Good idea, we also need a way to move araound without leaving witnessess. Using our Gyrocopter for long distances is not a good idea in this situation.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Good idea, we also need a way to move araound without leaving witnessess. Using our Gyrocopter for long distances is not a good idea in this situation.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Yeah, but we're one of the best greys. The other ones might be missing something. You're assuming that what we have around the emperor is enough, I am assuming what is around the Tzarevich is also enough. What was around the empress was likely also enough and the fact one empress was an agent for vampires isn't a sign that it is usually insufficient. See what I'm driving at here?
What level is certain enough for you then? From my perspective we need a smoking gun, something to indicate that he is anything but what he appears to be. And no assassinating his father isn't that, it is entirely consistent with what we've experienced in the past.
Then why would she look? You can't have it both ways, either she's sufficiently paranoid that him acting in character for what we know is suspicious or she's so suspicious that she wants to verify that he isn't a chaos cultist despite not acting differently.
And what's more if she's not good enough to notice something is off, why would she be good enough to find something when she doesn't even know what to look for!
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- Location
- Oklahoma
It's actually pretty interesting that Boris has, across three meetings, pegged Mathilde's character enough to make this proprosal.
Namely, that while she's a terrifying magical assassin, she's a terrifying magical assassin with principles, and those principles align at least in part with his own.
And, unlike, Mathilde, he doesn't have the advantage of soft-mindreading level Windsight.
I guess she made as much an impression on him as he did on her.
Namely, that while she's a terrifying magical assassin, she's a terrifying magical assassin with principles, and those principles align at least in part with his own.
And, unlike, Mathilde, he doesn't have the advantage of soft-mindreading level Windsight.
I guess she made as much an impression on him as he did on her.
Protector coin
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Did we have it on for Drycha?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Did we have that active during the treespedition?
[X] Yes
The alternatives as they're presented are worse, and If it will help Kislev help us help them the price is worth it.
Assuming All Is As It Seems
The alternatives as they're presented are worse, and If it will help Kislev help us help them the price is worth it.
Assuming All Is As It Seems
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I just checked, we had Night Prowler.
Sorry, it was Night prowler. For some reason I thought it was protector.
That actually makes me really uneasy that he would ask someone who he worked with once to assassinate his dad with no other testament to our character.
[X] No
Edit: Ninja
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Mathilde tends to leave an impression on everyone. The consequences of being a near-mythical figure whose every action sends ripples throughout the world.
Like, it's not just the few meetings between them that he's probably basing his judgements on. I have very little doubt that when he started to seriously consider this route, he did his research on Mathilde, and one doesn't really need to look far to see just what sort of person Mathilde is. She doesn't really hide it.
- Pronouns
- He
[X] Yes
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
At searching for anti-order forces? No, we aren't one of the best Greys. We are good at a lot of stuff, but uncovering secret cults isn't what we are exceptional at. We are very good at it, not exceptional. Look at our skills: which of them is relevant? Interrogation and our knowledge of Chaos, that's about it. We gave the wrong (useful, but wrong) recommendation re: skull river, had to be told about the Nordlanders fleeing, and I could go on. Working with Dwarves has meant we haven't needed to be good at this also. We are great at being secret, not so much grabbing other's secrets. And by not so much, I mean we are pretty good at it, just not excellent.
Sadly, we are the only option to investigate prior to an assassination, because we can't employ the guys really excellent at it. But we don't even know that a good check of Boris has been done.
... Sure, so we might like to search for a smoking gun? Not much of an ask here. Also, "Kill my father" is never not a worrying sign. It's worthy of investigation.
In contrast, you want to take his word at 3 meetings when we have know knowledge of institutional checks that would have happened.
... Again, you are doing a fallacy of the excluded middle. There's a level of investigation that we can do. We know the Empire is better at investigating than us, so we are fine with the Emperor. We don't know that Kislev is. So we investigate. Not hard.
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- Location
- France
To be fair, our meetings so far have been "hey, I saved all those dwarves from Chaos. I'm now looking for a place to do some more anti-chaos research. And now I'm coming back to offer you some actionable anti-chaos stuff".
Of course his pitch was "kill this Tsar to improve our readiness against Chaos", all he's see us do is take huge risks and dedicate our life to fighting it.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Well, aside from the multiple public and notable actions she's participated in that he could probably get information on easily. You know, stuff like tearing down Castle Drakenhof, half the stuff with the dwarves, Vlag, helping out against Drycha when she didn't really need to… stuff like that.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean, i'd assume like most of the other participants in the waystone projects, that Boris is getting messages from both the Hags and Ice witches including their comments on Mathilde. If Boris wanted too, he would have plenty of subtler ways of finding out what sort of person Mathilde is. After all, that's kinda one of the reason she might be one of the most famous Grey's on the continent
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Eh, if you have someone from the mob show up at your door needing your help with X, it might make sense to ask them to off Y as payment, cause that's something they do and it's a skill hard to get elsewhere. Same with the Grey Wizards: we are known as spies and assassins. Why not make use of that if one shows up at your doorstep: Greys are good at assassination, Kislev might not have a ton of known assassins, and we are not related to Kislev, so very deniable as an asset. Like asking us is entirely reasonable. It's that he wants to kill his father that's a little questionable, and worthy of looking into.
- Location
- Earth
Most Greys don't have windsight as good as ours. Mathilde being able to see his emotions makes a big difference on making judgement calls; chaos cultists generally don't feel resolve and grief upon ordering an assassination. There's ways to fool windsight, of course, but there's a point where paranoia becomes counterproductive. A lot of that insitutional paranoia manifests as what Mathilde already does naturally as part of her below-abstraction-level thoughts and actions, like that meeting with Thorek on Turn 35 which was unusual enough that she thought it might've been an assassination attempt by an imposter. I think any due-diligence that needs to be met would be part of that, if necessary.
Chuck a Hysh orb at him.
I think a good chunk of that impression was bringing back Vlag and the other big chunk was doing a screw Chaos project. Further publicly available info (at Boris' level) would have boosted Mathilde's badass cred and fighting Drycha likely sealed the deal but the my take is that the anti-Chaos stuff is what really made an impression on Boris: killing Waaghs and Skaven and vampires and angry forest spirits is good but screwing Chaos is great.
Everything we've seen about Boris indicates that he's really into the anti-Chaos stuff to an obsessive extent. He was willing to seriously antagonise Ulthuan, strongarm the Hags and pay an immense sum just for the privilege of hosting the Project: all this was his first offer.
BagFullOfLizards
Some bag, mostly lizards
- Location
- A bag
[X] Yes
I have to wonder what would happen if we had the coin set to Protector for this 😄
I have to wonder what would happen if we had the coin set to Protector for this 😄
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
First off don't Spaghetti.
Anyway, that is still more than sufficient to deal with anything other than a very high tier magus, and when did we learn that we were wrong about skull river? We know a Marienberg place burned down cause they were chaos, not that they were the ones behind it. Why would we learn about the Nordlanders fleeing from just being able to glare at someone, its a bit different between that and seeing that they're hidding mutations under cloths or surpressing their gift of magic.
We can assume that the people in Kislev where chaos is a much bigger threat on a day-to-day basis and someone who regularly interacts with Hag Witches and Ice Witches has been checked.
Yes I am willing to take him at his word because he has done the same thing for us. The same way I am willing to assume that Kislev has at least equal if not better means of detecting chaos cultists than the empire does, especially in the aftermath of Kattrin the bloody and that he interacts with them regularly.
And that's not even what that fallacy is!
My premise is
1) From our best observation Boris Bokhah is not behaving unusually compared to all our prior interactions with him which would indicate he's a servant of the ruinous powers.
2) To our knowledge Boris Bokhah has good faith reasons to want to do this which we can easily understand.
3) We are aware that Boris Bokhah has equal reasons to be highly suspicious of us that are at least equal to what we have to be suspicious of him.
4) We can reasonably suspect that Boris Bokhah has been exposed to at least as strenuous vetting procedures as we'd see in the empire.
5) Therefore Boris Bokhah is what he appears to be.
To be engaged in the fallacy I'd have to be leaving out something that would change the result. Like "Boris Bokhah had an unexplained disappearance and came back months later without explanation."
If this ultimately boils down to "do you think it reasonable that he wants to assassinate his father" then that's just a fundamental disagreement on the premise. Based on what I've seen of the man, yes I think it reasonable that he would come to that conclusion when pushed by circumstances beyond his control as a final option.
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- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Yes
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Literally every piece of evidence we have IC is that he's cool, it's not all the evidence ever, but it's consistent.
I don't think he is, but with the Everchosen Bowl ongoing, I think taking precautions in case he is would be reasonable. I would not find him being a Khorne cultist completely unreasonable.
I think this is false, as regards Boris anyway. Boris is very deep in affiliation with the Witches in Kislev, both the Ice Witches and Hag Witches, as demonstrated by us having both on the Waystone Project, and Hag Witches are very good at sniffing out Chaos. It is one of their stated primary skill sets.
To reiterate my previous post:
Fuck.
With that being said, I think the answer has to be:
[X] Yes
Fuck.
With that being said, I think the answer has to be:
[X] Yes