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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Thanks.



Impressed and slightly jealous, though considering her rate of improvement they have stopped grumbling about 'handing champion's weapons to infants.'

Good night guys, see you tomorrow with more festival intrigues and fights.
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Erinyes: "You know. Forget it!"

Leto: "What--"

Erinyes: "Forget it!! I'm done! I will no longer be skeptical or surprised at these humans exceeding expectations! They don't cower like they should! They send out party invitations to all twenty two of us--"

Mereth: "Twenty one."

Leto: "Didn't I see you there last week?"

Mereth: "They stopped sending them because I asked."

Leto: "...contingent on you going?"

Erinyes: "They can wield the arms of infernal warlords with rapid ease! They can come together in armies that would give companies of barbazu pause!"

Leto: "Did you eat the cake?"

Mereth: "With the lemons?"

Erinyes: "THEY CAN MAKE DREAD CAPTAINS BLOODED UPON THE FIELDS OF AVERNUS RELAX!"

Mereth: "You need to calm down... how about a back massage?

Leto: "That demon-blood apprentice of our Lord has quite dexterous hands."

Erinyes:
 
Posting incomplete builds for overnight C&C by the great people of the thread!
I have their proper character sheets partially written up.
  • Rogue 3 (Poison Use ACF) / Spellthief 2 / Chameleon 4 -> and it's a nice "become increasingly magical" progression, too!
    • Feats: Flaws (Fussy, Pride of Arms), Reactive Resistance, 1 feat tax, Terrifying Strike, Sickening Strike, Venomous Strike, Master Spellthief
    • Stats: Str>Wis>Dex>Con>Int>Cha.
    • Skills: Stealth and trapfinding fist, socials second. Forget knowledge.
    • Tactics: use Chameleon floating feat for Arcane Thesis(Hunter's Eye), then cast Hunter's Eye for extra sneak attack damage. Can reduce sneak attack damage to steal enemy buffs, increase poison DC, sicken opponent and/or make opponent shaken. In total, this means that a target effectively has -6 on their save against poison! Note that the game's deadliest poisons are in fact drugs, not poisons: drug overdose rules are deadly, poisons are just inconvenient. This isn't a problem (you can put drugs on daggers and make the enemy take the -6 to saves) it's just amusing.
    • Warning: Will need to rewrite his spellbook through daily uses of Expanded Arcana through floating feat. Note that putting the floating feat to Alternative Spell Source should allow him to write Hunter's Eye into his spellbook as an arcane spell, thus allowing him to choose Arcane Focus instead of divine to get both Hunter's Eye and necessary spells like Golemstrike or Vinestrike in the same day before the dual focus ability comes online in 3 levels. Having a Chameleon on staff is great for Lya: he can know any spell, she can learn (almost) any spell. Convenient.

  • Drow Paragon 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Unseen Seer 4
    • Feats: Flaws (*2, will pick later), Twin Spell, Arcane Thesis (Elemental Darts), Practical Metamagic (Twin Spell), ???
    • Stats: Cha > Con > Dex > all the rest
    • Skills: Focus on getting into Unseen Seer. Then go for Move Silently, then Knowledge skills.
    • Tactics: According to TNE (a long time ago!), the Volley rule can be ignored if it's a Full-Round action. Therefore this build is based around casting Elemental Darts as a full-round action (with metamagic) to deal a lot of sneak attack damage. Stay invisible (Greater Invisibility) to always get sneak attack. Limited spell list, focused around spells that allow him to operate as a rogue/assassin type. Use Hunter's Eye to get Sneak Attack. With Minor Creation, he could create poison for his buddy to use.

Yes, I know that making him a wizard would have been more powerful. But more spells per day and a spell list that orients him towards the assassin role sounds fluffy.
I'm hesitant; a Sorcerer/Unseen Seer, or a Wizard/Spellguard of Silverymoon? Being able to cast personal spells as touch sounds utterly amazing for a buffer, but focusing on that would reduce attack power. Though in the long term a Wizard/Spellguard of Silverymoon/War Weaver sounds like the ultimate buffer, and getting one would be amazing. And having a buffer recreates the "perfect team" feel I wanted, where they work together: now they just work alongside each other.

Here are other buddy cop teamups I thought of:
  • War Weaver (spiderweb themed) and Chameleon: one to toss out buffs, the other to use poison and/or sneak attack.
  • Conjurer wizard and Hellbreaker, to use ride-along to share Abrupt Jaunt and mobility spells. Wizard brings me in, I kill the target!
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
Posting incomplete builds for overnight C&C by the great people of the thread!
I have their proper character sheets partially written up.
  • Rogue 3 (Poison Use ACF) / Spellthief 2 / Chameleon 4 -> and it's a nice "become increasingly magical" progression, too!
    • Feats: Flaws (Fussy, Pride of Arms), Reactive Resistance, 1 feat tax, Terrifying Strike, Sickening Strike, Venomous Strike, Master Spellthief
    • Stats: Str>Wis>Dex>Con>Int>Cha.
    • Skills: Stealth and trapfinding fist, socials second. Forget knowledge.
    • Tactics: use Chameleon floating feat for Arcane Thesis(Hunter's Eye), then cast Hunter's Eye for extra sneak attack damage. Can reduce sneak attack damage to steal enemy buffs, increase poison DC, sicken opponent and/or make opponent shaken. In total, this means that a target effectively has -6 on their save against poison! Note that the game's deadliest poisons are in fact drugs, not poisons: drug overdose rules are deadly, poisons are just inconvenient. This isn't a problem (you can put drugs on daggers and make the enemy take the -6 to saves) it's just amusing.
    • Warning: Will need to rewrite his spellbook through daily uses of Expanded Arcana through floating feat. Note that putting the floating feat to Alternative Spell Source should allow him to write Hunter's Eye into his spellbook as an arcane spell, thus allowing him to choose Arcane Focus instead of divine to get both Hunter's Eye and necessary spells like Golemstrike or Vinestrike in the same day before the dual focus ability comes online in 3 levels. Having a Chameleon on staff is great for Lya: he can know any spell, she can learn (almost) any spell. Convenient.

  • Drow Paragon 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Unseen Seer 4
    • Feats: Flaws (*2, will pick later), Twin Spell, Arcane Thesis (Elemental Darts), Practical Metamagic (Twin Spell), ???
    • Stats: Cha > Con > Dex > all the rest
    • Skills: Focus on getting into Unseen Seer. Then go for Move Silently, then Knowledge skills.
    • Tactics: According to TNE (a long time ago!), the Volley rule can be ignored if it's a Full-Round action. Therefore this build is based around casting Elemental Darts as a full-round action (with metamagic) to deal a lot of sneak attack damage. Stay invisible (Greater Invisibility) to always get sneak attack. Limited spell list, focused around spells that allow him to operate as a rogue/assassin type. Use Hunter's Eye to get Sneak Attack. With Minor Creation, he could create poison for his buddy to use.

Yes, I know that making him a wizard would have been more powerful. But more spells per day and a spell list that orients him towards the assassin role sounds fluffy.
I'm hesitant; a Sorcerer/Unseen Seer, or a Wizard/Spellguard of Silverymoon? Being able to cast personal spells as touch sounds utterly amazing for a buffer, but focusing on that would reduce attack power. Though in the long term a Wizard/Spellguard of Silverymoon/War Weaver sounds like the ultimate buffer, and getting one would be amazing. And having a buffer recreates the "perfect team" feel I wanted, where they work together: now they just work alongside each other.

Here are other buddy cop teamups I thought of:
  • War Weaver (spiderweb themed) and Chameleon: one to toss out buffs, the other to use poison and/or sneak attack.
  • Conjurer wizard and Hellbreaker, to use ride-along to share Abrupt Jaunt and mobility spells. Wizard brings me in, I kill the target!
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This part...
Warning: Will need to rewrite his spellbook through daily uses of Expanded Arcana through floating feat. Note that putting the floating feat to Alternative Spell Source should allow him to write Hunter's Eye into his spellbook as an arcane spell, thus allowing him to choose Arcane Focus instead of divine to get both Hunter's Eye and necessary spells like Golemstrike or Vinestrike in the same day before the dual focus ability comes online in 3 levels. Having a Chameleon on staff is great for Lya: he can know any spell, she can learn (almost) any spell. Convenient.
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...seems awkward and cheesy.

We could accomplish much the same with a few cheap PoSK.
 
Regular D&D doesn't have a budget that is functionally scaled in available crafter time, which obviates numerous builds with intent to get vast mileage out of every mechanical decision.

Of course @TalonofAnathrax is building for fluff (and making compromises for effectiveness since I think even he realizes he'd have a mutiny on his hands if he did otherwise) so it makes sense.
 
Goldfish said:
This part...

...seems awkward and cheesy.

We could accomplish much the same with a few cheap PoSK.
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PoSK wouldn't work: it's for spontaneous casters with fixed lists (I think). Chameleons learn spells like wizards, and normally work by stealing spellbooks or by using their floating feat for Extra Spell every day to add 1 spell per day to their spellbook. Takes a while and costs gold, but is more dependable than hoping for a convenient enemy wizard.
My plan for his spellbook was either to have him use extra spell, or to have him use Alternative Spell Source and have him scribe divine spells into his spellbook (for him to be able to prepare them on days when he chooses to be an arcane caster instead of a divine one).

No overall build comments? PrCs, etc?

Edit: Crake is correct. Fluffwise these two should be assassins, but the Assassin PrC is pretty bad (it's inferior to single-classed Rogue outside of some very specific builds that only come into their own very late, IMO) and I want to foster a 2-person dynamic between them, focusing on skills, stealth and murder. Hence why I've been seggedting several types of dynamics: a melee poisoner and a DPS focusing on elemental darts, a teleporter and a Hellbreaker poisoner, a buffer and a melee sneak attacker...
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
PoSK wouldn't work: it's for spontaneous casters with fixed lists (I think). Chameleons learn spells like wizards, and normally work by stealing spellbooks or by using their floating feat for Extra Spell every day to add 1 spell per day to their spellbook. Takes a while and costs gold, but is more dependable than hoping for a convenient enemy wizard.
My plan for his spellbook was either to have him use extra spell, or to have him use Alternative Spell Source and have him scribe divine spells into his spellbook (for him to be able to prepare them on days when he chooses to be an arcane caster instead of a divine one).

No overall build comments? PrCs, etc?
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The builds themselves look really neat and fluffy, especially for a pair of male Drow assassins. I can see how, through proper preparation and teamwork, they were able to take down a Drow Priestess powerful enough, or with enough favor from Lolth, to curse them so harshly.

Rather than cheesing the floating feat to get the spells needed, why not do something different than anything seen in the quest so far? They could have both made extensive use of Inscribe Magic Tattoo to gain additional abilities. Several of the example tattoos provided would work really well for the pair, but magic tattoos can also duplicate the effects of Wondrous Items, though with double the normal cost because they are slotless. The Chameleon could easily have a tattoo of 3/Day Hunter's Eye, another of Vinestrike, etc.
 
Goldfish said:
The builds themselves look really neat and fluffy, especially for a pair of male Drow assassins. I can see how, through proper preparation and teamwork, they were able to take down a Drow Priestess powerful enough, or with enough favor from Lolth, to curse them so harshly.

Rather than cheesing the floating feat to get the spells needed, why not do something different than anything seen in the quest so far? They could have both made extensive use of Inscribe Magic Tattoo to gain additional abilities. Several of the example tattoos provided would work really well for the pair, but magic tattoos can also duplicate the effects of Wondrous Items, though with double the normal cost because they are slotless. The Chameleon could easily have a tattoo of 3/Day Hunter's Eye, another of Vinestrike, etc.
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That would be rather unique, and also Venthar seemed rather wealthy, so they likely could have had patronage rich enough to afford something that ostentatious. Also, waaay more low key than items, which fits in with the whole Assassin vibe.
 
@Goldfish, I finally hunted everything down for the number of our Lotus Leshies.
Duesal said:
[X] Azel Standin Vote
-[X] 3 Leaf with +1 CR templates
-[X] 3 Fungal with +1 CR templates
-[X] 3 Seaweed with +1 CR templates
-[X] 1 Lotus with +1 CR templates
-[X] 1 Snapdragon with +1 CR templates
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Goldfish said:
[X] Plan "Flora Force, Assemble!"
-[X] Advanced, Giant, Leaf Leshy (x15 Free, x1 450 IM)
-[X] Advanced, Giant, Fungal Leshy (x4; Free)
-[X] Fungal, Hippogriff (x10, 450 IM each [4,500 IM total]) - Without the Poison Spore Cloud ability, if possible.
-[X] Advanced, Druid Creature, Lotus Leshy (x3; 1,800 IM each [5,400 IM total])
-[X] Druid Creature, Treant (x2; 4,800 IM each [9,600 IM total])
-[X] Total: 19,950 IM
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Goldfish said:
[X] Plan "Birds of a feather, murder together"
-[X] A trio of Erinyes will be temporarily assigned to the Lyseni Embassy once their equipment is finished being enchanted this month and their links to Hell severed. In addition to protecting Hermetia and our Lyseni holdings, they will serve as her enforcers and messengers while trying to keep their true natures hidden. Stress to them that this is a position of trust, as they have proven their abilities and earned an opportunity to further advance our interests.
--[X] When the time comes to introduce Hermetia to the Erinyes, instruct her on how to treat them to best utilize their capabilities without causing them to grow bored or dissatisfied with their duties.
-[X] Create six Advanced Druid Seaweed Leshy in the Fungal Forge as crew members for the Queen Rhaella.
-[X] Create three Advanced Druid Lotus Leshy and three Advanced Leaf Leshy to accompany Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest who hold vigil North of the Wall.
-[X] Offset the cost of the Leshy by feeding Harpy corpses, along with the corpse of the Fire Giant Richard killed in his duel, to the Fungal Forge.
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Azel said:
[X] Plan Wolves and Gardens
-[X] Mulch up the entire current corpse stockpile (260 HD total, max CR 5).
-[X] 27x Advanced Plant-Imbued Direwolf
--[X] 13 got to the Night Watch
--[X] 4 go to Salladhor and Wylla (2 each) to show them the advantages of bringing us corpses
--[X] 2 go to the Silver Eye to get them in on the corpse business
--[X] 8 stay in SD for the time being, so that the Inquisition and B-Parties can have their aid when needed
-[X] Make a large batch of plant creatures who will live in a paradisaical garden you will grow around the Dragons Roost. Gardening is a great hobby to unwind after all.
--[X] 1x Guardian Lotus Leshy (Advanced Creature, Druid Creature) - Will be the leader of the assorted plants.
--[X] 4x Advanced Sunflower Leshy - As a go-between for most of the Leshy Tribe and the people visiting the garden.
--[X] 13x Advanced Poppy Leshy, riding a Giant Advanced Awakened Leaf Ray - The Leshy as the main gardeners and the Leaf Rays to enhance mobility of the whole tribe. And because it is awesome. The Leaf Rays should be produced fully awakened, as to make sure that the spirits inhabiting them are willing. The awakening is necessary to make sure they don't attack random people.
--[X] 8x Advanced Leaf Leshy - As general muscle for the tribe.
--[X] 3x Advanced Fungus Leshy - To tend to the compost.
--[X] 6x Advanced Living Topiary - As help for the tribe and for decoration.
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Goldfish said:
-[X] Order: Giant Fungal Darkenbeasts (x30), Advanced Druid Creature Lotus Leshy (x1),
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Azel said:
[X] Try to find the cat and only if that doesn't work out, try something else.
-[X] Add it to the things to be done when you visit the Red Keep again. Which will be soon, considering you also want to have a certain Spider.
-[X] Fungus Forge production:
--[X] Mulch up everything except the Hero Killer Xenarth.
--[X] 1,000 Giant Fungal Darkenbeasts, who are covered entirely in HD
--[X] 12 Giant Fungal Darkenbeasts for a total of 10,800 IM
--[X] 46 Advanced Druid Creature Lotus Leshies for a total of 110,400 IM
--[X] 10 Advanced Plant-Imbued Gigantic Manta Rays, mostly covered in HD and let's just charge 8,800 IM for the rest
--[X] Total Price: 120,000 IM
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Azel said:
---[X] 16x Advanced Druid Creature Lotus Leshy // with our new production run, I want one of them on every ship for buffs
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x70 Advanced Druid Lotus Leshies, then, to answer your original question @Goldfish. Not sure how many we assigned out of our reach though.
 
Crake said:
x70 Advanced Druid Lotus Leshies, then, to answer your original question @Goldfish. Not sure how many we assigned out of our reach though.
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We left a couple to help in New Lyceos, left three with Bloodraven, and recently assigned five to return to the Riverlands with the Lads, that I can recall. The front page still shows that we only have four of them, though.

Good to know that we have plenty left over. I'll remind DP to update their numbers.
 
Duesal said:
I'm actually fairly confident we'd be able to take one down if we planned well enough, even if it would be a tough fight.

I hope there's still one left for us.
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Weirdly enough I believe we could take down one very easily.
These are very weak for CR 21.

The danger is propably either in classlevels or hordes of fleshcrafted minions, because in the baseline creature I can't see anything terribly dangerous.
The saves are low, the HP nothing spectecular, the magic only middling.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Weirdly enough I believe we could take down one very easily.
These are very weak for CR 21.

The danger is propably either in classlevels or hordes of fleshcrafted minions, because in the baseline creature I can't see anything terribly dangerous.
The saves are low, the HP nothing spectecular, the magic only middling.
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Yeah, at 14 HD, it has no business having the CR it does. There are no default servants which the "standard Sarrukh" walks around with, which could make up for that CR if sufficiently powerful and in sufficient numbers.

Hell, with fairly mild shenanigans you can straight up kill it with a Holy Word, and it's trivial for someone to whom CR 21 would be a hell of a boss fight to no-save paralyze and coup de grace it.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Hell, with fairly mild shenanigans you can straight up kill it with a Holy Word, and it's trivial for someone to whom CR 21 would be a hell of a boss fight to no-save paralyze and coup de grace it.
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With those saves they need a lot of good equipment just to avoid being turtled or smoked in the first move.

Once they have that we can go to the no-save tricks.
 
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