My point is that he'll come back if we call, because he's that crazy dutiful. He died in Braavos away from his family defending a seriously doomed cause, for our sake!
But would he accept necromancy from anyone else or for any other reason? And do we actually need his service and protection anymore, despite what he may think considering the information he has?
IMO, no to both. That's my IC argument against raising him.
I want him because we can probably hit him with Cyclic Reincarnation and toss him into the meat grinder to become a PC. We can put him in the Legion after that if he's game for it, or maybe even make him a candidate for the Knightly Griffon Riders' Order.
Composite Armor
While the matter of giving the Inquistion better tools to hunt their quarry was being addressed, others thought about the other side of the coin. Ever since the founding of the Legion, it had become apparent that the supply of metals from the Plane of Earth and the heavy use of magic in it's forging would make even heavy armor easy and cheap to acquire. However, while this greatly helper to protect soldiers and even regular Inquisition agents adequately for their work, the high risk and the special skill sets of the first Inquisitors still presented a problem. Bulky armor was hardly inconspicuous when not working in the open and the Inquisitors usually preferred to fight by spell and trickery then facing the monsters head on like a knight would. This made regular armor all but impossible to use for them and while abjuration magic could close the gap somewhat, it left them vulnerable to ambushes by prepared foes.
Thus it was that the finest artisans and enchanters of the then young Imperium were called together to create an armor that was flatly impossible. It shouldn't hinder the wearer in any way, yet leave no gaps or chinks in his defense. It should be light and inconspicuous, yet stop even the blades of demonic warriors. Yet despite the apparent insanity of these goals, these artisans succeed. What they created had little to do with the plate mail that had been the pinnacle of their craft just a few years earlier and it didn't even use any metal. Instead from sorcery and flesh-crafting was wrought an almost living carapace, unifying the arts of all those that had helped it's design.
The base materials for the Composite Armor are artificial spider silk and a special sap that had been derived from that of the Weirwood tree for it's receptiveness to arcane manipulation, both of which are produced in special laboratories under the control of the Imperium. The silk is woven into cloth that makes up a comparatively mundane base layer for the armor, not dissimilar from thin cloth armor. Part of the silk however is woven into long strips, which are then stacked and encased in the sap to receive differently shaped plates of deep red resin, which is then hardened by arcane spellwork. These plates can easily stop even an Adamantine blade, yet remain flexible.
From these parts the suit is put together, using the expertise of imperial magesmiths, fey artisans and celestial spellwork to create an armor that has so far no equal in the world.
Composite Armor
Class: Light Armor
Armor Bonus: +8
Max Dex Bonus: +10
Armor Check Penalty: -0
Arcane Spell Failure: 0%
Weight: 12 lb.
Hardness: 22
HP: 50
DR 2/-
Special:
- This armor must be created like a magic item by a caster with the Create Magic Arms and Armor Feat.
- It can not be made from any special materials.
- It counts as a +1 item for the purpose of further enchanting.
- This armor contains no metal.
- It is non-obtrusive and can be worn under bulky clothing without being obvious.
Crafting Cost: 2,200 IM
Market Value: 4,400 IM
Construct Armor
The art of breathing a semblance of life into what was wrought from iron and sorcery is an old one, known in all the spheres. Deathless, tireless and loyal beyond the slightest doubt, constructs served as both guardians and warriors since times long forgotten. Yet they are not without their foibles. Their simple minds need the guidance of a master to do more the simplest of tasks. And guardians they need in turn, lest those skilled in the arts of magic snare them just the same as the mortals their forms often mimic. Many tried to overcome these limitations, trying to kindle the spark of true sentience in heads filled with naught but crystal and sorcery, yet this too is costly to achieve and not without it's own perils. And even those minds so rarely grew beyond what they had been made, the alien nature of their being precluding them from growing on their own.
Some though saw another path to unite unyielding steel with the skill and cunning of a warriors mind. If the flesh could not become like adamant and metal would never truly take the spark of life into itself, then why not look into a simpler solution? Since the first war was fought across the planes, Angel and Demon alike wore beaten bronze and iron on their bodies, protecting themselves with it's hardness when their own resilience would have failed them. But what now if one did more then that? If the armor were not dead weight to be carry around, but moved with the wearer? How much might it be left to grow if it was not the flesh's burden to carry it?
Construct Armor is the result of these thoughts. Less suit of armor and more a golem that can be worn, they are mindless things of tremendous strength and durability, wrought in painstaking work by master artisans and enchanters. Only the mightiest of champions could afford such a suit and attract the attention of a patron with the means to even make them, but in return, they turn their wearers into demi-gods on the battlefield.
This type of armor has some special rules associated with it:
- When active, only half the weight of a Construct Armor is counted against the wearers encumbrance, as the armor bears some of it's own load.
- Not the full weight of a Construct Armor must be made of special materials to gain their special effects. For each point of Armor Class the armor provides, it needs 6.5 lb. of a material to gain it's benefits, rounded up to the next multiple of 5 lb. This is the actual weight of the armor plating of the suit. The remainder of the weight of the armor is taken up by thick padding and arcane machinery needed for the suit to function.
- Each set of Construct Armor has a given maximum land speed given in it's entry. Replace the standard movement speed of the bearer with this value while he wears this armor.
- The armor plates, weighing 5 pounds per point of AC, must be made of a metal with a base Hardness of at least 15, otherwise they would not be able to withstand the forces the armor is meant to protect from.
- A suit also requires 2 pounds of Mithral per point of AC for internal structures and reinforcements.
- Due to the bulk of the armor, any magical effect increasing Land Speed is halved and rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 feet.
All suits of Construct Armor produced under the aegis of the Dragon Emperor share the following traits and abilities. Suits from other sources might differ in their capabilities.
Custom Tailored
Each suit of Construct Armor is made specifically for one bearer and one bearer only. Despite it's bulk, the inner layers must sit like a second skin and a myriad of minor spells and enchantments must be attuned to the wearer to properly function. Each suit only works for it's designated bearer and to attune a existing suit to a new owner costs 10% of it's total cost and the work of a skilled enchanter. Should a person not attuned to an armor try to use it, it might just fail to respond to his commands or, at the worst, malfunction and injure if not kill the person.
Unhindered Sight
The thick plate of hardened crystal that serves as the visor filling of the armor was enchanted to pierce through effects that might occlude the bearers vision. At all times, the wearer sees as if under the effect of the spells Snow Sight and Fire Eyes.
Environmental Adaption
By adding thick layers of woven spiders silk and meticulously sealing every last gap in the suit, this armor has become tightly sealed from the outside world. It also has it's own internal air supply, provided by special enchantments and making the wearer immune to all attacks that would require him to breath in a substance, such as alchemical poison flasks or spells like Cloudkill. Furthermore, special wardings and enchantments of movement were woven into these fabrics. Due to this, the wearer of the armor is protected from temperature extremes as per the Endure Elements spell at all times and avoids all planar effects on planes he visits as per the spell Avoid Planar Effects. The wearer also gains a Swim Speed of half the suits Land Speed, takes no penalty to attacks or movements under water and can ignore the armors Armor Check Penalty for Swim checks. Should the internal air supply fail, the wearer can spend a Move action to open a hidden port on the armor which allows him to draw in the surrounding air, filtered through an Auran Mask. The price of this is though that it is impossible to don or remove this armor without aid and that this process takes 10 minutes.
Enhanced Dexterity
By spending extra effort and care into making the armor flexible, especially the hands, the suits made on orders of the Dragon Emperor are uncommonly nimble compared to other sets. Their land speed is 10 ft higher then normal, their Armor Check Penalty is lowered and the lighter suits still allow the bearer to use some of his natural dexterity, despite the bulk enclosing him.
Enhanced Strength
By layering many enchantments to increase the speed and strength of movements on this suit of armor, it greatly aids the wearer both in combat and with out. Each set of armor gives a specific bonus to Strength. This bonus is untyped and always stacks. Furthermore, the wearers Strength is considered to be 8 points higher for the purpose of Encumbrance.
Hardened Materials
By treating each part of the armor by special rituals during the construction process and incorporating Adamantine components in it's structure and padding layers, the armor provides a damage reduction of DR x/-, with x being half the Armor Bonus, rounded down. This requires 2 pounds of Adamantine per point of DR gained. As this armor was designed specifically for Praetori, this durability meshes well with their own enhanced physique and thus DR stacks with the DR 2/- gained from the Praetori template.
Improved Comfort
The inner layers of the armor were enchanted to provide additional comfort to the wearer and to better distribute the weight of the armor and anything he carries. While in this suit, the bearer takes no penalties from Medium Load, can march for 10 hours a day without requiring Constitution checks for exhaustion and the armor is comfortable enough to sleep in it as if it were Light Armor.
Regal Design
Quite some time and magic was spent to make this armor functional and a bit of those resources also went into making it impressive to behold. Between the obvious might of this suit and how well known the design is among friend and foe alike, it provides a +2 Competence Bonus on Diplomacy and a +1 Moral Bonus to Will saves to all allies within 30 ft. of the wearer. Furthermore, the armor cleans itself and can change it's color as per the Glammered enchantment, though it can't alter it's form. However, this makes the suit hard to miss, imposing a -5 Penalty on Hide checks.
Far-Speech
Within the helmet sits a face mask that allows the wearer of this suit to easily speak with his comrades from afar. Within a range of 10 miles, the wearer of the suit can speak to others who have similarly enchanted gear and even send messages to a Whispering Brazier within this range. He can also receive messages from a Whispering Brazier regardless of range and without prior attunement, as long as the Brazier is on the same plane.
Arcane Wardings
Wrought from Valyrian Steel and enhanced by the finest mage-smiths, the armor plates of this suit provide defense like no other. Even the touch of deathless spirits shies away from the fiend blooded steel. This suit of armor has the Ghost Ward property and thus adds it's Enhancement Bonus to Touch AC, even against incorporeal attackers, not it's regular Armor Bonus though. The height of the Enhancement Bonus is given for each suit individually.
Types of Construct Armor
Warden Pattern Armor
Armor Bonus 10
Enhancement Bonus +3
Maximum Dexterity Bonus +2
Armor Check Penalty -6
Land Speed 30 ft.
Weight 100 lb.
Strength +2
DR 5/-
Cost: 50 lb. of Imperial Steel (worth 10,000 IM); 20 lb. of Mithral (worth 2,000 IM); 10 lb. of Adamantine (worth 800 IM); 4,000 IM for enchanting; Total cost of 16,800 IM
Market Value: 33,600 IM / 168,000 GP
Cost to readjust to new wearer: 1,680 IM / 8,400 GP
Warden Pattern Shield
Fearsome Ghost Ward Extreme Shield +3 with Greater Lifekeeping Crystal
Shield Bonus 3
Enhancement Bonus +3
Armor Check Penalty -4
+5 on saves against energy drain attacks, inflict spells, and death effects; reroll 1 such failed save per day
+5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
Cost: 28 lb. of Imperial Steel (worth 5,600 IM); 1,000 IM; Total cost of 6,600 IM
Market Value: 13,200 IM / 66,000 GP
Warlord Pattern Armor
Armor Bonus 13
Enhancement Bonus +4
Maximum Dexterity Bonus +1
Armor Check Penalty -8
Land Speed 25 ft.
Weight 160 lb.
Strength +4
DR 6/-
Cost: 80 lb. of Imperial Steel (worth 16,000 IM); 30 lb. of Mithral (worth 3,000 IM); 20 lb. of Adamantine (worth 1,600 IM); 6,000 IM for enchanting; Total cost of 26,600 IM
Market Value: 53,200 IM / 266,000 GP
Cost to readjust to new wearer: 2,660 IM / 13,300 GP
Warlord Pattern Shield
Fearsome Ghost Ward Extreme Shield +4 with Greater Lifekeeping Crystal
Shield Bonus 3
Enhancement Bonus +4
Armor Check Penalty -4
+5 on saves against energy drain attacks, inflict spells, and death effects; reroll 1 such failed save
+5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
Cost: 28 lb. of Imperial Steel (worth 5,600 IM); 1,700 IM; Total cost of 7,300 IM
Market Value: 14,600 IM / 73,000 GP
Titan Pattern Armor
Armor Bonus 15
Enhancement Bonus +5
Maximum Dexterity Bonus 0
Armor Check Penalty -10
Land Speed 20 ft.
Weight 210 lb.
Strength +6
DR 7/-
Cost: 100 lb. of Imperial Steel (worth 20,000 IM); 45 lb. of Mithral (worth 4,500 IM); 25 lb. of Adamantine (worth 2,000 IM); 10,000 IM for enchanting; Total cost of 36,500 IM
Market Value: 73,000 IM / 365,000 GP
Cost to readjust to new wearer: 3,650 IM / 18,250 GP
Titan Pattern Shield
Fearsome Ghost Ward Extreme Shield +5 with Greater Lifekeeping Crystal
Shield Bonus 3
Enhancement Bonus +5
Armor Check Penalty -4
+5 on saves against energy drain attacks, inflict spells, and death effects; reroll 1 such failed save
+5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
Cost: 28 lb. of Imperial Steel (worth 5,600 IM); 2,500 IM; Total cost of 8,100 IM
Market Value: 16,200 IM / 81,000 GP
Honestly, it's kind of SoD-breaking for me to do this now.
We had resurrection spell for, what, 6000 pages now? 7000?
I generally don't care about going around resurrecting people. Important or not.
For example, had I been here when the vote was made, you would have found me not caring much about rezzing Rhaella either.
But this is just kind of weird to do at this point, having ignored it for so long.
My point is that he'll come back if we call, because he's that crazy dutiful. He died in Braavos away from his family defending a seriously doomed cause, for our sake!
But would he accept necromancy from anyone else or for any other reason? And do we actually need his service and protection anymore, despite what he may think considering the information he has?
IMO, no to both. That's my IC argument against raising him.
I just want you to be aware, but basically a plurality of the "Rez Darry" camp is either set on gently encouraging him to retire to his family lands or on giving him the sincere choice to retire. He's more than done his service to us and this is more a character moment than a specific mechanical advantage moment.
Duesal's desire for a new Legion General or similarly tiered person being an exception from what I've seen.
I just want you to be aware, but basically a plurality of the "Rez Darry" camp is either set on gently encouraging him to retire to his family lands or on giving him the sincere choice to retire. He's more than done his service to us and this is more a character moment than a specific mechanical advantage moment.
Duesal's desire for a new Legion General or similarly tiered person being an exception from what I've seen.
Honestly, it's kind of SoD-breaking for me to do this now.
We had resurrection spell for, what, 6000 pages now? 7000?
I generally don't care about going around resurrecting people. Important or not.
For example, had I been here when the vote was made, you would have found me not caring much about rezzing Rhaella either.
But this is just kind of weird to do at this point, having ignored it for so long.
It is weird in that the impact of Darry was left off to the side, but that's just growing pains and a focus on immediate survival at the start of the thread.
Honestly, a flashback interlude expanding on the role he had in our life wouldn't be out of place in my opinion, especially if the "visit the Darrys" option wins.
Finally, my write-up is done. Thanks to @TotallyNotEvil here for feedback on this, and of course to @DragonParadox for enabling my insanity.
@Goldfish, as a side note, DP told me that +2 Enhancement Bonus of VS counts only as a +1 Bonus for the purpose of further enchanting, thus the Titan Pattern having +5 Ghost Ward.
Construct Armor
The art of breathing a semblance of life into what was wrought from iron and sorcery is an old one, known in all the spheres. Deathless, tireless and loyal beyond the slightest doubt, constructs served as both guardians and warriors since times long forgotten. Yet they are not without their foibles. Their simple minds need the guidance of a master to do more the simplest of tasks. And guardians they need in turn, lest those skilled in the arts of magic snare them just the same as the mortals their forms often mimic. Many tried to overcome these limitations, trying to kindle the spark of true sentience in heads filled with naught but crystal and sorcery, yet this too is costly to achieve and not without it's own perils. And even those minds so rarely grew beyond what they had been made, the alien nature of their being precluding them from growing on their own.
Some though saw another path to unite unyielding steel with the skill and cunning of a warriors mind. If the flesh could not become like adamant and metal would never truly take the spark of life into itself, then why not look into a simpler solution? Since the first war was fought across the planes, Angel and Demon alike wore beaten bronze and iron on their bodies, protecting themselves with it's hardness when their own resilience would have failed them. But what now if one did more then that? If the armor were not dead weight to be carry around, but moved with the wearer? How much might it be left to grow if it was not the flesh's burden to carry it?
Construct Armor is the result of these thoughts. Less suit of armor and more a golem that can be worn, they are mindless things of tremendous strength and durability, wrought in painstaking work by master artisans and enchanters. Only the mightiest of champions could afford such a suit and attract the attention of a patron with the means to even make them, but in return, they turn their wearers into demi-gods on the battlefield.
This type of armor has some special rules associated with it:
- When active, only half the weight of a Construct Armor is counted against the wearers encumbrance, as the armor bears some of it's own load.
- Not the full weight of a Construct Armor must be made of special materials to gain their special effects. For each point of Armor Class the armor provides, it needs 6.5 lb. of a material to gain it's benefits, rounded up to the next multiple of 5 lb. This is the actual weight of the armor plating of the suit. The remainder of the weight of the armor is taken up by thick padding and arcane machinery needed for the suit to function.
- Each set of Construct Armor has a given maximum land speed given in it's entry. Replace the standard movement speed of the bearer with this value while he wears this armor.
All suits of Construct Armor produced under the aegis of the Dragon Emperor share the following traits and abilities. Suits from other sources might differ in their capabilities.
Custom Tailored
Each suit of Construct Armor is made specifically for one bearer and one bearer only. Despite it's bulk, the inner layers must sit like a second skin and a myriad of minor spells and enchantments must be attuned to the wearer to properly function. Each suit only works for it's designated bearer and to attune a existing suit to a new owner costs 10% of it's total cost and the work of a skilled enchanter. Should a person not attuned to an armor try to use it, it might just fail to respond to his commands or, at the worst, malfunction and injure if not kill the person.
Unhindered Sight
The thick plate of hardened crystal that serves as the visor filling of the armor was enchanted to pierce through effects that might occlude the bearers vision. At all times, the wearer sees as if under the effect of the spells Snow Sight and Fire Eyes.
Environmental Adaption
By adding thick layers of woven spiders silk and meticulously sealing every last gap in the suit, this armor has become tightly sealed from the outside world. It also has it's own internal air supply, provided by special enchantments and making the wearer immune to all attacks that would require him to breath in a substance, such as alchemical poison flasks or spells like Cloudkill. Furthermore, special wardings and enchantments of movement were woven into these fabrics. Due to this, the wearer of the armor is protected from temperature extremes as per the Endure Elements spell at all times, gains immunity to alignment traits of all planes he visits and can move easier under water. The wearer gains a Swim Speed of half the suits Land Speed, takes no penalty to attacks or movements under water and can ignore the armors Armor Check Penalty for Swim checks. Should the internal air supply fail, the wearer can spend a Move action to open a hidden port on the armor which allows him to draw in the surrounding air, filtered through an Auran Mask. The price of this is though that it is impossible to don or remove this armor without aid and that this process takes 10 minutes.
Lightning Resistance
Like in an effort to remove one more weakness from the Praetori for which these suits have been designed, each armor grants the wearer Resistance to Electricity 10.
Enhanced Dexterity
By spending extra effort and care into making the armor flexible, especially the hands, the suits made on orders of the Dragon Emperor are uncommonly nimble compared to other sets. Their land speed is 10 ft higher then normal, their Armor Check Penalty is always -4 and the lighter suits still allow the bearer to use some of his natural dexterity, despite the bulk enclosing him.
Enhanced Strength
By layering many enchantments to increase the speed and strength of movements on this suit of armor, it greatly aids the wearer both in combat and with out. Each set of armor gives a specific bonus to Strength. This bonus is untyped and always stacks. Furthermore, the wearers Strength is considered to be 8 points higher for the purpose of Encumbrance.
Hardened Materials
By treating each part of the armor by special rituals during the construction process, it could be made even more resilient. The armor grants DR 5/-. As this armor was designed specifically for Praetori, this durability meshes well with their own enhanced physique and thus DR stacks with the DR gained from the Praetori template.
Improved Comfort
The inner layers of the armor were enchanted to provide additional comfort to the wearer and to better distribute the weight of the armor and anything he carries. While in this suit, the bearer takes no penalties from Medium Load, can march for 10 hours a day without requiring Constitution checks for exhaustion and the armor is comfortable enough to sleep in it as if it were Light Armor.
Regal Design
Quite some time and magic was spent to make this armor functional and a bit of those resources also went into making it impressive to behold. Between the obvious might of this suit and how well known the design is among friend and foe alike, it provides a +2 Competence Bonus on Diplomacy and a +1 Moral Bonus to Will saves to all allies within 30 ft. of the wearer. Furthermore, the armor cleans itself and can change it's color as per the Glammered enchantment, though it can't alter it's form. However, this makes the suit hard to miss, imposing a -5 Penalty on Hide checks.
Far-Speech
Within the helmet sits a face mask that allows the wearer of this suit to easily speak with his comrades from afar. Within a range of 10 miles, the wearer of the suit can speak to others who have similarly enchanted gear and even send messages to a Whispering Brazier within this range. He can also receive messages from a Whispering Brazier regardless of range and without prior attunement, as long as the Brazier is on the same plane.
Arcane Wardings
Wrought from Valyrian Steel and enhanced by the finest mage-smiths, the armor plates of this suit provide defense like no other. Even the touch of deathless spirits shies away from the fiend blooded steel. This suit of armor has the Ghost Ward property and thus adds it's Enhancement Bonus to Touch AC, even against incorporeal attackers, not it's regular Armor Bonus though. The height of the Enhancement Bonus is given for each suit individually.
Types of Construct Armor
Warden Pattern Armor
Armor Bonus 10
Enhancement Bonus +3
Maximum Dexterity Bonus +2
Armor Check Penalty -4
Land Speed 30 ft.
Weight 100 lb.
Strength +2
DR 5/-
Lightning Resistance 10
Cost: 65 lb. of Valyrian Steel; 8,000 IM
Warden Pattern Shield
Fearsome Ghost Ward Extreme Shield +3 with Greater Lifekeeping Crystal
Shield Bonus 3
Enhancement Bonus +3
Armor Check Penalty -4
+5 on saves against energy drain attacks, inflict spells, and death effects; reroll 1 such failed save per day
+5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
Cost: 28 lb. of Valyrian Steel; 1,800 IM
Warlord Pattern Armor
Armor Bonus 13
Enhancement Bonus +4
Maximum Dexterity Bonus +1
Armor Check Penalty -4
Land Speed 25 ft.
Weight 160 lb.
Strength +4
DR 5/-
Lightning Resistance 10
Cost: 85 lb. of Valyrian Steel; 13,000 IM
Warlord Pattern Shield
Fearsome Ghost Ward Extreme Shield +4 with Greater Lifekeeping Crystal
Shield Bonus 3
Enhancement Bonus +4
Armor Check Penalty -4
+5 on saves against energy drain attacks, inflict spells, and death effects; reroll 1 such failed save
+5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
Cost: 28 lb. of Valyrian Steel; 2,500 IM
Titan Pattern Armor
Armor Bonus 15
Enhancement Bonus +5
Maximum Dexterity Bonus 0
Armor Check Penalty -4
Land Speed 20 ft.
Weight 210 lb.
Strength +6
DR 5/-
Lightning Resistance 10
Cost: 100 lb. of Valyrian Steel; 21,000 IM
Titan Pattern Shield
Fearsome Ghost Ward Extreme Shield +5 with Greater Lifekeeping Crystal
Shield Bonus 3
Enhancement Bonus +5
Armor Check Penalty -4
+5 on saves against energy drain attacks, inflict spells, and death effects; reroll 1 such failed save
+5 to Intimidate [Enhancement], can demoralize foe as Move action
Cost: 28 lb. of Valyrian Steel; 3,300 IM
It's obvious you've put a lot of work into these armors, dude, but they're insane...and not in a good way.
I'm not sure where you're pulling pricing from (that book @TotallyNotEvil mentioned?), and I haven't taken the time to figure up the costs for every feature you've included in each armor, but I can tell at a glance that they are seriously under priced using anything approaching D&D crafting rules. Really, really under priced.
Even if they weren't under priced, they still cost way too much. 9800 IM for just the armor and shield for the least powerful of the three sets is making my teeth hurt.
It only costs 6,000 IM to enchant a new Herald or 5,900 IM to enchant one of our new Anti-Grav Fightercraft. Why on earth would we ever spend 9800 IM on a set of armor and a shield for a super-soldier unlikely to ever exceed ECL 8?
Praetorians already cost 4,000 IM to create, which is not a trivial expense. Their basic gear is another 3,757 IM. I thought my suggestions of upgrades for the higher level Praetorians was too much, and that was only another 3,614 IM.
I'm sorry, dude, but there is just no way this is in any way feasible.
@DragonParadox Since when is Valyrian Steel, with its innate +2 Enhancement, considered to have just a +1 Enhancement for enchanting purposes? Has it always been like that and you just never told us? It seems like a strange exception to an already exceedingly cheap way of getting +2 gear.
It's not just the cost itself, but the required crafting time. And I'm not joking about those things being under priced. The effects @Azel has listed for them should cost far more than the prices given.
We would be better off mass producing Herald Constructs.
It's obvious you've put a lot of work into these armors, dude, but they're insane...and not in a good way.
I'm not sure where you're pulling pricing from (that book @TotallyNotEvil mentioned?), and I haven't taken the time to figure up the costs for every feature you've included in each armor, but I can tell at a glance that they are seriously under priced using anything approaching D&D crafting rules. Really, really under priced.
It's obvious you've put a lot of work into these armors, dude, but they're insane...and not in a good way.
I'm not sure where you're pulling pricing from (that book @TotallyNotEvil mentioned?), and I haven't taken the time to figure up the costs for every feature you've included in each armor, but I can tell at a glance that they are seriously under priced using anything approaching D&D crafting rules. Really, really under priced.
Even if they weren't under priced, they still cost way too much. 9800 IM for just the armor and shield for the least powerful of the three sets is making my teeth hurt.
It only costs 6,000 IM to enchant a new Herald or 5,900 IM to enchant one of our new Anti-Grav Fightercraft. Why on earth would we ever spend 9800 IM on a set of armor and a shield for a super-soldier unlikely to ever exceed ECL 8?
Praetorians already cost 4,000 IM to create, which is not a trivial expense. Their basic gear is another 3,757 IM. I thought my suggestions of upgrades for the higher level Praetorians was too much, and that was only another 3,614 IM.
I'm sorry, dude, but there is just no way this is in any way feasible.
Firstly, the goal is not to stuff every Praetori into one of these. Veterans, champions, people with more then ECL 10.
As for the pricing, I did indeed use the book TNE mentioned as a base. That's where the high base AC and a few of the bonuses are coming from, namely DR, Lightning Resistance and the STR bonuses, with all of those already priced in higher then the base book.
Firstly, the goal is not to stuff every Praetori into one of these. Veterans, champions, people with more then ECL 10.
As for the pricing, I did indeed use the book TNE mentioned as a base. That's where the high base AC and a few of the bonuses are coming from, namely DR, Lightning Resistance and the STR bonuses, with all of those already priced in higher then the base book.
Firstly, the goal is not to stuff every Praetori into one of these. Veterans, champions, people with more then ECL 10.
As for the pricing, I did indeed use the book TNE mentioned as a base. That's where the high base AC and a few of the bonuses are coming from, namely DR, Lightning Resistance and the STR bonuses, with all of those already priced in higher then the base book.
I would like to see the pricing given for each individual ability or effect, because there is something really wrong here. Those prices are just too low.
On top of that, you're stacking redundant or inferior effects;
-Why pay to add a +10ft speed Enhancement when their boots already give +30ft?
-Each Praetorian has DR 2/-- and DR 5/Chaos (which becomes DR 10/Chaos at 11 HD). DR 5/-- is nice, but not worth spending extra on.
-Maximum Dexterity Bonus; why increase it, when their Dexterity attribute is not high enough to take advantage of it?
-Ghost Warding is extremely niche and should, at most, be reserved for a specialist unit, not placed on every piece of gear.
-Etc.
I would like to see the pricing given for each individual ability or effect, because there is something really wrong here. Those prices are just too low.
On top of that, you're stacking redundant or inferior effects;
-Why pay to add a +10ft speed Enhancement when their boots already give +30ft?
-Each Praetorian has DR 2/-- and DR 5/Chaos (which becomes DR 10/Chaos at 11 HD). DR 5/-- is nice, but not worth spending extra on.
-Maximum Dexterity Bonus; why increase it, when their Dexterity attribute is not high enough to take advantage of it?
-Ghost Warding is extremely niche and should, at most, be reserved for a specialist unit, not placed on every piece of gear.
-Etc.
Could you first make up your mind what is too expensive? Because I've already went with TNE over this and free-form adjusted the price upwards and I would not like to spend another hour picking apart the details of something you already seem dead set against.
@Azel to attempt to put this in context, the ability enhancement alone on the Warden Armour, assuming it was enhancement and not untyped, would set us back 900 IM. Given that it is untyped and therefore stacks, well at this point we're departing the item creation rules entirely. I'd probably double the cost at least. Which leaves us at most of two thousand IM for a single part of the armour - a quarter of its cost.
It gets worse from here.
The general 'base' abilities line by line in terms of cost would be great to see, but I agree with @Goldfish wholeheartedly. They're far too low.
@Azel to attempt to put this in context, the ability enhancement alone on the Warden Armour, assuming it was enhancement and not untyped, would set us back 900 IM. Given that it is untyped and therefore stacks, well at this point we're departing the item creation rules entirely. I'd probably double the cost at least. Which leaves us at most of two thousand IM for a single part of the armour - a quarter of its cost.
It gets worse from here.
The general 'base' abilities line by line would be great to see, but I agree with @Goldfish wholeheartedly. They're far too low.
The book prices the Strength boost at 500 IM, 1,800 IM and 4,200 IM for +2 / +4 / +6. On TNE's urging, I instead priced it in at twice the Enhancement cost, so 800 IM / 3,200 IM / 7,200 IM.
Also, a +2 Item is 400 IM base price, not 900 IM.
Edit: In case that wasn't clear, I've given the creation cost, not the market value.
-Why pay to add a +10ft speed Enhancement when their boots already give +30ft?
-Each Praetorian has DR 2/-- and DR 5/Chaos (which becomes DR 10/Chaos at 11 HD). DR 5/-- is nice, but not worth spending extra on.
-Maximum Dexterity Bonus; why increase it, when their Dexterity attribute is not high enough to take advantage of it?
-Ghost Warding is extremely niche and should, at most, be reserved for a specialist unit, not placed on every piece of gear.
-Etc.
1. Armor hasn't been created purely for Praetorians, so I made no assumptions about other gear. So I rather paid for a speed boost in the armor itself then making them glaciers without adding another piece of mandatory equipment.
2. See above, not purely made for Praetorians.
3. The stats given are with the increase. Normally they would give +1, 0, 0.
4. It shores up their Touch AC and there are plenty of attacks that go against Touch AC, so I don't see why this is niche.
The book prices the Strength boost at 500 IM, 1,800 IM and 4,200 IM for +2 / +4 / +6. On TNE's urging, I instead priced it in at twice the Enhancement cost, so 800 IM / 3,200 IM / 7,200 IM.
Ah, misread which thing Enhancement referred to. My apologies.
Even so, the fact that it's untyped is...questionable. To further put this in context, Pathfinder has Power Armour. They're artefacts with no listed price, with stats that can be found here. Note that their enhancements to ability scores are not untyped. Creating equal things or better from whole cloth like this isn't just suspect to my own sensibilities, the idea that we're coming up with it on our own from whole cloth threatens my SoD in a way the anti-grav warships you want to build actually don't. Skyships are something that exist, we're just doing it a different way.
Could you first make up your mind what is too expensive? Because I've already went with TNE over this and free-form adjusted the price upwards and I would not like to spend another hour picking apart the details of something you already seem dead set against.
To get DR 5/Magic on a suit of armor requires a +3 Enhancement, Invulnerability. That would require a minimum +1 Enhancement bonus as a base, making for a +4 armor pricing-wise. That would cost 1600 IM for just DR 5/Magic, which is far inferior to DR 5/--. But the armor already has a +3 Enhancement bonus, so to put Invulnerability on it would raise it to an effective +6 Enhancement, which would cost 3,600 IM.
Resistance 10 to Electricity damage costs 1,800 IM to put on a suit of armor.
Expeditious, an armor enchantment which provides a +10 Enhancement to movement speed costs 400 IM.
So just to approximate three of the enchantments on the Warden Armor should cost 5,800 IM, and as I pointed out, the DR provided in this manner is subpar. Your armor, on the other hand, has a ton of other stuff packed into it on top of that, and only costs 8,000 IM. There is no way you can reasonably squeeze in an untyped Strength bonus of +2, what amounts to a Whispering Brazier, a Comfort enchantment, Commander enchantment, two vision enhancement spells, and the various effects needed to give it a full environmental seal and life support for just 2,200 IM.
@Azel, please don't get me wrong here, I think the armors you came up with are really neat and would fit in well in a different setting, but I don't see them working here. If I sat down and worked out the pricing for just the Warden Armor, I have a feeling it should cost closer to 14,000+ IM and I would still be fudging some stuff to make it fit.
To get DR 5/Magic on a suit of armor requires a +3 Enhancement, Invulnerability. That would require a minimum +1 Enhancement bonus as a base, making for a +4 armor pricing-wise. That would cost 1600 IM for just DR 5/Magic, which is far inferior to DR 5/--. But the armor already has a +3 Enhancement bonus, so to put Invulnerability on it would raise it to an effective +6 Enhancement, which would cost 3,600 IM.
Resistance 10 to Electricity damage costs 1,800 IM to put on a suit of armor.
Expeditious, an armor enchantment which provides a +10 Enhancement to movement speed costs 400 IM.
So just to approximate three of the enchantments on the Warden Armor should cost 5,800 IM, and as I pointed out, the DR provided in this manner is subpar. Your armor, on the other hand, has a ton of other stuff packed into it on top of that, and only costs 8,000 IM. There is no way you can reasonably squeeze in an untyped Strength bonus of +2, what amounts to a Whispering Brazier, a Comfort enchantment, Commander enchantment, two vision enhancement spells, and the various effects needed to give it a full environmental seal and life support for just 2,200 IM.
These are not added as enchantments, they are fixed cost additions from the steam armor chapter from Steam & Sorcery. Just read that book.
DR 5/- is priced at 900 IM there as a mundane reinforcement of the already super-heavy armor. Much the same as how Constructs get their DR.
Resistance 10 Electricity likewise, costing 600 IM that way and it's impossible to get more then one type of resistance on the suit.
Same for the +10ft speed, which are alleviating the suits ponderousness and priced at 400 IM. You can't go faster with this, you just can go a little bit less slow.
