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All the possible home bases had there own strengths. Like Kiev with it's all in we might have have had multiple waystones prototypes in the production line at the same time and the new waystones would start being put to use immediately without further AP.
That's true, but to build multiple prototypes at the same time, we would have needed multiple prototypes ides. The Grey Lords were instrumentals in developing several components of the new waystone.
 
[X] Karak to Karak
[X] Runesmith to Runesmith

Not a fan of [ ] Empire to Empire. The founding premise of the project is bringing together magical paradigms across the continent without having to disclose secrets.
The flip side is the underlying premise of the project, unearthing "common knowledge that was forgotten since nobody paid attention". I think it's important for each contributor to at least be aware of how Severric resources are controlled and consumed in their own polities. The question is whether the Dawi want to do so officially (with all the potential blowback that entails) or through an "arrangement" between guilds.
 
Observations on the Borderlands of Chaos, by L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), M. Egrimm van Horstmann (Light), M. Esbern (Amber) & M. Seija (Amber), M. Johann (Gold), M. Maximilian de Gaynesford (Gold), M. Michel Solmann (Celestial), J. Alexandra Kohler (Bright), J. Barbitus (Light), J. Citharus (Light), J. Cyrston von Danling (Jade), J. Timpania (Light), J. Hubert Denzel (Celestial), 2487.
The Agrological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, by M. Tochter Grunfeld (Jade), L.M. Arburg (Jade), M. Cyrston von Danling (Jade), M. Dieter Vogt (Jade), L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), et alia, 2491.
Just noticed that Cyrston graduated to Magister going by this credit, good for him. Dieter Vogt is apparently a Magister Lord of Talabheim in canon, decades in the future. I'm hoping we can visit Lustria someday like with Elfcation, maybe we can hitch a ride on Cyrston's canon journey there alongside Johann.

EDIT: Nevermind, forgot that he was already promoted in an earlier update:
[ ] Magister Cyrston von Danling
Recently promoted and far junior to the other candidates, but you already know you can work well with him. He is extremely perceptive to the rhythms of Ghyran's flow, and thus suited to the study of Waystones.
 
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I mentioned this upthread, but depending on the nature of the Kislevite network, Kislev Cott may be an ideal site for the first New Waystone.

If the Ancient Widow has capacity constraints on how fast she can process or use up absorbed Wind magic and Dhar, building in an overflow to dump the excess in the river might be very useful for them. It might improve the efficiency of their existing Waystones if they can drain faster. Dhar dumped in the river at Kislev can be absorbed by the Altdorf Nexus and transported to the Vortex.

What it would almost certainly do is improve their network resilience in case a node was lost again.

As to symbolism, rejoining a previously isolated section of the network is a powerful political statement, even if it's only an overflow.

It also sends a message that we're really doing this for the good of the world. Previous potential hosts worried that not hunting might mean they're forgotten. Doing this would be a message that they won't be.

If possible, I'd put it not within the city itself but right outside the gates, to add to the symbolism by drawing parallells to the Great War against Chaos. This is the place where Magnus stopped Chaos, and it will be the place where our new Waystones first push it back.

Speaking of which, I think a good name for the design would be 'Magnus' Waystones (as opposed to the original 'Caledor' Waystones - or however you want to call them). After all, Magnus is famous for working together with Dwarves, (some) Elves and Kislev to stop Chaos, and was the one who reunited the Empire and created the Colleges of Magic.
What? No, of course it being shortened to MW has nothing to do with this, haha!
 
I don't see why this would help anything. It's one waystone. There are hundreds (?) of waystones in Kislev. One waystone absorbing some magic and putting it down the river is not really going to help anything. At most waystones can relay the energies of a few dozen waystones.

I doubt it. If I'm not mistaken, then we seem to have only a few dozen waystones in the Old World, according to the map. In relation to Kislev, there were only four waystones: Kislev, Erengard, Praag and Alexander's Castle. And the Waystones themselves are significant enough that in a normal situation they would cover regions close in size to one of the provinces of the Empire.
 
Huh, that's a bit odd to see Cryston on the Jade paper—he's not a druid, but actually a "first generation wizard", aka an external recruit. I wonder how he got involved on the enchantment thing. I would have thought that Tochter would have limited it to just her faction.
 
I doubt it. If I'm not mistaken, then we seem to have only a few dozen waystones in the Old World, according to the map. In relation to Kislev, there were only four waystones: Kislev, Erengard, Praag and Alexander's Castle. And the Waystones themselves are significant enough that in a normal situation they would cover regions close in size to one of the provinces of the Empire.

Those are Nexuses, each of which are the junction points of lines of Waystones.

Huh, that's a bit odd to see Cryston on the Jade paper—he's not a druid, but actually a "first generation wizard", aka an external recruit. I wonder how he got involved on the enchantment thing. I would have thought that Tochter would have limited it to just her faction.

Paranoth may not let her monopolise it that much - and there may simply not be enough enchanters with druidic heritage in the Jade College to exclude him when the choices was to let other Colleges or the elves access to their secrets or share with non-druidic Jades when integration problems cropped up.
 
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I honestly think Okri to Okri has the best bet of working, now that I've had a night to think on it. Basically, Kraag respects Mathilde. The biggest example is when he listened to her about boiling the dirt.

"Fine work," Kragg says, leaning against the parapet and gazing out at a sea of ash in satisfaction.
"Boil that," you say. Both Runelords turn to you.

"It's likely there's barely enough water as it is, boiling it out of the soil would re-solidify it," Thorek says.

"Not the water, the liquefied soil," you say.

"It's not actually a liquid-" Thorek begins.

"Reality's still twanging from the Eye, and the greenskins are still maintaining a Waaagh field, I can taste it from here. Between them, what something literally is doesn't matter so much, not right now. If it looks like a liquid and acts like a liquid, it can be boiled like a liquid."

I think he'd listen to us.
 
I doubt it. If I'm not mistaken, then we seem to have only a few dozen waystones in the Old World, according to the map. In relation to Kislev, there were only four waystones: Kislev, Erengard, Praag and Alexander's Castle. And the Waystones themselves are significant enough that in a normal situation they would cover regions close in size to one of the provinces of the Empire.
Those are nexuses, not waystones. Boney had this to say about Waystones needed for coverage:
Do we have an idea of how many waystones we need for a given area? Because if the average province has like 20 waystones, that very different from it having 200 or 2000.

If we only need to make like 25 waystones for all of Sylvania then only having like 20 elves capable of making the capstone is way less of a big deal than if we need to make 2000.
Back-of-the-envelope maths say the Empire would need about four thousand total for full coverage, so about 300-400 per province. It's probably safe to assume that somewhere between half to three quarters of those are already in place.
As you can see, each province requires multiple hundreds, not single digits.
 
I don't think we've seen any evidence that throughput of a leyline is that limited. Why shouldn't one Waystone be able to inject all the excess Dhar collected by the Kislevite network into the river?

The point would be to connect that dual purpose Waystone to the Kislev city nexus, and to use that as a relay to dump the Dhar into the riverbed. It's to act as an interface point for the entire Kislevite network to the Reik river system. The actual absorption of the Waystone would be irrelevant.
You are asking the wrong question. The question should not be "why should we not assume that a waystone can relay nexus-quantities of energies?" The question should be "why should we assume a waystone can relay nexus-quantities of energies?"

The act of creating nexuses risks blowing up an entire province. Even during the Golden Age when the expertise was much higher and the risks were much lower, they would not have entertained that without a reason. This was during the Golden Age too and waystone storages can last for centuries without being at risk of blowing up.

Now that I think about it, I am curious though how much dhar the menhirs can relay without letting it leak into the river.

The creation of new nexuses is not a logical and easy next step for the Waystone Project. It'd be more of an absolutely insanely overambitious moonshot that is practically guaranteed to kill everyone in the general area if you mess up and has a non-zero chance of depopulating a province.

I doubt it. If I'm not mistaken, then we seem to have only a few dozen waystones in the Old World, according to the map. In relation to Kislev, there were only four waystones: Kislev, Erengard, Praag and Alexander's Castle. And the Waystones themselves are significant enough that in a normal situation they would cover regions close in size to one of the provinces of the Empire.
I do not understand what you are saying. The waystones on the map are nexuses. We are not making more nexuses. The Empire needs about four thousand waystones for full coverage. Boney stated that somewhere between half and three quarters of them are still active.

Huh, that's a bit odd to see Cryston on the Jade paper—he's not a druid, but actually a "first generation wizard", aka an external recruit. I wonder how he got involved on the enchantment thing. I would have thought that Tochter would have limited it to just her faction.
Paranoth noted that Tochter was sensible for a Druid. I imagine he curtailed the offered personnel to people he thought that in the chance the Project succeeded would not hurt his cause that much.

Though the Project being successful is something he will need to manage for sure.
 
You know... if the reason new Karak Waystones to not work is that they cannot work in changing conditions and they erode faster than they can pick up speed... what if you made the conditions more stable artificially? Rockfalls would be pretty hard to deal with, but rain or snow, you could use Azyr, specifically an enchantment to just keep the skies clear around the mountain. Assuming rockfalls and other geological shifts were not able to outpace the natural attuning process of the stone you might be able to creep forward the construction at significant cost.
Thinking too small. Azyr is also the wind of luck and fate as well as weather. So make a Azyr enchantment so that the Rune is fated to persist and only grow deeper.
 
You are asking the wrong question. The question should not be "why should we not assume that a waystone can relay nexus-quantities of energies?" The question should be "why should we assume a waystone can relay nexus-quantities of energies?"

The act of creating nexuses risks blowing up an entire province. Even during the Golden Age when the expertise was much higher and the risks were much lower, they would not have entertained that without a reason. This was during the Golden Age too and waystone storages can last for centuries without being at risk of blowing up.

Now that I think about it, I am curious though how much dhar the menhirs can relay without letting it leak into the river.

I'm not sure we actually know what Nexuses do. I'm not even sure if we even know if there is a nexus-quantity of energy as opposed to a Waystone-quantity except as a trend- for example a Storm of Magic happening on top of a line of Waystones could result in more magic flowing through them than most nexuses usually channel. I don't think we've seen any indication that there is such a thing as too much energy for a single Waystone. All the failure cases we've seen for a single Waystone have been when it's been sabotaged or the downstream link has been severed, and the battery has blown up. I don't think we've seen or heard of any cases of a Waystone being overloaded by the volume of energy passing through it from upstream.

Nexuses, for example, could be built to plug the smaller warp portals that apparently opened when the warp gates detonated. We just don't know much about them I think. The one we've examined isn't functioning as a nexus anymore and instead like some gate to a liminal realm that's powering a massive enchantment. We just don't know
 
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Side note this must look really nice from the High Elven perspective, they show up and the product is basically already done.
Eltharion: *satisfied elf grumble*

We have not given Laurelorn any deliverables. A big part of being the host on the Project is that you get the most goodies. No one really expected to get waystones out of this, except perhaps Bretonnia. But now that we do have results, the host should be the one who gets priority. As far as I can tell that's what everyone expected going into the Project: that the host got dibs on the results.
I think we have? Hosting this was part of the Queen's initiative to break isolationism and develop positive diplomatic cred with other nations. It's not tangible, but positive rep is definitely a thing.

1000s of years from now:

Bob: What is that, Bill?
Bill: Magic rock.
Bob: Think there's anything to steal in there?
Bill: No, Bob. It's made of rock.
Gotta specific. Ugly rock :p

Lol that clashing granite and marble is severe enough to be an outright Listed Malus. The dwarf infection is strong
 
Loved the giganerds in the Colleges churning out some papers on the Foundation enchantment.


The Rune in question is absolutely massive and easily visible when you know what to look for, and indistinguishable from the natural crags and contours of the mountainside if you don't. On this particular mountain it's on the southwestern flank and so gradually becomes visible as you approach. Eike becomes aware of your eyes on her before she spots the Rune, which tips her off that there's something to see and leads her to finding it a few moments later.



"We could go out today and carve the same runes upon a mountain, and it would last until the next rain or snow or rockslide," Thorek says as you near the base of the chosen exemplar. "Barely enough time to have begun accumulating momentum. If that was all there was to it, the ones that connect the Karaks could not have survived the millennia that have passed, or earthquakes like those that marked the beginning of the Time of Woes. That these Runes have survived to this day means they can only have been carved with a full understanding of the discontinuities, catchment funnels, and gap winds that act on the mountains over time, so that these forces will carve the Runes deeper, rather than obliterating them. I cannot even begin to fathom how they were able to so deeply understand an unbroken chain of mountains from Karak Azgal to Karak Vlag more truly than we today do those of our own Karaks."



You run your eyes over the stone within the fissure which shows no sign of ever having felt a pick. The World's Edge Mountains is rich with earthbound magic, the largest portion of which was once Azyr that was blown into it by the wind or earthed by storms, and that faint background glow makes anything the Rune might be doing impossible to perceive from here. To actually examine what it is doing would require you to dig into the subterranean flows of magic deep below the roots of the mountains, far below the depths where Dwarven or even Skaven tunnels usually penetrate. "It was my impression that Runes are remarkably sensitive to the exact alignment of angles."

For the bolded bit, I'm suspicious now that the designers of the mountain relay Runes did not accomplish this by mundane means.

Theory: Grungni, Thungni and some ancient High Mage made a wager about who could figure out [mountain relay understanding] faster. Thungni spent some length of time on using his big proto-apotheosized brain on the mundane methods Thorek describes. Meanwhile the High Mage uses some blend of Azyr, Chamon, Hysh, and Ghyran to make a spell of [finding the Rune alignment of a mountain].

Then Grungni does the cost-benefit analysis and decides he'd rather have one High Mage go around assaying the roots of the mountains and pass the output on to the Runesmiths to use 'instantly', instead of having to spend one Runesmith lifetime per mountain.
 
Side note this must look really nice from the High Elven perspective, they show up and the product is basically already done.
Eltharion is ecstatic. Teclis is proud/smug. Most Asur are uninterested. And all the political bigwigs are still busy being outraged that Ulthuan, Shield Of The World, signed a treaty acknowledging half the powers in the Old World as equal partners.

Regarding Waystone placement:
If this turn then Laurelorn, assuming they have somewhere that needs a new Waystone. Otherwise Praag.
If next turn then Kislev, combined with poking their network and rolling out a tributary to Laurelorn.
 
I think we have? Hosting this was part of the Queen's initiative to break isolationism and develop positive diplomatic cred with other nations. It's not tangible, but positive rep is definitely a thing.

For some parts of Laurelorn, I think breaking isolation is a cost that the queen was using the dangling prospect of what the Waystone Project could deliver to pay for.
 
The act of creating nexuses risks blowing up an entire province. Even during the Golden Age when the expertise was much higher and the risks were much lower, they would not have entertained that without a reason. This was during the Golden Age too and waystone storages can last for centuries without being at risk of blowing up.

While I don't disagree that there are likely limitations on storage and throughput, this seems to be a mischaracterization. The act of experimenting with how to create a Nexus risks blowing up a province. It seems fair to assume that once a working method is found, that risk goes down considerably.

As far as the vote...

Someone is going to ask these questions, eventually. That means "Do not ask" is kicking it down the line and leaving it up to chance who that person is. Asking now is how you get in ahead of anyone else so you can actually control the political and reputational impact of the answers. And I'd much rather have an official response ready for when the person asking is Countess Otilla von Shitheel who thinks she's got a get rich quick scheme or Lord Mikkael van Chaotica who's realized there's this big faultline everyone's been dancing around and wouldn't it be just jolly if he were to start chucking as many spanners at it as he can?

[X] Karak to Karak
 
I'm not sure we actually know what Nexuses do.
I agree. For one thing, if nexuses were as simple as "this is where two or more leylines join" with nothing else to it, why did they build so many nexuses around the Middle Mountains? In a circle with a radius of 150 mi around the southern foothills of those mountains there are six nexuses - almost as many as the rest of the Empire has combined. And we have no idea why they did that.
 
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I agree. For one thing, if nexuses were as simple as "this is where two or more leylines join" with nothing else to it, why did they build so many nexuses around the Middle Mountains? In a circle with a radius of 150mi around Drakwald Forest, there are six nexuses - almost as many as the rest of the Empire has combined. And we have no idea why they did that.

Well it might be that a lot of lines cross there, which would imply that there is an unusual number of ley lines and thus density of magic around those mountains. The strangeness may not be intrinsic to the network in other words, but to the much older ley lines atop which it was built
 
I'm not sure we actually know what Nexuses do. I'm not even sure if we even know if there is a nexus-quantity of energy as opposed to a Waystone-quantity except as a trend- for example a Storm of Magic happening on top of a line of Waystones could result in more magic flowing through themthan most nexuses usually channel. I don't think we've seen any indication that there is such a thing as too much energy for a single Waystone. All the failure cases we've seen for a single Waystone have been when it's been sabotaged or the downstream link has been severed, and the battery has blown up. I don't think we've seen or heard of any cases of a Waystone being overloaded by the volume of energy passing through it from upstream.

Nexuses, for example, could be built to plug the smaller warp portals that apparently opened when the warp gates detonated. We just don't know much about them I think. The one we've examined isn't functioning as a nexus anymore.
Edit: The opening was overly harsh so I am retracting it.

Nexuses exist to relay the energies of dozens and hundreds of waystones. They probably do other things. The density of nexuses in the Forest of Shadows would indicate that having more of them in an area can help with draining bad shit. But the main reason they exist is to relay the immense energies collected by a dozens and hundreds of waystones all the way to Ulthuan.

Fort Solace was obviously not built to close a portal. It was built to relay energy. If you want to further argue that it was built to close a portal, feel safe in the knowledge I will not acknowledge it.

You are the one trying to prove that waystones can handle the energy of dozens or hundreds of other waystones chains. That is up to you to find the evidence of. There is absolutely zero reason to think that and quite a bit to think it is outright wrong.

(Edit: How would waystones even be overloaded by Storms of Magic if they aren't cut off from the network? Waystones are designed to limit how much energy can be absorbed by them at a time. They also have storages that can last for centuries being cut off before blowing up as a dhar bomb. They also only release energy to the leyline in set intervals.

I'm pretty sure the main limit to the waystone-leylines is that they just aren't "carved" to be big enough to relay that much energy. If you tried to put more in it would jam. I mean, how would a normal waystone carve a big enough route to compare to the route a nexus could carve?)

(Edit 2: How is a nexus's worth of energy supposed to fit?)

(Edit 3: We know that leylines have limits as to how much they can fit. And I found a quote! Boney did not say that nexuses were not needed to handle flows of nexus-quantities of energies. Boney stated that because nexuses handle it between single "pipelines" rivers could handle it without a nexus.)

Do the people on this project with more knowledge of Nexuses have reason to believe that rivers will need constructions on a similar scale as nexi to handle a Nexus-level of energy?
Probably not. A leyline between nexuses is carrying all of that in a single 'pipeline'. The riverine methods use the flow of water (and we're talking about an absolutely mind-boggling amount of water) to do most of the work and are just using an artificial 'pipeline' for the Dhar.


While I don't disagree that there are likely limitations on storage and throughput, this seems to be a mischaracterization. The act of experimenting with how to create a Nexus risks blowing up a province. It seems fair to assume that once a working method is found, that risk goes down considerably.
Boney said creating new nexuses risks blowing up a province. Not that researching how to build them risks blowing up a province. I also already said that expertise (infrastructure is certainly important too) would reduce the risk. I posted a comment wondering why the Elves of the Golden Age put so many nexuses in the Forest of Shadows if that was a risk (even with greater expertise and infrastructure) and Boney implied there is something off about the Forest of Shadows.

Not that I was wrong in saying there was a risk of blowing up a province by the act of building a nexus.

Why the hell did the elves of the Golden Age put so many damn nexuses in the area of the Middle Mountains? If that is the risk that comes with trying to make them? Obviously it was less risky in the Golden Age, but why the hell are there so many? There are at least four in it and bordering it. There's an additional seven near those.

Borek mentioned something about it drawing the Karaz Ghumzul dwarfs, but that is still a lot.
The most straightforward theory would be they were trying to drain the bad vibes out of the Forest of Shadows, but the Middle Mountains do have a lot of unpleasant strangeness about them. That the Elves of the Golden Age thought there needed a three-nexus relay connecting the Middle Mountains to the Talabheim nexus instead of the Forest of Shadows nexuses being connected just through Tor Lithanel is an eyebrow-raiser. If they just wanted to prevent Altdorf from being a single point of failure there would have been much easier ways to manage that.

I agree. For one thing, if nexuses were as simple as "this is where two or more leylines join" with nothing else to it, why did they build so many nexuses around the Middle Mountains? In a circle with a radius of 150mi around the southern foothills of those mountains there are six nexuses - almost as many as the rest of the Empire has combined. And we have no idea why they did that.
Boney has talked about that before. I've posted the comment above.

And "two or more" leylines join is downplaying it. Gross Selon had a dozen leylines from waystones feeding it. I doubt even the Wolf's Run nexuses have less than six waystone leylines feeding them.
 
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It occurs to me that Ranald's favorite has a very large boon from the Karaz Ankor for freeing the dwarf hold. Might be time to cash that in if she goes for it.
 
It occurs to me that Ranald's favorite has a very large boon from the Karaz Ankor for freeing the dwarf hold. Might be time to cash that in if she goes for it.
We have a Transcendent Boon from Karak Vlag. We do not have a Transcendent Boon from the Karaz Ankor as a whole. Karak Vlag will break itself into pieces trying to fulfill Mathilde's request, but that doesn't make it possible for them to give her information that they do not, in fact, possess. Karak Vlag's debt to us will not compel Thorgrim; furthermore, while we do possess a Boon from the KaK Runesmith's Guild for doing Kragg a solid, Boney had this to say:
The best case scenario from using a boon would be information would be granted to Mathilde and not to be shared with anyone else, which would make it of very limited use for the Waystone Project.
So, you see, it is not useful to our purposes.
 
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