Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
a lot of time passed since this quest started and lots of people came and went and theres a lot of retrospective. my question is if looking back at things you guys would've taken different deciscions knowing what you know and how things panned out and if so what?
Made a mistake with a job change for Siobhan. Caused her a lot of unnecessary stress. Would 100% have never done it given the chance.

Hiring Eve. Would 100% spend the points from that subvote on someone else given her hole advocating for their deaths.

If I could somehow do a better job convincing people that our enmity with wayne enterprises wouldn't just blow over and get Jace(metahuman scientist working for Wayne) I would.

If I'd been here for earlier chapters, I'd have had lex train Barbara in a subject that would shift her morality a little.
 
a lot of time passed since this quest started and lots of people came and went and theres a lot of retrospective. my question is if looking back at things you guys would've taken different deciscions knowing what you know and how things panned out and if so what?
There's not a lot that I would say I out and out regret but there are a couple of things that I think we could've done better. The main ones that stand out to me are:

If we had made better use of labs and double downs back in the day we probably could have made a lot more progress on Amazo before Ivo died.

If we had handled the Whisper A'Daire situation differently we might have been able to maintain our alliance with Ra's though given our current relationship that doesn't matter too much.

I probably wouldn't have given Kilgrave to Waller now that we know that she was never going to support us more than she absolutely has to.

Given what Wayne Enterprises ended up doing the very next turn I wish even more that we had grabbed Jace when we had the opportunity,

Probably the closest thing to an actual regret I have is how badly we fumbled our opportunity to get in good with Atlantis because of a bad write in.
Hiring Eve. Would 100% spend the points from that subvote on someone else given her hole advocating for their deaths.
While I'm not as hard on Eve as other are, I think her powers can be extremely useful in the right situation, she's our kind of morally flexible and she has a way for us to secure her loyalty, I'd probably swap her out for, say, Looker.
 
a lot of time passed since this quest started and lots of people came and went and theres a lot of retrospective. my question is if looking back at things you guys would've taken different deciscions knowing what you know and how things panned out and if so what?

A lot of decisions only end up seeming poor in retrospect, and a lot of decisions that were poor at the time worked out to be good. During the war with Brainiac, not making a deal with the Brain for his teleportation technology might've been the smart thing due to it being a black box, but literally a turn later we got Fixit who could've cracked the thing wide open with his trait and we'd have had free, unlimited teleportation by now.

As such, judging things with the context of "what we know now" is unfair.

Still, a few things come to mind that even without future context were probably a mistake. I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty of specific subvotes too much despite most of the problems being there. Similiarly, there are a lot of things that a lot of effort was put into, and then they were just abandoned, or actions that were very random. Keep in mind that this is entirely off the top of my head and I haven't finished reading the quest yet, but my thoughts are fresher than most others probably.

  1. Recruiting Professor Ivo was a mistake. His poor personality and obsession with his project caused more problems than he was worth. A lot of effort went into keeping him alive (like guarding his hospital after a stroke) and cleaning up his messes (handling interviews with Lois, detecting and removing radiation after he blew himself up). While he made significant discoveries, he was outshined by some of the other options. In hindsight, I would have recruited Toyman, Achilles Milo , Ray Palmer, or Ted Kord.any of whom would have been better choices.
  2. I wouldn't have recruited Kate.
  3. Not pushing for a majority control of STAR Labs way back in turn 6 was mistake. The DC was stupid low, and if we wanted to we would've had complete control of the company by like turn 10.
  4. Spending so much time and effort on the sword of Beowulf. Rebecca put in a lot of actions into that stupid piece of crap and nothing came out of it.
  5. Not putting more effort into buying Stagg's remnants.
  6. Wasting time of Vicky Vale. Who is mid AF
  7. Wasting Cassandra's actions on crap like trying to break into Azarath with no magic expert to help or socializing her with kids
  8. Getting involved with Tobias Whale and getting blackmailed over it.
  9. Recruiting Marie. Apparently when she was recruited she had 12 Diplomacy and 12 Intrigue and absolute crap coop scores.
  10. Not getting the zeta beam during turn 10 when it was first offered
  11. Recruiting Noi Komarov, who turned out to be a Russian spy. It was literally brought up as a strong possibility in the discussion but people still ended up voting for him
  12. Recruitting Jarret Parker. He was the worst option available on that subvote. If we grabbed David Willard then we'd have had access to brain transplants by now, and wouldn't have needed to recruit Dr. Moon either. Even at the time, he would've helped with keeping Ivo alive and help Marie.
  13. Having Edward Nygma fumble the bag with Kryptonite Man
  14. Recruiting Robert Frost.
  15. Not following up on the data from Red Tornado
  16. Getting involved with Circe and Faust
  17. Giving Waller Killgrave.
  18. Blowing up the negotiations with Atlantis
  19. Not trying to bend Ace more into Lex's whim
  20. Getting involved with Volcana and Vertigo
  21. Not teaching Jinx more as she was growing up
  22. Not putting more effort into teaching Lex magic. Like, you guys didn't even double down on it.
  23. Not negotiating more strongly too often. A lot of negotiations went through very poorly.
  24. Letting Ra's throw that new god tech into the ocean and not following up on it
  25. In that big-ass recruitment turn... I wouldn't have recruited Enoch Brown or Catherine. I'd have gone with Helen Angelico/Helga Jace and Achilies Milo and Shiro Ito. I like Arthur VIllain though. I'm also fine with the superhero choices on account of none of them being really amazing.

This is it for now. There's a lot more but it would require to get into the minutia of subvotes.
 
a lot of time passed since this quest started and lots of people came and went and theres a lot of retrospective. my question is if looking back at things you guys would've taken different deciscions knowing what you know and how things panned out and if so what
Everything comes down to our priorities and what compromises we can make, though if I could have shifted some decisions:

1. Wouldn't have spent so many actions putting the Rogues on repairing the city since they're not even getting traits or stat boosts
2. Could have pushed for more actions improving techs like airplanes and exosuits (Still want to research and make a helicarrier)
3. We should have abused the heck out of magic to get options like infinite space/resources regardless of what DOMA wanted since they collapsed anyway, and the remnant organizations were infiltrated
4. Could have found Barbara's identity as Batgirl and just offered to secretly sponsor her heroics
5. Would have pushed to assassinate Garrison Slate earlier (I am sure he's doing some shady stuff involving Intergang)
6. Would have pushed to get involved in Project Atomic Skull sooner to find a way to create powered individuals to compete with Superman
7. Push Lex to learn magic sooner
8. Make more gadgets for hero units for stat boosts to use on actions
9. Could have searched Gotham for Killer Moth early and sponsored him as a distraction against Batman


I'm still happy with where we are in the quest, my current priority is pushing to have the infrastructure to recruit some more hero units once the Big Bang happens in Dakota City.
 
So this is a light little status update. Things are looking kind of rough this week. If the update comes out it'll be over the weekend but that's not looking like the most likely thing in the world.

I also wanted to give some of my thoughts on the balance changes to expect for next turn. I've already stated that I don't like how things are balanced currently and that I want to tweak things to be a little less safe and to encourage more "risk taking" action choices. Broadly speaking what I'm thinking of doing is the following.

I'm thinking of implementing a counter where if you take over 25% of your actions as DC 0 actions it'll contribute to your nemesis gauge, I'll be raising the DC and readjusting the rewards of a few key actions (most notably specialized labs), and I'll be capping failure on a number of high DC actions in order to tilt them to be both a bit safer (though not perfectly safe) and to incentivize people to engage a little more in allowing some element of risk into strategies.

This isn't set in stone and it could all change as I continue to review stuff, but this feels to me like a fair and solid way to tweak things back to where I want them to be. I won't be doing sweeping DC changes as I initially considered, as I think this is a healthier way to rebalance things. That being said if someone has issues with these proposed changes, feel free to air them out. I can't promise that I'll incorporate all the feedback I get, but I will at least listen and consider it.
 
While I'm not as hard on Eve as other are, I think her powers can be extremely useful in the right situation, she's our kind of morally flexible and she has a way for us to secure her loyalty, I'd probably swap her out for, say, Looker.
Agreed. It's not that she isn't a good character or an interesting one, I can even say she's a character I can sympathize with, but maliciousness towards certain employees is worrying and I don't want to imagine the dc on a successful therapy session.
I'm still happy with where we are in the quest, my current priority is pushing to have the infrastructure to recruit some more hero units once the Big Bang happens in Dakota City.
With bastion we can incorporate BBs into a team without needing them working directly in Lexcorp, which is an excellent compromise.
This isn't set in stone and it could all change as I continue to review stuff, but this feels to me like a fair and solid way to tweak things back to where I want them to be.
I agree. This is definitely a more tenable option and the failure cap makes sense with the risk analysis firms we hired earlier in the quest. I appreciate the thought your putting on this.
 
I'm kind of surprised by some of the decisions people regret.

That said, I agree that giving up Killgrave to Waller was probably a mistake, and that we definitely botched the conference with Atlantis due to setting the wrong tone in our interactions with them.

Kind of surprised by how many people really wanted Barbara Gordon that much to be honest. She's nice, but not exactly earth-shaking.

In all honesty, in contrast to some voters I sincerely regret killing Ivo. His obsession with AMAZO was limiting and he had horrible coops, but he also had 33 Learning and a reverse engineering trait. Compared to him most of our current research roster is mid-tier at best, and while his AMAZO obsession was annoying it also kept us plugging away at robotics discoveries and making progress with them as opposed to our current scattershot approach to research. If he was still alive post-Brainiac we would have had a very easy time reverse engineering things.

I have no issues with the upcoming change to playstyle, and kinda look forward to taking a few more calculated risks.
 
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In all honesty, in contrast to some voters I sincerely regret killing Ivo. His obsession with AMAZO was limiting and he had horrible coops, but he also had 33 Learning and a reverse engineering trait. Compared to him most of our current research roster is mid-tier at best, and while his AMAZO obsession was annoying it also kept us plugging away at robotics discoveries and making progress with them as opposed to our current scattershot approach to research. If he was still alive post-Brainiac we would have had a very easy time reverse engineering things.

I think that you're forgetting how awful he was to deal with. He only kept making those robotics discoveries when succeeding his AMAZO actions which got to the point of being unfeasible.

What annoys me is that the thread had the option to recruit David Willard and explore the brain transplant option, but instead went with Jarret Parker who is useless.

If people really, really wanted it, then Ivo could've not only survived but made less pushy about AMAZO due to not being in as much of a hurry. People just didn't want that.

While I'm not as hard on Eve as other are, I think her powers can be extremely useful in the right situation, she's our kind of morally flexible and she has a way for us to secure her loyalty, I'd probably swap her out for, say, Looker.

Looker didn't want to become a superhero though. If she did, she'd be vastly overpowered from what a google search tells me but I guess that was king crimson's way of doing things.

I'd have probably recruited Red Torpedo for that Red Tornado/Red Volcano/T.O.Morrow connection.

Precisely. Not tim drake though. He'd be a menace as arguably the most deductive of the robins.

Having the Luthor family be a recreation of a the bat family but evil is super lame IMO and I wouldn't want to do it.
 
Having the Luthor family be a recreation of a the bat family but evil is super lame IMO and I wouldn't want to do it.
It would never be a recreation of the bat family. No Luthor has nearly the amount of trust issues or double life dynamics of the bat family, and I wouldn't be pushing for Lex to adopt either of the other two in the first place. Barbara would be more of a pupil to Lex and Jason might have been either Pam and Kate's kid or possibly trained up to head the DIR someday.
 
Recruiting Professor Ivo was a mistake. His poor personality and obsession with his project caused more problems than he was worth. A lot of effort went into keeping him alive (like guarding his hospital after a stroke) and cleaning up his messes (handling interviews with Lois, detecting and removing radiation after he blew himself up). While he made significant discoveries, he was outshined by some of the other options. In hindsight, I would have recruited Toyman, Achilles Milo , Ray Palmer, or Ted Kord.any of whom would have been better choices.
I feel like that may be a tad harsh, while Ivo came with his fair share of problems and there may have been better choices I feel like most of our issues came from us not properly handling the situation than from Ivo himself.
Recruiting Noi Komarov, who turned out to be a Russian spy. It was literally brought up as a strong possibility in the discussion but people still ended up voting for him
To be completely fair he was arguably the best of a bad crop, the only option there I would probably have taken in his place is Bette Sans Souci but the others were either extremely unimpressive or even more suspicious. Iirc a big part of the reason we went with Komarov is because we knew he was a Russian spy as opposed to the other top contenders and could theoretically try to use him to our advantage.

That being said I do somewhat regret that we fumbled that opportunity, though I do find it morbidly amusing that there's now a Russian spy and prospective member of the Rocket Red Brigade out there somewhere who is completely terrified of us.
Recruiting Robert Frost.
Really? I mean sure he's not amazing but he's still one of our best Stewardship hero units.

Though looking back that was a stacked recruitment pool and at least Paul Westfield or Curtis Metcalf may have been better choices in retrospect.
not turning Cailtin into metahuman and tanking most of her coops.
Eh, iirc Caitlin's coop scores were never that great to begin with and IMO the downsides were well worth the benefits.

Even ignoring the advantages of having a very powerful metahuman working for us should we ever need it her becoming a metahuman also improved some of her coop scores, gave her the trait that makes her an incredibly useful Learning hero unit on her own, gave us an opportunity to secure her loyalty and most importantly drove the initial wedge between her and Louise that we used to tie Caitlin more closely to us and max out her coop score with Pamela.
Could have found Barbara's identity as Batgirl and just offered to secretly sponsor her heroics
To be fair we could still do that, we have the action and a team that could easily accomplish it.
Would have pushed to assassinate Garrison Slate earlier (I am sure he's doing some shady stuff involving Intergang)
I agree with the first part but I highly doubt that Slate is involved with Intergang.

Slate has pretty much always been depicted as a fundamentally good person whose main goal with S.T.A.R Labs has been to have a pen advanced scientific institute free of political agendas or corporate mandates. Selling his soul to the well known terrorists Intergang wouldn't be his style.
So this is a light little status update. Things are looking kind of rough this week. If the update comes out it'll be over the weekend but that's not looking like the most likely thing in the world.

I also wanted to give some of my thoughts on the balance changes to expect for next turn. I've already stated that I don't like how things are balanced currently and that I want to tweak things to be a little less safe and to encourage more "risk taking" action choices. Broadly speaking what I'm thinking of doing is the following.

I'm thinking of implementing a counter where if you take over 25% of your actions as DC 0 actions it'll contribute to your nemesis gauge, I'll be raising the DC and readjusting the rewards of a few key actions (most notably specialized labs), and I'll be capping failure on a number of high DC actions in order to tilt them to be both a bit safer (though not perfectly safe) and to incentivize people to engage a little more in allowing some element of risk into strategies.

This isn't set in stone and it could all change as I continue to review stuff, but this feels to me like a fair and solid way to tweak things back to where I want them to be. I won't be doing sweeping DC changes as I initially considered, as I think this is a healthier way to rebalance things. That being said if someone has issues with these proposed changes, feel free to air them out. I can't promise that I'll incorporate all the feedback I get, but I will at least listen and consider it.
As always I'm hesitant whenever these sort of changes are made, especially messing around with the labs, but I trust you to have put some serious thought into it so we'll see how it goes.
Agreed. It's not that she isn't a good character or an interesting one, I can even say she's a character I can sympathize with, but maliciousness towards certain employees is worrying and I don't want to imagine the dc on a successful therapy session.
That's fair, my hope is that if we can have Raven help against Incubus it may soother things between her and Eve some though it probably won't be easy.

I'm kinda hoping that we can put Raven, Rebecca and maybe Mina on "learn about demons" next turn to allow us to grab as much information as we can on Trigon and Incubus and hopefully her helping out with that will a,ke Eve like her a bit more?
I'm still happy with where we are in the quest, my current priority is pushing to have the infrastructure to recruit some more hero units once the Big Bang happens in Dakota City.
With bastion we can incorporate BBs into a team without needing them working directly in Lexcorp, which is an excellent compromise.
There are quite a few Bang Babies that I'd like to have at least some connection to without outright recruiting, for example Permafrost makes a very good sympathetic charity case and Caitlin would appreciate us helping her out and Rubberband Man would be interesting at least to have as a musician, but only a few I'd really like to have as hero units.

Those ones would be:

Ragtag - His personality leaves some to be desired but the ability to give people temporary superpowers makes him a significant force multiplier.

Nina Crocker - I'm never gonna say no to time travel.

Dwayne McCall - Basically the same powers as Funnyface but more easily manipulated into being a pawn for Cassandra.

Richie Foley - Another super genius is never a bad thing, he and Lex can form a "Held hostage/possessed by Brainiac" club.

There's also Madelyn Spaulding who I'd take if we haven't recruited a psychic already by then.
I think that you're forgetting how awful he was to deal with. He only kept making those robotics discoveries when succeeding his AMAZO actions which got to the point of being unfeasible.
Again I hold that more a failing of us not making use of the available systems than of Ivo himself.

If we'd made use of the labs and double downs Ivo's desire to keep working on Amazo wouldn't have been that much more of a pain than the sisters wanting to work on pharmaceuticals or Karl wanting to work in the bone formula.
Looker didn't want to become a superhero though. If she did, she'd be vastly overpowered from what a google search tells me but I guess that was king crimson's way of doing things.
True but we probably could have worked around that.
 
Nina Crocker - I'm never gonna say no to time travel.
Friendly reminder that time travel in quest doesn't quite work how it did in the DCAU (time travel is always a closed loop and you can't actually retgone/retcon anything by using time travel).

Time travel's still incredibly useful, just don't expect to be able to kill Lois Lane as a baby.

Edit: To potentially clarify, under the rules of time travel in quest, you could do something like travel back in time to place "Manchurian candidate programming" in say Lois Lane so that when she hears the phrase "the earth king invites you to lake laogai" she enters a hyper suggestible state. You could replace baby Lois with a clone Lois that's seemingly indistinguishable. You cannot outright kill Lois in the past to prevent her interference/involvement in previous turns.

Edit #2: This also means that it can't be done to you. Even if say Rip Hunter decides Lex Luthor needs to die, he cannot time travel to before the current turn and successfully kill you (he can attempt and fail and not be noticed).
Richie Foley - Another super genius is never a bad thing, he and Lex can form a "Held hostage/possessed by Brainiac" club.
Technically in quest, they can't as neither has been held hostage/possessed by Brainiac.
 
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I'd have probably recruited Red Torpedo for that Red Tornado/Red Volcano/T.O.Morrow connection.


Having the Luthor family be a recreation of a the bat family but evil is super lame IMO and I wouldn't want to do it.

Red Inferno. We got clues to Red Inferno whom we really need to talk to in order to recruit. Proper flow should be Inferno > Torpedo > Tornado.

Of course the slight problem after recruitment is assuaging Eiling afterwards l since T.O. Morrow betrayed the US to work for the USSR to create them.

The LexCorp Family is more Corporate Evil. The entire point is to be doing legal or Black Government projects to be immune from prosecution.
 
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