Viserys has never encountered a true democracy, but if he did his main objection would not be inefficiency so much as decision-making by people without the expertise to make the decisions, government by popularity contest when popularity does not guarantee competence . His IC argument against democracy would start with something like "Behold Aedon of Lys, much loved by many of his fellow citizens"
Yeah but that's a problem in feudalism as well, behold Aedon of Lys, firstborn son of the Archon of Lys, who will ascend to Archon upon the Archon's death.

For all Viserys believe in Feudalism, he also believe in meritocracy, and that you should qualify by merit, to be granted authority, it's just that if you are first in line feudally, then you should get the post as long as you qualify by having sufficient merit, even if someone else have a little more.

He certainly don't believe that Aerys should have been allowed to be king, nor that Rhaegar should have been allowed, he just believe that he should have been given a chance, as he was off royal blood, and hadn't disqualified himself by lack of merit.

And that could be done just as easy with a democracy, by having a series of test that you must pass, in order to qualify to be a candidate who can be voted for.
Only idiots and madmen believe themselves immortal.

I sincerely hope that you all prove to be neither and if you are that any stupidity or madness does not spread to Viserys
Immortal we aren't, unaging however we are, and resurrection is a thing, so while we acknowledge we might suffer permadeath, we don't treat it as a certainty, but as a somewhat unlikely worst case scenario.
True but the unwavering belief in such a thing in a world like theirs and the belief that they cannot die (or at least stay dead) is the mark of, as i stated before, idiocy or madness.

So far the thread seems to be a bit to confident that the main PC cannot die permanently which is not only stupid but also practically a challenge to the GM.... At least that has been my experience in D&D. When you reach the point of believing that you cannot die permanently the GM will need to do something to dissuade the players of that notion as it makes it hard to take things seriously.
It's not that we believe we can't die permanently, it's that we believe we wont die permanently, we believe it's a possibility, but we also believe that as long as we don't get careless we can avoid it.

Then there's the fact we have played Viserys for so long, and anything that permakilled Viserys would probably take the rest of the party with us, so if that happened I at least expect the quest to more or less end.
Nothing is unkillable or eternal in D&D.

Nothing.
That's true, but the flipside of that is, no method of killing is perfect or irreversible, anything that can be done can in theory be undone, some things might need the power of multiple gods to reverse, but it can be reversed.

We trust that for most forms of true death, we have methods available that makes them not so true, or can get access to them with time, sure it's likely to involve a long time playing as a companion to find the a way to undo it, but it's not going to be hopeless, because very few things in D&D is hopeless.
We seem to send things to true death quite often. Not as hard as it seems in this setting.
We send things to something like true death often, but we have no illusions that what we do is irreversible, we are just quite sure that reversing it, would take far more effort, than those we send to true deaths superiors think are worth, our main method of true death is Yss, if Yss Avatar was sacrificed to another much mightier god, they could probably pierce the souls of those Yss has eaten back together again, so while we count it as true death, it's only true death, because the effort it would take to reverse it, is exponentially more than the value of the dead.

Of course things like death by Yss, is something our companions are far from being able to reverse, which don't make it irreversible, it just mean that they would probably need to reach at least Mythic rank 10 before being able to do it.
Good catches!

Also yeah. Thats something everyone has mostly been ignoring, because we can't do anything about it.

Except ask for help.
We can and are preparing for it, by gathering up all the Valyrian stuff we can, as the only way I see to get rid of it, if it is indeed in us, is by sacrificing Valyrian stuff to a non-Valyrian god such as Yss, in return for him removing the 15ths taint from Valyrian people.
You are right with these scenarios and are proving my point there.
Except the Soul Trap thing, since retrieving that would be far from impossible.

So we got:
- get killed by an Other Champion
- get captured and killed by the Sultan of Brass
- get eaten by Yss

Which is illustrating that it needs divine level power to kill Viserys these days.
It's not like those are necessarily irreversible, they are just far beyond our power to reverse.
 
You know what, that's a good point.

@Duesal maybe throw in a little cash as well?

500 IM sound okay? I'd be willing to increase the amount depending on how much we decide we like this guy.

And depending on what kinds of things he's up against we can provide different weapons.

Fey or Demon problems? Cold Iron. Were-creatures, undead, and devils? Mithral. Everything? Adamantine.
 
Last edited:
For real irreversible annihilation, check out the hungry sword we got in Valyria! It destroys a soul in three days!
And of course poor Daeron's fate.
 
For real irreversible annihilation, check out the hungry sword we got in Valyria! It destroys a soul in three days!
And of course poor Daeron's fate.
Neither is irreversible, I'm sure if we still had that sword, then if we fed it to Yss along with sufficient sacrifices, he could have recreated a soul lost to it.

And Daeron's fate isn't irreversible, it's just that we have to remember he existed, in order to get around to figuring out how to revive him.

The question is just what constitute sufficient sacrifices, but nearly everything is theoretically possible, some things just have costs that are practically impossible.

Yss sacrifices are counted by CR, and CR go up by 2 every time you double the amount of beings, so while Yss can probably in theory reconstitute the soul of someone he ate, if the cost of doing that is something that add up to CR40, then it's nearly practically impossible, as 1 CR40 enemy add up to 1024 CR20 enemies, if the price was CR50, then that would be 32768 CR20 enemies, and if it was CR60, then the price would be 1048576 CR20 enemies, for such an amount of sacrifices just about anything could be accomplished, but gathering such an amount of sacrifices is practically impossible, but not theoretically impossible.
 
Last edited:
Um, okay? Kind of confused about why though.

Because your caps locks are making you come across as very aggressive and it is mildly unpleasant and quite confusing. If you do not feel that you are angry, then the walk won't help, but the hope is that you will return for measured discourse of what we know, debate on what we are unsure about and a bunch of halirious shitposting.

Oh, an I totally agree Viserys can be permadeathed, and that we should be careful. Ice Dragon, Yss and... Oh, the fact that there are an infinite number of Daemons

That said, there is only so much one can do to prevent such, but afaik, true death is inevitable as a fact of probability, weather it happens in 5 years or in 5 trillion. So... All the wardings we can reasonably get for everyone, be vaguely careful and then... Get on with whatever you're doing ;).

The only immortals I know of, truly, are a section of the ice-fey/dead god conglomerat know as the Others, possiblly also including "the nameless god" but that bit of our creation-lore is suspect. I think.
 
I will not add a straight cash bribe, because I sincerely doubt it will do anything good at this point.
Are exotic metals fine? Thanks to our master smith retainer from Braavos, our mage smiths are now capable of forging +1 mithral equipment without needing to bother the crafters about it.

That's... honestly all I can come up with right now. It's a decent opening gift. We can be generous, but overdoing it might backfire. Maybe later we can get into bigger forms of help, perhaps handing out items that blast Cerulean Sign.
 
Are exotic metals fine? Thanks to our master smith retainer from Braavos, our mage smiths are now capable of forging +1 mithral equipment without needing to bother the crafters about it.

That's... honestly all I can come up with right now. It's a decent opening gift. We can be generous, but overdoing it might backfire. Maybe later we can get into bigger forms of help, perhaps handing out items that blast Cerulean Sign.

We do need to make plants with Cerulean Sign SLA though. That would defend the shores pretty well.
 
[X] Azel
I don't really see the need to give the guy anything at this point. I mean we just met him (in a super shady way imo) and he hasn't really given us anything worth rewarding him for.
 
I don't really see the need to give the guy anything at this point. I mean we just met him (in a super shady way imo) and he hasn't really given us anything worth rewarding him for.
The reward is contingent on how much we decide we like him.

It's not actually looking good. His order is using Deep Ones artifacts. I would not be surprised if half of them are corrupted by the very thing they're trying to exterminate.
 
The reward is contingent on how much we decide we like him.

It's not actually looking good. His order is using Deep Ones artifacts. I would not be surprised if half of them are corrupted by the very thing they're trying to exterminate.
So far I'd have to say I like his attitude, but I did not know about the order using Deep One artifacts. Does that mean the Maesters are also studying/using them?
 
So far I'd have to say I like his attitude, but I did not know about the order using Deep One artifacts. Does that mean the Maesters are also studying/using them?

Probably not openly or lightly.

Most institutions that weren't outright cults have been forced to hide them away inside lead boxes or jump through ten hoops to destroy them, or pay Supernaturals to do it for them--ones who likely will curse break and then use the items for themselves.

That's why we've been making a killing getting cursed objects for free from our allies, since we've got multiple ways to cleanly dispose of them which have a completely net positive result.
 
Probably not openly or lightly.

Most institutions that weren't outright cults have been forced to hide them away inside lead boxes or jump through ten hoops to destroy them, or pay Supernaturals to do it for them--ones who likely will curse break and then use the items for themselves.

That's why we've been making a killing getting cursed objects for free from our allies, since we've got multiple ways to cleanly dispose of them which have a completely net positive result.
It's so incredibly convenient the Old Gods have an appetite for cursed items. :D
 
@LonelyWolf999 don't update the Lads yet, we all want that update, but we also want Crake's update, so continue writing but hold it hostage, until Crake gets desperate enough to trade updates.:D

Edit. Crake you just more or less called me a Pariah, so I have no regrets in encouraging blackmailing you for updates.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top