It's the price of her trying to meddle in our sister's life.

We are nothing if not vindictive.

Hell if we pull this off it's even more proof to her that trying to grab Dany was the right idea, imagine what could be done if we were in her service after all.

Probably the whole reason she even got involved with F!Aegon to begin with, she was banking on finding another, well, us basically.
 
Time travel? Where are you getting that from? No seriously, I'm curious.

A combination of things.

Let's start with process of elimination.

Right now I'm assuming only one Law is really being broken in a meaningful manner. Why? A combination of narrative and environmental awareness. We dealt with the guy who was at best bending the Third and Fourth Laws (Mental Violation Laws), we dealt with a Coven/Business/Rockefeller of Warlocks who were working 3rd/4th and 1st (Human Murder) violations at minimum. That leaves 2nd (Shapechanging others), 5th (Unwilling Human Necromancy), 6th (Time Travel), and 7th (Outer Gates Fuckery). This situation reads as an immensely emotionally complicated conflict, so we're going to discount 1st and 3rd/4th Law violations offhand due to how they'd "simplify" the emotional situation to a point.

I read "Black Magic user, safe area, no evidence of magical interference, no former Formor presence" and it says "No long lasting easily seen magical effects, powerful enough to beat off the Formor, but still needs the versatility to resolve Crime."

The First and Second Laws are not sufficient for repelling Formor alone. They can help combat, yes, but not they're not "Keep them out of this town" tier, so they're not the big ticket item here. Plus they don't Solve Crime, unless you're turning the criminals into squirrels or stoats and unleashing them upon your enemies. While the Second could be violated in an immensely large manner to turn mundanes into Formor Fighters and for Healing, this is very much reading like a solo operation so far.

The Third and Fourth have obvious magical visibility, so unless the puppets are being stored deep in the house this is a nonstarter. The Fourth could be violated on the basis that it's the only one that actually applies to Non-Humans, so the Warlock could have a bunch of Fey enslaved, but that would get a round of resounding applause from the thread unless played for very realistic horror. If they're being violated against Humans, this Warlock is either bizarrely uneducated about what the Wardens are about, or is an amazing bluffer and is about to pull a very strong ambush.

Plus Word of Sword suggests that Molly 2.0 is not the plot here.

The 5th Law is discounted on three counts. The first amounts to "The Unwilling restriction is almost hilariously easy to work around once you get a sense for the Dead and have enough mojo to protect yourself." The second boils down to "Necromancy isn't subtle when you need it on big enough levels." And the third spells out "If there was an Army of the Dead here in Anti-Formor amounts, this would have been a much higher priority."

If this was a 7th Law violation then this would have been a War Party rather than a delayed check in to see whom the fuck is going on. While I can see this as a plot point segway into the conflict of Viserys's origins, this doesn't feel like quite the right place for that. Plus, visibility necessary to deal with the Formor and it doesn't directly deal with the Lack-Of-Crime element.

That leaves the 6th Law. Time Travel. The Deus Ex Machina of bullshit. The Law that OG Merlin himself played with to make The Prison to be run by The Warden.

If anything was going to provide the leverage and versatility necessary to keep out the Formor while also allowing for the general all encompassing improvement of the Community and resolving All Crime Vectors, it would be The Groundhogs Day Loop writ large.

Of all the Laws, the 6th is basically the only one that's not self intuitive from general modern morals and ethics as well as modern pop culture mystical lore. Don't murder people, don't do things without other people's consent, don't mind fuck people, don't desecrate the Dead, and don't make deals with the Devil. When it comes to Time Travel, modern pop lore amounts to "Don't fuck it up" not "Don't do it at all" and the basic situation read here is "I did it. I finally did it. The Cthulu fucks were kept out of town, everyone is safe, happy, and healthy, the Community as a whole is doing great, and I lasted long enough for the Big Dick Wizards to get here and help. Everything is fine now so I don't need them, but I will never say no to actual help for my beloved people."

The conflict of this section of the Arc is likely how to deal with a blatant, flagrant, unrepentant, Law Breaker who legitimately has only helped people. The Mental Warping of 6th Law Breaking is likely "The Obsessive Pursuit of Perfection" which is something that Viserys is going relate to immensely, especially when this person managed to win.

Assuming my various assumptions are correct, Viserys is going to have some immense internal conflict because "A competent person with a rare magic specialization who legitimately just wants to help make things better in this crapsack world, and is absolutely in need of institutional support" is damn near catnip to both him and the thread at large.

She was using Air of Nobility with a +6 charisma bonus so +16.

Doesn't Sense Motive provide a +2 SYN bonus to Diplomacy?
 
Last edited:
A combination of things.

Let's start with process of elimination.

Right now I'm assuming only one Law is really being broken in a meaningful manner. Why? A combination of narrative and environmental awareness. We dealt with the guy who was at best bending the Third and Fourth Laws (Mental Violation Laws), we dealt with a Coven/Business/Rockefeller of Warlocks who were working 3rd/4th and 1st (Human Murder) violations at minimum. That leaves 2nd (Shapechanging others), 5th (Unwilling Human Necromancy), 6th (Time Travel), and 7th (Outer Gates Fuckery). This situation reads as an immensely emotionally complicated conflict, so we're going to discount 1st and 3rd/4th Law violations offhand due to how they'd "simplify" the emotional situation to a point.

I read "Black Magic user, safe area, no evidence of magical interference, no former Formor presence" and it says "No long lasting easily seen magical effects, powerful enough to beat off the Formor, but still needs the versatility to resolve Crime."

The First and Second Laws are not sufficient for repelling Formor alone. They can help combat, yes, but not they're not "Keep them out of this town" tier, so they're not the big ticket item here. Plus they don't Solve Crime, unless you're turning the criminals into squirrels or stoats and unleashing them upon your enemies. While the Second could be violated in an immensely large manner to turn mundanes into Formor Fighters and for Healing, this is very much reading like a solo operation so far.

The Third and Fourth have obvious magical visibility, so unless the puppets are being stored deep in the house this is a nonstarter. The Fourth could be violated on the basis that it's the only one that actually applies to Non-Humans, so the Warlock could have a bunch of Fey enslaved, but that would get a round of resounding applause from the thread unless played for very realistic horror. If they're being violated against Humans, this Warlock is either bizarrely uneducated about what the Wardens are about, or is an amazing bluffer and is about to pull a very strong ambush.

Plus Word of Sword suggests that Molly 2.0 is not the plot here.

The 5th Law is discounted on three counts. The first amounts to "The Unwilling restriction is almost hilariously easy to work around once you get a sense for the Dead and have enough mojo to protect yourself." The second boils down to "Necromancy isn't subtle when you need it on big enough levels." And the third spells out "If there was an Army of the Dead here in Anti-Formor amounts, this would have been a much higher priority."

If this was a 7th Law violation then this would have been a War Party rather than a delayed check in to see whom the fuck is going on. While I can see this as a plot point segway into the conflict of Viserys's origins, this doesn't feel like quite the right place for that. Plus, visibility necessary to deal with the Formor and it doesn't directly deal with the Lack-Of-Crime element.

That leaves the 6th Law. Time Travel. The Deus Ex Machina of bullshit. The Law that OG Merlin himself played with to make The Prison to be run by The Warden.

If anything was going to provide the leverage and versatility necessary to keep out the Formor while also allowing for the general all encompassing improvement of the Community and resolving All Crime Vectors, it would be The Groundhogs Day Loop writ large.

Of all the Laws, the 6th is basically the only one that's not self intuitive from general modern morals and ethics as well as modern pop culture mystical lore. Don't murder people, don't do things without other people's consent, don't mind fuck people, don't desecrate the Dead, and don't make deals with the Devil. When it comes to Time Travel, modern pop lore amounts to "Don't fuck it up" not "Don't do it at all" and the basic situation read here is "I did it. I finally did it. The Cthulu fucks were kept out of town, everyone is safe, happy, and healthy, the Community as a whole is doing great, and I lasted long enough for the Big Dick Wizards to get here and help. Everything is fine now so I don't need them, but I will never say no to actual help for my beloved people."

The conflict of this section of the Arc is likely how to deal with a blatant, flagrant, unrepentant, Law Breaker who legitimately has only helped people. The Mental Warping of 6th Law Breaking is likely "The Obsessive Pursuit of Perfection" which is something that Viserys is going relate to immensely, especially when this person managed to win.

Assuming my varuous assumptions are correct, Viserys is going to have some immense internal conflict because "A competent person with a rare magic specialization who legitimately just wants to help make things better in this crapsack world, and is absolutely in need of institutional support" is damn near catnip to both him and the thread at large.



Doesn't Sense Motive provide a +2 SYN bonus to Diplomacy?
@Snowfire will this be making it into your horse thief update?

Viserys logic is our logic technically.
 
And another +6 for Grand Destiny and Heroism?

OK that would have impacted things, though not specifically in the interlude, only in my notes so I don't have to ret-con anything.

Anyway vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 23, 2019 at 1:08 PM, finished with 42 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Approach Sandor
    -[X] Take Leto (for now still disguised) and Dany along.
    -[X] Congratulate him on how far he got so far and that he showed admirable will in his last fight.
    -[X] Since Leto destroyed his sword, lend him a Adamantine bastard sword. It is only lended because you have a feeling Sandor will win another blade before the melee is over.
    -[X] Ask him why he came here, despite being Cerseis lap dog.
 
Too much narrative logic.
He wouldn't rule out that it is one of the more common lawbreakings again based on the idea that that wouldn#t work after just having dealt with those already.
That version of Viserys had a lot more extensive dealing with Fey than us at this point.

I fear he might take "narrative causality" into consideration :o
[:V]
 
Last edited:
Who makes most of the plans depends on what phase of the quest we're in. I end up doing a lot of the combat plans and detail work, Duesal handles looting and acqusition, egoo minor actions, Snowfire is the psychologist, Azel handles being a Devil and all that entails, etc. And everyone is really good about incorporating suggestions from other posters into their plans.

Festival month has given me a nice break from doing much planning. ;)

As much as they are a lot of work for you, I very much enjoy battle planning, myself.
And another +6 for Grand Destiny and Heroism?

And a bloodwish "imbue spell like ability: voice of the dragon" ;), @DragonParadox
Edit: (just messing about :D)

Edit: that is, I greatly enjoy your work, @Goldfish, and enjoy contributing what I can :D
 
Last edited:
Too much narrative logic.
He wouldn't rule out that it is one of the more common lawbreakings again based on the idea that that wouldn#t work after just having dealt with those already.

There's also practical political reasons as well.

I personally expect the White Council to have fully, or mostly, known the details of which cases Dresden and Viserys were going to have access to and to have knowledge beyond what the initial files stated.

Setting The Human Dragon up for three different cases (one which has room for mercy, one which is an obvious and easy knife fight, and one which is an absolute hot mess that forms the crux of the problem between Viserys and the Council) to see his reactions and measure him is basically literally the purpose of this exercise.

That this last file seems to be so sparse beyond "Warlock here" should have all sorts of red flags that would have caused Viserys to be passively on guard. That this lead up lacks all the signs that the Obviously Evil set up had means that this one is going to be more complicated, if only due to the inherit paranoia engrained into all adventurers that survive past their first few level ups.

The specific narrowing down is much less likely to be pulled off by Viserys, but that's due to him likely having an innate reaction/assumption that it's easier to hide magic than it actually is in the Dresden Files. Hiding an undead army, a devilish legion, or 6th Circle Magic is a lot easier in ASWaH once you achieve sufficient magical power than it would be if you're similarly magically strong in DF.

Otherwise, he's leagues more intelligent than I am, has had a lot more time to think through the information, and is a lot more experienced in checking through situations for all sorts of tricky bullshit than I am. Viserys calculating out what type of Warlock he's dealing with isn't as impossible as it might seem.
 
Last edited:
Getting Cersei to froth with rage is a goal in of itself. We are getting her a level of barbarian. Sooner or later, we will succeed.
 
Getting Cersei to froth with rage is a goal in of itself. We are getting her a level of barbarian. Sooner or later, we will succeed.

I almost want to encourage you to come up with another needlessly complex scheme like with Lys that seems almost to outpace its usefulness by the point we actually enact the final parts of it on Cersei, one where we literally take everything away from her without being hammer on nail about it. Turn her brother against her. Make her Dad abandon her. Make her kids miserable in the Red Keep and happy outside of it.

It's like, really, if you think about it, aside from being a general nuisance to some of our minor bannermen (and only minor now because we haven't built them up into local superpowers yet) what has she done to us to deserve this? What rational cause could we have?

There are some political reasons you could dredge up but let's face it.

We did it Because It Amused Us.
 
I almost want to encourage you to come up with another needlessly complex scheme like with Lys that seems almost to outpace its usefulness by the point we actually enact the final parts of it on Cersei, one where we literally take everything away from her without being hammer on nail about it. Turn her brother against her. Make her Dad abandon her. Make her kids miserable in the Red Keep and happy outside of it.

It's like, really, if you think about it, aside from being a general nuisance to some of our minor bannermen (and only minor now because we haven't built them up into local superpowers yet) what has she done to us to deserve this? What rational cause could we have?

There are some political reasons you could dredge up but let's face it.

We did it Because It Amused Us.

Honestly? Yeah. Cersei is a bitch but honestly hasn't been to horrific to us so far. She's been great at alienating pretty much everyone else (also in canon considering the utter lack of ladies in waiting or a court) and the joke about Crakclaw Point was way back before magic was commonly known about, though it wouldn't have hurt her to try and pretend to be gracious...
 
Honestly? Yeah. Cersei is a bitch but honestly hasn't been to horrific to us so far. She's been great at alienating pretty much everyone else (also in canon considering the utter lack of ladies in waiting or a court) and the joke about Crakclaw Point was way back before magic was commonly known about, though it wouldn't have hurt her to try and pretend to be gracious...

Cersei /=/ Graciousness
 
Alright, here's what I have for Yss-related stuff...

[] The foul artifact you found, the Orb of Dragonkind, is just too much of a danger to you and yours to keep around. But breaking it can lead to a being far more powerful than you can take even with all preparations you can afford, breaking out.
-[] Can Yss eat the Red Orb of Dragonkind, while also consuming the entity within, not having us to keep this dangerous thing around while we find means of containment?

[] You have seen the echoes of long-dead gods of Valyria, and heard their pleas for return... But also you have seen the baleful being that still endures in the heart of the Doomed Valyria.
-[] Ask Yss if resurrecting gods of Valyria, like Syrax or Meraxxes and not keeping any connections to the 15th is psosible. Would he, a god with domains of Life and Death, be capable of such feat if given a sufficient infusion of energy?

[] Lore/fluff questions on Yss/Jazirian/Sseth's nature
[] Lore/Fluff questions on order of Plane Material and Spheres in the time he was actually young.

[] Ask if it's possible for him/us to make his periods of sleep between meals shorter?

[] You have born an idea of a plan. A way to strike at your most hated enemy in a decisive way, one sure to forever scar the many-hued-bitch, if not a sure thing just yet.
-[] Ask Yss what his price would be for taking part in creation of an artifact out of Varys' god-denying trinket, a piece made together with other gods we manage to diplomance into this, a way to snare Tiamat's power when it is exerted over the wearer... Like young Aegon, who is trapped in her web of lies.

[] Feed him a few spiders and have him break the curse of spider-goddess on those mortals we've found months ago back in Sothoryos.

Basically, that's all the points I want to hit with him.

Finding out whether he'll be able to deal with the Orb, which is otherwise going to gather dust for a while.
Finding out whether Valyrian gods have a way out of connection with the 15th, if any. Yss is kinda the best bet here, what with the "rebirth" theme.
Finding out his price-list for a plan-in-making beforehand.
And some assorted lore/fluff on him and his counterparts.

@Duesal? @Azel? I'm pretty sure one of you wanted to ask some questions related to divine too, back when I proposed this...

Posting this here now because am too sleepy, and may miss tomorrow's updates/voting due to getting ready for a trip.
Being too sleepy is also the reason for leaving blanks at "fluff/lore"-section. Ask Duesal, or something.
 
I almost want to encourage you to come up with another needlessly complex scheme like with Lys that seems almost to outpace its usefulness by the point we actually enact the final parts of it on Cersei, one where we literally take everything away from her without being hammer on nail about it. Turn her brother against her. Make her Dad abandon her. Make her kids miserable in the Red Keep and happy outside of it.

It's like, really, if you think about it, aside from being a general nuisance to some of our minor bannermen (and only minor now because we haven't built them up into local superpowers yet) what has she done to us to deserve this? What rational cause could we have?

There are some political reasons you could dredge up but let's face it.

We did it Because It Amused Us.
Cersei is just one of those persons everyone loves to see miserable, since she has zero redeeming qualities and enough faults for 5 people. Even her "love for her children and family" is a bad joke when you think about it. It's all about her and her alone, everyone else around her just existing to fulfill her own desires.

I'm not inclined to build elaborate plots with the sole purpose to make her suffer though. That's pointless self-indulgence. But if we can rile her up with a cheap shot now and then? Gladly. Because she will lash out in response. And whenever she lashes out, she drives more people into our open arms.
 
Back
Top