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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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zxzx24 said:
As an anti Valyrian conceptual weapon created by Asmodeus and fed by millions of dying slaves I am extremely leery of engaging it in any kind of direct way.

Especially because we actually empower it.
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Yeah in all likelihood we can't do this ourselves, the 14 at their height couldn't deal with it, and I at least believe trying to beat it as a Valyrian, is a lot trying to outrun your own shadow(without magic) it can't be done, as the faster you become the faster your shadow become, but someone else can run faster than your shadow.

So the 15th isn't something we can deal with, it's something we will have to bribe our allies to deal with, so how we should prepare is by gathering as many bribes as possible, in particular Valyrian stuff, as sacrificing it to weaken the 15th weaken it twice, once for the damage whoever we sacrifice it to do, and once for their being less Valyrian stuff for it to draw power from.
zxzx24 said:
Conceptual warfare, not memetic.

Exterminating the idea of Valyria... Might work.

That would require multi plane wide mass memetics tat can alter the minds of things like God's and Arch fey however.

And still might just make it more powerful if it is sourced from us.
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Lets start with the simple solution, sacrifice some Valyrian stuff to Yss, and ask if he can detect the connections to the 15th, as well as whether he can remove such connections, if that don't work we can try the complicated solutions.
 
tarrangar said:
Yeah in all likelihood we can't do this ourselves, the 14 at their height couldn't deal with it, and I at least believe trying to beat it as a Valyrian, is a lot trying to outrun your own shadow(without magic) it can't be done, as the faster you become the faster your shadow become, but someone else can run faster than your shadow.

So the 15th isn't something we can deal with, it's something we will have to bribe our allies to deal with, so how we should prepare is by gathering as many bribes as possible, in particular Valyrian stuff, as sacrificing it to weaken the 15th weaken it twice, once for the damage whoever we sacrifice it to do, and once for their being less Valyrian stuff for it to draw power from.

Lets start with the simple solution, sacrifice some Valyrian stuff to Yss, and ask if he can detect the connections to the 15th, as well as whether he can remove such connections, if that don't work we can try the complicated solutions.
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I still think we won't necessarily have to fight or slay the 15th. It's desperately suicidal. We just need to provide an effective means to end its life.

If Yss can't swallow it, the OG certainly can. We can give it the same treatment as the Landwarden in Lys. I bet we could grow a bitchin' huge Heart Tree in Valyria with that kind of willing sacrifice.
 
Goldfish said:
I still think we won't necessarily have to fight or slay the 15th. It's desperately suicidal. We just need to provide an effective means to end its life.

If Yss can't swallow it, the OG certainly can. We can give it the same treatment as the Landwarden in Lys. I bet we could grow a bitchin' huge Heart Tree in Valyria with that kind of willing sacrifice.
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Problem is it's not enough to slay it's body, it's an infection in everything Valyrian, and like all infections, if you only remove part of it it just re-infest things, so even if we get it to be a willing sacrifice, we will probably need a bunch of additional sacrifices, to pay for Yss or the old gods following it's connection to everything Valyrian, and destroying every infection, otherwise a new 15th will just grow.
 
Goldfish said:
I still think we won't necessarily have to fight or slay the 15th. It's desperately suicidal. We just need to provide an effective means to end its life.

If Yss can't swallow it, the OG certainly can. We can give it the same treatment as the Landwarden in Lys. I bet we could grow a bitchin' huge Heart Tree in Valyria with that kind of willing sacrifice.
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It's worth remembering the 15th is the way it is because of a deal it made. So it might not be able to agree to let us kill it, if that was covered in the original contract.
 
Looks like we just need to break the Pact Primeval over our knee and earn the eternal enmity of Asmodeus.
 
tarrangar said:
Problem is it's not enough to slay it's body, it's an infection in everything Valyrian, and like all infections, if you only remove part of it it just re-infest things, so even if we get it to be a willing sacrifice, we will probably need a bunch of additional sacrifices, to pay for Yss or the old gods following it's connection to everything Valyrian, and destroying every infection, otherwise a new 15th will just grow.
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We don't actually know this. This all unproven assertions.
Tomcost said:
FTFY

You don't think big enough
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Hubris is a coward's word!
 
065tdsa said:
It's worth remembering the 15th is the way it is because of a deal it made. So it might not be able to agree to let us kill it, if that was covered in the original contract.
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Makes sense. If it's as desperate to die as we think it is it would have probably tried to kick the bucket a long time ago.

No devil worth his horns is going to let their weapon detonate without their say so.
 
No wonder Leila had so much trouble adapting to life in Sorcerer's Deep!
When she first met a precocious magical child that wanted to do great things, the first thing she did was ask to talk to its parents!

I'm talking about when she met her familiar
 
tarrangar said:
Yeah but it's based on Viserys best guess at how the 15th work, so it's our best lead as of yet, meaning we might as well check for it.

Personally I think we should check for it by sacrificing a few Valyrian magic items to Yss, and asking him if he can detect any connection to the 15th.
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To clarify, I am referring to your assertion that the 15 the will literally grown back even after we allow it to pass on. It may affect everything the Valyrians made, but no one has ever suggested ic that its influence will come back once it is freed.
 
spiritualatheist said:
To clarify, I am referring to your assertion that the 15 the will literally grown back even after we allow it to pass on. It may affect everything the Valyrians made, but no one has ever suggested ic that its influence will come back once it is freed.
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I asked DP about how Viserys thought the 15th inability to die while Valyria might work, and Viserys best theory was, that the 15th had been woven into the very concept of Valyria, so as long as Valyria existed, a 15th would exist too, as even if the current 15th was killed, it was an intrinsic part of the Valyrian mythos, so like how if you kill a god but it still have millions praying to it, a new god will eventually grow, if the 15th is destroyed but Valyria still exist, then a new 15th will eventually grow, because it's existence is woven in as a fundamental part of Valyria.

And yes I know gods don't grow quite that easily, but sufficient worship can make a god, the requirements are just orders of magnitudes, above the required amount of worshippers for a god to sustain itself.

Or at least I think that's the case, that's how I have understood how godhood work, I might be wrong, but as I understood sufficient prayer is one of the ways to godhood, the requirements in amounts of prayers are just massive.
 
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Part MMDXII: By the Mark of Ancient Deeds
  • Threadmarks
    • By the Mark of Ancient Deeds ​

    Twelfth Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC

    Prestan, you have your name, and so have little enough immediate use for either the would-be poisoner or the scarred blunt-spoken Lantern Bearer, but where you are quite glad to be rid of the former to a life of service at the Wall there is something to be said for keeping the latter nearer to hand and better disposed towards you and yours, and so you make your offer, naming a price that would once have made your own eyes go wide with shock, but which now seems a trifle besides the costs a budding kingdom incurs.

    Lost 5,000 IM

    "You are going to pay me five-thousand gold to keep my mouth shut and visit your realm?" Tobyn sounds incredulous, almost suspicious.

    "Consider it payment up front for Deep One skulls," you reply half-seriously half in grim jest. "The better you can kill them the more satisfied I will be."

    At that the warrior laughs, his expression clearing. "That I can do, though I will have deal with the Silver Gull. She's the ship I was on. The captain is not the sort to shrug off me vanishing into thin air. Probably best to settle on what I was supposed to have found here to keep things straight."

    "Brune men," Dany suggests at once. "Talking loudly about how Warrek was caught with his hand in the lord's purse. That way it will look to the cabal that their spy just got greedy trying to steal from the dying lord and lied to get out, but then got caught and forced to talk."

    "There's still the matter of Lord Brune being alive," you remind her.

    "True, which will likely see them either start moving against the Westerlands in retaliation or trying to find Warrek at the Wall to talk to him. The first is good for us and the second has a chance of catching another lead to the conspiracy. It's good for intrigues to be a little muddied so the folk on the other end don't think they are being led by the hand."

    There is a long silence following your sister's matter-of-fact proclamation, broken only when Tobyn asks: "How old are you supposed to be again?"

    "Nine in two months," Dany replies, amused and a little proud to have shaken a man who spends his days hunting Far-touched horrors.

    His answer is quite indistinct even to your ears, but you catch something to the effect of 'making as much sense as everything else.'

    Still, it does not take the man long to put the matter aside such that when you leave him deep in discussion with Breath Taker regarding the nature and weaknesses of the Deep Ones you are quite certain the lore he will gain will cut far sharper than any weapon he can buy.

    ***​

    Eustace Brune takes the revelation of the man behind his poisoning with the expected mingling of grim satisfaction over muttered curses and oaths of vengeance. Thankfully the old lord does not seem to be in any great hurry to get the latter. "Wouldn't want to scare all the other weasels into their den before time." There is more mercy to be found on a razor's edge than in the gaze of the Lord of Dyre Den this day, his restraint all the more commendable for it.

    Moving on to less grim tidings you ask him what he had found at the Whispers, offering to buy anything of scholarly or arcane interest. Rumors of treasure should more than cover any chests full of gold that might make their way into his possession. The answer is not what you had expected.

    "Dragon bones..." You look on in surprise as several chests filed with what are obviously the bones of an ancient and enormous wyrm are brought in by Lord Eustace's sons, both beaming cheerfully.

    "Reckon this one was killed by Crackbones himself," the younger of the two proclaims. It takes you a moment to recall the legend, a famed hero of the Point who had supposedly slain a dragon by twisting its neck into a knot. You are just about to make a bid for the bones when you notice something truly odd among them, they had been gouged by some weapon of impossible sharpness. Even Valyrian steel was not fit to cut through dragon bone...

    "You have not tried it, have you?"     Dark Sister calls unexpectedly in your mind, a flash of humor beneath her grumbling tone.

    Looking more closely at the markings you decipher that they had certainly been made by a weapon, a sword... hand-and-a-half would be your guess. "Is there any sort of legend about Clarence Crabb's weapon?" you ask, naming the legendary Lord of the Whispers as opposed to the likely later humorous creation of 'Crackbones'.

    "Not that I ever heard told," Lord Brune replies thoughtfully. "I'd send for the maester, but he's a mite busy freezing his balls off at the Wall."

    Curious you decide to make for the Whispers yourself, Wayfinder in hand. It is not long after you descend into the newly cleared tunnels beneath the ancient tumbled fortress that the device in your hand comes alive in your hands just as you had thought it might, though the cause is not impressive as you might have hoped.

    "Adamantine..."

    Yet behind the hidden door Dany's power outlines clearly there is far more to be seen than cups of gold and armor of tarnished bronze lying quiet amid a carpet of dust. There in the darkness, thrust into the stone, a blade shines pale cold purple, its hilt long since rotted. How had such an otherworldly metal come to rest here, you wonder. What tale might the metal utter if it could speak?

    What do you do with your unexpected treasure?

    [] Take it, it will serve you better than ever it could hidden away here in the dark, and perhaps there is some hidden virtue to it

    [] Offer it to Lord Brune, you have Adamantine aplenty, but this blade might be a symbol more precious than dragonsteel to their House

    [] Write in

    OOC: The bones belong to a gargantuan dragon, so there is quite a lot if you are looking to buy.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Informational: the Dragon reshapes the world!​

    • Sorcerer's Deep, capital of the world!
      • Dragon's Roost was rebuilt to be more comfortable to us and better house our expanding leadership (royal family, some Companions, Alinor)
      • The port was improved, as was its support infrastructure. Wildfire does wonders for urban renewal! As do the corpses of the slain: Heart Trees grow all over our lands.
      • Major temples for the Moonsingers and the Merlin King (Temple of Last Lament) were designed and built. We also got divine blessings for the area (Blessing of the Waves, Hope blessing from cute baby coatl God).
      • Check out the city's map! Thank you @Destrark !
      • Ten thousand voices as one: through amazing speeches (@Snowfire is the best), new ceremonies and events, and good rulership, loyalty withing our Kingdom is high. The people believe in our shared dream, and have hope in the future.
        • The MirrorVision project is almost ready to go, allowing for an easy spread of the Emperor's Word!
      • Breaker of Chains: Slavery can end. The lies of slavers were proven wrong. Justice is more than just a hollow ideal: it is a daily goal.

    • The Dragon's lands are lands of peace and plenty
      • Troops securing SD, Tyrosh, hinterlands, seas.
      • Stepstones generally improved (each settlement got it own thing, generally a better port/fresh water/healers)
      • A worldwide road network is under construction. The Arm of Dorne is partially bridged and tolled, Tyroshi roads are under construction. Check out the maps in their own threadmarks!
      • New trade networks appear in all our cities. The Dragon is as much as merchant as a Sorcerer, and wealth may flow to all who shelter beneath his wings.
      • A Heart Tree taller than any palace, feeding the hungry and sheltering the vulnerable. His pact with the Old Gods has changed Lys, and saved it from a peril it could not imagine.
      • The Dragon's lands stretch far. Valyria, Sororythos, Naath, Mantarys, He'Nekar, and more: all follow his laws and serve his will. The world will stand together against the darkness!
      • And of course our many and varied vassals, both human and not.

    • A school of magic, to spread its blessings to all
      • The Scholarum was built. Then its internal functioning and administration were improved. Then it was secured against infiltrators and saboteurs. Then it was expanded with Valyrian Dragonstone. Soon it will set up branch schools in Tyrosh and Naath
      • The library improved so many times it's not even funny anymore, and was eventually partially opened to the public.
      • Rituals were researched and spread to make people's lives better. More food security, more healing and curse-breaking, more everyday comforts...
      • The House of Mirrors was created to cast Divination and Scry for us and for paying customers.
      • And for those who cannot use magic or rituals? Waymar to the rescue! Welcome to the Royce Alchemical Works!

    • A warm welcome
      • Technology transfer agreed to, to get access to Plane-Shift redirecting technology.

    • Riches from beyond this world
      • ACSEC offices are spreading fast [thanks @Azel!], interplanar trading portal has been researched and will be constructed in Sorcerer's Deep.

    • To cast down the dark thrones
      • See "projects under consideration". We have a great many dreams of destruction...
      • We've already given the SnowPocalypse item to the Shaitan for study! Efreet beware!

    • An army to bring order
      • Legion built, trained and deployed. Tyrosh is ours!
      • Our very own black-clad goons, Minotaur battle-charges, and coteries of battlemages. Well organised, equipped and supplied. They're even disciplined and loyal! What more could an Evil Overlord want?

    Hubris is a Coward's Word: projects under consideration​

    • To cast down the dark thrones
      • Various divine WMDs have been floated around to exterminate Deep One cities, slaughter Others and their servants, and generally make life hard for our enemies. Everything from orbital strikes to mass Cerulean weapons to Old Gods wrath, including wildfire teleporting and large-scale bioweapons use.

    • Valyria retaken
      • The 15th will be cast down, his reluctant dominion plundered, and those who still live there bent to our will.

    • Portals!
      • We have ether scarabs, a large empire, and a lot of people. Are cheap portals possible or convenient?

    • A home worthy of the Lord of Sky and Flame, Lord of the Plane of Balance, Sorcerer-King and Dragon Emperor.
      • Flying palace/fortress to project power, show might, be awesome. Still just a project.
      • So far there seems to be a decent consensus over its function, but there have been arguments over aesthetics: Azel, TalonofAnathrax.
      • Or maybe it won't even fly? Who knows? We'll vote at some point. But there will be a better palace! Strong enough to hold back any assault and to impress any envoys!

    • Ser Richard needs a flying keep. Danny said so!
     
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    We are buying all the dragonbone, that is too precious a resource to even consider passing up.

    And with the sword, if there is anything special about it, it's likely only going to awaken in the hands of a Brune anyway.

    @DragonParadox, we've considered this before, but now that we've known Lord Brune longer and have worked with him quite a bit, how about offering to make heroes out of his sons like the legends of old? We could offer the magical know-how and training to get them on top, and Dyre Den as a whole would be better for it.
    TalonofAnathrax said:
    Hey @Duesal, how about making an informational threadmark of megaprojects both completed and under discussion?
    I'd be willing to write it and keep it updated, if anyone else was interested.

    Example stuff that would deserve an entry (I'd include completed megaprojects):
    I'll try to get proper links for each one if I make a real post out of this.
    • Sorcerer's Deep, capital of the world!
      • Dragon's Roost rebuilt to be more comfortable to us and better house our expanding leadership (royal family, some Companions, Alinor)
      • Port improved
      • Major temples for Moonsingers, Tritons, built. Divine blessings for the area acquired (Blessing of the Waves, Hope blessing from cute baby coatl God).
      • Check out the city's map! Thank you @Destrark !
    • The Dragon's lands are lands of peace and plenty
      • Troops securing SD, Tyrosh, hinterlands, seas.
      • Stepstones generally improved (each settlement got it own thing, generally a better port/fresh water/healers
      • Worldwide road network is under construction. Arm of Dorne is partially bridged and tolled, Tyroshi roads are under construction. Check out the maps in their own threadmarks!
    • A school of magic, to spread its blessings to all
      • Scholarum built, internally improved and secured, expanded with Valyrian Dragonstone, soon to set up branch schools in Tyrosh and Naath
      • Library improved so many times it's not even funny anymore, and eventually partially opened to the public
      • Rituals researched and spread
      • House of Mirrors created (Divination and Scry)
    • A warm welcome
      • Technology transfer agreed to, to get access to Plane-Shift redirecting technology
    • Riches from beyond this world
      • ACSEC offices are spreading fast [thanks @Azel!], interplanar trading portal has been researched and will be constructed in Sorcerer's Deep.
    • To cast down the dark thrones
      • Various divine WMDs have been floated around to exterminate Deep One cities, slaughter Others and their servants, and generally make life hard for our enemies.
      • We've already given the SnowPocalypse item to the Shaitan for study!
    • An army to bring order
      • Legion built, trained and deployed. Tyrosh is ours!
      • Our very own black-clad goons, Minotaur battle-charges, and coteries of battlemages. Well organised, equipped and supplied. They're even disciplined and loyal! What more could an Evil Overlord want?
    • A home worthy of the Lord of Sky and Flame, Lord of the Plane of Balance, Sorcerer-King and Dragon Emperor.
      • Flying palace/fortress to project power, show might, be awesome. Still just a project.
      • So far there seems to be a decent consensus over its function, but there have been arguments over aesthetics: Azel, TalonofAnathrax.
    • Ser Richard needs a flying keep. Danny said so!
    Do you think that this is worth the effort to make something threadmark-worthy? Or shall I just not bother?
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    I like the idea, and I certainly don't see why it wouldn't be threadmark-worthy so long as you keep it updated from time to time.
     
    It is mentioned on wiki that there is a godswood and weirwood in Whispers so maybe we can ask Bloodraven if Old Gods know anything about the legendary Crabb and his wife?

    Also would it be worth asking if Crabb has any descendants which could lead to Dick Crabb?
     
    [X] Offer it to Lord Brune, you have Adamantine aplenty, but this blade might be a symbol more precious than dragonsteel to their House
     
    Step 1. Buy all dragon bones
    Step 2. Give that sword to Lord Brune, it's worth more as a symbol of our respect than as a blade for one of the B party or something.
     
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