Let's see if we can develop heavy slot torpedoes instead next turn. Short term we already have super lance escorts, long term we won't use sloop chassis. Having area denial ships would be great for our kiting strategy.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
We could always just refit the Cutter hulls into torpedo boats instead of more Nettles. Given our current doctrine favors long range fire and kiting the Spike Macro cannons don't fit that as well as more lance's.
It's not like a Sloop with a Heavy Thruster and a Suncannon would be bad at short range either, the Suncannon should be more potent than a Spike Cannon on an individual basis and the Heavy Thruster should be good for dealing critical damage thanks to their insane armor penetration and as the enemy gets closer it should be easier to target stuff like engines which are crucial in close range combat.
I did misremember the cost of Spike Cannons though, I thought they were 5NEP but they are actually 3NEP (probably just associated the fact that Needle Rifles cost the same as Sunblasters) so a Heavy Grav-Thruster Sloop would actually cost 2x more NEP (19NEP vs 9NEP) in terms of weapon costs and an overall ~41% increase in known costs (24NEP vs 34NEP).
Edit:
Cutter Torpedo boat example:
[] Rosaceae Class Torpedo Destroyer (4 System | 3 Weapon Batteries)
-[] 1x Suncannon (5NEP) 1 Weapon Slot
-[] 2x Heavy Torpedo Launchers (6NEP) 2 Weapon Slots
-[] 2x Aethersails 2x System Slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field 1 System Slot (3NEP)
-[] 1x Lascannon PD (12NEP) 1 System Slot (12NEP)
Total: 5+6+3+12=26NEP
Basically just swapped the 3 Spike cannons for 2 Heavy Torpedoes and 1 Suncannon (can swap the Suncannon out for a Spike). That should give us 6 torpedoes per volley.
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RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
Next turn we will probably have to skip Create Diplomatic Council but at least we should be able to get River and Lake, Pond and Pool done as well as some vault delving.
I quite like this design. Cheaper then a pure Suncannon ship while assisting our fleets massively. Plus, this makes a horrifically annoying raiding ship. It appears, shoots 50 torpedoes, harasses you with its exceedingly long range Plasma Cannons, and then fucks off.
- Pronouns
- Reader
What is most likely going to happen is we are going to iterate a sloop hull, and then design a torpedo sloop based on that. We got four choices for chassis iteration or design, four choices for burden of command, we probably get another 4 for hull militarization, and we might as well make a quick, cheap iteration of a sloop in that case to get what we need out of a sloop model.
Afterall, the whole point is for it to flit in and out of range while concealed and to drop a payload of melta torpedoes and punch well above it's weight. It doesn't need to do much else besides disappear, survive, reach it's target, and escape. Once it's torpedoes are spent, it can fall back and provide PD cover to carriers or battleships.
Ultimately I'm not particularly interested either way, not soon at least. Something for another day.
Afterall, the whole point is for it to flit in and out of range while concealed and to drop a payload of melta torpedoes and punch well above it's weight. It doesn't need to do much else besides disappear, survive, reach it's target, and escape. Once it's torpedoes are spent, it can fall back and provide PD cover to carriers or battleships.
Ultimately I'm not particularly interested either way, not soon at least. Something for another day.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Why skip Diplomatic Council?
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
I just think that the remaining diplomatic options we did not pick are more important then getting the Council up that turn. While I would prefer to do both we cannot conduct diplomacy the turn we create the Council.
Because we probably don't get any diplomacy done the turn we form the Diplomatic Council, and people want to grab the smalls into our coalition before someone else picks them up.
I personally don't think the risk of someone else claiming them or them suffering dooms is high; of the Majors, Ulthwe is busy, Saim-Hann is busy, Alaitoc is unlikely to take in Adaptationists, Biel-Tan is Biel-Tan, and Iyanden is weighed down by Biel-Tan. But waiting another turn is still another event roll that could come up as a crit-fail.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Considering how there's probably a bunch of new options, discounts and/or bonuses locked behind the diplomatic council just like all the other enhancement options like the shrine of Khaine I would say delaying the diplomatic council is a bad idea.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Atleast we'll be able to check the relic vaults and finally get food sorted next turn if we're not building the diplomatic council, so that's alright
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RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
On the topic of diplomacy, I would like to start preparing for the The Wyld Hunt with Saim-Hann. Our militia right now is a bit of a shit show so getting a Warhost with full VGA should be our top priority.
I recommend using next turn to make 1-2 VGA Foundries and at least 1 Sunblaster Caliver Factory up. The turn after that we can produce a Light Rending Blade Factory and a Splinter Carbine Factory for our melee troops. This and using a Forge of Vaul action rush them should get us the equipment necessary to have at least a decent force ready for the Wyld Hunt.
I recommend using next turn to make 1-2 VGA Foundries and at least 1 Sunblaster Caliver Factory up. The turn after that we can produce a Light Rending Blade Factory and a Splinter Carbine Factory for our melee troops. This and using a Forge of Vaul action rush them should get us the equipment necessary to have at least a decent force ready for the Wyld Hunt.
We will likly already have a bunch of new options due to moving everything to the Hall of Stewardship. Getting more options after immediately getting another load of options will result in a lot of stuff getting done anyways.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Yeah we should definitely start getting a VGW + Sunblaster foundry or two up by next turn (I'd even consider using the forge to make some extra VGA + Sunblasters in the meantime maybe? As long as nothing comes up and we stay the course of 'At least one Enhance Industry a turn' we should have a spare FOV action to throw at the problem?)
Either way, I'm currently agreeing with this plan, making friends with Saim-Hann is a good way to cut our teeth, field test our equipment and make sure we get someone who can come help us out if the Orks next door start being a problem.
But yeah, I'm up for saving Stel-Uit this turn as well, might as well get another... what, 500 million Eldar to come up north? (Since Stel-Uit has 50% extra population) while also looking for Nacretinel.
I'm imagining that our little coalition might just eventually lead to the north being the most densely populated section of the galaxy in terms of craftworlder population, probably unlikely since a lot of craftworlds camp around the eye of terror, but definitely a plausible possibility to consider.
(Imperial expedition fleets try and go north only to run into like, 20 craftworlds)
Find out what using the Forge on a Create Armor Foundry action does.
I'm definitely up for going on the Wyld Hunt, and with any luck we'll be able to train up a few officers in time to get them blooded.
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
It just speeds them up if im not incorrect. It takes a few turns to start production after creating a Foundry but a FoV action removes that.
I think I would propose this very, very silly option for a ship to use torpedoes.
[] VLS Class Torpedo sloop (4 System | 1 Weapon Battery | 1 Heavy Weapon Battery traded for 3 Weapon Batteries.)
-[] 4x Heavy Torpedo Launchers (12NEP) 4 Weapon Slots
-[] 2x Aethersails 2x System Slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field 1 System Slot (3NEP)
-[] 1x Lascannon PD (12NEP) 1 System Slot (12NEP)
That would be 27 NEP, plus Aethersail and other costs. And 12 torpedo tubes, with deep magazines, but nothing else.
[] VLS Class Torpedo sloop (4 System | 1 Weapon Battery | 1 Heavy Weapon Battery traded for 3 Weapon Batteries.)
-[] 4x Heavy Torpedo Launchers (12NEP) 4 Weapon Slots
-[] 2x Aethersails 2x System Slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field 1 System Slot (3NEP)
-[] 1x Lascannon PD (12NEP) 1 System Slot (12NEP)
That would be 27 NEP, plus Aethersail and other costs. And 12 torpedo tubes, with deep magazines, but nothing else.
Some Foundries take multiple turns, but from what Mechanis has posted, if they run out of turns to reduce the overflow isn't wasted - we get another Foundry, instead.
A reminder: Naval Heavy Weapon Slots mount three weapons, not three weapon batteries.
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it would be very silly, however, for a heavy torpedo slot in a heavy weapons slot to be *exactly the same* as a regular slot.
- Pronouns
- Reader
No one else is angling to absorb the smalls at this time. They have a lot else to worry about. Saim-han has the wild hunt to arrange. Ulthwe has it's new communication project that it barely has the resources to invest in. Alaitoc is dealing with the fallout of the curses 3 reveal, Beil-tan is hunting for Soul Stones and Iyanden is setting up a system to keep an eye on them.
Neither Kher'ys or Muirgaythh are going to end up with a patron immediately. Between Saim-Hann's lack of respect by most craft worlds, Beil-tan and by association Iyanden's tarnished reputations, Alaitoc's previous hostility, and Ulthwe's location and extended list of vulnerable allies to defend already the two adaptionist craftworlds are going to hesitate before reaching out. This state of taking stalk of their options and being safe from targeting by chaos the same way we are currently safe from chaos retaliation despite our recent actions, means we can put them off long enough to get sign of herald up.
Lal'c-Tann is even easier, since it's our secret origin option, rather than something just any craftworld can luck into.
The only one in any danger is Stel-Uit, because anyone with a functioning shipyard and provide them with what they need.
The sign of herald is not a small addition, just like the shrine of Khaine was no small addition. It's worth taking a turn to get once we have secured the only one we are in actual danger of missing out on. The benefits will be well worth it, if for no reason than it being likely we can bring some of our other allies in on diplomacy actions like this if we have the sign of herald.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Stick with the Plan
[X] Vehicle Aesthetics : Default
[X] Plan: The Craft of War
[X] Vehicle Aesthetics : Default
[X] Plan: The Craft of War
- Pronouns
- Reader
Should be 5×. Heavy naval weapon slots install naval grade weapons 3 times instead of two.
This isn't going to accomplish anything in a reasonable time since we need to send them ahead of it being started. We don't have time to get them built and let them accumulate. I'm not sure we can scrape together a handful of warhosts to impress in time to participate to be honest. Our one hope is the naval aspect of the campaign. If we can refit 4 cruiser and send them with 16 war ketch, the combo of our defensive systems and exotic weaponry should impress where our warhosts fall short.
On one hand, yes, getting a bunch of new warrior options turn 5, a bunch of new stewardship options turn 6, and a bunch of new herald option turn 7 sounds great.
But putting activating the sign of herald off is not the way to go. It isn't just for diplomacy with outsiders after all, but probably internal interaction between faction members as well in all likelihood. There is also the fact that we may need to keep communicating with Stel'iy-Rann as we search, or contact other craft worlds in the region we find clues in. Either way, it's not a thing to be put off.
I don't see why Alaitoc would be reluctant to take in Adaptationists? The Asuryani and Adaptationist philosophies aren't that opposed, as demonstrated by us having decent relations with the non-Alaitoc Asuryani. If anything, converting a Adaptationist Craftworld to their coalition would be a sizable feather in their cap politically.
Thing is that our main priority right now is getting people loosely into our coalition, which can be handled through the use of handshake deals. Mind you, we almost certainly can't do much of anything beyond that, but what we have is enough for now.
I don't see how this would prevent them from trying to recruit others into their coalition? It's not like the Curses Three are stopping us from building a coalition. Why would it stop Alaitoc?
I have to imagine that there will be narrative consequences for delaying the search for the long-lost brother for a decade.
- Pronouns
- Reader
They kind of have a whole adjusting their message and of the paths themselves now that they actually know what is happening, both to better sell what their offering and make things just a bit more tolerable. I imagine that the has them pretty occupied, to say nothing of the fact that their just sort of the figurehead leading a bunch of smaller coalitions which may have been shaken up by these revelations and need some internal maintenance.
Realistically this was a plotline Mechanis has in reserve since creation. Given we were never intended to accomplish a 1 in 8 billion success in uncovering the curses three so early undetected, I must conclude that we have infact earned a vast head start on this quest.
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RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
I agree with Randino here. We found them far, far sooner than we imagined possible. An extra half decade shouldn't have that large of a consequence. Plus, this is Eldar we are talking about. 10 years is next to nothing to them.