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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TotallyNotEvil said:
First Penetrating Stirke is arguably the single best ACF for a Rogue. It allows you to bypass sneak attack against anything.

Second, third level of Rogue also raises BAB, Fort and Will, while increasing sneak attack and giving plenty of skills.

Third, SA was ruled to stack with her funky Mariner thing. Rogue also has the necessary skill points for her sailor stuff, and ruling besides.

But yes, I was thinking a Daring Outlaw build, if focused on personal combat, or one of the captain PrCs.
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I agree that Penetrating Strike is awesome. It's just that if you're only dipping Rogue, it may not be worth it.
However the third level of Rogue is pretty good, yes. You're right about that.

Daring Outlaw build sounds terrible: she isn't a swashbuckler, doesn't qualify for the feat, and really shouldn't be taking that.

I like the idea of a build similar to Bronn's though. Feel free to make a vote for it, because Goldfish certainly isn't!
I could format a vote, but I can't quite figure out which feats to be taking first/retraining.

TotallyNotEvil said:
Yup.

Note, Craven is a horribly overpowered feat for a full rogue, or someone that just has decent SA. It works on Bronn because it's like gravy to his Intimidate + Luck gravy on a basic fighter chassis build.

Garin was getting way out of hand, so his Craven was in fact downgraded. Even as his own version shouldn't actually work with PfE amulets.
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Wait, his Craven was downgraded? How?
Craven isn't that broken though. Just very good. It's max +20 to damage: a proper Power Attacker or buff-Cleric can do far better!

DragonParadox said:
Which says a great deal about his feelings, not hers.
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Pretty fucking typical, too. I really hate that kind of "he's a catch and he's into you, obviously you're madly in love!" thinking.
Grr.

Goldfish said:
[] Asha Level Up
-[] Class: +1 Fighter
-[] Bonus Feat: Dazzling Display
--[] Retrained Feat: Sidestep Charge >>> Mage Slayer
-[] Skills (4 points): +3 Spellcraft, +4 Knowledge (Arcana)
--[] Retrain (+3 points): -1 Bluff, -1 Climb, -1 Spot
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Not a fan of this. How about giving her one more Rogue level instead of fighter? She'd have more skill points, +1d6 sneak attack, Penetrating Strike. Far better than Dazzling Display!
She can still take Mage Slayer and prep for Occult Slayer next level.

Otherwise, I'd replace Dazzling Display by Pierce Magical Protection, or maybe Craven.

Another idea: give her another Mariner level. I think she gets a bonus feat anyway, better saves and BAB, and a small bonus to a class feature. And more skill points than fighter.

EDIT: @Goldfish, are you sure that those aren't cross-class skills?
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Dec 23, 2018 at 4:16 PM, finished with 157 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] Plan Reason and Steel
    -[X] "That depends entirely on what it would mean for you to be awakened in full. I have heard stories of the Fae, I have seen them work their wills upon the world, have made bargains with their kind and been called on more than once to defend those who cannot do so for themselves from their advances." The intent here is to make it very clear that we know of the full, often capricious nature of the Fae. We have been ally to some, enemy to others, and that they were dreaming or no changes nothing.
    -[X] "You say that with this crown returned, your Lord could be awakened. That his presence would root you in the world, and help you understand what it has become. How would that aid the people of the Reach? Would it defend them from the nature of the darkling creatures that are as much a part of any Court as you? You would not have come so far only to be bound more tightly to your words." I know you're speaking the truth and I also know you're obscuring parts of it. If you want something from me here, do more of the first and less of the last.
    -[X] "If the Crown was to be returned, how would the Lord's presence change your Court from how it is now. Would it bind you closer to the laws of the people of the land, not yours, but theirs? Would it make you stronger in the world, to enforce your own? You offer words, Lady, but they are without substance." More of the above.
    -[X] "These are my waters. What lies within them is mine too, by right and custom. If you wish to return with what you say is yours, then I would have answers of you before I make any bargains to see it done. It is a fool who makes deals without knowing the value of what is held and offered in return." Law of the sea and waters, these are ours. If you want what is within them, we're willing to talk, but not without truth between us.
    [X] "There is more then one who could bear this crown."
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I rather like the interludes. It, at least to me, broadens the world and makes it interesting to me. Though I am curious as to what is happening with Jon and Arya. Hopefully no one is stupid enough to mess with them. Luncan needs to stay the fuck away.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I agree that Penetrating Strike is awesome. It's just that if you're only dipping Rogue, it may not be worth it.
However the third level of Rogue is pretty good, yes. You're right about that.

Daring Outlaw build sounds terrible: she isn't a swashbuckler, doesn't qualify for the feat, and really shouldn't be taking that.

I like the idea of a build similar to Bronn's though. Feel free to make a vote for it, because Goldfish certainly isn't!
I could format a vote, but I can't quite figure out which feats to be taking first/retraining.


Wait, his Craven was downgraded? How?
Craven isn't that broken though. Just very good. It's max +20 to damage: a proper Power Attacker or buff-Cleric can do far better!


Pretty fucking typical, too. I really hate that kind of "he's a catch and he's into you, obviously you're madly in love!" thinking.
Grr.


Not a fan of this. How about giving her one more Rogue level instead of fighter? She'd have more skill points, +1d6 sneak attack, Penetrating Strike. Far better than Dazzling Display!
She can still take Mage Slayer and prep for Occult Slayer next level.

Otherwise, I'd replace Dazzling Display by Pierce Magical Protection, or maybe Craven.

Another idea: give her another Mariner level. I think she gets a bonus feat anyway, better saves and BAB, and a small bonus to a class feature. And more skill points than fighter.
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How's this? I really don't have any preference for her, so I'm willing to slot in whatever ya'll want.

[] Asha Level Up
-[] Class: +1 Rogue
-[] Alternative Class Feature: Trap Sense >>> Penetrating Strike
-[] Retrained Feat: Sidestep Charge >>> Mage Slayer
-[] Skills (10 points): +1 Bluff, +1 Intimidate, +1 Profession(Sailor), +3 Spellcraft, +4 Knowledge (Arcana)
 
Goldfish said:
How's this? I really don't have any preference for her, so I'm willing to slot in whatever ya'll want.

[] Asha Level Up
-[] Class: +1 Rogue
-[] Alternative Class Feature: Trap Sense >>> Penetrating Strike
-[] Retrained Feat: Sidestep Charge >>> Mage Slayer
-[] Skills (10 points): +1 Bluff, +1 Intimidate, +1 Profession(Sailor), +3 Spellcraft, +4 Knowledge (Arcana)
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Aren't Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft cross-class skills for her?

However the longer I think about this, the better I find a Bronn build for her. She hasn't been training with Richard for ages now, and I think that she's cooler as a thoroughly nonmagical character anyway. Theon is the magic raider!

I'll figure something out now, and if you're fine with it you can put it in your vote?
 
What weapons should we give her? She already has a Valyrian Steel Handaxe (+2), and we have a big surplus of precious metals. Maybe a +1 Adamantine weapon of some kind? Possibly with an enchantment to be added later? That or Cold Iron because Ironborn (not to mention the DR-piercing against Fey and fiends).
 
DragonParadox said:
I don't recall that, but I could easily be forgetting something. Can you recall the source?
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I'm looking at Rhaella's wiki entry, and it's clarifying a few things. First of all, Barristan just says that they had no fondness for each other during their wedding, and I must have exaggerated that with the picture of the wedding next to it. They're pretty obviously not happy, but it's technically not a canon source. Barristan also states that Rhealla and Bonnifer had an affair, but it was with the knowledge that nothing serious would become of it.

All in all, I still think she'd have more of a reaction to him than "Oh, there's that knight who crowned me Queen of Love and Beauty once."
 
@Duesal, I want to retrain Two-Weapon-Fighting anyway. She doesn't actually use it and her BAB is already suboptimal, so let's not add in even more attack penalties. Sounds good?
 
Duesal said:
Didn't DP just chalk that up to her charactersheet not being updated in regards to her gear? Can she mechanically not use it?
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Mechanically, she can. I just think that it's not worth it, and that seeing as she hasn't used it in-story yet we may as well just retrain it away.
Or do you think the flavor really is that good?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Mechanically, she can. I just think that it's not worth it, and that seeing as she hasn't used it in-story yet we may as well just retrain it away.
Or do you think the flavor really is that good?
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I don't have a preference either way, I just wanted clarification on whether or not the build was messed up.

By the way, thoughts on future enchantments for Theon's dragonbone bow? Distance is obvious for the first one one, but for the second I was leaning towards Aberration-bane... but that seems a bit too narrow since he fights a lot more than just aberrations.
 
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DragonParadox said:
The Lord sleeps eternal, for his crown a mortal claimed for his own in a game of wits. Fairly won it was and well the mortal reigned over both kindred, but he has passed to dust and now only the Sage endures." Her next words have the air of somber verse:

Long have we wandered...
Far we have seen...
Long have we pandered...
Lost we have been...​
"We ask only for that which is rightfully ours, yet now lies locked beneath the cold sea," the sorceress explains. From the look on Lord Paxter's face this is as much news to him as it is to you.
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Fey Logic.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Aren't Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft cross-class skills for her?

However the longer I think about this, the better I find a Bronn build for her. She hasn't been training with Richard for ages now, and I think that she's cooler as a thoroughly nonmagical character anyway. Theon is the magic raider!

I'll figure something out now, and if you're fine with it you can put it in your vote?
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That's cool with me. Figure out what you want for her and I'll add it to the level up plan.
 
Ooh.

A Dragonbone Longbow with the Distance and Aquatic enchantments sounds neat, and excellent for a seaman in general. Sometimes you need to take the fight below the waves, especially against Deep Ones.

@Goldfish, did you have anything in mind already for Theon's bow?
 
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