So what kind of loadout are we giving the tank pilots anyway? If we're going all in on crew survivability I'd suggest some sunblasters/needlers + VGA to save on logistics (giving our tank pilots and our troops the same loadout)
 
Yes i know. I take that into account in my meme plan to mount a superheavy weapon on a "light" tank.

Personally, i don't see what the fuss is: Iterating on an existing design is easy, and replacing System slots with weapon slots is a trivial change. That's why my original plan had a ton of system slots.
I don't think you can convert weapons back to system slots without "losing" some of them during iteration though.

Alectai is correct when he says that the tank will fall out of fashion the moment we develop 5 slots worth of "essential" vehicle gear.

Sooner, if people aren't willing to compromise on the second grav shield.

Iteration doesn't give a damn about the slot usage of the baseline.
See the iteration for the light grav vehicle having a base 24 which is what you get when you add all the weapon+system slots together.
 
So what kind of loadout are we giving the tank pilots anyway? If we're going all in on crew survivability I'd suggest some sunblasters/needlers + VGA to save on logistics (giving our tank pilots and our troops the same loadout)

Brigantine's all they need and anything more than that is kind of redundant.

It's damn good armor and because it's nonpowered, there's no maintenance issues.
 
Brigantine's all they need and anything more than that is kind of redundant.

It's damn good armor and because it's nonpowered, there's no maintenance issues.

Consider the following:

Chuck Guardsmen gets a lucky hit and kills a Morgana (preferring the name Tiranoc) and now has to deal with a squad of Vulks climbing out of the tank decked out in a loadout that makes space marines sweat.
 
Consider the following:

Chuck Guardsmen gets a lucky hit and kills a Morgana (preferring the name Tiranoc) and now has to deal with a squad of Vulks climbing out of the tank decked out in a loadout that makes space marines sweat.

... I mean.

It needs a lot more than a "Lucky Hit" to down a Morgana with how many defensive layers they have.
 
So what kind of loadout are we giving the tank pilots anyway? If we're going all in on crew survivability I'd suggest some sunblasters/needlers + VGA to save on logistics (giving our tank pilots and our troops the same loadout)

Radical different opinions there.
I go for full VGA, meanwhile you have Alectai on the just Brigantine on most is good enough.
 
Brigantine's all they need and anything more than that is kind of redundant.

It's damn good armor and because it's nonpowered, there's no maintenance issues.
Agreed, quite frankly, if one of these tanks were hit hard enough to bypass all of the defenses we layered on it, short of equipping the crew with Ithilmar, they are unlikely to survive the attention of whoever/whatever shot them anyways. And that's assuming they survive their tank being busted open so violently
 
Agreed, quite frankly, if one of these tanks were hit hard enough to bypass all of the defenses we layered on it, short of equipping the crew with Ithilmar, they are unlikely to survive the attention of whoever/whatever shot them anyways. And that's assuming they survive their tank being busted open so violently

I think you forget the fact that when their tank goes down and the crew is still alive they are still on the battlefield likely still having stuff around that would like to also see the crew dead.
 
[X] Plan: Fata Morgana-class Medium Battle Tank Chassis

What the hell, Redshirt's been fairly convincing.
 
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On another note, the necrons have a weapon called tesserract singularity chamber.

Which is basically a star suspended within a stasis field.

Sound familiar? It should, because it's basically the eldar's version of a fusion generator, but weaponized.

So... Should we try weaponizing it too?

@RandomTechPriest: your professional opinion?
 
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So what kind of loadout are we giving the tank pilots anyway? If we're going all in on crew survivability I'd suggest some sunblasters/needlers + VGA to save on logistics (giving our tank pilots and our troops the same loadout)
Maybe once we've spun up enough VGA and Sunblaster foundries.

Right now we don't even have enough VGA to equip our actual infantry so handing them out to vehicle crew seems questionable until all our infantry are in VGA since they're gonna get shot at way more than vehicle crews.

I think for now Brigandine and a Needler/Spike weapon are sufficient.
 
[] Plan: Fata Morgana-class Multirole Chassis, Gravshield Variant
[X] Plan: Fata Morgana-class Medium Battle Tank Chassis


While both plans are fantastic, I prefer the MBT plan simply because double barrel tanks are cool as hell.
 
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So what kind of loadout are we giving the tank pilots anyway? If we're going all in on crew survivability I'd suggest some sunblasters/needlers + VGA to save on logistics (giving our tank pilots and our troops the same loadout)
brigantine. we already have a foundry for it printing 450 armor, and we need VGW(can we please stop referring to it incorrectly) for our warrior not protected behind reinforced armored medium crew area and 3 built in defenses.

I think we are gonna regret passing on starlight reactor when we get to heavier classes with more default engines. a refined version could have given us another slot or two per engine.
Radical different opinions there.
I go for full VGA, meanwhile you have Alectai on the just Brigantine on most is good enough.
well, your kind of embracing a "be the turtle in a tank in a bunker" mindset. it's a fairly unproductive mindset where you go so ridiculously excessive on defense no matter what role the vessel is intended to play that you sacrifice effectiveness almost entirely, if we were anyone but broken ass space elves. instead it's more of a 60% drop in the vehicle serving it's intended purpose effectively.

please, explain, while we are currently fielding less than 0.05% of our populations theoretical Warhost capacity, you want to reserve void guard warsuits for our tank crews in reinforced, armored crew compartments behind a minimum triple integrated defensive layer rather than put the VGW on more troops and build stockpiles for warhost creation.
 
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Agreed, quite frankly, if one of these tanks were hit hard enough to bypass all of the defenses we layered on it, short of equipping the crew with Ithilmar, they are unlikely to survive the attention of whoever/whatever shot them anyways. And that's assuming they survive their tank being busted open so violently
I think when we have really nothing to do, we can make a super mobile holo-field light power armor for crews so they can just run away giggling. But until then brigandine is good.
 
well, your kind of embracing a "be the turtle in a tank in a bunker" mindset. it's a fairly unproductive mindset where you go so ridiculously excessive on defense no matter what role the vessel is intended to play that you sacrifice effectiveness almost entirely, if we were anyone but broken ass space elves. instead it's more of a 60% drop in the vehicle serving it's intended purpose effectively.

please, explain, while we are currently fielding less than 0.05% of our populations theoretical Warhost capacity, you want to reserve void guard warsuits for our tank crews in reinforced, armored crew compartments behind a minimum triple integrated defensive layer rather than put the VGW on more troops and build stockpiles for warhost creation.

Because the recruitment part is still fully done with AP and no option to change that.

The bottleneck isn't how much gear can throw out but how many we can recruit with the AP and then keep them alive while they get shot at.

As the system stands currently we will never be fielding a large army.

[ ] Peaceful (2 points)
Your people are less martial than average to start, and the need to adapt to a harsher galaxy than that to which you were accustomed will be a hard road.
Malus to War actions (until you do some social engineering and or have a disaster or two)
And if the option at the start is impacting the ability to change that I don't think we will even get the chance here for a very long time or having a really fucking bad time.
 
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I think when we have really nothing to do, we can make a super mobile holo-field light power armor for crews so they can just run away giggling. But until then brigandine is good.
A fully sealed light power armour equipped with a buffed-up sensor suite and holo-field projector would be a godsend for all vehicle crews. It would also be a magnificent gift to the Harlequins, so I am all for it.
 
I think when we have really nothing to do, we can make a super mobile holo-field light power armor for crews so they can just run away giggling. But until then brigandine is good.
You can do a light power armor with a Holo-Field and Power Assist for 5EP and for 6 EP you can add 4 stacks of Power-Assist to make them even speedier while probably being able to win a fist fight with an Ork Nob or Mega-Nob.

[] Chauffeur Light Power Armor
-[] Light (1EP 1 Slot)
-[] Powered (Cost Multiplier: 1.75 | Slot Multiplier: 2.5)
-[] Holo-field Projector (3EP 1 Slot)
Total: 1.75+3=4.75->5EP

[] Buff Chauffeur Light Power Armor
-[] Light (1EP 1 Slot)
-[] Powered (Cost Multiplier: 1.75 | Slot Multiplier: 2.5)
-[] Holo-field Projector (3EP 1 Slot)
-[] 4x Improved Power-Assist (0.3*4=1.2EP 1 Slot)
Total: 1.75+3+1.2=5.95->6EP

Edit:
That 4x Power-Assist would also be pretty helpful for letting the crew of a knocked out vehicle push any wreckage out of the way so that they can actually get out of the vehicle.
 
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-[X] Configuration: 1 Vehicle Weapon, 1 Heavy Weapon (-9 SLT) (13 Slots Remaining)
I do think this model is far less flexible than people believe. currently, if we for any reason decide we want a second vehicle weapon, the added costs are nothing to laugh at. if it were fielding two vehicles weapons instead, we could still use one of them for two heavy weapon slots with no conversion cost, while leaving 10 system slots. it's overall slightly more flexible in terms of a spending towards tank variations without massive EP investment.
Because the recruitment part is still fully done with AP and no option to change that.
no option yet. every aspect of our process for building a proper military has been made vastly more efficient just by building the tier 1 infrastructure. do you really think we've hit the summit of logistics efficiency? because we haven't. their is room yet to climb and I've no doubt we will eventually be able to print warhosts more freely, because according to the numbers the average large craft world has a few thousand warhosts compared in scale to Zahr-Tann.
 
If I read your cost comparison correctly, you're advocating a Fata Morgana design which leaves most of its system slots empty and calling that good. But you're not leaving the same approximate number of slots empty on the Hammer in your comparison, which is an artificial cost inflation. There is nothing that stops us from leaving vehicle weapon slots empty on the Hammer if we want to.

I don't think it's a realistic expectation that we will leave either the 13 system slots on the Fata Morgana mostly empty or the Hammer's weapon slots unused to save on costs, though. If we have the slots to use then people will vote to use them all in a final design.

So a more reasonable comparison here is something like:
Fata Morgana: 295 EP = 70 EP + 60 EP for two suncannons + 20 EP for two heavy needlers + 30 EP for extra grav-shield + 15 EP slot conversion tax +100 EP base cost
Hammer: 332 EP = 122 EP + 60 EP for two suncannons + 20 EP for two heavy needlers + 30 EP for extra grav-shield +100 EP base cost

We can realistically expect about a 10% difference in cost between these two designs, while the Hammer basically has far more armor and crew protection in exchange for significantly reduced top speed. That's the only real difference here.

Fortunately this difference in ultimate performance and cost is small enough that we can all relax, because the only real debate is "do we have 10% more tanks, or do we have tanks that the crew can crawl out of still alive after being hit by a volcano cannon?" and that's not a question to stress over.
 
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You can do a light power armor with a Holo-Field and Power Assist for 5EP and for 6 EP you can add 4 stacks of Power-Assist to make them even speedier while probably being able to win a fist fight with an Ork Nob or Mega-Nob.

[] Chauffeur Light Power Armor
-[] Light (1EP 1 Slot)
-[] Powered (Cost Multiplier: 1.75 | Slot Multiplier: 2.5)
-[] Holo-field Projector (3EP 1 Slot)
Total: 1.75+3=4.75->5EP
Honestly if we have the option I'd rather replace the holofield with chamoline plating. Tank drivers won't be using the holofield 90% of the time and can likely get by with it's less effective cousin.
 
Honestly this is helping to convince me that the Hammer might be more effective than I was initially expecting, I'll see about throwing my hat into the ring soon, gimme a sec
 
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