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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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All that said, as much as I loathe his methods, as much as I hate the horse he rode in on, a formidable man, perhaps one of the last formidable men, someone who truly sees beyond their own nose, has gone out like a light in Westeros.

It's only too bad the direction he was looking was not up, but down.

He might have seen the dragons before he did the chasm.
 
Snowfire said:
To put this another way, Varys is much like us if Viserys was even more paranoid, had no friends, and therefore had descended into the circular logic paranoia pit of "Any means justify my end."
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Actually, if Viserys had been weaker (no OP PrCs, fewer and weaker Companions...) I could totally see him doing Varys-like things. Allying with evil to fight evil? Makes sense! Devils are better than Illithid, right? And we totally have a plan to beat them afterwards! The thread's morality chain is real, but so is its hubris and willingness to take risks.
[shrug]
Viserys seems to have done more outright good than Varys has, but I could see things going differently. We do share a lot on concerns with him, of course. If we'd distrusted Gods as much as we distrusted Extraplanar allies, if we'd had no Companions or if they'd turned against us somehow...
 
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MTB said:
After the infodrain, and only when Yss has finished digesting his latest meal. There's also the minor problem of transporting him, now that Mammon (and grandma) are aware of Varys' new status.
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We Greater Teleport direct to Yss' Sanctum, after warning him. Or Plane Shift to the Divine Realm that he should have now that @DragonParadox said he's a full deity again. I invite a quasi-deity to try and interfere with that.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Actually, if Viserys had been weaker (no OP PrCs, fewer and weaker Companions...) I could totally see him doing Varys-like things. Allying with evil to fight evil? Makes sense! Devils are better than Illithid, right? And we totally have a plan to beat them afterwards! The thread's morality chain is real, but so is its hubris and willingness to take risks.
[shrug]
Viserys seems to have done more outright good than Varys has, but I could see things going differently. We do share a lot on concerns with him, of course. If we'd distrusted Gods as much as we distrusted Extraplanar allies, if we'd had no Companions or if they'd turned against us somehow...
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Actively trying to instigate a civil war in Westeros although magic awakened etc. - and he was aware of that - now.
 
Snowfire said:
We Greater Teleport direct to Yss' Sanctum, after warning him. Or Plane Shift to the Divine Realm that he should have now that @DragonParadox said he's a full deity again. I invite a quasi-deity to try and interfere with that.
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Mammon: *plane-shifts in* "I have come for what is my due, you old leather belt!"
Viserys: "Hey there... long time no see..."
Yss: "I call dibsss on thisss body...."
Mammon: :o
 
Snowfire said:
We Greater Teleport direct to Yss' Sanctum, after warning him. Or Plane Shift to the Divine Realm that he should have now that @DragonParadox said he's a full deity again. I invite a quasi-deity to try and interfere with that.
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... When Yss awakens on 16th of this month, not only will we be feeding him some spiders to de-curse those drow, not only will we be feeding him Tor in order to get lore on Yss himself and his counterparts (and whether he'd be able to rezz Meraxes via Dragon Orb without the connection to 15th), but now we are going to feed him Varys too?
That poor, poor snek.
 
Azel said:
Mammon: *plane-shifts in* "I have come for what is my due, you old leather belt!"
Viserys: "Hey there... long time no see..."
Yss: "I call dibsss on thisss body...."
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Realtalk here, if Mammon could even enter Yss' divine realm, Yss would absolutely kick his ass without any help required from us. You do not fight a deity in their Realm unless you have similar power, a mitigating device, or a death wish. Any combination of the three works too.
 
@Duesal Hey real quick can you ask bloodraven for any Stormlands/Stannis related/adjacent info or plots either Varys or Bloodraven have going on? We do need to get started on that pretty soon.
 
MTB said:
After the infodrain, and only when Yss has finished digesting his latest meal. There's also the minor problem of transporting him, now that Mammon (and grandma) are aware of Varys' new status.
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Leave the bottle in with BR untill Yss is awake. Trestride to the binding tree or one of the thematically appropriate trees (bravvos tree for stealth?) and then teleport to Yss' temple directly.

Or if after 500k HD tree, then can straight up walk to BR, pick up bottle (with cloak), walk back untill we're on the sd side of the connection and then cast celerity and greater teleport.
TalonofAnathrax said:
I'm not saying we forgive him - but maybe we could make use of him somehow? Bind him and incentivize him?
He's slippery, but we're pretty good too.
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Stick a tree root in his brain and use him as a hard drive with necessary material, for the puropose of allowing the controller/boss of the simlarcisim access to the knowledge needed to play the role convincingly.
#VarysIsHelping

Of course, as was pointed out, Mammon (and probably Tiamat) will know that he's taken out, so there is a chance their forces will put some effort into blowing our replacements cover.

Just something to keep in mind imo.
 
Viserys seems to be an anomaly in that he didn't pick three amigos to truck around with like most PCs ever get up to, he didn't try to muscle through it all on his own like Varys and Zherys did, trusting no one.

No, Viserys took it up to 11 and gathered a dozen high leveled PCs, another dozen low-to-middle level PCs, and defied all conventional logic and started manufacturing an army of mages and enchanters.

Of course both Varys and Zherys have access to PCs and an army of mages, in at least a roundabout fashion, but none so loyal or trustworthy as what Viserys has a snap of his fingers away at any moment.

Want to go halfway across the world to ambush one of the most dangerous men on the planet? Viserys instantly has backup.

While the other half of his over-sized party is adventuring literally on the other side of the world.
 
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egoo said:
... When Yss awakens on 16th of this month, not only will we be feeding him some spiders to de-curse those drow, not only will we be feeding him Tor in order to get lore on Yss himself and his counterparts (and whether he'd be able to rezz Meraxes via Dragon Orb without the connection to 15th), but now we are going to feed him Varys too?
That poor, poor snek.
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Hmm? Isn't Meraxes, The Goddess of War and Nobility already alive?
 
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egoo said:
... When Yss awakens on 16th of this month, not only will we be feeding him some spiders to de-curse those drow, not only will we be feeding him Tor in order to get lore on Yss himself and his counterparts (and whether he'd be able to rezz Meraxes via Dragon Orb without the connection to 15th), but now we are going to feed him Varys too?
That poor, poor snek.
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I think he'll be quite a happy snek, actually. Food and sleep is pretty much everything he likes.
 
Snowfire said:
Realtalk here, if Mammon could even enter Yss' divine realm, Yss would absolutely kick his ass without any help required from us. You do not fight a deity in their Realm unless you have similar power, a mitigating device, or a death wish. Any combination of the three works too.
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I would argue that you can do so after intentionally weakening said deity, for example by slaying his avatar and priesthood or genociding his followers.
 
MTB said:
Actively trying to instigate a civil war in Westeros although magic awakened etc. - and he was aware of that - now.
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Is Varys starting a civil war? I thought that was Bloodraven's "splinter the faith" plan. Didn't Varys just want a strong faith militant to stand against sorcery and for the people?

In canon ASOIaF, the Faith Militant does genuinely have popular support and fights for the people. Sure it kills a bunch of innocents accused of "witchcraft", but it also stands against the Lords and for the interests of the commons! Fuck the rich and corrupt, yes for food for all!
Vive la Révolution!

Snowfire said:
Realtalk here, if Mammon could even enter Yss' divine realm, Yss would absolutely kick his ass without any help required from us. You do not fight a deity in their Realm unless you have similar power, a mitigating device, or a death wish. Any combination of the three works too.
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Can't the Lords of Hell fight Gods? Or is that only Asmodeus?
I always thought Mammon could be a real threat to Yss if he wanted to, but didn't because it would be dangerous to him and he's cautious.
 
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Crake said:
Viserys seems to be an anomaly in that he didn't pick three amigos to truck around with like most PCs ever get up to, he didn't try to muscle through it all on his own like Varys and Zherys did, trusting no one.

No, Viserys took it up to 11 and gathered a dozen high leveled PCs, another dozen low-to-middle level PCs, and defied all conventional logic and started manufacturing an army of mages and enchanters.

Of course both Varys and Zherys have access to PCs and an army of mages, in at least a roundabout fashion, but none so loyal or trustworthy as what Viserys has a snap of his fingers away at any moment.

Want to go halfway across the world to ambush one of the most dangerous men on the planet? Viserys has instantly has backup.

While the other half of his over-sized party is adventuring literally on the other side of the world.
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Dragons do love their hoards ;)
 
DkArthas said:
Hmm? Isn't Meraxes, The Lady of Soldiers already alive?
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To a point. The worship of Volantine peeps helped with that.
She's more alive than the rest of 15, but is still pretty dead as gods go.
Pretty much the same position Yss was in at the beginning of the quest.

Yss is a god of rebirth though, so I'm banking on him utilizing the huge amount of power Dragon Orb seems to have to break any metaphysical conections of Meraxes and 15th.
If he can't...
Well, we'll think of some other use for that Orb.
It's getting eaten one way or another here.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Can't the Lords of Hell fight Gods? Or is that only Asmodeus?
I always thought Mammon could be a real threat to Yss if he wanted to, but didn't because it would be dangerous to him and he's cautious.
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Mammon is a quasi-deity. A powerful one, but still only that.

Yss is, per word of DP, a full deity again. Deity beats quasi-deity in a straight fight. With Yss on his home ground, Mammon wouldn't stand a chance. Similarly, Yss would probably lose to Mammon if he tried to invade the 3rd Circle, but still.
 
chryssalideater said:
@Duesal Hey real quick can you ask bloodraven for any Stormlands/Stannis related/adjacent info or plots either Varys or Bloodraven have going on? We do need to get started on that pretty soon.
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Done, though in my experience DP's almost certainly not going to get to it next update. There's only so much that can be written with all the accompanying fluff taking up space. We're probably going to go through two or three updates before finishing with Westerosi intel.
egoo said:
To a point. The worship of Volantine peeps helped with that.
She's more alive than the rest of 15, but is still pretty dead as gods go.
Pretty much the same position Yss was in at the beginning of the quest.

Yss is a god of rebirth though, so I'm banking on him utilizing the huge amount of power Dragon Orb seems to have to break any metaphysical conections of Meraxes and 15th.
If he can't...
Well, we'll think of some other use for that Orb.
It's getting eaten one way or another here.
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The orb can just chill in our cloak until we decide what to do with it. We're definitely not bringing back Meraxes until after the Fifteenth is dealt with.
 
We are not sacrificing a Major Artifact to give a God a new car to drive around.

We're either doing nothing with it, because we have no practical means to deal with or contain what is within other than the Artifact itself, and possibly use it as a last resort deterrent come to that (it worked for the Qarthii).

Or when we do finally decide what to do with it, it directly and personally powers Viserys up.

Using the juice for another Mythic Tier sounds quite sufficient.
 
Snowfire said:
Mammon is a quasi-deity. A powerful one, but still only that.

Yss is, per word of DP, a full deity again. Deity beats quasi-deity in a straight fight. With Yss on his home ground, Mammon wouldn't stand a chance. Similarly, Yss would probably lose to Mammon if he tried to invade the 3rd Circle, but still.
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Good point.
And of course Mammon can just go crying home to the big mambajamba, daddy Asmodeus. Asmodeus will probably come, too: if there's one thing you can trust devils to do it's obey their oaths, lord to mighty vassal included!
And we do know that Asmodeus likes mulching on snake gods, of course :D

EDIT: Of course, I meant on the defence. Asmodeus lets archdevils take their lumps - he just doesn't let other people summon them to kill them or invade the Nine Hells in force.
 
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