you even heard of the Sultan of Brass? The true plans of you fey "allies" for the Reach? All of this is constantly on my mind and I have protected the plane from threats that you could barely fathom."
-[X] "Will people die along the way? Yes. Is this fair? No. But, I have to look to the protection of the entire plane, the countless millions who live upon and seek shelter upon her."
 
"You will sooner draw tears from stone than you will get people on the internet to admit wrongdoing." :V

I think it's time for an avatar change an avatar change actually.
 
[ ] "Do not treat you like children, you say? Pieces on a board? Very well. Allow me to show you just how young you really are, and the game we are all forced to play."
This is about the best I can do right now, but I'm hoping @Snowfire or @Goldfish can do better. My main priorities right now are taking Danelle, and possibly Lucan, to the Deep to show them just how naive they really are. I'm talking full blown tour route of the capital, with Trophy Room, Godswoods, interviews with, at the least, Dany, Rina, and Xor as the most familiar with our major enemies at the moment, and if possible talking to the other people, both high and low, we have gone far out of our way to help out. This is both a show of power and proof that they are far out of their league, and not just against us, but also that we are trying to help, and pretty much the only person who has achieved anything large scale.
EDIT: Or @chryssalideater . He seems fairly close to what I was going for, just without mention of interviews or mentioning things like Tiamat and Mammon.
 
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chryssalideater said:
[ ] "Why should I not treat you as such when that is how you all have acted?"
-[ ] go ham on elucidating on the madness and stupidity the actions of the seven have brought on our people, both subjects and friends alike.
-[ ] mention the fact that Baelor the blessed was used as a sacrificial pawn against us to appease Lucan's anger.
-[ ] list every single time we've had to carefully tread around the faith with deception to prevent them from destroying themselves. "If the seven desired their followers to act how Dywin acted, there would be no need for this."
-[ ] "You cannot expect kindness and mercy when the values you have preached never extend beyond those found 'fair' in the eyes of your gods."
-[ ] "You wish to be treated as more then children? You wish to be more than just pawns on a battlefield? Come with me then. Your eyes shall be opened, and at the end you shall be returned here with your companions safe and sound."
--[ ] Lucan gets to come along if he asks nicely.
--[ ] Sorcerers' Deep happy fun times tour, making it clear that fiends are not bound into servitude (I seem to recall that being explicitly declared illegal), with devils being permanently sacrificed to remove them from the world, and the whole general quality of life situation.
--[ ] Include a tour of all temples, including the seven & the red god's. Make it lt clear that we don't hold grudges against gods we dislike/distrust.
--[ ] Explain how the Seven have almost willfully hindered the wellbeing of their believers through their actions, by the virtue of them not doing nearly enough.
---[ ] Show them their companions, safe and sound (after of course we finish a brief, polite interrogation.)
---[ ] Explain the scenario with the Others, the Illithids, and the Fey.
---[ ] Explain the deal we made with the Old Gods. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY ITS MORALITY. Merely make it clear that you acted in the matter you believed would benefit the realm as a whole.
---[ ] Ask what they would see done in our position if the Seven that were one tasked them with either humbling all heretics or killing them all.
...It's a vote I guess? @zxzx24 This isn't polite, but it's also honest, and that's technically a virtue, so good enough.
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I rather like this. Perhaps point out hell and the efreeti as well?

Also point out how the 7 have basically accomplished nothing as far as making the human race safer too.

I mean she and Lucan did heroics which is admirable. But we're an administrator.
 
[x] Plan The World as we see it
-[X] Release her companions right now, just ask her to actually listen to us
[X] There is no proposal that can benefit the Faith and the Faithful alike. The best outcome, the one least likely to end in fire or blood, is for the Faith to weaken and fade, to split up into small sects with little political relevance. That is how the Faithful will survive and be protected, while the Old Gods are satisfied.
-[X] Can you act against your gods for the sake of their followers? Then we can find an agreement.
-[X] Explain the wider situation, the countless enemies in this world and others, the help the Old Gods are giving us and why it is worth helping them with their old grudges in return.
-[X] Lay out the entire strategic situation on- and off-plane, even if it takes several hours and illusory flipcharts. Yes this includes Devil-activity, the Brazen Throne and Tiamat.
-[X] Ask her honestly if she sees a way to fullfill all our goals and protect mankind while keeping the Faith intact and the Seven unbowed? We don't have the time to do this perfectly and since Lucan's introduction to us was an Angel with Kingkiller-template we judged talking things out not to be worth it.

This is a bit of a mess, any helP?
 
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I'd also like to point out this is the best I've seen of player engagement in a while and I'm enjoying it a lot.
 
[X] "Why should I not treat you as such when that is how you all have acted?"
-[X] go ham on elucidating on the madness and stupidity the actions of the seven have brought on our people, both subjects and friends alike.
-[X] list every single time we've had to carefully tread around the faith with deception to prevent them from destroying themselves. "If the seven desired their followers to act how Dywin acted, there would be no need for this."
-[X] "You cannot expect kindness and mercy when the values you have preached never extend beyond those found 'fair' in the eyes of your gods."
-[X] "You wish to be treated as more then children? You wish to be more than just pawns on a battlefield? Come with me then. Your eyes shall be opened, and at the end you shall be returned here with your companions safe and sound."
-[X] Bring them to sorcerer's deep under the following conditions.
--[X] The first condition is that she and Lucan agree to meet in peace under Parley.
--[X] The second, that Parley will not be broken on their side or by their allies while we agree to do the same.
--[X] If she is confused by the strictness of our conditions explain to her that Lucan's own angels stated that he could not be trusted to not betray a parlay.
--[X] Elaborate on the nature of the Angel Lucan sent to kill us, how it's power was distinctly crafted to slay us, and how the person used for its creation was literally the most uncompromising agent he could have possibly chosen.
--[X] If the agreement is made release her allies from smoky confinement in Sorcerer's Deep and explain that there is currently a parley in place and that Danelle is coming to collect them.
-[X] Sorcerers' Deep happy fun times tour, making it clear that fiends are not bound into servitude (I seem to recall that being explicitly declared illegal), with devils being permanently sacrificed to remove them from the world, and the whole general quality of life situation.
--[X] Include a tour of all temples, including the seven & the red god's. Make it lt clear that we don't hold grudges against gods we dislike/distrust.
--[X] Explain how the Seven have almost willfully hindered the wellbeing of their believers through their actions, by the virtue of them not doing nearly enough.
---[X] Show them their companions, safe and sound (after of course we finish a brief, polite interrogation.)
---[X] Explain the scenario with the Others, the Illithids, and the Fey.
---[X] Explain the deal we made with the Old Gods. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY ITS MORALITY. Merely make it clear that you acted in the matter you believed would benefit the realm as a whole.
---[X] Ask what they would see done in our position if the Seven that were one tasked them with either humbling all heretics or killing them all.


It's a vote! Amazing!
 
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