A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
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- Germany
She doesn't even have remotely the necessary resources to do this. For fucks sake, Naath has less citizens then Red Scales Holding has employees.
What she is doing right now, and which is the sane thing to do, is actually populating the huge island she rules instead of wasting people on trying to colonize the continent of murder.
Naath is larger then half the Stepstones put together, yet it has fewer people then we gain by immigration each month.
- Location
- United States
Alright, I got the wrong impression then. When we got the Blood Maidens and got the influx of Brindled Men refugees, it gave a bonus to Sothoryos colonization, so I thought she was setting up something there.
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- Germany
Yeah, the plan kept propping up, but no matter how we twist and turn it, this isn't a sane thing to do at all. Not with the state Naath and the Basilisk Isles are in. Those places are barely populated at all, despite being much safer then the mainland. Naath is so far away from Sothoryos that it's damn miracle that those Chupacabras actually managed to get there.
Let's prop up the lands we already got and which are somewhat safe before doing anything else.
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- United States
You've already got plans to get that butterfly research underway, but a few things I wanted to address.
The Brindled Men are already immune to the Killer Butterflies. Couldn't we just loan Wyla a band of whatever PCs might be available (this is basically cut in half thanks to the Expedition to Yi Ti, but we have a lot of PCs)? Rather than a trickle of immigrants we could have a dedicated action to round up whatever scattered bands of Brindled Men there are struggling to stay alive in the jungle.
And of course XP for the PCs, but that's it's own reward.
Secondly, there are ruins in Naath that need to be investigated. They were powerful enough to be a challenge for Wyla as a mid-level Vampire Wizard. That could easily hide a threat to the island.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I would say operating for any period of time in Sothoryos pretty much requires access to Mage's Magnificent Mansion and of course Teleport. Fortunately I believe Wyla can learn both? In which case she can lead small groups of PCs in doing so, though her hands are kind of full regardless.
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- Germany
1. We would get a pittance of Brindled Men like that while sitting on millions of former slaves.
2. As far as I remember, Wylla cleared out everything on Naath she was aware of.
Given that the island is the size of Haiti, that doesn't mean much, but neither would a PC group be able to comb there area in a reasonable time-frame.
- Location
- United States
Not necessarily Lya's Magnificent Mansion. Secure Shelter should be equally fine. And yeah, Wyla could learn Magnificent Mansion, and should learn it. Teleport solves most of her problems, and she's getting nifty boots crafted for her very soon.
1. Alright, point. I was just offering a suggestion.
2. If she's already cleared everything then great. I'd want to confirm with DP, though.
If they want to then sure, but I thought they'd be busy in Sorcerer's Deep? Ting has monks to teach, Denys has alchemists to train, Criston to my knowledge was going to train the minotaurs, and Ceria was going to settle in with the Inquisition? I might be getting some of those wrong, but I wasn't going to try to take them away from getting settled in.Also, the above is all sounding like Duesal-speak for "let's powerlevel the Misfits on Southern monsters and ruins".
ryuan
From Zero to Hero!
Speaking of Ser Richard what were the plans for him ad Yi Ti? I know we're supposed to properly unlock Martial Adepts once he takes a crack at it but is he supposed to retrain his early fighter levels for some initiator class for better maneuvers? Or is he fine the way he is?
I'm asking because I'm not sure if his optimization cycle is over.
I'm asking because I'm not sure if his optimization cycle is over.
- Location
- Who knows?
What the.... That was definitely "whores" (see Alinor) I honestly have no Idea what the hell happened there.
I caught my autocorrect this time. Is it trying to censor me now???
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- Germany
Google is actively purging "dirty" words from it's auto-correct on Android to prevent offending someone.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Orwellian.
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- United States
I think that the Balkanization urge of this thread underestimates some of the realities of the situation. Honestly, I think the first huge thing is how often people simply refuse to move somewhere cold or inhospitable because it is uncomfortable, even if there are better/equal opportunities there. A good example in the modern world is that Canada has a larger land area than the United States and arguably greater natural resources and yet it still only has a tenth of the population.
Additionally there is the fact that our improvements are likely to cause a significant increase in urbanization through magical solutions to the problems that faced medieval cities. This has potential to further draw immigrants away from the resource rich areas of the north and instead to the jobs and comfort of cities. This has the potential to be especially problematic for the North since almost all of the cities with any real population or current advantages are in the South.
Fundamentally, unless we spend huge amounts of the Crown's influence and resources building up and developing the North it is seriously unlikely to rival the south for probably near on a thousand years.
Additionally there is the fact that our improvements are likely to cause a significant increase in urbanization through magical solutions to the problems that faced medieval cities. This has potential to further draw immigrants away from the resource rich areas of the north and instead to the jobs and comfort of cities. This has the potential to be especially problematic for the North since almost all of the cities with any real population or current advantages are in the South.
Fundamentally, unless we spend huge amounts of the Crown's influence and resources building up and developing the North it is seriously unlikely to rival the south for probably near on a thousand years.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Merely boosting the infrastructure to a level equal, and likely greater seeing as how it is of similar geographic range as the entire South, means that its native population will grow.
Though the idea of significant and ongoing investment and good land management are on point. The thing is, you're not considering a new factor which Canada for example does not have the advantage of: magic. Widescale magic.
We can trivially engineer a way to make settlements more than comfortable, probably without majorly condensing them either. Elimination of food problems in the North will also lead to short term population explosion since people will not be counting heads so strictly, and elimination of infantile death and those from childbirth with healers will lead to the peasantry, who instead of thinking "we don't have enough bread on the table for two kids and Grandpa so Grandpa has to go 'hunting' this Winter" will be thinking "if we have four more kids we'll have two or three families to work those other plots in a couple of decades". Magnified.
- Location
- The internet
Personally, I have issues smacking the Starks too hard because if anyone in the Rebellion was justifiably pissed, it was the Starks. If Eddard was smart enough to bend the knee, I feel like the three way split would be way more in line with what I think would be both effective and fair.
Practically, if the guy basically in charge of the economy system says that the North needs further splitting not to be a long term problem, I'm inclined to trust him.
Realistically, my personal issues aren't likely to be a problem, because Ned aint bending no knees while Bobby lives. The last interlude we got from his perspective had him declare that he would back his friend even if the Old Gods themselves told him not to. Coming from Ned Stark, that means some shit. Say what you will about him, Ned is one hell of a good friend.
It's just too bad he is so bad at picking his friends.
Practically, if the guy basically in charge of the economy system says that the North needs further splitting not to be a long term problem, I'm inclined to trust him.
Realistically, my personal issues aren't likely to be a problem, because Ned aint bending no knees while Bobby lives. The last interlude we got from his perspective had him declare that he would back his friend even if the Old Gods themselves told him not to. Coming from Ned Stark, that means some shit. Say what you will about him, Ned is one hell of a good friend.
It's just too bad he is so bad at picking his friends.
- Location
- United States
I think my biggest issues with this is that for every advantage this gives the North to leverage, the Southern kingdoms can leverage them harder. We are likely to see a further population boom in the South like was seen in the early days of urbanization. Dorne alone has the potential to turn vast swathes of desert into productive farmland and they already have vastly increased magical capabilities compared to the North. I find it much more likely that overall in Westeros population remains proportionally similar and larger parts of the North end up being worth more as resource outposts rather than fully fledged cities and settlements. This problem is even further increased by the easy transport of goods that magic provides.
If we really want the North to become as powerful as people are indicating, I tend to believe that we would need Mythic scale terraforming and weather altering projects. Otherwise it is far more likely that the North ends up being worth more as a resource exporter (much like Canada and Russia) rather than a center of commerce, magic, and industry.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The Balkanization is pretty insidious at least insofar that it's a clever bit of Mutually Assured Destruction to foment widescale rebellion, because after the Breaking has lasted for more than a decade or so, maybe even a little less, any attempt to foment widescale rebellion has virtually no guarantee of things going back to where they used to be, geographically. Meaning you'd be back to Pre-Conquest era Internecine Warfare plaguing the entire continent. Maybe you'd see some united Kingdoms along de jure geographic lines, but it could be decades.
If the Breaking lasts fifty years, a century, you'd be straight up back to the Age of Heroes with dozens of tiny podunk irretractable Kingdoms that would take centuries, thousands of years to see any real unity.
Or you could play nice and follow the Dragon's orders and things will continue to be relatively peaceful and prosperous.
Actually on second thought, a military campaign with a hypothetical fall of Dragons could end up being lightning fast with such well-developed Imperial Infrastructure and extensive roads and bridges. Bridges that aren't as easy to destroy as wooden ones (though possible with explosives/powerful magic).
So who knows. It would still be pretty difficult and I would certainly hesitate unless I had Tywin or Tyrell-level ambition, or Baelish/Balon level stubborn madness. Or was basically in Aegon's position again, with virtually no one capable of strategically opposing me (which in High Magic Planetos would necessitate having a High Magic empire already, which is a nonstarter in this equation).
If the Breaking lasts fifty years, a century, you'd be straight up back to the Age of Heroes with dozens of tiny podunk irretractable Kingdoms that would take centuries, thousands of years to see any real unity.
Or you could play nice and follow the Dragon's orders and things will continue to be relatively peaceful and prosperous.
Actually on second thought, a military campaign with a hypothetical fall of Dragons could end up being lightning fast with such well-developed Imperial Infrastructure and extensive roads and bridges. Bridges that aren't as easy to destroy as wooden ones (though possible with explosives/powerful magic).
So who knows. It would still be pretty difficult and I would certainly hesitate unless I had Tywin or Tyrell-level ambition, or Baelish/Balon level stubborn madness. Or was basically in Aegon's position again, with virtually no one capable of strategically opposing me (which in High Magic Planetos would necessitate having a High Magic empire already, which is a nonstarter in this equation).
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Well for starters, in order to transform Dorne into a moderately favored Kingdom tier entity into a superpower, extensive terraforming and landscaping would have to be done, same as with the North. Being right next to the Imperial Capital has some downsides--namely all of the greatest jobs will be in our immediate demesne, so we will have some pretty heavy population drag from both sides of the Narrow Sea. See how quickly KL grew, being the largest city despite others like Old Town existing for thousands of years.
We could put in some serious work on the North, and even hope to extend Zathir's blessing over it to moderate the bad weather.
- Location
- United States
Dorne certainly isn't going to be a superpower in the immediate future. However, they are the first kingdom to have a magic academy based on the Scholarum and they are the first kingdom to have the opportunity to establish ties with Essos and the other planes, which should give them a solid leg up.
And I can agree that you do have a point about the North, but only I think if we give them additional special treatment beyond what we are likely to build up to face the long night. And I think it would be unwise to so obviously favor a part of our Empire that has no fundamental loyalty to us in addition to there not being serious benefits to us from it for generations (gottas give those kids time to grow up). Then there is the fact that they ended up holding the idiot ball in Westeros as far as developing magic which should set them back a couple of years from much of the south. Except the fey infested Riverlands... Fuck that's going to be such a mess.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Ultimately there will be teething issues, everywhere, always teething issues. We will have to suck it up and deal with them when they arise, many of them will not be solvable by doing a flyby in dragonform.
Many of them, however, can be, particularly ones which involve someone saber rattling a little too disruptively.
And woe-betide the first idiot who tries to call our bluff and attack a neighbor over something instead of pressing the Crown for arbitrament. I will press hard to make that example swift, sudden, unexpected and harsh.
We would kind of have to do so, after such heavy-handedness in the post-order.
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- United States
Yep, much time and effort will need to be spent establishing the crown's authority and justice after the conquest. In many ways this is going to be more difficult than the initial Targaryen conquest given that we will be doing more to disrupt the society and culture of Westeros. The initial Targaryens mostly just acted as a High King and were happy to more or less leave the existing religion and culture alone. We are planning to make Westeros part of our Imperium which will be much more difficult.
You are absolutely correct that precedents will have be set early, often and likely brutally.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The only nice thing about all of this is that magic means we can be surgical about our savagery in order to impress the neanderthalic "might makes right" or outright idiotically oblivious.
If this was a Low Magic setting and our trump card was basically just having some strategic superweapons to bludgeon enemies into compliance, we wouldn't get to pick and choose our methods there, it would mostly just be hammer and nail, with the nails often including the innocent as an unavoidable consequence.
Edit:
Off-topic, but I am 90% sure that our development of the first global organized spy-network will lead to a huge intelligence arms race. I fully expect similarly organized and well-funded organizations popping up and a bit of a cold war slash rivalry forming between many of them, with favor trading and all kind of chicanery/duplicity/whistle blowing and backstabbing taking place.
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