Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
To be completely fair he was arguably the best of a bad crop, the only option there I would probably have taken in his place is Bette Sans Souci but the others were either extremely unimpressive or even more suspicious. Iirc a big part of the reason we went with Komarov is because we knew he was a Russian spy as opposed to the other top contenders and could theoretically try to use him to our advantage.

That being said I do somewhat regret that we fumbled that opportunity, though I do find it morbidly amusing that there's now a Russian spy and prospective member of the Rocket Red Brigade out there somewhere who is completely terrified of us.

Then you shouldn't have recruited any of them.

I'm kinda hoping that we can put Raven, Rebecca and maybe Mina on "learn about demons" next turn to allow us to grab as much information as we can on Trigon and Incubus and hopefully her helping out with that will a,ke Eve like her a bit more?

Given the propaganda action, Pamela would be better than Mina.

As for Mina... Well, if Carol's martial gets to 36, then Carol + Mina will be 98, so I would prefer having them train together. If not, then Mina and Meena would be 63 together and should tackle wards.

Again I hold that more a failing of us not making use of the available systems than of Ivo himself.

If we'd made use of the labs and double downs Ivo's desire to keep working on Amazo wouldn't have been that much more of a pain than the sisters wanting to work on pharmaceuticals or Karl wanting to work in the bone formula.

If Ivo wasn't put on an AMAZO action every single turn his coops with everyone would drop and he could start taking actions behind our back. This is much worse than those things you brought up.

I'm not sure how much labs would've helped either. Even if you dropped the DC from 120 to 80 in his last action, he still didn't have the coops to consistently beat that. He was awful.

What would have helped him would've been taking the brain transplant guy and implanting Ivo in some intergang captive. That way he would've had a bigger timetable and could've taken supplementary actions to build his knowledge base up for AMAZO over a long period of time. As it was, I don't think that the labs would've saved him from himself.

It would never be a recreation of the bat family. No Luthor has nearly the amount of trust issues or double life dynamics of the bat family, and I wouldn't be pushing for Lex to adopt either of the other two in the first place. Barbara would be more of a pupil to Lex and Jason might have been either Pam and Kate's kid or possibly trained up to head the DIR someday.

I just think that recruiting Batman's proteges obsessively is a bit lame. I'd rather recruit either lesser known characters or people with superpowers.

Barbara wouldn't have made for a good addition due to being so embroiled in Gotham. Jason is a bigger what if but I don't see what he brings to the table that Rose or Jinx Don't.

Speaking of proteges, we already have Jinx and people weren't too keen on investing in her either. People also didn't want to adopt Ace way back when which is a bit telling since IMO Jinx and Ace > Barbara and Jason.
 
what are you talking about? We've always been interested in investing in jinx. You can't compare everyone on the scale of cassandra. I've discussed already a desire to get her on a learn about shadow magic action next turn.

I wasn't here to pass on ace or try to keep her, even if I wouldn't have adopted her.

I respect that you find recruiting batman's prodigies lame, respect that I don't agree, for all that the opportunity has likely passed us by.
 
what are you talking about? We've always been interested in investing in jinx. You can't compare everyone on the scale of cassandra. I've discussed already a desire to get her on a learn about shadow magic action next turn.

Alright so I went over all of the previous turns and reviewed all of the actions that Jinx participated in since she was taken in.

Jinx was recruited in turn 11 and took her first action on turn 12. Out of all of those actions, below is a short breakdown

1. recruiting Jinx a tutor (that she hated) and having said tutor by her a pet the following turn. It took 9 turns to replace the tutor Jinx hated with a tutor she liked.
2. It took 7 turns to build Jinx living quarters and they ended up being crap
3. it took 17 turns for Jinx to gain a basic level of control over her own magic

Out of all available child actions (17), Jinx only participated in 6, maybe 7 if you count her time with Zatanna. Only once, once, was any hero unit who is not Jinx's tutor put on an action to help Jinx improve (Rebecca taught Jinx some magic) and even then it was a super half-hearted effort.

In the five turns since she became an "adult," no one taught her anything either.

You talk about how there is an interest in improving Jinx and how great she is, and a lot of players seem to love her but the fact is that the players... really don't give a shit about her, and they never have. At this point this is a fact.

Regarding next turn... Well, depending on Cassandra's stewardship,I was thinking about either recruiting a martial arts tutor or having her do that "run the company" action. Both would probably need Jinx and Starfire. We'll need to see.
 
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Alright so I went over all of the previous turns and reviewed all of the actions that Jinx participated in since she was taken in.

Jinx was recruited in turn 11 and took her first action on turn 12. Out of all of those actions, below is a short breakdown

1. recruiting Jinx a tutor (that she hated) and having said tutor by her a pet the following turn. It took 9 turns to replace the tutor Jinx hated with a tutor she liked.
2. It took 7 turns to build Jinx living quarters and they ended up being crap
3. it took 17 turns for Jinx to gain a basic level of control over her own magic

Out of all available child actions (17), Jinx only participated in 6, maybe 7 if you count her time with Zatanna. Only once, once, was any hero unit who is not Jinx's tutor put on an action to help Jinx improve (Rebecca taught Jinx some magic) and even then it was a super half-hearted effort.

In the five turns since she became an "adult," no one taught her anything either.

You talk about how there is an interest in improving Jinx and how great she is, and a lot of players seem to love her but the fact is that the players... really don't give a shit about her, and they never have. At this point this is a fact.

Regarding next turn... Well, depending on Cassandra's stewardship,I was thinking about either recruiting a martial arts tutor or having her do that "run the company" action. Both would probably need Jinx and Starfire. We'll need to see.

Fine, the thread never cared about her. I do. I care about her enough I very much would have skipped Cassandra's special action to fix her and ravens coop as part of socialization. The first turn I participated in had a cass special action that benefited Jinx. The poor hero maintenance and development other than Cassandra is one of the threads greatest failings, but I try to not focus on that beyond correcting it, which I've busted my ass in this thread in pursuit of.

Frankly this discussion of the threads past was a huge mistake I'd like to leave behind.

I'd prefer to take some manner of diplomacy socialization. It's more in line with Cassandra's desire for a degree of freedom and interaction with the world under her contro. In general though we don't get know how well expanding Lexcorp went or Lexpo for that matter and both will factor into next turn in a big way.
 
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Fine, the thread never cared about her. I do. I care about her enough I very much would have skipped Cassandra's special action to fix her and ravens coop as part of socialization. The first turn I participated in had a cass special action that benefited Jinx. The poor hero maintenance and development other than Cassandra is one of the threads greatest failings, but I try to not focus on that beyond correcting it, which I've busted my ass in this thread in pursuit of.

Frankly this discussion of the threads past was a huge mistake I'd like to leave behind.

I'd prefer to take some manner of diplomacy socialization. It's more in line with Cassandra's desire for a degree of freedom and interaction with the world under her contro. In general though we don't get know how well expanding Lexcorp went or Lexpo for that matter and both will factor into next turn in a big way.

But that's not really about improving Jinx, is it? Fixing Raven and Jinx's relationship doesn't actually address Jinx's underlying issues, it just means those issues won't apply to Raven specifically. Raven is the focus of that action. Similarly, the action you're talking (I assume turn 29) was about training Jinx to work better with Cassandra. Her increased Stewardship and improved relationship with Lex were just lucky side effects of a high roll, not the actual goal.

When it comes to genuinely building a team and taking an action specifically meant to improve Jinx as a hero unit, with real, meaningful effort, there hasn't been a single instance of that happening.

As for having Cassandra interact with the world… that's fine, I suppose. I really want her to get that martial arts tutor and have them take actions on our behalf. I also think having her run part of the company aligns well with what she wants. Right now, I'm more focused on improving Cassandra, so I'm fine keeping her social interactions limited to events and mini-events for the time being. We'll have to see how this turn plays out.
 
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Then you shouldn't have recruited any of them.
I would argue that that's easier said than done.

Call it sunk cost fallacy if you like but when we've already spent an action on recruitment and increased the future DC in doing so it's basically impossible to get people to agree to reject all the options and make that action a complete waste rather than just take the least objectionable option.
 
Not going to comment on too much but I do want to talk about something.
Jinx was recruited in turn 11 and took her first action on turn 12. Out of all of those actions, below is a short breakdown

1. recruiting Jinx a tutor (that she hated) and having said tutor by her a pet the following turn. It took 9 turns to replace the tutor Jinx hated with a tutor she liked.
2. It took 7 turns to build Jinx living quarters and they ended up being crap
3. it took 17 turns for Jinx to gain a basic level of control over her own magic

Out of all available child actions (17), Jinx only participated in 6, maybe 7 if you count her time with Zatanna. Only once, once, was any hero unit who is not Jinx's tutor put on an action to help Jinx improve (Rebecca taught Jinx some magic) and even then it was a super half-hearted effort.

In the five turns since she became an "adult," no one taught her anything either.

You talk about how there is an interest in improving Jinx and how great she is, and a lot of players seem to love her but the fact is that the players... really don't give a shit about her, and they never have. At this point this is a fact.
I might be misremembering but I believe this is somewhat misleading as data. There are actions that were not about improving Jinx's stats but are about improving her loyalty that were arguably an investment into her, including actions that were not child actions.

Here's a breakdown of what the thread did with Jinx to try and build her up ignoring the personal actions for the first ten turns they had her
  • Turn 11: recruited her
  • Turn 13: attempted to buy Jinx a pet to get her to be more fond of LexCorp
  • Turn 14: Educated Jinx about writing and literature
  • Turn 16: Attempted to build a dedicated living space for Jinx (they failed but the thread attempted this in five turns, not 7)
  • Turn 16: Educated Jinx about writing and literature
  • Turn 17: Educated Jinx on acting
  • Turn 18: Educated Jinx about writing and literature
  • Turn 19: Attempted to build a dedicated living space for Jinx
  • Turn 20: Educated Jinx on acting
That's a small snippet of things but on turn 11 to turn 21, not counting personal actions, the thread spent 8 actions in 10 turns trying to improve Jinx in some capacity (I'm not counting turn 11 where the thread recruited her). I haven't gone and checked everything but people regularly tried to improve Jinx at least in the beginning.

The claim that people "never gave a shit about Jinx" is patently false, and demonstrably so. The thread wasn't necessarily good at developing Jinx or doing so in the most optimal manner, but I think the fact that in the first ten turns since getting her, there were 8 separate non-personal action attempts to make Jinx better in some way is a solid rebuttal to that claim.

Edit: You can argue that people aren't doing enough for Jinx, but when you compare Jinx to most hero units, the quest has sunk in significantly more effort into improving her than most other units.
 
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Ah damn, now I'm getting dragged into this more and more...

It also took a lot of reading to confirm the facts of the matter in some cases and even then I could probably use more reading.

Not going to comment on too much but I do want to talk about something.

I might be misremembering but I believe this is somewhat misleading as data. There are actions that were not about improving Jinx's stats but are about improving her loyalty that were arguably an investment into her, including actions that were not child actions.

I don't consider these actions as actual improvements for Jinx. The thread made a major effort to convince Jinx to become Cassandra's second-in-command, but that didn't lead to any meaningful growth for her.

You argue that this was "arguably an investment in her," but I see it more as securing an existing investment rather than actively improving her. In a broad sense, you could say that securing an investment is still a form of investment, but I'm not in the mood for that talking point..

Here's a breakdown of what the thread did with Jinx to try and build her up ignoring the personal actions for the first ten turns they had her
  • Turn 11: recruited her
  • Turn 13: attempted to buy Jinx a pet to get her to be more fond of LexCorp
  • Turn 14: Educated Jinx about writing and literature
  • Turn 16: Attempted to build a dedicated living space for Jinx (they failed but the thread attempted this in five turns, not 7)
  • Turn 16: Educated Jinx about writing and literature
  • Turn 17: Educated Jinx on acting
  • Turn 18: Educated Jinx about writing and literature
  • Turn 19: Attempted to build a dedicated living space for Jinx
  • Turn 20: Educated Jinx on acting
That's a small snippet of things but on turn 11 to turn 21, not counting personal actions, the thread spent 8 actions in 10 turns trying to improve Jinx in some capacity (I'm not counting turn 11 where the thread recruited her). I haven't gone and checked everything but people regularly tried to improve Jinx at least in the beginning.

Alright, let's go through your list:
  • Turn 11 – Recruited Jinx.
  • Turn 12 – Had Marie hire a tutor for her. This was actually the first time people seriously considered creating living quarters for Jinx, despite claims that it happened five times before. Notably, they hired a tutor she didn't like and took no action to address it for a long time.
  • Turn 13 – Took a 0-DC throwaway action to buy Jinx a pet, which auto-failed. This required no real investment, and Jinx herself was assigned elsewhere. The action was chosen specifically because it didn't need Jinx and was the easiest option among those.
  • Turn 14 – Taught Jinx literature with Emily. That's one meaningful action. The plan to build her a room was discussed again but fell through.
  • Turn 15 – Put Jinx on the bone formula. The room-building plan stalled in discussions for the third time.
  • Turn 16 – Successfully passed a planning stage to build her a room for the first time, but the action itself failed. Assigned Jinx another literature lesson. That's two meaningful actions.
  • Turn 17 – Educated Jinx on acting. That's three.
  • Turn 18 – Jinx studied more literature on her own. That's four.
  • Turn 19 – Assigned Lisa and Jinx to building Jinx's room. Looking through the planning phase, Lisa was only assigned because the other Rogues took a stewardship action and Lisa was considered useless elsewhere. Finally hired a tutor for Jinx. This took seven turns (from Turn 13 to 19).
  • Turn 20 – Scored a big win with the new tutor on acting.
This breakdown makes it pretty clear that Jinx's development was inherently deprioritized. Whenever possible, players preferred not to deal with Jinx. Even when building her a room, actually putting a hero unit on that task was effectively a last resort after a series of failures, and even then she got table scraps (Lisa isn't a Stewardship powerhouse to put it mildly)

The claim that people "never gave a shit about Jinx" is patently false, and demonstrably so. The thread wasn't necessarily good at developing Jinx or doing so in the most optimal manner, but I think the fact that in the first ten turns since getting her, there were 8 separate non-personal action attempts to make Jinx better in some way is a solid rebuttal to that claim.

Edit: You can argue that people aren't doing enough for Jinx, but when you compare Jinx to most hero units, the quest has sunk in significantly more effort into improving her than most other units.

No, it's not patently false, and I don't think that's a strong rebuttal. In fact, looking at the full context of the examples only reinforces my point.

In every example you listed, no actual hero unit from the roster was specifically assigned to work with Jinx or teach her. The only reason they even hired a tutor was because they didn't want to allocate additional resources to improving Jinx, as Cassandra was already considered too demanding (people were opposed to adopting her due to not wanting other players to "nag" them even more about improving Lex's children than they already had. Even Cassandra wasn't always popular.) Any time someone worked with Jinx, it was only because they weren't needed elsewhere. She was consistently deprioritized, and most of her progress came from her tutor, mainly when she wasn't required for other tasks due to her low stats.

Notably, after Jinx succeeded in a major action on turn 20 and her stats improved, she only took two self-improvement actions between turns 21 and 28 (excluding her trip to Zatanna). During turns 12-28, only once was a hero unit assigned to train her that wasn't her dedicated tutor. Even then, it only happened because you mentioned that magic becomes harder to learn with age, causing people to panic over it and wanting Jinx to sort her own situation ASAP.

Additionally, Jinx's improvement was partially due to the way child actions were made available. Specifically, how they were "cheap" and "easy." Because of this, people felt comfortable investing minimal resources into them, much like they would with other low-DC actions. Plus, since these actions could be chosen later and didn't count against the total number of available actions per turn, they didn't compete with higher-priority tasks. Without that incentive, Jinx would have received even less support.

My main point is that not once did people actually make sacrifices elsewhere to improve Jinx. The only big action (in terms of resources) that had to do with Jinx was about convincing her to become Cassandra's number two woman, and even then I'd argue that it was at least partially because you warned people that Jinx would resist that action.

TL;DR I really can't agree with your conclusions.
 
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Ah damn, now I'm getting dragged into this more and more...
I don't want to drag this out anymore than necessary so I apologize a bit for my follow-up response, but I did want to follow up.
I don't consider these actions as actual improvements for Jinx. The thread made a major effort to convince Jinx to become Cassandra's second-in-command, but that didn't lead to any meaningful growth for her.

You argue that this was "arguably an investment in her," but I see it more as securing an existing investment rather than actively improving her. In a broad sense, you could say that securing an investment is still a form of investment, but I'm not in the mood for that talking point..
I think this is going to ultimately going to be an "agree to disagree" moment. I feel that coop score changes and the character development Jinx underwent do constitute meaningful growth. I felt that it very much was an investment because it was clearly trying to shape Jinx to fill a specific role, rather than keeping Jinx as is.

I don't want to dwell on this much more as you said you're not interested in discussing this and I think it will come down to perspective, but I wanted to provide why I felt the way I did.
This breakdown makes it pretty clear that Jinx's development was inherently deprioritized. Whenever possible, players preferred not to deal with Jinx. Even when building her a room, actually putting a hero unit on that task was effectively a last resort after a series of failures, and even then she got table scraps (Lisa isn't a Stewardship powerhouse to put it mildly)
I think you're looking at it from a "glass half empty" perspective. Yes Jinx's development was never something people dumped a ton of hero units on or heavily invested in, but compare her to other units like say Rebecca Carstairs and the thread pretty consistently chose to invest actions in improving her.

Again I think there's a separate argument to be had on whether or not the thread did it well, but in terms of continuously picking actions that would result in an improvement to the unit, the thread consistently did so for Jinx and did so more frequently than they did for a lot of other hero units.
TL;DR I really can't agree with your conclusions.
That's fine, I just wanted to point out that comparatively, there's been a lot more investment in Jinx than there has been into pretty much all non-Cassandra units.

I think that you're conclusion of "no one ever gave a shit" is too harsh. I'm not saying that it ever was a massive priority for people, but I wanted to point out that clearly people cared enough to consistently pick stuff about making Jinx better even when there were other options with similar DCs and they didn't always do that with every hero unit.
 
...I am kinda bemused by a lot of @WheelOfTime points of view on a number of characters, but that is cool, everyone will have favorites. I do think you're stating a lot of opinions as fact on your interpretations of past failures and successes. Which is fine, it's readily apparent that the notion of what constitutes a failure or success will be subjective to a degree, but maybe dial it back a bit.

I think that it's unlikely Ivo would have been placated by a brain transplant to a serious degree. He was already doing multiple organ transplants, first of all, so it's very possible the disease he had would have been transferred to a new body if the physical brain itself was as well. More importantly, it's clear he was obsessed with not just a robot body but a 'perfect' body which was why Amazo was so important to him.

Just curious, we DID get some kind of recording of his brain if I recall in personal actions a while back, anyone interested in trying to get Fixit to put Ivo in a robot body to see how he does? I do think some of the concern over Ivo was we had few true superpowered minions of our own at the time, but with a full team including Livewire, there's probably not so much reason to be worried about him going AWOL.
 
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I think that you're conclusion of "no one ever gave a shit" is too harsh. I'm not saying that it ever was a massive priority for people, but I wanted to point out that clearly people cared enough to consistently pick stuff about making Jinx better even when there were other options with similar DCs and they didn't always do that with every hero unit.

I know a lot of people really like Jinx as a character, but when evaluating these things, I focus on actions rather than words. What I see is that people took a lot of low-effort actions for Jinx, actions they were incentivized to take due to the game's mechanics. The tutor wasn't hired out of a strong desire to help Jinx improve but rather as a way to avoid putting in more effort. Whatever benefits she ended up receiving were largely unknowable.

Resources were much tighter back then, and the voting process was less organized, so I don't expect every turn to be about improving Jinx. But if, for 22 turns, the response to helping Jinx was always, "I'd really like to, but there's something more urgent right now," then that tells me she wasn't actually important at all. A clear example is the decision not to assign Mari to help build Jinx's room: If Mari and Jinx had worked together, they would have succeeded even with a roll of 1. But that option was never even considered, which speaks volumes.

I'm not saying this to be judgmental or to argue about how Jinx could have been improved. My point is simple: when it came down to choosing between Jinx and other priorities, people overwhelmingly chose other things and did so consistently. Putting in the effort when it's easy isn't indicative of anything IMO.

...I am kinda bemused by a lot of @WheelOfTime points of view on a number of characters, but that is cool, everyone will have favorites. I do think you're stating a lot of opinions as fact on your interpretations of past failures and successes. Which is fine, it's readily apparent that the notion of what constitutes a failure or success will be subjective to a degree, but maybe dial it back a bit.

I think that it's unlikely Ivo would have been placated by a brain transplant to a serious degree. He was already doing multiple organ transplants, first of all, so it's very possible the disease he had would have been transferred to a new body if the physical brain itself was as well. More importantly, it's clear he was obsessed with not just a robot body but a 'perfect' body which was why Amazo was so important to him.

Just curious, we DID get some kind of recording of his brain if I recall in personal actions a while back, anyone interested in trying to get Fixit to put Ivo in a robot body to see how he does? I do think some of the concern over Ivo was we had few true superpowered minions of our own at the time, but with a full team including Livewire, there's probably not so much reason to be worried about him going AWOL.

The core issue with Ivo, the reason he was in such a hurry, was his overwhelming fear of his impending death. He wasn't just motivated by ambition, he was outright terrified of dying. If that immediate risk had been removed through a transplant, he still would have been difficult to deal with and deeply invested in AMAZO, but his desperation would have lessened significantly without the looming threat of death.

If that were the case, it'd have been easier to have him take different actions to slowly build up to AMAZO to where I feel that by now he would be putting the finishing touches on the thing.

I'm not necessarily saying that it would have succeed, I'm saying that it would've been much better to push for that over Jarret Parker.
 
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Alright, let's go through your list:
  • Turn 11 – Recruited Jinx.
  • Turn 12 – Had Marie hire a tutor for her. This was actually the first time people seriously considered creating living quarters for Jinx, despite claims that it happened five times before. Notably, they hired a tutor she didn't like and took no action to address it for a long time.
  • Turn 13 – Took a 0-DC throwaway action to buy Jinx a pet, which auto-failed. This required no real investment, and Jinx herself was assigned elsewhere. The action was chosen specifically because it didn't need Jinx and was the easiest option among those.
  • Turn 14 – Taught Jinx literature with Emily. That's one meaningful action. The plan to build her a room was discussed again but fell through.
  • Turn 15 – Put Jinx on the bone formula. The room-building plan stalled in discussions for the third time.
  • Turn 16 – Successfully passed a planning stage to build her a room for the first time, but the action itself failed. Assigned Jinx another literature lesson. That's two meaningful actions.
  • Turn 17 – Educated Jinx on acting. That's three.
  • Turn 18 – Jinx studied more literature on her own. That's four.
  • Turn 19 – Assigned Lisa and Jinx to building Jinx's room. Looking through the planning phase, Lisa was only assigned because the other Rogues took a stewardship action and Lisa was considered useless elsewhere. Finally hired a tutor for Jinx. This took seven turns (from Turn 13 to 19).
  • Turn 20 – Scored a big win with the new tutor on acting.
Okay, so we also assigned her at least once to actions alongside Helena at least in part because Helena is known to bias the reward tables towards improving the stats of younger characters also on the action. I'm pretty sure that we also used some Zatanna favors on her behalf.

"Put Jinx on the bone formula" sounds wildly inaccurate to me - not only that I don't recall this, but that I find it hard to imagine that we would have.

As far as violently competing demands on our time? We've had that about a lot of things. We are constantly dropping stuff that is obviously good and worthwhile and important. We haven't really gotten started on Gingko fruit. We had a fair library of augmentation options at this point that we keep not using. We could be powering up our superheroes with custom outfits and we haven't been doing that. Our LexCar and Kryptonite Proliferation efforts have been stalled for a while. The LexPhone hasn't seen a real update since Brainiac.

That said, even ignoring as much as can reasonably be ignored, even you have acknowledged that we spent five actions on Jinx over the course of ten turns. Five meaningful actions in ten turns is a lot. Like, which other heroes have gotten that kind of direct investment? Has anyone else gotten that level other than Cassandra?
 
We need human like AI to use the data to recreate his personality I think.
Yeah we have a road map to his brain but our attempt at human level AI that we did a long time ago went insane.
That's something else that improving the LMD's might also get us. While our primary focus with them is improving their physical form for Marie they do also involve human like AI.

Though I suppose ana argument could be made that if Fixit can upload a human consciousness into a robot there's no reason to he couldn't do the same with a recording of Ivo's personality.
Or we can just talk to the Reds
Ehh I'm not sure how happy the Reds would be to help us develop that level of AI nor how useful they'd be without us reverse engineering them.

Will Magnus in the other hand, he could be useful. He did build the Metal Men after all…
 
From what I remember, if we get our hands on Responsometer, we will be able to make "Metal Man" made of Kryptonite
 
From what I remember, if we get our hands on Responsometer, we will be able to make "Metal Man" made of Kryptonite
We could make our own Kryptonite Man after the last one vanished.

Or better yet a Krypto-Knight!
All the same I'd prefer for it to be a sure thing and work on AI development just in case. Especially if we're going to "improve" Ivo's temperament before we upload him.
That's fair and I am inclined to agree.
 
This will be my last time talking about this since I don't have the endurance to keep going.

Okay, so we also assigned her at least once to actions alongside Helena at least in part because Helena is known to bias the reward tables towards improving the stats of younger characters also on the action. I'm pretty sure that we also used some Zatanna favors on her behalf.

"Put Jinx on the bone formula" sounds wildly inaccurate to me - not only that I don't recall this, but that I find it hard to imagine that we would have.

As far as violently competing demands on our time? We've had that about a lot of things. We are constantly dropping stuff that is obviously good and worthwhile and important. We haven't really gotten started on Gingko fruit. We had a fair library of augmentation options at this point that we keep not using. We could be powering up our superheroes with custom outfits and we haven't been doing that. Our LexCar and Kryptonite Proliferation efforts have been stalled for a while. The LexPhone hasn't seen a real update since Brainiac.

That said, even ignoring as much as can reasonably be ignored, even you have acknowledged that we spent five actions on Jinx over the course of ten turns. Five meaningful actions in ten turns is a lot. Like, which other heroes have gotten that kind of direct investment? Has anyone else gotten that level other than Cassandra?

The actions Helena and Jinx took together included gathering Brainiac technology, investigating the ley lines in Jump City, helping Helena with her revenge, and teaching Cassandra how to read contracts. Which specific action are you referring to?

The thread only arranged for Zatanna to tutor Jinx in magic because they didn't want to invest in teaching her themselves, and even then, it only happened after King Crimson warned them that magic becomes harder to learn with age.

The reason Jinx received the actions you're referring to is specifically because they were child actions. Since they were voted on separately, they didn't compete with other priorities. She also had a dedicated tutor (who was hired precisely so that players wouldn't have to invest effort themselves) and her stats were too low to contribute meaningfully elsewhere so it cost next to nothing to do it. Once she had a major success on Turn 20 and her Diplomacy and Intrigue improved, people stopped giving her actions entirely (from 5 in 10 to 7 in 17). It was only after an offhand comment from King Crimson that people started paying attention to her again. Otherwise, they were perfectly fine kicking that can down the road indefinitely.

Out of 17 possible actions, Jinx was assigned another hero unit exactly once. She never received the kind of dedicated team where 2-3 people helped her with her development. Whenever possible, people chose the easiest, lowest-effort actions for her.

I'm not saying people needed to go all out for Jinx for me to say that they cared about her, but it's telling that not once did the thread say, "No, we're putting this other thing on hold; right now, we're focusing on Jinx." That never happened. Not even once. I'm not expecting her to have been treated like Cassandra, but her education and training were never anything more than an afterthought.

As for the bone formula… I don't know what to tell you. That's the choice you guys made.

[ ] Improve bone growth formula
DC 65
Roll 10 + 19 (Pamela learning stat) + 17 (Karl learning stat times coop score with Pamela) + 11 (Jinx learning stat times coop score with Pamela rounded up)
Total 57
Minor Failure

Karl has also shown signs of irritability and developing instability. No progress was made on the bone growth formula as even with Pamela's expertise and Jinx's attempts to assist nothing was done. Karl has only grown more desperate and bitter. His mentality is becoming quite concerning and while he hasn't lashed out yet, the mounting anger and frustration makes him a potential time bomb. You need to figure out a solution to this problem and soon.

Results: No progress is made in improving the formula, Jinx and Karl's coop score -0.1

I don't say this to judge the thread. Maybe this course of action was the correct one, but I want to make clear that this is where things always stood with Jinx and AFAIK still do.
 
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Speaking of ideas that will never come to fruition, I'd like to point out this action:

[ ] Locate the Sword of Fan
DC 64 The Sword of Fan is a powerful mystical artifact lost somewhere in Micronesia. Supposedly the first emperor of China used it to unify the country under his reign. Such a powerful tool could prove highly effective for LexCorp's goal

Which is a sword that can spawn dragons out of whatever it cuts that are loyal to the user. With the big effort in learning about Zoology and ecology, Cassandra could maybe get a trait about leading animals or something along those lines, and then we could get her the sword and turn her into our dragon-riding dragon queen.

It was also used by the first emperor of China and is a symbol of a ruler that works particularly well since Cassandra is half Chinese and was born in China.
 
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@King crimson, how is the update coming along?
Terribly.

For a little bit of context just today I have a three hour test to take and need to fill out the bar exam application at midnight in order to be able to pick a testing center near where I live. For additional context, the bar exam I am taking is messed up because the people in charge of running things messed up so bad there are multiple class action law suits pending against the people who ran it (you can google "california bar exam class action" to get more info).

Suffice to say IRL issues are keeping me pretty busy.
 
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