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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
[X] Keep them in the tower (greater safety; no chance of incidents with the locals)

For the tablet:
[X] Offer 3 full days of healing from all our healers: healing in mind, body and spirit alike.
-[X] When we have our magic school up and running within the next several month, offer to take no more than one student from each of the clans of He'nekar to train as mages with the chance to return home and not remain in our direct service as soon as their training is complete -- provided of course that they swear never to work against us.
-[X] They do not have the means to make full use of the mundane enchantment for weapons and armor, but we do. Offer them a discount (but not so much that we don't still profit) when we get that industry up and running for the first 5 weapons that each family commissions from your blacksmiths.
-[X] You've saved their town once before, and you went on to rid the world of the darkness in Mantarys. You do not work in half measures. Promise to defend them if needed. For now, Dany will make a Sending once every two weeks. Later we switch to better communication.
-[X] A huge part of your many generous offers is dependent on the fact that you expect to have extended contact with this town, rather than teleporting away and never setting foot here ever again. Explain that you would like to make this your own personal harbor to the east for trade with Mantarys, Tolos, and cities even further away. As the locals they would be able to charge a docking fee and tax any trade that takes place in their own walls. Wealth would once again come to He'nekar.
-[X] While here, have Vee extensively use Lay of the Land and Locate Object for Valyrian Steel.

We do not need incidents with the minotaurs while we're in the middle of negotiating for the tablet and the harbor. We can integrate them when we're back in our own kingdom.
As for the latter part of the vote, I cannibalized Artemis' vote for the necessary parts. I only decided to offer the healing because we're not exactly in a hurry, because that shit is valuable as hell and should tempt them a LOT, and because we can have Vee spam Lay of the Land in the process.
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Sympathetic for the Minotaurs but likely the smart option.

I'd rather we explicitly acquire majority ownership of the harbour with them receiving a share of fees etc resulting from our trade negotiations and infrastructure.

[X] Duesal

DragonParadox said:
To defend them against anything (like say Dothraki) or just demons and such.
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If we share ownership of the harbour, the former.
 
Deliste said:
@Duesal still not a superfan of letting the Sealord stick his fingers in our pie.
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I'm assuming this refers to hiring Leila out to craft barrels of purifying water? It's not really letting him stick his finger in our pie if we're making him pay for it.

BUT we can still profit and not let HIM profit by hiring out Leila to the Fairwinds instead. They're currently our only true allies in the city.

My only point is that in this particular time frame, everyone's just going to be identifying magic items and exploring how the Tower works. Leila will be sitting there doing nothing. We may as well set her to work and make money while we're at it.
Deliste said:
I'd rather we explicitly acquire majority ownership of the harbour with them receiving a share of fees etc resulting from our trade negotiations and infrastructure.
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Actually, for what we're offering, that's a fair demand. Changing that.
 
Duesal said:
[X] Keep them in the tower (greater safety; no chance of incidents with the locals)

For the tablet:
[X] Offer 3 full days of healing from all our healers: healing in mind, body and spirit alike.
-[X] When we have our magic school up and running within the next several month, offer to take no more than one student from each of the clans of He'nekar to train as mages with the chance to return home and not remain in our direct service as soon as their training is complete -- provided of course that they swear never to work against us.
-[X] They do not have the means to make full use of the mundane enchantment for weapons and armor, but we do. Offer them a discount (but not so much that we don't still profit) when we get that industry up and running for the first 5 weapons that each family commissions from your blacksmiths.
-[X] You've saved their town once before, and you went on to rid the world of the darkness in Mantarys. You do not work in half measures. Promise to defend them if needed. For now, Dany will make a Sending once every two weeks. Later we switch to better communication.
-[X] A huge part of your many generous offers is dependent on the fact that you expect to have extended contact with this town, rather than teleporting away and never setting foot here ever again. Explain that you would like to make this your own personal harbor to the east for trade with Mantarys, Tolos, and cities even further away. As the locals they would be able to charge a docking fee and tax any trade that takes place in their own walls. Wealth would once again come to He'nekar.
-[X] While here, have Vee extensively use Lay of the Land and Locate Object for Valyrian Steel.

We do not need incidents with the minotaurs while we're in the middle of negotiating for the tablet and the harbor. We can integrate them when we're back in our own kingdom.
As for the latter part of the vote, I cannibalized Artemis' vote for the necessary parts. I only decided to offer the healing because we're not exactly in a hurry, because that shit is valuable as hell and should tempt them a LOT, and because we can have Vee spam Lay of the Land in the process.
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Are we sure they want to use their docks for trade? They seems sort of insular and xenophobic to me.
 
Duesal said:
I'm assuming this refers to hiring Leila out to craft barrels of purifying water? It's not really letting him stick his finger in our pie if we're making him pay for it.

BUT we can still profit and not let HIM profit by hiring out Leila to the Fairwinds instead. They're currently our only true allies in the city.

My only point is that in this particular time frame, everyone's just going to be identifying magic items and exploring how the Tower works. Leila will be sitting there doing nothing. We may as well set her to work and make money while we're at it.

Actually, for what we're offering, that's a fair demand. Changing that.
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Not Leila, I support that. Don't go introducing the Sealord directly into Mantarys politics. We worked hard for that city.
 
[X] Plan Duesal+Divide and conquer
-[X] Give them the choice (encourages initiative; helps break up herd mentality; chance of appearing weak)
-[X] Offer 3 full days of healing from all our healers: healing in mind, body and spirit alike.
--[X] When we have our magic school up and running within the next several month, offer to take no more than one student from each of the clans of He'nekar to train as mages with the chance to return home and not remain in our direct service as soon as their training is complete -- provided of course that they swear never to work against us.
--[X] They do not have the means to make full use of the mundane enchantment for weapons and armor, but we do. Offer them a discount (but not so much that we don't still profit) when we get that industry up and running for the first 5 weapons that each family commissions from your blacksmiths.
--[X] You've saved their town once before, and you went on to rid the world of the darkness in Mantarys. You do not work in half measures. Promise to defend them if needed. For now, Dany will make a Sending once every two weeks. Later we switch to better communication.
--[X] A huge part of your many generous offers is dependent on the fact that you expect to have extended contact with this town, rather than teleporting away and never setting foot here ever again. Explain that you would like to make this your own personal harbor to the east for trade with Mantarys, Tolos, and cities even further away. As the locals they would be able to charge a docking fee and tax any trade that takes place in their own walls. Wealth would once again come to He'nekar. Be clear, you're making an offer to explicitly own most of the harbor. It is a reasonable demand considering what you're offering in return -- a chance to truly prosper in relative safety.
--[X] While here, have Vee extensively use Lay of the Land and Locate Object for Valyrian Steel.

Divided minotaurs are easier to handle. And we can't possibly seem weak. Even if we do, we just unleash any PC to put them in line again.
 
Deliste said:
If the harbour is part(mostly) ours than we have good reason to not let them be raped and pillaged to death. Their choice really.
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True.

I wonder if we're going to need to station some of our own people in Lamentation? We could keep a few main party members here, with a contingent of trained guards and some Pechs for harbor upgrades, withdrawing the party members once we're suitably established and everything is running smoothly. Maybe add some of the cowguard once they're more civilized?
 
Goldfish said:
Are we sure they want to use their docks for trade? They seems sort of insular and xenophobic to me.
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I thought they were insular and xenophobic because they live in the middle of the Demon Road? They seemed clannish because they literally scurry away into freaking burrows when monsters come knocking, and they've been doing that kind of thing for centuries. If they're less afraid of being completely wiped out, I'm sure that kind of problem vanishes regarding traders.
Deliste said:
Not Leila, I support that. Don't go introducing the Sealord directly into Mantarys politics. We worked hard for that city.
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Ahhh. Well, the way I see it, there's no way in hell for the Sealord to gain the amount of goodwill that we gained with the Archons. We destroyed the Whispering Gate. Literally NOBODY can compete with that. :rofl::rofl::rofl: I'd say we're pretty safe competition-wise. That, and I'd rather our two cities we're technically allied with are also helping each other out as well. It just makes our plans for world domination easier if our friends are slightly harder to kill.
MTB said:
Have Dany talk to the Dracolich before the next teleport?
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This would risk waking it up. :o
 
Duesal said:
I thought they were insular and xenophobic because they live in the middle of the Demon Road? They seemed clannish because they literally scurry away into freaking burrows when monsters come knocking, and they've been doing that kind of thing for centuries. If they're less afraid of being completely wiped out, I'm sure that kind of problem vanishes regarding traders.

Ahhh. Well, the way I see it, there's no way in hell for the Sealord to gain the amount of goodwill that we gained with the Archons. We destroyed the Whispering Gate. Literally NOBODY can compete with that. :rofl::rofl::rofl: I'd say we're pretty safe competition-wise. That, and I'd rather our two cities we're technically allied with are also helping each other out as well. It just makes our plans for world domination easier if our friends are slightly harder to kill.


This would risk waking it up. :o
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The Sealord is not Braavos, they will still trade and heavily.

I don't care at all about his goodwill with the Archons.
The Archons seem to be stand up blokes, but the administrators will run the city (kind of their job) and I want those administrators to know we hired them, we provided them with an opportunity in a start-up city with huge potential and we will profit from their inevitable influence.

The Archons may try harder than Robert but once things get rolling they'll have about as much to do with actually running the place. It's like having a dozen Littlefingers in our pocket, and hopefully smart enough to realise stabbing a Dragon in the back just loses you a knife and a head.

Edit: Freely admit to some paranoia about this but, do we really have to offer mage training? It's a pretty big deal, they'll learn pretty intimate knowledge and our teachers are the kind of nerds who care more about knowledge than politics, they'll be treated exactly the same as their other students and this could be an issue.
 
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Tomcost said:
Divided minotaurs are easier to handle. And we can't possibly seem weak. Even if we do, we just unleash any PC to put them in line again.
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This is a good point. And it would streamline reintegration once we get back home and make them think more like humans again... Alright, changing that.

Heads up @MTB @Abhishek M @Deliste

Deliste said:
The Sealord is not Braavos, they will still trade and heavily.

I don't care at all about his goodwill with the Archons.
The Archons seem to be stand up blokes,l but the administrators will run the city (kind of their job) and I want those administrators to know we hired them, we provided them with an opportunity in a start-up city with huge potential and we will profit from their inevitable influence.

The Archons may try harder than Robert but once things get rolling they'll have about as much to do with actually running the place. It's like having a dozen Littlefingers in our pocket, and hopefully smart enough to realise stabbing a Dragon in the back just loses you a knife and a head.
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Fair enough. We can try personally searching for and hiring administrators, then? Then we can teleport them to Mantarys ourselves.
 
Duesal said:
This is a good point. And it would streamline reintegration once we get back home and make them think more like humans again... Alright, changing that.

Heads up @MTB @Abhishek M @Deliste



Fair enough. We can try personally searching for and hiring administrators, then? Then we can teleport them to Mantarys ourselves.
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That's my plan anyway.

I see the 'divide and conquer' approach as the worst of the three, Tower keeps them in line and reduces problems with negotiation, forcing them to integrate helps them socialise, letting them choose is the worst of both worlds. Some may mingle just for a fight and cause dramas with the negotiations while those who want the socialising the most are probably the same ones afraid of being shunned and so won't do so and while we can put down any accusations of weakness, they might not necessarily be voiced and really it's just a waste of effort right now.
 
Deliste said:
That's my plan anyway.

I see the 'divide and conquer' approach as the worst of the three, Tower keeps them in line and reduces problems with negotiation, forcing them to integrate helps them socialise, letting them choose is the worst of both worlds. Some may mingle just for a fight and cause dramas with the negotiations while those who want the socialising the most are probably the same ones afraid of being shunned and so won't do so and while we can put down any accusations of weakness, they might not necessarily be voiced and really it's just a waste of effort right now.
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Alright, let's take a closer look at all three of these:
DragonParadox said:
[] Keep them in the tower (greater safety; no chance of incidents with the locals)

[] In the city (begins work towards social integration right away; chance of incidents)

[] Give them the choice (encourages initiative; helps break up herd mentality; chance of appearing weak)
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Keeping them in the tower is indeed the safest option. And social integration is definitely useful, even with the risks attached.

However, only giving them the choice helps break up herd mentality. That means we put them on the path of thinking more like humans again. I really, really want less bestial and insufferably dumb minotaurs for our shock troops, and this seems like the best way to go about it.

How about we temper it with strict supervision by our PCs?
 
Letting them choose means that less will come out into the world, and less minotaurs are more manageable than all minotaurs.

The divide and conquer is actually the second safest, because you won't have 60 bullmen going around.
 
Duesal said:
Alright, let's take a closer look at all three of these:

Keeping them in the tower is indeed the safest option. And social integration is definitely useful, even with the risks attached.

However, only giving them the choice helps break up herd mentality. That means we put them on the path of thinking more like humans again. I really, really want less bestial and insufferably dumb minotaurs for our shock troops, and this seems like the best way to go about it.

How about we temper it with strict supervision by our PCs?
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And we can't do that at the Deep? This is a shitfight waiting to happen.

I want that for them too but this isn't the time and place, like I said those most yearning for human contact were outright stated to fear being shunned. We might get some of them to think individually, we might also push those closest to it back into the herd with a hard choice after extremely hard times. And if shit does go down and we have to discipline them, or they fear their own strength around humans because one of em got drunk and broke a man?
So many ways for this to go wrong.
 
Deliste said:
And we can't do that at the Deep? This is a shitfight waiting to happen.

I want that for them too but this isn't the time and place, like I said those most yearning for human contact were outright stated to fear being shunned. We might get some of them to think individually, we might also push those closest to it back into the herd with a hard choice after extremely hard times. And if shit does go down and we have to discipline them, or they fear their own strength around humans because one of em got drunk and broke a man?
So many ways for this to go wrong.
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... Okay, dammit, this is a good point. There are never any easy options, are there? :facepalm:

As for safety concerns about facing 60 minotaurs at once, we can counter that by having multiple PCs watching over them?
 
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Duesal said:
... Okay, dammit, this is a good point. There are never any easy options, are there? :facepalm:

As for safety concerns about facing 60 minotaurs at once, we can counter that by having multiple PCs watching over them?
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Let them socialise back home, where we can ask people to understand, in a place used to strangers and strange happenings.

Let them get used to being trusted to be human instead of having a town full of people who don't trust other humans, let alone beast men, be their first contact as a free people. This is not the most welcoming of towns and simpler minds (sad as it is to be the case) are much more prone to the 'once bitten twice shy' outlook on life.

Something goes wrong they might not try again for a long time. This is a service to them.
 
Deliste said:
Don't wake him up, we have one/two? more jumps to make and then we can approach the situation carefully, just have her ready to nope reality for these last steps.
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Duesal said:
This would risk waking it up. :o
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Wake up? He's a lich, he's not sleeping, he's imprisoned and wants to GET OUT.

Duesal said:
... Okay, dammit, this is a good point. There are never any easy options, are there? :facepalm:

As for safety concerns about facing 60 minotaurs at once, we can counter that by having multiple PCs watching over them?
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Dany and Viserys can fly. From there, they could take them if it were necessary.
 
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MTB said:
Wake up? He's a lich, he's not sleeping, he's imprisoned and wants to GET OUT.
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Actually, the only reason he's still imprisoned is that he is indeed sleeping. Granted, it's an unwilling slumber, but it's still a slumber.
DragonParadox said:
A roar on ancient rage and long shackled might rings all around you. The ground beneath your feet shakes and the air quivers as fear finds its way back into your thoughts... You almost break the flow of words... you almost falter. the ancient presence fades, drawn back into unquiet slumber by ancient bonds it cannot resist.
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