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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Snowfire said:
Post is gone anyway. But my issue is the 9th/10th difference and I think that's a fair one. And yes, that's a fair point Talon, but you don't get those really nuts effects until high Mythic Ranks. Which again should put this out of our reach, just in a different way.
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The thing is that we get our Mythic Ranks super late. Usually you are expected to have 5-6 of them already by the time you hit the high-levels.

For Viserys though, there are good odds his second Mythic spell will be Timestop.
 
Snowfire said:
It's not what you say, it's how you say it and it always has been. And you know that. Regardless, I have clarified the general sweep of my dislike down to something more specific.
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So, how would you achieve Mythal-like effects if there isn't Epic Spellcasting mechanics available?
 
DragonParadox said:
The thing is I'm not really sure it is worth it to juggle the concepts of both mythic and epic magic. That is not to say I do not respect your reservations but the added mechanical complexity for such a niche thing might not be worth it to the story.

I'm sure we can hammer something out though like we always do. :)
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Then gate it behind the high tier Mythic Spellcasting Augments, instead. At which point we'll probably be waiting as long, but it's more in line with the mechanics you'd like to hold to.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Those are NOT what I have been suggesting. Again, please take into account the fact that I took your suggestions into account and amended my proposal.

Here it is again:
  • Easier language learning while there, for everyone. People can attune to the Mythal for 2
  • 500xp, 1 month of devotion to the OG and a personal sacrifice 2 points of 1 stat of their choice, which cannot recover naturally or be restored through magic).
    • Finally, characters attuned to the mythal may activate any of the following spells by command word, exactly as if it were an ability of a magic item in the character's possession: detect aberration, detect disease, detect magic, detect poison, detect undead, discern lies.
  • Targets of spells with the [cold], [evil] and [death] descriptors can reroll failed saves and take minimal damage from them.
  • The following spells are continually in effect throughout the area of the mythal, much like a spell fixed to a hallow or unhallow effect: protection from evil.

This is a Mythal seed that can later be added to. I suggest trying to increase the spells available to attuned characters, and maybe even the spells attached to it. Silverymoon-lite is a goal! Weirder effects like "it's impossible to steal souls inside" or "our buffs are protected while inside it" are also a goal.
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Alright, here are my objections:
1. I do not want anything of this magnitude tied to whims of one particular god. If we do this, I want to do this the mortal way. Divine aid is fine, but not divine influence or control.
2. Permanently sacrificing 2 stat points for atunement is insane.
3. I'm against messing with magic restrictions and altered effects in any way, shape or form.
 
Snowfire said:
Then gate it behind the high tier Mythic Spellcasting Augments, instead. At which point we'll probably be waiting as long, but it's more in line with the mechanics you'd like to hold to.
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This makes sense, though I'm not sure how high I should make it. That said there is one other practical solution to your issue. Find a high level Genie mage and pay them to help out. Unlike a god they will have no ongoing stake in the enhancement once it is done.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's more that Richard thinks of himself as the person doing the protection not in need of it, so it just did not came up as important enough when Viserys showed up. When Viserys does finally learn of it expect him to be mildly exasperated by Richard's omission.
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It is telling that Richard considers a CR 11 dead-or-alive attempted bounty collection as nothing more than a "minor nuisance not worth mentioning" to Viserys, these days.
 
DragonParadox said:
This makes sense, though I'm not sure how high I should make it. That said there is one other practical solution to your issue. Find a high level Genie mage and pay them to help out. Unlike a god they will have no ongoing stake in the enhancement once it is done.
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Sixth. At minimum. And I'm being insanely generous. The really massive Mythic Augments don't really kick in until MR 8 or 9.
 
DragonParadox said:
This makes sense, though I'm not sure how high I should make it. That said there is one other practical solution to your issue. Find a high level Genie mage and pay them to help out. Unlike a god they will have no ongoing stake in the enhancement once it is done.
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But then it wouldn't be ours.
[X] Azel
//
Edit: At what level could the Wall be constructed? Because that thing is in the vicinity of Mythals.
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
Those are NOT what I have been suggesting. Again, please take into account the fact that I took your suggestions into account and amended my proposal.

Here it is again:
  • Easier language learning while there, for everyone. People can attune to the Mythal for 2
  • 500xp, 1 month of devotion to the OG and a personal sacrifice 2 points of 1 stat of their choice, which cannot recover naturally or be restored through magic).
    • Finally, characters attuned to the mythal may activate any of the following spells by command word, exactly as if it were an ability of a magic item in the character's possession: detect aberration, detect disease, detect magic, detect poison, detect undead, discern lies.
  • Targets of spells with the [cold], [evil] and [death] descriptors can reroll failed saves and take minimal damage from them.
  • The following spells are continually in effect throughout the area of the mythal, much like a spell fixed to a hallow or unhallow effect: protection from evil.

This is a Mythal seed that can later be added to. I suggest trying to increase the spells available to attuned characters, and maybe even the spells attached to it. Silverymoon-lite is a goal! Weirder effects like "it's impossible to steal souls inside" or "our buffs are protected while inside it" are also a goal.
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Well at least you didn't throw detect evil in there...
 
Epic magic is an abomination. Thankfully with @DragonParadox allowing us to use the PF Mythic rules, we can completely ignore that pile of excrement.

Mythals can normally only be created through Epic magic. Since we aren't using Epic magic, Mythals should not be available.

Even the effects of a minor Mythal are ridiculous, capable of exceeding the powers we expect to gain from the Dawn Tree, which is tapped directly into a Divine source of power fueled by the sacrifice of over 2,000 HD in creatures powerful enough to scour all sentient life from Westeros if united in purpose and will.

Think about that, please? The three, possibly four, relatively minor effects we expect to get from the Dawn Tree? That's the equivalent to a chump Mythal slapped together on a budget.

I cannot further express my dislike for the entire concept than I already have.
 
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I'm also rather against them, most of the things they offer we can already do, and we can do it in ways that doesn't give any idiot train need in UMD a "destroy the stepstones" button
 
Azel said:
That isn't better. At all.

"Our city won't kill you on principle, but you will be miserable the entire time!"

Lovely.
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Sigh, I didn't specify an effect to avoid getting bogged down in the details.

My design logic;
a) The Old gods are the goods of Tree and Stone, so it makes sense to have an effect tied to earth.
b) We're about to feed a small mountain of their favored enemies to them.
c) The trees effects are going to island wide
d) It makes sense for the Old Gods to detect their favored enemies in their domain.
That are the themes I think would make a neat package.
If the effect is a penalty, glitter dust or to address your point; removed once the target kneels before the tree/sacrifices some blood/gets touched by Viserys staff, is not really something I care about here*.

*I mean it should still be useful.
 
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I agree with goldfish. True Mythals are usually the creation of at least dozens of mages capable of casting epic spells working together. If we ever do make a True Mythal, it should be in the epilogue.
 
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DkArthas said:
I agree with goldfish. True Mythals are usually the creation of at least dozens of mages capable of casting epic spells working together. If we ever do make a True Mythal, it should be in the epilogue.
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Or one person of high level prior to canon forgotten realms 12 level spell being casted and magic temporarily being shut off.
 
Snowfire said:
Sixth. At minimum. And I'm being insanely generous. The really massive Mythic Augments don't really kick in until MR 8 or 9.
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I see your point, but in that case we might not see any of them at all... I will have to think a little longer on this. It's not like it's going to happen tomorrow regardless.

MTB said:
But then it wouldn't be ours.
[X] Azel
//
Edit: At what level could the Wall be constructed? Because that thing is in the vicinity of Mythals.
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Bran was at the end of his mythic path. I have not really considered if a lesser level would have worked
 
DragonParadox said:
I see your point, but in that case we might not see any of them at all... I will have to think a little longer on this. It's not like it's going to happen tomorrow regardless.
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I'm perfectly fine with Mythals and everything else we have planned like divine batteries being for the quest epilogue or whatever you have planned once Winter is defeated and etc. I'd vastly prefer that over how going the other way would necessitate vast proliferation of this sort of magical architecture. Bluntly, we don't need a Mythal, it would just be cool. And if people in positions of influence are adamant that we have to build it ourselves, then I think it's entirely reasonable to place it out of reach. Some things should be.
 
Azel said:
3. I'm against messing with magic restrictions and altered effects in any way, shape or form.
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Oh I woldn't say that.
I agree that it's bad on the scale of our entire capital, but preparing a battlefield with enhanced fire-effects or impeded [whatever our enemy is most likely to use] sounds like a nice goal for upper tier rituals.
 
Snowfire said:
I'm perfectly fine with Mythals and everything else we have planned like divine batteries being for the quest epilogue or whatever you have planned once Winter is defeated and etc. I'd vastly prefer that over how going the other way would necessitate vast proliferation of this sort of magical architecture. Bluntly, we don't need a Mythal, it would just be cool. And if people in positions of influence are adamant that we have to build it ourselves, then I think it's entirely reasonable to place it out of reach. Some things should be.
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That does raise w world building point too. I did not have planar metropolises have such things either so it's not like the magic to make one is common on the planes either. I think we are going to have to err on the side of 'no Mythals' at least for the near future.
 
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