Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
Azel said:
I don't know. This sounds like something that should require the divine battery I proposed, not something the Old Gods would give us for a one-time payment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd like to ask the OGs to build us the foundation. The...circuit board, I guess? We'll have to find and plug in a battery for it ourselves. As well as all the actual work of putting together the circuits. But they can give us the base on which to work.
 
Snowfire said:
Which means the only way to take the buffs down, regardless of where we are, is to drop the Mythal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...how is that not cheese, again?

I'm pretty sure DP was having trouble with dealing us challenging encounters already.

Doing so with Mythal around would break everyone's SoD for having enemies relatively powerful to the place we encounter them.
 
Snowfire said:
More than this, folks, and this is specifically for @Duesal and tactical planners, it's possible to reverse-link attunemed individuals to a buff scheme anchored by the Mythal itself.

To put this another way, you know all the Persistomancy Dany does? We can take all of it and attach it to the Mythal. Which means the only way to take the buffs down, regardless of where we are, is to drop the Mythal.

Dropping the Mythal would require breaking past the defences of our capital, including two angry deities. In other words, good fucking luck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not against Mythals in general, I'm just against it right now when we've done absolutely none of the groundwork, and when it blows the original effects of the Tree of the Dawn Age out of the water -- even after taking into account that we get four secondary effects rather than three.

I would love a Mythal to ward against disjunction, provided we actually make it properly instead of getting it out of nowhere.
 
Duesal said:
I know you do. I'll actively argue against this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Personally I don't want Mythal's either, they just have no connection to our Empire's magic foundation, eventually we might make something on the same power level, but unless DP give us a defunct Mythal to study, we shouldn't just randomly get the beginning of one.
 
I'll say it again; Mythal effects are simply too powerful. They do too much and reach too far for the cost of them.

I remember being completely dumbfounded by them after I finally learned enough D&D mechanics to look back on the books I had read. They are an example of stuff being written about in a novel that is completely inappropriate to the system, then someone trying to shoehorn it in anyway.
 
Edited, toned-down proposal:
  • Easier language learning while there, for everyone. People can attune to the Mythal for 2500xp, 1 month of devotion to the OG and a personal sacrifice (let's say 2d6 Con damage that can't heal by magic and must recover naturally).
    • Finally, characters attuned to the mythal may activate any of the following spells by command word, exactly as if it were an ability of a magic item in the character's possession: detect aberration, detect disease, detect magic, detect poison, detect undead, discern lies.
  • Targets of spells with the [cold], [evil] and [death] descriptors can reroll failed saves and take minimal damage from them.
  • The following spells are continually in effect throughout the area of the mythal, much like a spell fixed to a hallow or unhallow effect: protection from evil.

This is a Mythal seed that can later be added to. I suggest trying to increase the spells available to attuned characters, and maybe even the spells attached to it. Silverymoon-lite is a goal! Weirder effects like "it's impossible to steal souls inside" or "our buffs are protected while inside it" are also a goal.

@Snowfire, I'm not including the "our buffs become invincible" thing because it's utterly broken considering the scale of our Persistomancy. I'm leaving a toned-down version of it as a suggested future objectives ("our buffs are invincible while within the mythal") because it's cool, but as-is it's stupidly good.
 
egoo said:
...how is that not cheese, again?

I'm pretty sure DP was having trouble with dealing us challenging encounters already.

Doing so with Mythal around would break everyone's SoD for having enemies relatively powerful to the place we encounter them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are some limits. In a place of Another's Power I expect they could cut us off, so buffs will still be important in that regard. It'll also br hella expensive to do, and, more bluntly, not something that will come online for a while.

This is me arguing for long-term planning. Not to get this now.
 
Snowfire said:
I have a feeling that the OG's spending sacrifice juice on this will get something much more powerful than an Ancient Green. Given how much power we're pouring into the Dawn Tree, if we did this I'd be expecting something on the scale of a Divine Herald.

Actually, @DragonParadox would that be in line with the nature of the Old Gods?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An Ancient Green is already CR 21.

You can't really go any higher and leave it free to roam the world without seriously breaking something.
I'm very much against trying for something bigger than an Ancient Green or an advanced version of that CR 17 Plant Dragon.

Edit: Ah, I see the discussion has moved, carry on.
 
Last edited:
@Duesal, a toned-down Mythal is very similar to the previous Dawn Age ideas, and it allows us to work on improving it or attune people to it. Having people attune to it is a cool effect that isn't gamebreaking, and working on improving it is nice.

Basically, I agree with Snowfire: I want to build the foundations to something great. We can use Runelore to pimp it out in the future, but having the Gods provide the foundations is useful.

EDIT: I'm also thinking of making attunement cost only 500 XP, but 2 points of permanent Constitution unhealable Constitution drain (Cha drain for things without Constitution). That way everyday people who live in SD could get attuned and get access to some nice utility magic if they wanted to (Silverymoon has nice effects like Air Walk available, for example). This is just an idea, mind.
 
Last edited:
Duesal said:
I'm not against Mythals in general, I'm just against it right now when we've done absolutely none of the groundwork, and when it blows the original effects of the Tree of the Dawn Age out of the water -- even after taking into account that we get four secondary effects rather than three.

I would love a Mythal to ward against disjunction, provided we actually make it properly instead of getting it out of nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

As above, I'm not arguing for the full package now. I'm wanting to get part of it together for the future. And the Dawn Tree makes for one hell of an anchor.

TalonofAnathrax said:
@Snowfire, I'm not including the "our buffs become invincible" thing because it's utterly broken considering the scale of our Persistomancy. I'm leaving a toned-down version of it as a suggested future objectives ("our buffs are invincible while within the mythal") because it's cool, but as-is it's stupidly good.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's reasonable. Again, I'm not implying that the Dawn Tree sac should just give us all the stuff I'm tossing around. I'd be happy with a completely blank foundation, actually. Just the metaphysical architecture now having been built for us to use once we have a proper power source.
 
To put it bluntly, assuming we do a Mythal, I want to do it myself. Not build on something made by the gods, but built it from the ground up.

We are getting the information about how the Old Gods were made next month from Bloodraven. Let's built something on that.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
@Duesal, a toned-down Mythal is very similar to the previous Dawn Age ideas, and it allows us to work on improving it or attune people to it. Having people attune to it is a cool effect that isn't gamebreaking, and working on improving it is nice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I prefer the Dawn age tree to be an overpowered Heart tree, this is an old gods ritual, it shouldn't randomly give us ancient civilization type items, the old gods are gods of the wild, Mythal's are creations of civilization, they might have something of the same power somewhere in their reward system, but it shouldn't be a Mythal, as a Mythal is very much a thing of civilization, not a thing of the wild.
 
Last edited:
Banning certain spells might har research, but make the island absurdly hardier against our enemies.

So, what is the plan for the tree, originally? Enhanced learning, Protection from Evil and something?
 
Azel said:
Also, if @Goldfish says that Mythal rules are Gorgonzola-grade, I would rather only use them as inspiration anyway and homebrew something sensible together.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I suggest basing your assessment on the rules I'm actually suggesting, rather than a completely different Mythal. :whistle:
Fundamentally, a Mythal is a magical area that holds certain properties like Hallow, and that people can attune to to gain magical abilities while within it. Specific abilities vary a lot from mythal to mythal.
Yes, in Forgotten Realms there are Mythals holding multiple level 9 spell effect (antipathy, for example). But that isn't what we're making, is it?
 
Last edited:
Azel said:
Eh. We got runecrafting and Lya should really get her first Mythic rank one of these days.

Also, if @Goldfish says that Mythal rules are Gorgonzola-grade, I would rather only use them as inspiration anyway and homebrew something sensible together.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Which does nothing to address that the creation of a Mythal type effect is Epic level magic. Which means level 21 for Epic Spellcasting.

Fudging that would be ridiculous.
 
@Azel your divine battery idea is actually shaping up to be both doable and something that has been done before.

The Mythar things are what reminded me.

Leylines are made of the unit claimed divine power collected by random stuff people do.

Of you want to gather and use a large amount of divine power the first step of the build would be to re direct the leylines to the desired location.

Once enough converge boom! Leylines Nexus begins to start spewing psuedo divine energy everywhere.

Then it's simply the matter of containing and directing it. Which can be done any number of ways.

The genius Loci springs to mind. With 21/20 standard of living it's vanishingly unlikely to have anything to complain about.

The Mythar they mentioned would work as well, though it would be a large, dangerous, and unstable complex. That would need defending.

We could sit a god on it...

Hmmmm.

What would be like batteries.

Tass? That's... Not safe. At all.

Hmmmm
 
For the tree I'm thinking Accelerated Language Learning, Death Ward, and Magic Circle Against Evil. No idea for the fourth effect, though.
 
Goldfish said:
I hate Mythals and don't want to use them at all. Ever.
They're too powerful for their cost, prone to failure, and as @TalonofAnathrax's most recent post on the subject illistrates, creating one is basically an invitation for a Bad End to befall that location.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why? As far is I know they are pretty robust, lasting for 1000s of years and only really failing when original builders die off/the entire region is already a ruin/a epic mad wizard starts messing with it. I mean sure, I've also only read/played games where a Mythal was the doomsday battery but they seem to have worked perfectly fine for a long time.

Also I don't quite see the story/mechanical difference between a huge AOE Old God Tree and a Mythal, the mythal is just with higher level effects?
The Mythal is extensible?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top