-[] Limit the power of the inquisition to spy on your own citizenry (Write in)
We need that to counter countless assholes that will kill and/or enslave everyone if given a chance.
[] Further limit what you can use as sacrifice (Write in)
We already limit that throughly, and we kinda have to do it nowadays, as our main power-multiplier in face of multiple apocalypses.
-[] Limit the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction (Write in)
No. :V
-[] Put precautions in place in the case of human experimentation/flesh-forging (Write in)
Sure thing. Only, the only experimentation going about is one sanctioned and superwised by us. Trying to do so otherwise is a quick way to get yourself Lardered, if I'm not wrong about the laws.
-[] Do not Create the Mammon Machine
I don't see waht is wrong with making it. Really. Is it wrong for us to repair the Plinth we fouynd in Valyria? That's essentialy the same thing - a massive artifact-shaped blob of power we are using to our purposes.
-[] Try to limit the grain crises you had set up (Write in)
We already are going to. That's in MAs this month.
X] The news of the harvest Ritual spreading throughout Westeros bear little good to people of Seven Kingdoms... At least, those who will be caught unaware.
-[X] Either seek meeting with loyal lords, or have them informed via trustworthy sources. Debrief them on economical consequences the Rirual of Harvest will have and give recommendations on countering those problems.
--[X] the Lords loyal to us should seek to either sell off their stocks of grain in between harvest seasons to profit from high prices or to stockpile everything they've got in preparation for the Invasion and the coming Long Night. They just need to ride out the grain price collapse once the markets re-open for cheap Essosi grain.
-[] Be more careful in your intrigues about causing avoidable deaths (Write in)
Eh.


[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others
 
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...Worth it! What we have achieved in our time is still much better then the alternative.

[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others

Edit: The Chained God has shown us the present, one where our actions caused misery. But what about the other timelines? One where we didn't go far enough? Ones where we failed everyone because of our morality.
 
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[X] Snowfire

Edit: Switching my vote, since I like Snowfire's better. It allowes for a bit more mercy, but still keeps Viserys in a pragmatic mindset.


 
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[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, I'm comfortable with our actions so far.
 
...Worth it! What we have achieved in our time is still much better then the alternative.

[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others

Edit: The Chained God has shown us the present, one where our actions caused misery. But what about the other timelines? One where we didn't go far enough? Ones where we failed everyone because of our morality.

You seem to believe Syrax wants you to take the ethical route, she does not care about that. She just wants you to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance before someone can bludgeon Viserys with it.
 
You seem to believe Syrax wants you to take the ethical route, she does not care about that. She just wants you to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance before someone can bludgeon Viserys with it.
Speaking of Syrax, @DragonParadox, we happened to have looted every last prophecy from her spire. Has anything interesting been unearthed? Has Laenor (undead relative) been able to give us any hints?
 
[x] Further limit what you can use as sacrifice.
[x] Give all captured cultists, one chance to renounce their dark masters, and seek redemption under the supervision of the Archon's, only if they refuse this last chance are they to be sacrificed.
 
[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others

I've stuck around after all. Might as well cast my name into the urn.
 
You seem to believe Syrax wants you to take the ethical route, she does not care about that. She just wants you to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance before someone can bludgeon Viserys with it.
I acknowledge that her argument is only backed by what she selectively chose to show us. For every deranged cultist, there are thousands if not millions of freed slaves. For every death we consigned to with our plots, we saved a thousand more. We are the greater good, because we do care. We cared enough to try and save as many as we can.
 
[X] Change something of what you had seen, the past is dead but the future is yet open?
-[X] Limit the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction - No deployment of WMDs, tactical or otherwise, with a civilian population as the primary target.
-[X] Write in:
Silver of Justice - There is a truth in what you have been shown, but also a message of how you have chosen to make some useful and others food for the engine of Empire. With the summoning of the Preceptor Archons, and the rituals you have created to free Fiends and more from that which binds them inevitably to the planes which supply their power, might it not also be possible to see some who are driven to consort with such powers recovered from their folly instead of simply given unto the snake or tree?
--[X] Intent here is to fold this into a Minor Action this or next turn, involving cultist rehabilitation and redemption in the same line as we're going to be using the Preceptors anyway. This would be primarily an Archon concern in terms of planning when it comes to it, and I feel functions as a Minor Action because we've already got the rehabilitation systems in place. This is just extending them a little.
-[X] In addition, commit to a Minor Action to sit down with the heads of the Inquisition and bring up treatment of prisoners, along the following lines. Note: what follows is directional, but not true policy. We'd wish to consult with the Inquisition's leaders, the Companions and probably others before we chair this meeting. This is simply the spark. A modified version will probably be heavily involved in the eventual conversation.
--[X] This act of dehumanization shows a critical crack within the institution of the Inquisition. If they make a habit of dehumanizing their targets, then they no longer give their actions the self-reflection and judgement that they desperately need. The Inquisition wields a tremendous amount of power. They can easily decree the life or death of many. As such, it is crucial that they are at every moment aware of their actions, and asking themselves - Is this truly necessary? Is this truly the right choice?
--[X] When you dehumanize your opponents, or by default put your goals above any means you might employ, then you do not do that. She becomes "just a cultist", not "just a human who coveted with demons". There is a huge difference between the two, because one is a caricature, and the other is a living being with emotions and sapience - the same kind of being you are. To kill a cultist is easy. To kill a human, even when the circumstances might justify it, is not.
--[X] If the Inquisition cannot be bothered to do something as simple as ensure that their prisoners do not have to suffer unduly, then why should we trust them with the power to spy and intervene in the life of Imperial citizens?

That's pretty much it from me. I see the use of WMDs against anyone who doesn't need them as overmuch, and something that is in line with Viserys' motivations. This won't stop us from causing another Lys, but it'll direct these sort of weapons towards those deserving of them. The second point is one that really came out of this update, and highlights a point of gross hypocrisy in how we do business. We will take those we see as potentially useful, turn Erinyes, beings of Hell itself to our service instead of see them rent asunder to fuel more useful workings. And yet we will not even attempt to do the same for our own citizenry?

It's unlikely to have major mechanical effect, maybe a small reduction in sacrifice bait (yes egoo, you can deal with that) but it's something I could see Viserys choosing to do now that he's had that flung in his face.

Beyond that, I know nothing else will get any traction (honestly I'm not sure this will) so I'm not going to attempt to reach further. I also feel that doing so would be the type of overreach that Azel and others are so utterly against. But if we can extend mercy to the literal spawn of hell then we can do it to those seeking redemption for their sins in consorting with the same powers.
 
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I acknowledge that her argument is only backed by what she selectively chose to show us. For every deranged cultist, there are thousands if not millions of freed slaves. For every death we consigned to with our plots, we saved a thousand more. We are the greater good, because we do care. We cared enough to try and save as many as we can.

She is not making an utilitarian argument. She is showing Viserys something that she knows will hurt to see and asking him to choose so no one else can pull the same trick.
 
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[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others

Viserys acknowledging the consequences of his actions if good enough for me. He's got the intelligence and world experience to know just how bad things would have been without his interference. Sure, some folks in Lannisport might be better off, but there would be Demonic armies swarming through Essos, Deep One raids occurring up and down the Narrow Sea, slavery as a continued practice throughout Western Essos, etc. I'm not the first to say it and I won't be the last, but you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. It's trite, but true enough.
 
I acknowledge that her argument is only backed by what she selectively chose to show us. For every deranged cultist, there are thousands if not millions of freed slaves. For every death we consigned to with our plots, we saved a thousand more. We are the greater good, because we do care. We cared enough to try and save as many as we can.

Hah. No we didn't. There were bloodless ways to accomplish several of the goals we were shown here. We didn't take them because they were inconvenient.
 
A king has to decide what's the best for his people. If on top of a pile of innocent corpses, so be it.

[X] Accept that which you had become and leave the sighs to others
 
She is not making an utilitarian argument. She is showing Viserys something that she knows will hurt to see and asking him to choose so no one else can putt the same trick.
I know, I just thought Viserys knew. That he is the King, and that his choices matter. People will die and the small folk will suffer. But the needs of the many will always triumph over the few.
 
Time for me to demonstrate my gullibilaty.
Ahem.

Oh no! Viserys was evil all along!

...remind me to never go near politics for my own safety.
Tywin Lannister had ordered her death, but you had sown the seeds of the despair that lead her to this
Alright fuck this though. I will not be held responsible for Tywin Lannister's dumb decisions. The economic poverty? Sure. The murder? No.
In the depths of the forge the corpse of Mammon rests not yet set into its place, in the planned fount of darkness. It would be safe as you can make it, it would be effective, but still it would be a timeless desecration. Would it truly be safe enough? Could anything justify such an act?
Why are we building the evil mcguffin from chrono trigger what the fuck-
You have seen these bloody fields before, a stage upon which you acted out a horrid play, a demonstration in which soldiers died under your banners and those of the foe to prove the Legion's power, to quash rebellion ere it could arise you reasoned then, and the logic is no less compelling now that it had been in the moment, yet the truth remains that you brought the foe to fight your own men, the foe who killed some among their number to them... and they had trusted you with their lives and their honor.
...yeah. Yeah that's fucked. That's really messed up.

[X] Change something of what you had seen, the past is dead but the future is yet open?
-[X] Limit the power of the inquisition to spy on your own citizenry (Write in)
-[X] Do not Create the Mammon Machine
-[X] Be more careful in your intrigues about causing avoidable deaths (Write in)


I'm willing to drop everything except the last one. Doing that to our own people is fucked.

Anyway, time for the first, last and only ooc thread drama to resolve at long last.

Well I suppose the balance issues but that was a long time ago.
 
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