Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Hey everyone - new here (transfer from RR). Is there a place (wiki perhaps?) where I can read some basic info on the players and the lore? I'm trying to understand better the differences between the Weilu, Xi, and Hui for example. Thanks in advance! And sorry if this isn't the place to ask these type of questions.
If you don't mind the spoilers, there's a wiki (narrative-oriented) here. If you're more interested in the mechanics, go to the first page and scroll down to see the character sheeet and all the other mecanical stuff. If you have more questions (you probably will), come say hi on the discord, it's linked in yrsillar"s signature at the bottom of his posts.
 
Musings on Twilight:
Yrsillar said:
He (Ao Longshen) already had strong ideas about Great Men and how he was the pinnacle of such
he refined that when the small minded idiots rejected him in favor of his weak brother, since this showed that obviously even the wisest minds in the empire could not be trusted to make correct decisions
then the eclipse started whispering to him about the fundamental error of disparity and free will and individuality and things got wacky
Yrsillar said:
All contempary documentation shows Longshen as an arrogant, high handed man with a terrible temper and no patience for being defied though. Nobody at court liked him no matter how talented and powerful he showed himself to be.
My basic idea for him was that guy. You know that guy, the one stemlord butthead who thinks his supreme mastery of his fields means he is also a mastery of yours hers and theirs and everyone elses, and thinks he has all the solutions.
Yrsillar said:
He did actually have to 'kill' you that is he had to overwhelm your dantian(s) and hmmm scrub your will from them
it was essentially an absurdly difficult bit of soul surgery performed en masse and mid battle
the exact mechanism I'm not gonna share, but its not something anyone else has even gotten close to reproducing
Yrsillar said:
He did yes (try to possess mountains). This proved more difficult for him, he managed it with the rivers, but he could never gather enough power or get it quite right to fully take over something connected to the earth like that though he could temporarily bring smaller earth spirits in
its theorized that the overall continental spirit and the solid nature of earth qi left the smaller spirits insulated more than the rivers which were more fluid and disconnected
he never managed to parasitize the ocean either after all
Yrsillar said:
He'd (Huisheng) certainly have something to say about it, but I can't answer too much without main story spoilers.
The Pure One would get... interesting. Because he would get subsumed, but the Twilight King might very well break from assimilating him, at least in the form he currently existed in.
However, it wouldn;t be a sure thing, he might very well manage to reconcile the Pure ones Transcendance with his own conception of perfect one-ness.
Yrsillar said:
The most horrifying marriage possible (if he'd reached the Red Jungle)
more seriously she would have fought him tooth and nail because he ultimately represents an eternal deathless stasis, dry of any blood
She might have even killed him if he was like... forced to start there, but she probably loses if he gets to eat some thousand princes first to get a foundation going.
Yrsillar said:
By the time he was the Twilight King he was utterly sure he was beyond any defeat and that the crude, slow mechanisms of this fallen and broken world would succumb to him. The Eclispse had spoken to him the primordial secrets, the ordering and limits of sucvh things after all. As Ao Longshen he did not intend to do anything but take his rightful throne.
I mean, if he had successfully eaten the Purifying Sun, the Eclipse that occurred after would have.... lasted a lot longer lets say
so maybe not straight up lied too so much as misled.
Yrsillar said:
They retained all of their memories and skills, but filtered through Ao Longshen's personality. Since he was the only conscious being in the mix. They were all essentially cells of a single body as far as communication went, yes
There was only Longshen, and the many many tools and bodily expansions he acquired
Yrsillar said:
Yeah, as a single man before the zomboswarm revved up he was a grandmaster of spiritual surgery
so his fighting style was relentlessly altering and upgrading his own soul to better counter yours while slipping incisions and cuts through infected with bits of himself or just generally dissecting people with a glance
Yrsillar said:
He'd have a hard time getting started in the west honestly. The Jungle is... fairly well suited to countering totality and the Bai of the period were just as hyper authoritarian as they are now but way more alert and micromanagey than the modern Bai so they probably sniff him out before he really gets going
He'd prolly make a pretty nasty mess if he started eating cloud tribes first and used them to spread like a airborne virus though
 
Year 46 Month 1 Arc 6-3 New
This was where where Want brushed against Isolation, Ling Qi thought idly. She squeezed down on Sixiangs hand thoughtfully, running her thumb in a circle along the back of the muse's hand. It felt real and insubstantial at the same time; it was too light for all that it was warm.

More or less, ya think? Their voice imprinted on her thoughts, not bothering with spoken words.

Both. She thought. Too much or too little were both equally poisonous.

She reached for a phantom with her spirit and held it captive. She couldn't help but think of the times when she had seen a spider, mundane or Suyin's, winding up its meals in silk as she felt it struggle to break free from her grip.

Was this really right? Scraps and fragments they might be, but they still felt alive, especially at the higher spiritual frequencies.

…She had to develop her technique, which required practice.

"The first vulnerability in this desire is its lack," Ling Qi said quietly. "Steal a person's hunger, remove a person's fear… they'll be discomfited maybe, but would they even notice in the heat of battle?"

Shu Yue gave no response, merely letting her verbalize her thoughts.

"Steal a person's desire for love, acclaim, community… and would they even remember why they should be fighting?" Ling Qi mused.

I can think of a few reasons, but they are usually still tied to those.

She nodded faintly. Anger and hatred were both strong motivators, as was the first fear, the simple drive for survival… If she could take that from them, there would be no fight to begin with.

And even if it can't be stolen whole, steal away the desire for support between comrades, corrode the desire to bring pride to their clan or nation, how much of an army formation collapses as the first form of desire reasserts itself?

Ling Qi turned over the phantom in her grasp, examining the currents and veins of Want that ran through it, binding it together. She heard the distant weeping of a woman, driven to the point of breaking her body with labor to provide just one more day of shelter for her children.

Just one diverted trail, one pluck of virulent darkness, and despair overcomes determination, the memory embodied in the phantom ending long before she sold herself into indenture. The phantom crumbled. She felt the cold churning in her gut worsen.

"It is the most straightforward path, but not easily accomplished. To sever, to steal these things… against a peer or any cultivator who has even the foundations of a Name, it will be a difficult task, until and unless you are already well under their defense," Shu Yue said. "The second method, then."

She could see that. Excising things… the mind resisted that far more. Dampening was a little easier, but it was still more noticeable.

Amplification, then, as you did with the hunger.

She nodded, and another phantom fell into her grasp. It writhed around, nearly breaking free. A man who was brought in, the leader of a small cell of criminals stealing and selling from the Hui-run food warehouses and granaries, storing Xiangmen's bounty for export.

The spirit lingered here from its last memories: interrogation… It was not a kind interrogation, and this far in the roadways, for such a minor crime. There were only mundane methods.

She understood well that the keepers of the law were rarely the friends of those who lived at the bottom. He'd broken at the end, sold out his fellows. He'd been released for his troubles and died months later from infections due to the damage taken in interrogation.

This was a spirit of torment, reliving those last days again and again in aching clarity.

…Darkness flowed, pulsed, fortified, black veins running through spiritual matter realigning. Magnify desire, magnify want to community, to comrade.

The memory changed; he died spitting in the interrogator's face, satisfaction in his heart. The spirit crumbled.

It didn't churn her stomach as severely as the last one, but it was still bittersweet. She couldn't help but feel…

"Inspiring a suicidal stand is useful if the target is your mission goal, but less so otherwise," Shu Yue's voice spoke gently. "It was not the best practice piece to choose."

I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking this. I'd dislike it a lot more if you were fine with it.

Ling Qi let out a low, even breath, recentering herself in the web of churning, lingering phantoms

"Transforming love into possessive paranoia, manipulating a web of bonds to create envy between its anchor points, and disrupt cohesion, to inflate or deflate the importance of different communal loyalties to cause friction within larger circles. All of these are within the sphere of this kind of desire," Shu Yue

"...Many ways to manipulate the connections within a group to weaken and disrupt, but this is all most useful before an actual fight starts," Ling Qi said quietly.

She could see, painfully, how effective arts like these might be. So much of her own Way and Domain was tied to benefits for those she loved and harm for those she hated.

…She supposed the easiest one to affect with this art would be herself. She knew her own defenses best of all. It wasn't even truly that far from traditional cultivation… more direct if anything. And once you had come to the notion of… cultivating people this way, was it truly unthinkable to use it to…

Would she ever be tempted to 'snip' something if she felt it was causing Biyu trouble in her cultivation, holding her back from ascending in the Way?

She wouldn't. She absolutely would not, but someone who had not bound the axiom of Choice into their soul… she could see how they would.

"You grasp the thrust of these arts well. These soften and sabotage, rather than striking decisive blows." Shu Yue agreed.

A sidearm, or well, a knife you stick in when you're already in their head.

She made a face; she thought, thank you so much for that image, Sixiang.

Even if it was accurate.

"What you're teaching me wasn't meant as a weapon at all, any more than a rake or a set of shears is," Ling Qi said quietly. "That's the trick in this lesson."

"I would not call it a trick. A machete is made to chop brush and bamboo, and a saber is meant to chop men; there was a point where the tool developed into a weapon," Shu Yue replied. "I am guiding you to do so. I also understand the discomfort in this realization. I thought it better you come upon it yourself."

"But, there is another layer of Desire, perhaps the one most would think of first when mediating upon Want," Shu Yue's voice resumed, cutting short her thoughts. "That texts speak on forfeiting first before they begin to carefully approach discarding or reducing the two you have brought up first."

"Possession. The desire for things. For wealth, for fulfillment, for comfort." Ling Qi said. "Or… no, it's not only tied to physical things. Authority, control… security."

It's hard to tell apart from the last category in that way, but I think you gotta make a distinction. There's things that people understand as coming from other people, and here… things that people understand as being theirs."

Entitlement. 'Deserve'. Shu Yue's discussion with her on Yan Renshu's mindset drifted to the fore. Everything he had was deserved; what others had was illegitimate, by whatever excuse.

"...I'm not sure how to weaponize this… I can turn it over in my mind. I think… this kind of desire is something more complex and finicky. It's what drives when one's basic needs are fulfilled. It is still not an evil thing to me… even if I can see how the excess can cause so much harm.

How many phantoms writhed here, at this still higher layer of the dream she adjusted to? Individual forms were now more apparent, the shades of ministry workers and supplicants, of guard officers, magistrates, and notaries.

What was wrong with insisting that their fingers be greased a little to make the gears of the ministry turn a little quicker? What was a 'forgotten' petition that allowed them to go home to their wife an hour sooner? What was a case decided against all evidence when doing otherwise would ruin the chance for promotion? What was a few dead beggars when it meant the street under their authority could be declared free of vagrants? What was a condemnation of a man for fraud when it meant their friend could gain a new business? What was a few alterations to records to show that the homes in the way of the new construction on the roots outside were fraudulently owned? What was the suffering of a few hundred mortals to better refine an art that would change countless lives? What was the nightmares of a city compared to the ascension of a god? What was? What was What was…

Ling Qi spat a gobbet of blood from her mouth and shuddered, pressing her palms to her currently sightless eyes. She closed her mind like a woman violently slamming the shutters against a storm outside. The desires before were simple things, straightforward things, bits of memories, and self-narrative; each of these numerous phantoms scoured the inside of her skull with a lifetime of context.

"These phantoms are, by necessity, more complex things," Shu Yue said, though she felt something off, an odd twinge to their voice. She could have imagined it, something brought on as she purged the foreign whispers from her mind.

"...This is part of what the Duchess strips away, isn't it," Ling Qi croaked. "The comforting lies, the distance from indirect consequences. That… it burns away the webs we weave ourselves, telling us fulfilling our greed hurts no one who matters and makes all sins clear and stark. This is the layer where her light burns most stark."

"Not the point of the lesson, but correct," Shu Yue said. "That is why her final question was 'What do you most regret?'. What was felt after the full weight of all they had done through every choice was confronted in its fullness, with all rationalization stripped away, was the most telling test of character."

She remembered what the woman who ran the Gold Autumn school had said describing The Duchess' purge of the Ministries; the answer from the head of her ministry office had been many years ago. 'Angering you, your Grace.' He'd been executed by Cai Shenhua, immediately after, annihilated in radiance.

"Now, ending the aside, the question is, how do you make of this a battlefield weapon?"

Ling Qi frowned, letting her vision return, and looked down at her hands. Her eyes flicked up. Sixiang was kneeling in front of her now, looking up at her with concern.

[ ] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.
[ ] I would wield it to encourage glory-seeking, to make them willing to sacrifice what they should not for their dreams.
 
[ ] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.

That seems the right way to go just from my initial gut feeling. It leans hardest into base human psychology, in a way that translates up even to more advanced Cultivators--nobody wants to lose what they have, and stirring that instinct up should have consistent returns.
 
I think forcing the expenditure is the better option. Ling Qi is a master of attrition and holding the line, making your enemy expend themselves upon your walls rather than siege you is her very realm of speciality.

So I would say,

[ ] I would wield it to encourage glory-seeking, to make them willing to sacrifice what they should not for their dreams.
 
Mmm, on one hand yes, encouraging people to make rash decisions and overextend can be tactically very useful. At the same time, however, battles tend to be won or lost based on morale, and pushing people to be more invested in winning and more willing to sacrifice feels like it could be counterproductive.

I think we also need to consider how it ties into LQ's and Renxiang's general stance and interests. We're not warlords and generally see war as wasteful, preferring diplomatic solutions. Encouraging people to be less willing to waste lives could be beneficial there. Otoh, pushing them to be more loss averse could also have consequences in negotiations, where sometimes people need to make concessions...

I'm inclined towards (1) overall I think but it is a complicated question.
 
I feel that

[ ] I would wield it to encourage glory-seeking, to make them willing to sacrifice what they should not for their dreams.

Will lead to more interesting scenes, while having easier time to spectacularly backfire... It is the less cautious choice for sure...
 
Ling Qi in combat is all about slowly draining the opponent until she hits her big finisher
Having someone hole up and wait to get Snowblossom Shattered sounds like a better plan to me than having them over extend and risk fucking up our set up.

[ ] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.
 
I think forcing the expenditure is the better option. Ling Qi is a master of attrition and holding the line, making your enemy expend themselves upon your walls rather than siege you is her very realm of speciality.
On the other hand, encouraging them to get into an attrition war with her by making them not use their most powerful abilities, also works. Both ways play into a attrition type battle, it's just at different speeds and methods. The glory seeking may cause them to use everything and overwhelm Ling Qi, but it might exhaust them quicker than the alternative and it can make them less likely to retreat and be more reckless. The miserly way would make them slow down, might make them fear loss which could lead to retreat, but it also could lead them to digging their heels in and still make it an attrition war.

Both ways can be spun as attritional warfare, it just depends on how it would be used and on who. If they are cautious, the glory seeking would most likely be better. On the other other hand, the miserly way could make the cautious even more so.

I really don't know which is better from an mechanical standpoint. You should just choose the one that speaks to you or the one you want Ling Qi to use as an weapon.
 
I think forcing the expenditure is the better option. Ling Qi is a master of attrition and holding the line, making your enemy expend themselves upon your walls rather than siege you is her very realm of speciality.

So I would say,

[ ] I would wield it to encourage glory-seeking, to make them willing to sacrifice what they should not for their dreams.
But in order to cause attrition Ling Qi requires time. Time which causing the enemy to horde buys her.
 
Looking at these choices in the short term, in regard to the upcoming campaign.
[ ] I would wield it to encourage glory-seeking, to make them willing to sacrifice what they should not for their dreams.
The most potent and dangerous weapon of our enemy beneath is their total disregard of the self and ready willingness to self-sacrifice.
Using this to accelerate it sounds dangerous and counterproductive.

[ ] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.
Ont he other hand, taking that option away from them. By reenforcing their desire to survive and life, might actually be effective in shutting down one of their key weapons.

So for now this probably:
[X] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.
 
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I feel like (1) is a better fit for Ling Qi's needs, so that's where I lean.

You can use (1) both in combat to encourage hesitation in her enemies, and against Ling Qi's attrition based style, hesitation is defeat. Outside of combat, fear of loss is a good way to discourage people from tearing down what our heroes are building. How often have we been in a non-combat scenario in which Ling Qi and co stood to benefit from people overextending?
 
There is quite a few different levels to this art vote.

From a pure battlefield perspective, I am inclined to #2. If we can get someone to chase us, we win. Having the opponent try aggressive gambits that we can endure or slip out from means we win. I personally think that there is a lot of value to our combat build in being able to induce aggressive behavior.

On the other hand what Shen Yue is true in reverse as well. Just as a cleaver was made into a Dao, so to can a Dao be made into a cleaver. Entrapping political opponents in a stasis of being unwilling to take risks means our allies are much freer to make moves. We actually don't want our political opponets to be taking aggressive moves. They have more political capital than us after all. They can tank a political gambit easier than we can.
 
#1 seems more designed for a fighter interested in attrition

#2 seems more designed for a fighter whose style is based on counter-attacking.

I think we're more of an attritional style of fighting than a counter-attacker so I lean towards #1

(I note though that in this chapter Ling thinks it's easier to amplify what's there than to dampen so this option could have less of an emotional effect on our adversaries)
 
[ ] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs

Leaning towards this one. Ling Qi thrives in battles of attrition, and much of our early efforts was in scrambling to find a way to defend against opponents going for a reckless all in. The last thing we want is to encourage that.

Secondly, I feel it feeds slightly better into our existing application of isolation, keeping comrades from coming to anothers aid at their own expense.
 
[ ] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.

Even if I can see its uses, I'm not really keen on making our enemies want to go all out in a reckless blaze of glory.
That sounds like it can backfire quite easily.

If we consider LQ's Domain and FFS, option 1 appeals more. Let them hunker down and avoid taking initiative as they get more and more lost in the mists and the snow keeps burying them.

We also have quite heavy hitting allies, so they can take the chance to charge a powerfull attack while the enemie is adverse to risk and take an action.
 
For the Shishigui, forcing them on the defense would be better. Their cultivation is self sacrifice in ways both big and small. The first option would make them think otherwise.
For other enemies idk.
 
[X] I would wield it to put them on the defense, to be miserly with their power and resources, and loathe to expend anything that is theirs.

LQ is an attrition fighter and encourages all her allies to remain alive. Let's continue our trajectory.
 
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[] I would wield it to encourage glory-seeking, to make them willing to sacrifice what they should not for their dreams.

I like 2 better because of how it compare's to Gan Guangli's leadership style. He does encourage his men to fight better with his enthusiasm. This insight is similar in that it encourages people to fight to the bitter end. By picking this, we can compare insights with Gan Guangli to find the line between courage and foolishness. I think the difference between the 2 techniques is discipline and intent. Gan wants his men to fight better and encourages them to do so, while Ling Qi's technique is about encouraging people into making mistakes. I would like to see a future update where they talk about their contrasting methods.

The other technique is also interesting, but it seems like we already do it a bit. A lot of people from the sect were terrified to fight Ling Qi and adding this technique to the list would make people even more terrified. It is on brand, but I think branching out is more valuable.
 
Ling Qi understands Want, the deep, possessive kind that is loath to loosen its grip on things it values. This understanding would naturally make it easier for her to fan similar tendencies in her enemies. I also like it as a nod to our old departed teacher and her nature.

Glory on the other hand has never been on her radar in the same way. Yes, she does magnificent stunts when needed but her plan usually was to lurk and slowly choke the fight out of people. Being flashy just for the sake of it is a luxury and further from her mental wheelhouse. She can't understand macho boy shenanigans on the same level.
 
"Now, ending the aside, the question is, how do you make of this a battlefield weapon?"
At the end of the day, this is still gonna be a battlefield weapon first.

I'm sort of leaning towards 1 because it lends well to the crafted story of LQ being a defense monster. We have dream dodge, speed dodge through wind, purge dodge for debuffs, and straight up face tank capabilities.

If we add an enemy debuff where they themselves slow down their roll, that's a certain kind of tanking as well. We'd be sealing their powers and resources, making them value it more than the worth of the battle, more than the ephemeral gain of battlefield advantage, more than the eternal "next time" that plagues us in regards to in-game consumables because we have that lingering thought whispering in our ear that "nah, we can take 'em without needing to spend this or that".

The second one might be good in that it'd give us the ability to leverage our other tanking capabilities (especially Zhengui's), but I just think it'd be less cool. Also we'd be party to encouraging whatever atrocity we accidentally encourage whenever someone does it "for the greater good".

Tactically 2 definitely has it's advantages. But vibes wise, 1 has the edge for me.
 
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