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It minimizes the benefit to practically nothing in a forest. There's comparatively less danger in open fields, where you can see all around. But in forests? Good luck. That's beastman territory, or goblin territory, or tree-demon territory, and you get the point. Airpower isn't sufficient to protect workers on the ground. The trees would make it too difficult to spot and leverage the ship's firepower. You're going to need boots on the ground for that. You'll need scouts to maintain perimeters. Every fighter you bring will slow down work all the more, minimizing any actual benefit it would bring. How many people is a medium-sized force supposed to be anyways?
I will note that many of the sites that forward pioneering work would be required at, or that would be chosen for such work, would be less hostile to a flying ship's support (of a ground force because, as you say, an aerial presence on its own traditionally cannot hold ground). A marching camp is likely to be set up in a place where the trees are sparser - a glade or the like - whereas a river crossing would obviously have its own large open space and a marsh would be more likely to have a thinner treeline. Plus, of course, there's magic as a major variable here - can interact with the terrain in myriad different ways! (Hmm. Note to self: consider whether an X-ray vision spell or something like it would be Azyr, Hysh, Ulgu or something else. That could be handy regardless of anything to do with skyships.)

No, that is exceedingly unlikely. Boney has expressed a willingness to world build for Cathay if the thread votes for it in the past. The most recent comment about it (in the museum thread) said that going there is 'off the table.' Boney might still be willing to make Cathay if Divided Loyalties votes to go there. That and proposes something interesting enough to make him willing to do it. But I'm pretty sure that you can bet that Boney won't extend an offer like you are proposing. It would be only Cathay on the table, if it is even an option. Ind, Khuresh, ect have even less for Boney to work off of. Which means Boney would have to do even more work comparatively.
Ach, that's a shame, though obviously entirely understandable from a writing/worldbuilding perspective. Genuinely really fascinated about some of the lore that has come out about Cathay (as my posts here, I'm sure, have long revealed), so it'd be a delight to see Boney explore it; at least Nerdasaurus' post offers hope in that regard!

Nonetheless, there are other places to go to, of course - the distant considerations of expanding the Waystone Project far to the North, the thought that was discussed at one point of examining the Geomantic Web... The freedom offered by a skyship brings those dreams, and ones like them, a touch closer to reality. That would be part of the appeal as I see it!

In any case, think I'm drifting sleepwards - feel free to respond but I doubt I'll have any rejoinder to offer! Appreciate the robust discussion, MrHobbit.
 
AA + Von Tarnus also means you can tank light artillery, like mortar shrapnel or a mundane ballista. Don't try and bounce a great cannon's shot off of your mystically armored abs though.
 
Ithilmar armor can be enchnted, but Aethyric Armour the spell is incompatible with actual armour, as per its spellbook entry. The one known exception to thatis the Armour of Von Tarnus because his branding as a wizard in heavy armour overrides that. I think it's theoretically possible to get a set of ithilmar armour to stack, but first we'd have to find the second coming of Von Tarnus with the right paradigm and enchanting skills.

I would not hold high hopes for getting Dwarfs to rune ithilmar. Here's a bunch of answers Boney's given over time on that subject:




Armour of Von Tarnus + AA stacking:
Well, that elucidates quite a bit.

If runic-enchantment of a suit of Ithilmar armor is such a long shot, then our second-best bet would be Windherding enchantment of We-silk robes to create something really potent. But the armor of Von Tarnus is even better than that, it seems.

In terms of practicality, the armor of Von Tarnus suits Mathilde well because she's already equipped to be a powerful melee combatant wading into the fray and cutting enemies down by the score, with her unique sword dishing out lots of damage, her Dread Aspect spell (I can't remember the name, but it's the one that causes terror in all nearby enemies who see it) that causes her shadow arcane mark to start making multi-attacks on foes automatically, her runic belt that automatically counterattacks and helps mitigate enemy magical attacks, two enchanted dwarven revolvers, and the ability to cast battle magic that debuffs enemies en masse without the usual battle magic risks. The fact that her Aethyric Armor mastery makes her tireless ties it all together. Throw in the Seed of Regrowth for when she does take wounds, and you've got a melee murderblender.

In terms of results, having that kind of capability would allow for Mathilde to be more bold in acquiring research materials to write papers on and accomplishing good deeds, which is what the academic grant is supposed to do. It can go wherever and whenever we go, and is useful in any fight, big or small.

It is a shame, though, that we can't use our boon to get a suit of ithilmar armor and stack it with AA. A human wizard wearing a suit of ithilmar armor wearing a Witch Hunter's hat and with a dwarf's long plaits wielding a runic gromril greatsword in one hand and a dragonbone staff in the other is a striking image. Doubly so with two dwarven revolvers in holsters at her hips. Showing up to Ulthuan or Laurelorn wearing that would be a fun experience.

Say...

@Boney : is there a rune for a suit of plate armor to adjust itself to fit the wearer? So if, hypothetically, we commissioned a suit of gromril armor for the Emperor (or Reiksmarshal), would there be the option of a rune that would allow for future emperors to also wear it?
 
I don't think studying the vampire skulls are an explicit Article violation (I'd be very surprised if the witch hunters and Amethysts don't already do something similar), but I do see the need to be cautious with them.
What would he even be trying to do with the skulls, develop a unified theory of vampiric phrenology? I doubt that would be over the line, but identifying vampires from their skulls wouldn't be that big a deal, would it?
 
What would he even be trying to do with the skulls, develop a unified theory of vampiric phrenology? I doubt that would be over the line, but identifying vampires from their skulls wouldn't be that big a deal, would it?

My line of thinking is that the study would be along the lines of identifying physiological differences between the different bloodlines, and then using our big ass library to hypothesize on why those differences might have come about (we have a +11 bonus to vampires), whilst also providing a handy reference manual for anyone who might need to identify vampires. The study would be better of if we had a skull from each of the old world bloodlines—we're missing a Lahamian and a Von Carstein—but two Strigoi, a Necrarch, a blood dragon, and a varghulf isn't a bad collection (Boney once said that it is impossible to tell which bloodline the varghulf came from, suggesting that there's some sort of convergent evolution that turns all vampires into the same type of being, irregardless of their original bloodline).

Of course, I don't actually know what we'll learn until we do it, but that's always been my assumption on the matter, and it's possible that it'll stray into some touchy subjects, like the regeneration, which is almost certainly powered by dhar, or expose to the colleges that we have enough vampire skulls on hand to do comparative studies on them, which could be awkward if we weren't already a lady magister in good standing.
 
Is very much a random thought but wanted to get some feedback on a spell idea I had.
Ambiguous Aura is the name that was floating in my head and it would function similarly to divination in some ways. Much like a shadow hides at noon yet is still visible, even hidden mysteries draw ulgu to them. The wizard may not be able to see the mystery but much like the corona of a star, the heat haze of a fire you can tell something is there. The main drawback that I was thinking was it cannot tell you what the mystery is or it's precise location. (IE you could narrow the bolt-hole of the cult to the district of the city but not it's location.)
A kind of you can tell something is there even though there is no confusion about it's presence, the mystery is it's presence in that location.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
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Boney once said that it is impossible to tell which bloodline the varghulf came from, suggesting that there's some sort of convergent evolution that turns all vampires into the same type of being, irregardless of their original bloodline
It could also suggest that Mathilde doesn't know whatever markings Varghulfs have to differentiate bloodlines as she's only seen one IIRC. Or that only one bloodline produces varghulfs, though that's a long shot IMO.
 
@Boney : I forget, can Ithilmar armor--enchanted or not--stack with Aethyric Armor?

No. The advantage Ithilmar provides for Wizards is that it doesn't interfere with general spellcasting in the same way heavy armour usually does.

If not, could Mathilde cast AA and get her Indefatigable effect even if the magic doesn't provide protection?

Yes.

You mentioned in the past that getting Runesmiths to enchant ithilmar armor would be "an adventure" or something along those lines--can you elaborate on that?

In the sense that the word 'adventure' connotes difficulty, enjoyability, unpredictable results, and personal growth.

Lastly, how much additional protection does the Armor of Von Tarnus provide to AA?

Absurdly.

@Boney : is there a rune for a suit of plate armor to adjust itself to fit the wearer? So if, hypothetically, we commissioned a suit of gromril armor for the Emperor (or Reiksmarshal), would there be the option of a rune that would allow for future emperors to also wear it?

No, but this is largely a solved problem. Entire industries of highly skilled artisans exist to make people fit into armour, either because they inherited or purchased it or because it has been battered into a different shape than it originally had.

Is very much a random thought but wanted to get some feedback on a spell idea I had.
Ambiguous Aura is the name that was floating in my head and it would function similarly to divination in some ways. Much like a shadow hides at noon yet is still visible, even hidden mysteries draw ulgu to them. The wizard may not be able to see the mystery but much like the corona of a star, the heat haze of a fire you can tell something is there. The main drawback that I was thinking was it cannot tell you what the mystery is or it's precise location. (IE you could narrow the bolt-hole of the cult to the district of the city but not it's location.)
A kind of you can tell something is there even though there is no confusion about it's presence, the mystery is it's presence in that location.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

I think the base idea is solid, though the actual implementation of the spell would need some sort of drawback to keep it from making a mockery of the concepts of 'crime' and 'espionage' - probably being prone to finding the more everyday kind of secrets if it's not properly wielded, requiring someone to have at least a general idea of what they're looking for to direct the magic properly. But that said, I don't think Mathilde as she currently is would be the sort of person to be able to create this magic - she's currently more concerned with the kind of mysteries this sort of magic wouldn't work on.
 
No, but this is largely a solved problem. Entire industries of highly skilled artisans exist to make people fit into armour, either because they inherited or purchased it or because it has been battered into a different shape than it originally had.
The way I'm reading this phrasing, the artificers leave the armour alone and adjust the person to fit. Presumably involving personal trainers, dieticians etc.
 
The way I'm reading this phrasing, the artificers leave the armour alone and adjust the person to fit. Presumably involving personal trainers, dieticians etc.
I didn't read it that way, and I know from real life that resizing and fitting armor plate is a commonplace thing.

There are probably practical limits (a man who is 5'5" tall really shouldn't be using armor sized for someone who is 6'4" tall) but there's still a fair amount of wiggle room assuming the people involved are average-sized.
 
I will note that many of the sites that forward pioneering work would be required at, or that would be chosen for such work, would be less hostile to a flying ship's support (of a ground force because, as you say, an aerial presence on its own traditionally cannot hold ground). A marching camp is likely to be set up in a place where the trees are sparser - a glade or the like - whereas a river crossing would obviously have its own large open space and a marsh would be more likely to have a thinner treeline. Plus, of course, there's magic as a major variable here - can interact with the terrain in myriad different ways! (Hmm. Note to self: consider whether an X-ray vision spell or something like it would be Azyr, Hysh, Ulgu or something else. That could be handy regardless of anything to do with skyships.)

Ach, that's a shame, though obviously entirely understandable from a writing/worldbuilding perspective. Genuinely really fascinated about some of the lore that has come out about Cathay (as my posts here, I'm sure, have long revealed), so it'd be a delight to see Boney explore it; at least Nerdasaurus' post offers hope in that regard!

Nonetheless, there are other places to go to, of course - the distant considerations of expanding the Waystone Project far to the North, the thought that was discussed at one point of examining the Geomantic Web... The freedom offered by a skyship brings those dreams, and ones like them, a touch closer to reality. That would be part of the appeal as I see it!
They would still be able to act with near impunity from the woods. And I will repeat: the more soldiers the ship brings to garrison, the less work can actually be done. How many people is a medium amount? A hundred? A hundred people needing to be split over guarding, fore guards, and laboring doesn't leave for much the building to be done. And away from the main army, it's going to be a hell of a lot more vulnerable to attack than not skipping ahead and doing things the simple way. This is a lot of justification for something that isn't going to happen very often, if at all.

The waystone network cannot be expanded to the north. We need nexuses to do that. The only nexuses that we can acquire are in the Border Princes. Those would have to be placed there. The Dwarves wouldn't accept another answer once we make building new nexuses a possibility. Ulthuan almost certainly won't share. If you mean building more waystones in Kislev or just in general really, the ship is pointless for that. Mathilde does not build waystones. She just goes to the local power, convinces them that waystones are a good thing, and points them in the direction of people who can do it.

So what exactly will we get out of the ship?
 
It could also suggest that Mathilde doesn't know whatever markings Varghulfs have to differentiate bloodlines as she's only seen one IIRC. Or that only one bloodline produces varghulfs, though that's a long shot IMO.
Varghulfs are an odd bit- I think if you read through the 7th edition army book it almost seems to be replacing the prior implementation of the Strigoi with them, but then 8th edition made Strigoi Ghoul Kings a standard lord type.
 
I think the base idea is solid, though the actual implementation of the spell would need some sort of drawback to keep it from making a mockery of the concepts of 'crime' and 'espionage' - probably being prone to finding the more everyday kind of secrets if it's not properly wielded, requiring someone to have at least a general idea of what they're looking for to direct the magic properly. But that said, I don't think Mathilde as she currently is would be the sort of person to be able to create this magic - she's currently more concerned with the kind of mysteries this sort of magic wouldn't work on.
Almost too bad, that spell actually sounds like a neat hook for a very different kind of grey wizard quest. Primarily because it feels a bit evocative of the development of radar, but for human scale espionage instead of vehicles.

I could see a whole plot starting around some clever grey wizard developing a primitive version of the spell that's finicky and annoying but also lets you build a heat map of mysteries in an area, accidentally breaking the game like they're the new god of spying.

Then the whole play and counter play of people trying to minimize their profile or blind the spell starts, and you end up with a ridiculous wizard shadow war. One where different parties do stuff like arrange for multiple entirely unrelated and highly suspicious circuses to visit town on the same day to hide a dead drop consisting of a regular courier delivering a letter containing the bluntest possible messages for a conspiracy to evade detection.
 
I admit I'll be pretty sad to see the ship lose here. Been thinking about it for months now.

Key things for me is
1. Crew Building
2. Being able to fly to damn near any nation with some careful planning.
3. Lighting a fire under peoples asses that flying ships could be a decently viable path with magic assistance.
 
Would've preferred the tower, but that's nowhere near close to winning.
You can still vote for the Tower, and any other desired option, if you want to. There's no harm in it.

It might be easier to go to Cathay if the rumoured Old World: Cathay army book is any good, but seeing as it hasn't been officially announced (as far as I am aware) and there's at least two more factions in the pipeline before them, it'll be a while before we can see it.
Forgot to respond to this. It hasn't been officially announced, but Cathay has practically been confirmed as the first faction to come after the Wood Elves. Warhammer Community shared a teaser of the release schedule: High Elves, then Beastmen, the Wood Elves. Then there was a box that only had a picture of a mountain shown. That mountain was identified as coming from Total War: Warhammer III's Cathay loading screen. The one with the Shugengan riding a horse at the fore backed by Jade Lancers, with a Terracotta Sentinel in the background.
 
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I admit I'll be pretty sad to see the ship lose here. Been thinking about it for months now.

Key things for me is
1. Crew Building
2. Being able to fly to damn near any nation with some careful planning.
3. Lighting a fire under peoples asses that flying ships could be a decently viable path with magic assistance.
The problems are myriad:
1) Having a crew means having a lot of people working for you all the time that need to be fed, paid, and trained. In operating a flying ship. Perpetuals don't normally operate ships of any kind.
2) We can already do this with our gyrocarriage, even moreso if we enchant it with Inextinguishable Flame and Silence on the passenger compartment to make it both comfortable and very long-ranged. We can even bring a number of people and some stuff with us on the journey. In other words, this is a capability we already have.
3) The problem isn't that the idea isn't viable, it's that it's expensive. A flying ship like this is a major project for the Colleges of Magic. A ship is expensive to begin with; a flying ship requires lots of valuable wizard hours, power stones, the right enchantments, and a crew that knows how to operate a flying ship. Now, granted, you could probably fund a small fleet of these if they regularly ran a trade route to Cathay and back due to being able to avoid the usual risks of the route, but at some point you'd hit diminishing returns and limits on the wizard-hours and power stones available to build the things (and crew capable of operating them).

The thing about flying ships is that their biggest utility isn't in their ability to rain cannon fire from the sky (though that is potent in open ground where you have clear lines of sight onto formations of the enemy), it's their ability to travel over otherwise impassible or dangerous terrain with ease to take valuable cargo across big distances. This makes them excellent for trade routes across dangerous terrain, like Cathay/Ind/Kuresh, or for sending specialists to Cathay for favor trading and such. At sea, they'd be powerful but too few in number to be decisive.

The problem for the Empire is that much of its land is in dense forests, which is where a lot of its enemies hang out (and the skaven hang out underground). So a flying warship would not be a superweapon in most contexts as natural cover is just too prevalent. Kislev would be a different story, though.
 
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