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Thing is 'presuaded to look away ' and various other technicalities isn't good enough. I want hard confirmation from the emperor and make it illegal to kill them. We have solid reasons for that pitch and can push the issue with the emperor and elector counts themselves.
The Colleges have a strong motivation not to be weakening the foundation of the Articles, that they and they alone are allowed to wield magic, because it also weakens the bit where they aren't getting burnt at the stake. Getting hedge magic in as a religious technicality - somehow, since it currently seems impossible -would avoid that problem.
 
I've seen a few people call being an Elector Countess a fun "arc", when that would almost certainly not just be just an arc. Thats something that would define the rest of the quest going forward. If people just want to establish control over the Forest of Shadows we don't need a (potential) noble title title to do that, we can just work with the established electors to do that. And then afterwards we wouldn't be locked into maintaining it for the rest of the quest. Using the boon to get some way of helping with the conquering itself would probably be a better idea if you want to do that.
Well, unless you do actually want to convert this from an advisor quest to a ck2 quest. just know what you're getting into.
 
EC is my first choice. That sounds like a fun arc full of action, diplomacy and favour-trading.
It's unlikely to be just an arc, it's more likely to be a long-term commitment. Furthermore, we would first have get a province to rule, which would be an arc on its own.

In other words, the EC vote will lock a bare minimum of 2 arcs down. I'm against limiting our options like that.
 
My biggest concern is that Nordland is about to start cracking down on the Hedgewise, because they're perceived to have sided with the Eonir and the Middenlanders due to their participation in the Waystone project. Especially because the successes of the waystone project are aligning the empire more against nordland in general, and they're losing a lot of "their" territory and industry.

Worst case, this becomes a political roadblock for the waystone project we'll have to resolve.
Yeah, that's the worst case scenario. Retaliation to a minority group that isn't very legally capable of protecting itself.

Well, if it's that or more of a 'help us or else' kinda situation, we do have a Great Deed sitting in our pocket to make such a situation a bit more stable. We could also direcly spy on Nordland's government and see if we can scrounge up some blackmail.
 
I've seen a few people call being an Elector Countess a fun "arc", when that would almost certainly not just be just an arc. Thats something that would define the rest of the quest going forward. If people just want to establish control over the Forest of Shadows we don't need a (potential) noble title title to do that, we can just work with the established electors to do that. And then afterwards we wouldn't be locked into maintaining it for the rest of the quest. Using the boon to get some way of helping with the conquering itself would probably be a better idea if you want to do that.
Well, unless you do actually want to convert this from an advisor quest to a ck2 quest. just know what you're getting into.

Well, there is still the possibility of naming an heir and retiring (either officialy or not) once things are settled down.

Things would also get pretty interesting when it comes to choosing the next emperor. We could even end up in contention, who knows.
 
I've seen a few people call being an Elector Countess a fun "arc", when that would almost certainly not just be just an arc. Thats something that would define the rest of the quest going forward. If people just want to establish control over the Forest of Shadows we don't need a (potential) noble title title to do that, we can just work with the established electors to do that. And then afterwards we wouldn't be locked into maintaining it for the rest of the quest. Using the boon to get some way of helping with the conquering itself would probably be a better idea if you want to do that.
Well, unless you do actually want to convert this from an advisor quest to a ck2 quest. just know what you're getting into.
This simply isn't true. There is literally nothing stopping us from abdicating later.

People deciding they don't want to stop being Elector Countess is possible I suppose, but that'd be the playerbase making a decision, not us getting "locked into" things.
 
This simply isn't true. There is literally nothing stopping us from abdicating later.

People deciding they don't want to stop being Elector Countess is possible I suppose, but that'd be the playerbase making a decision, not us getting "locked into" things.
It still locks us into at least two arcs which we only had 3 real arcs in this quest total. And convincing people we have "done enough" in the province we literally founded will be a right bastard.
 
[X] Armor of von Tarnus

[X] Break College Favor/ Tenure

[X] Support in dispatching Battle Wizards to one major conflict of Mathilde's choice

[X] Elector-Countess

[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer

[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
 
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Who even knows that the Hedgewise are helping the Waystone Project besides those people involved on the Imperial side? Akasel is one member out of ten, and is going as a priest of Haletha. Unless Nordland has spies in the Colleges, and even then would need them to be high up, I kind of doubt they know the Hedgefolk are involved with the Eonir.
 
The Colleges have a strong motivation not to be weakening the foundation of the Articles, that they and they alone are allowed to wield magic, because it also weakens the bit where they aren't getting burnt at the stake. Getting hedge magic in as a religious technicality - somehow, since it currently seems impossible -would avoid that problem.

The problem is that priests that can call down miracles also have Witchsight, and may be able to tell that Hedgecraft is witchcraft not divine magic just by looking at it.

Even the Hedgefolk don't claim their magic is divine intervention, as I understand it, just that it was a god (whose identify varies) who taught them their magic, just as Teclus taught the Colleges.
 
If we had the airship then it would have been possible to more thoroughly loot and get out of there before too many enemy forces could descend upon us. I can see a scenario where having the ship will be the only reason we can loot something before an enemy army reaches our location.

To be honest, limit on number of items were mostly game-orientated. There were ways to secure more things, but Boney shot it down, because point of limitation was to give us meaningful and hard choice.

If we talking about imagining, I can also imagine how even with airship we could be limited in our loot. It's just a nature of quest. It's boring to have perfect choice.
 
Even guns, initially, were superweapons only because it was much, much easier to train a large amount of people in their use. Bows were far, far superior than the early guns, but you could have a gun regiment faster and easier than you had a single bowman. That is how the initial sucky guns changed the face of wars, logistics, not by allowing armies to do something they couldn't.
Actually guns only replaced bows when their penetrative qualities outpaced armour, and their reloading times outpaced crossbows. You can, after all, train someone to use a crossbow in pretty much the same way early firearms were used.

It's also worth pointing out that firearms took the better part of two centuries to replace bows. It wasn't just that they showed up and instantly became better.

Yeah, that's the worst case scenario. Retaliation to a minority group that isn't very legally capable of protecting itself.

Well, if it's that or more of a 'help us or else' kinda situation, we do have a Great Deed sitting in our pocket to make such a situation a bit more stable. We could also direcly spy on Nordland's government and see if we can scrounge up some blackmail.
I'm unsure how helpful a Great Deed would be. Let's see, the Sigmarite votes would back Nordland, as woudl Nordland's own, Middenland and the Ar-Ulric would probably side against them, as might Luitpold and Roswita. That's a 4-4 split off the bat. Wissenland and Averland are Sigmarite heartlands, and likely to back the Cult, Mathilde's rep with the Moot might earn their vote. That leaves Ostland, Ostermark, Talabecland and Hochland, of whicb you'd need three votes. It's possible it would go favourbaly, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. Unless you were thinking of using the Deed in a different way?
 
The problem is that priests that can call down miracles also have Witchsight, and may be able to tell that Hedgecraft is witchcraft not divine magic just by looking at it.

Even the Hedgefolk don't claim their magic is divine intervention, as I understand it, just that it was a god (whose identify varies) who taught them their magic, just as Teclus taught the Colleges.

I mean can they? I don't remember any priests screaming that Damsels really witches, even in the time when arcane magic was strictly forbidden, no texts claiming so, no diplomatic incidents, so unless we are positing that every single spell-casting priest was a adept of Realpolitik over opposing witchcraft some of them at least must have been fooled.
 
It still locks us into at least two arcs which we only had 3 real arcs in this quest total. And convincing people we have "done enough" in the province we literally founded will be a right bastard.

You are too confident in your "at least 2 arc" assumption for someone, who isn't writer of this quest.

And we didn't have a problem with "haven't done enough" before. Why you assume we will have it going forward? I kinda like how we conclude our K8P arc. We just accept that situation developed, and new problems need different people. I can easily see how Countess arc could be resolved in similar way.

And we will be "lock" in some arc, sooner or later anyway. It's a quest. If we won't become Elector Countess, we will do some other thing. It's not like we gonna lay down and sleep for the rest of a quest. And at this point it's just subjective preference of players what they want to do.

Personally, I don't have a problem with CK2 elements. It would be an interesting development for this quest, and I suspect that even if this option wins, quest will not become pure CK2, but instead just add a CK2 elements for this arc.
 
I'm unsure how helpful a Great Deed would be. Let's see, the Sigmarite votes would back Nordland, as woudl Nordland's own, Middenland and the Ar-Ulric would probably side against them, as might Luitpold and Roswita. That's a 4-4 split off the bat. Wissenland and Averland are Sigmarite heartlands, and likely to back the Cult, Mathilde's rep with the Moot might earn their vote. That leaves Ostland, Ostermark, Talabecland and Hochland, of whicb you'd need three votes. It's possible it would go favourbaly, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. Unless you were thinking of using the Deed in a different way?
Regardless of whether it comes down to a vote or not, the argument we would likely be making is that the Cult of Haletha/Nordland Hedgewise are one of the best groups for protecting yourself from the Forest of Shadows, and that their knowledge and expertise will be crucial for helping take back the Forest of Shadows nexuses, which is in the interests of not just Ostland and Ostermark, but also Nordland itself.

And, to be used outside the Forest of Shadows, the Halethan tributary ritual we got requires a caster of the Was Jutonian bloodline. That's one of the best bets for making a bunch of provinces in the Empire more prosperous than they already are, something they would be very interested in doing. Roswita might make mention of how, yes, Stirland's crops are improving and there's less mutations going around. So other provinces might see it as being in their own interest for a very minor group like the Nordland Hedgewise to not be prosecuted.

This is not to say that Nordland couldn't just make the stupid decision of hurting themselves in the interests of letting out their frustrations on someone else, but there is a degree of practicality at work here that I think we can use as strong leverage.


...Hopefully this is just a bit panic-brained of us, honestly.

Nobody in the project should really know that Aksel is actually a Hedgewise - we've been under the impression that even Elrisse probably thinks Aksel is a way for us to launder Grey College secrets. Hopefully Nordland just independently decided to expand in the direction of the Forest of Shadows, and then decided "well I don't really care about the Hedgewise because fuck it, at least they're not elves".
 
It's an imperial decree that there shan't be no magical traditions aside from the colleges of magic, so if a elector legalizes the hedgewise as a magical tradition he is in effect telling the emperor and his authority to stuff it... Now the emperor could react calmly and with diplomacy to that... But lots of the other elector counts would see that as weakness, more likely is that he mobilizes the state troops, the colleges and the sitmarite church and declares nordland a rouge actor.
As far as I am aware, there is only one person who has the authority to declare a group of magic users legal is the Emperor, and that authority has only been invoked twice.
There is precedent, I think. Middenheim had the Alchemist's guild before Magnus passed the Articles of Magic. Marienburg is also rumored to have had Baron Hendryk's magic section before he passed the Articles. Admittingly, it is not very good precedent. I'm not saying that the Elector Count did it, just pondering what the feasibility of it is.

Also it's only disprovable if you get another hedgewise next to a halethan one and they both cast the same spell. That's already a difficult proposition.
Sure, if the Nordland Hedgewise would be putting in a lot of magical work to help pacify the forest or make communities surrounding it safer, it would easy for any Witch Hunters to confirm that they're involved, but the Hedgewise are very very far down the list of problems the Empire has and in the name of pacifying more of the Forest of Shadows, the Witch Hunters could absolutely be persuaded to look away.
Problem here is that it involves getting the Hedgewise out in the open. Them acting openly will get the attention of the Witch Hunters, who evidently have the ability to prove they are using magic and not religious practices. The Witch Hunters will then kill the Hedgewise. That means that the Colleges can't pretend to look away either. That changes though if the Elector Count says they're cool, because he has an army.

I haven't quite understood why the Nordlander Hedgewise can't just officially form a legal Cult of Halétha and codify many of their rites and traditions into religious practices dedicated to a legal goddess in good standing.
Because the Witch Hunters would say they are lying, and would lay out proof that they are lying, and then kill them.

I mean can they? I don't remember any priests screaming that Damsels really witches, even in the time when arcane magic was strictly forbidden, no texts claiming so, no diplomatic incidents, so unless we are positing that every single spell-casting priest was a adept of Realpolitik over opposing witchcraft some of them at least must have been fooled.
Nobody believes that the Damsel's magical powers are anything but witchcraft. It's a diplomatic fiction because if you don't play along you get war. It's pretty clearly a diplomatic fig leaf. That definitely doesn't currently apply to the Halethan hedgewise.

Damsels and Ice Witches are clergy, to the Lady and the Ancient Widow respectively, and they have the backing of large nations who absolutely would go to war over the matter. None of that would apply to magic-users of the Eonir.

Regardless of whether it comes down to a vote or not, the argument we would likely be making is that the Cult of Haletha/Nordland Hedgewise are one of the best groups for protecting yourself from the Forest of Shadows, and that their knowledge and expertise will be crucial for helping take back the Forest of Shadows nexuses, which is in the interests of not just Ostland and Ostermark, but also Nordland itself.
Are they though? They definitely can be helpful, but I think most of the established powers in the Empire would be more inclined to say that they can do it without them. Would mythology about the Drive to the Frontiers include the Hedgewise as contributing to it? Probably not. So the majority of Imperials would think it can be done without them, because as far as they're concerned it's been done before.

I think it's a lot more likely that Nordland decided to make a deal with the Halethan Hedgewise. But if that's not the case then you can practically guarantee there won't be any progress made on the Hedgewise's legal status.
 
Hey @picklepikkl, I've been looking for a Boneypost for a while and was hoping you could help me find it. It was about about what happened when the Colleges were under siege, what their defenses were like and how out of luck the witch hunters were? Maybe including something about how a province really liked the Jades and Ambers and sheltered them?
 
You are too confident in your "at least 2 arc" assumption for someone, who isn't writer of this quest.

And we didn't have a problem with "haven't done enough" before. Why you assume we will have it going forward? I kinda like how we conclude our K8P arc. We just accept that situation developed, and new problems need different people. I can easily see how Countess arc could be resolved in similar way.

And we will be "lock" in some arc, sooner or later anyway. It's a quest. If we won't become Elector Countess, we will do some other thing. It's not like we gonna lay down and sleep for the rest of a quest. And at this point it's just subjective preference of players what they want to do.

Personally, I don't have a problem with CK2 elements. It would be an interesting development for this quest, and I suspect that even if this option wins, quest will not become pure CK2, but instead just add a CK2 elements for this arc.
Nah, he's absolutely correct. It will be an arc at least to get the province (more likely, it'll be one if a smaller one to just do the prep, and then another to do the conquering), and people sure as hell won't bail directly after conquering the province, because that would be extremely stupid. So yes, it will at least take two arcs to resolve that. And if you just want to hand it off at the earliest opportunity, why conquer a province in the first place? Become Supreme Matriarch, that would make way more sense. Plenty of CK2 there, with built in way out, relates to cherished characters, get to be advisor again, all good stuff.

And like, the thread hasn't given up either EIC or KAU, I don't see people giving up on a personally conquered province so easily.
 
Hey @picklepikkl, I've been looking for a Boneypost for a while and was hoping you could help me find it. It was about about what happened when the Colleges were under siege, what their defenses were like and how out of luck the witch hunters were? Maybe including something about how a province really liked the Jades and Ambers and sheltered them?
You're thinking of this:
The Grey and Amethyst Colleges just look like abandoned buildings to uninvited guests. The Celestial and Light Colleges require a decent level of magical ability just to be able to see them. And the Amber College isn't in Altdorf, it's out in the Amber Hills. The only three accessible Colleges are the Jade, the Gold, and the Bright. The Jade College has forty-foot high walls, is full of plants willing and able to assist in its defence, and is fueled by the Altdorf Nexus. The Gold College is full of experts in creating things that explode and is nestled into an extremely defensible position flanked by the city walls and the river. The Bright College has walls and defensive enchantments but really the main thing about it is it's full of Bright Wizards.

Imagine trying to assault a hedge maze that hates you, or a crossfire of every substance on the continent that can be made to go boom, or the elemental plane of burning, while four whole Orders are able to sally forth at will from places you can't even see, and you're not allowed to damage the city because that's where Dieter is trying to get his hedonism on. Imagine doing so with zero material support from the local authorities because, again, Dieter. Imagine doing so knowing that the local Taalites and Rhyans like the Jades better than you, the local Verenans like the Celestials more than you, the local Shallyans like the Lights better than you, the nobles like the Golds and Celestials better than you, and the masses are much more scared of the Greys and Amethysts than they are of you.

The Wizards are backed into a corner, and it's a corner they've spent a century attuning to their Wind and filling with weapons and enchantments and secrets. They're fighting for survival. You're fighting for an Emperor that fled from Nuln and let it be destroyed by a Waaagh led by a Goblin. Your hands are tied in a dozen different ways, and the Wizards just had every restriction placed upon them repealed. There is no longer anything they can do that is more illegal than their existence already is. All those spells that come with dire warnings about frivolous use, all those summonings that resemble Daemonology to the untutored, all those rituals that call upon powers not invited to the Grand Conclave, all those artefacts too irreplaceable to risk under normal circumstances? They've just had all their reasons not to use them stripped away.

...oh dear, I've just received word there's a very dangerous witch that needs hunting in a place that is very not here. Well, I'll leave you chaps with it, I'm sure you have it under control, best of luck to you, let me know how it turns out...
It's a good bit, thanks for reminding me of it.
 
And like, the thread hasn't given up either EIC or KAU, I don't see people giving up on a personally conquered province so easily.
We're getting everything we want out of KAU, so it makes sense we've held onto it. The EIC... well, people have argued for passing active management off to the Hochlander before, while others have argued that the information network is going to start mattering soon for a while. I suspect that if it doesn't seem particularly applicable to whatever we decide to do next, a vote to drop it might pass shortly after the next arc starts.
 
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