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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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uri said:
I like stenneir and hella loves her father if it was anyone else saying this I'm sure most people would vote to hunt the killer to the end of the earth.
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Depends on context. Steinarr has Done Things. I wouldn't vote to go after someone who was avenging a bad thing Steinarr actually did who killed him in a fair fight.

uri said:
Also don't forget Gabriel isn't Norse (nor dos he know the language I don't think so he can't pay wergild) if he kills sttiner and we don't avenge the grudge we'll get nid and probably continue to get it as long as we don't try to get some sort of revenge.
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He does know the language and can legally pay weregild. That doesn't stop the rest of the family from seeking revenge, but we can try and talk them out of it to the best of our ability.
 
Alectai said:
That's not Secret I don't think, at least not a Banned Topic. We know enough about Steel to know it's Cursed, and that the Steelfathers take it in.
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We know, but does Gabriel know?
He is a Christian. He just declared intent to kill our father.
Information is power, and we should not give our enemies power.

wabbitking said:
[X] Alectai

I can't think of any better way to explain to Gabriel that he needs "gets good" insanely quickly or he's not going to be able to do it.
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But why would we want to explain that to him? We do not want him to succeed.

uri said:
Honestly if Gabriel ever manages to kill stenier -a big, big if- I'll vote to kill him in revenge.

I like stenneir and hella loves her father if it was anyone else saying this I'm sure most people would vote to hunt the killer to the end of the earth.

Also don't forget Gabriel isn't Norse (nor dos he know the language I don't think so he can't pay wergild) if he kills sttiner and we don't avenge the grudge we'll get nid and probably continue to get it as long as we don't try to get some sort of revenge.

Not to mention our family, I don't see them letting such a grudge go.
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100% agreed.
uri said:
In short, I don't think we should just tell him "sure go ahead and try".
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How about telling him "go ahead and try" in a way that minimizes his chances?
Like this:
Toboe said:
[X] "Want a place on my ship on the way back home so you can challenge father to a duel?"
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
He does know the language and can legally pay weregild. That doesn't stop the rest of the family from seeking revenge, but we can try and talk them out of it to the best of our ability.
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We may be able to talk them out of it, but we shouldn't.
 
Grudge Spirals only serve the Enemy, is the point.

You don't necessarily have to turn the other cheek, but assuming that "Our side can do whatever we want without consequences because we'll treat anyone who seeks to apply Consequences as a mortal enemy" is a bad way to go. The whole point of The Law is to allow things to be de-escalated without everyone killing each other.
 
Yeah the family does have a right to seek revenge if Gabriel kills Steinarr. If we're not going to stand in Gabriel's way I don't see why we would stand in theirs.
 
Constenanto said:
Yeah the family does have a right to seek revenge if Gabriel kills Steinarr. If we're not going to stand in Gabriel's way I don't see why we would stand in theirs.
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Realistically speaking, the amount of sheer bullshit that would be involved in Gabriel defeating Steinarr in Fair Contest before something else kills the latter first would be... SoD breaking, to say the least. Steinarr bodied a Tenth Decade Knight, Gabriel isn't matching that in a couple years without swearing himself to Satan or something, and that's not going to be something that resembles our friend at all.

Experience matters, and while Steinarr has plateaued since his peak, the amount of Experience he got until then is world class, and he's tempered that with considerable wisdom and practice. That's not a gap that can be closed with just a year or two of training, not without wrecking himself in some other way.
 
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Toboe said:
We know, but does Gabriel know?
He is a Christian. He just declared intent to kill our father.
Information is power, and we should not give our enemies power.
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Steel is Bad Juju. Knowing that is not power that is useful to him in any way...arguably, it makes him less of a threat if he avoids it because Steel is also Very Powerful.

Constenanto said:
Yeah the family does have a right to seek revenge if Gabriel kills Steinarr. If we're not going to stand in Gabriel's way I don't see why we would stand in theirs.
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We wouldn't actually prevent them, just try and convince them not to. We'd try and convince Gabriel not to as well if we had any chance at all of success.
 
Alectai said:
Honorable Death from an Honorable Foe in Fair Contest when they're willing to pay compensation is generally enough to settle honor's purposes.
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except he doesn't have any chance at honorable combat nor is he labile to get hit with Nid for fighting dishonorably because he isn't norse.

Alectai said:
The problem comes if he gets a gank squad or uses a treacherous means to do it.
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Which is likely what he's going to do because there is no way he can succussed otherwise.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Depends on context. Steinarr has Done Things. I wouldn't vote to go after someone who was avenging a bad thing Steinarr actually did who killed him in a fair fight.
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We did things, our brother did things, our friends did things and our children will probably do things. If someone from the christen village we raided ever seeked revenge against us and killed abjorn will you just let it go?

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
He does know the language and can legally pay weregild. That doesn't stop the rest of the family from seeking revenge, but we can try and talk them out of it to the best of our ability.
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Why the fuck would we?

Alectai said:
Our side can do whatever we want without consequences because we'll treat anyone who seeks to apply Consequences as a mortal enemy" is
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Sure but we also cant just go "sure have a go at him" shrug our shoulder and accept the outcome, we should be attempting to talk him out off it not motivating him to get strong enough to do so and giving him valuable knowledge for that purpose.
 
Man, all I can say is that I hope Gabriel just drops it, or something. I really don't want to butt heads with him, since he's our friend. But I wouldn't take him killing Steinarr lying down... especially when we're like, the entire reason Steinarr went raiding in the first place (it was to make up for what he'd lost in the weregild he'd had to give the Burissons when we killed Lori).

It would leave a real bad taste in my mouth, and at the end of the day while Gabriel is a friend, Steinarr is family. I hold 0 doubt he'd do the same (bar the most egregious of circumstances, if Halla did something real fucked up) for us if he had to kill a friend to save our lives.
 
uri said:
Why the fuck would we?
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Because besides from this one instance, Gabriel has been nothing but helpful to us and that should be accounted for in this situation. Him saying he wants to kill our dad doesn't suddenly make him freaking Horra and he shouldn't be automatically treated as such.
 
In regard to a gank squad, reminding him that if he try it in any other way then honorable duel it will likely involve our whole family, which at this point will be a feud to the end. and beside any force of Knights landing will attract a full sized response which will create a bad blood.

Basically dissuade him from trying to do anything other then a straight duel, which honestly mean that dad straight up will die of old age first, making Gab run around doing righteous deeds to empower himself while Stein die would be best both for us and for Gabriel, at least them he will find fulfillment in the time he spend preparing himself.
 
uri said:
We did things, our brother did things, our friends did things and our children will probably do things. If someone from the christen village we raided ever seeked revenge against us and killed abjorn will you just let it go?
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Probably not. But on the other hand, we don't know them, which does make a difference in that. And I wouldn't declare a blood feud on their whole family either.

uri said:
Why the fuck would we?
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To avoid them dying, for one thing. If Gabriel actually takes Steinarr in a fair fight, I'm not sure who's got the chops to go after him. Also because revenge spirals are how you wind up with everyone dead. And that's no good.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Steel is Bad Juju. Knowing that is not power that is useful to him in any way...arguably, it makes him less of a threat if he avoids it because Steel is also Very Powerful.
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But why the fuck tell him?
It is a detail of Norse powersystems.
Default should be to not tell people associated with enemy factions anything that might be useful against us.
If we decide that there is a gain greater than the risk? Ok. But just handing it out like this? wtf?

uri said:
Sure but we also cant just go "sure have a go at him" shrug our shoulder and accept the outcome, we should be attempting to talk him out off it not motivating him to get strong enough to do so and giving him valuable knowledge for that purpose.
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Exactly.

Constenanto said:
Man, all I can say is that I hope Gabriel just drops it, or something. I really don't want to butt heads with him, since he's our friend. But I wouldn't take him killing Steinarr lying down... especially when we're like, the entire reason Steinarr went raiding in the first place (it was to make up for what he'd lost in the weregild he'd had to give the Burissons when we killed Lori).

It would leave a real bad taste in my mouth, and at the end of the day while Gabriel is a friend, Steinarr is family. I hold 0 doubt he'd do the same (bar the most egregious of circumstances, if Halla did something real fucked up) for us if he had to kill a friend to save our lives.
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Then why do the long speech giving him info? (Curse of steel, spelling out fated days, giving him a reminder that he doesn't have much time left (aka: if you want to do it you have to do it quickly!
When we can offer him a ride back to Norway. A ride that, if he accepts, would mean he has to come alone. And would cut him of from growth boosters he'd have in Christian lands.
 
Toboe said:
Then why do the long speech giving him info? (Curse of steel, spelling out fated days, giving him a reminder that he doesn't have much time left (aka: if you want to do it you have to do it quickly!
When we can offer him a ride back to Norway. A ride that, if he accepts, would mean he has to come alone. And would cut him of from growth boosters he'd have in Christian lands.
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I don't know why you're asking me, I'm pretty sure I've said I'm not a fan of it but I've got nothing better. I'm not pushing for the speech. Uh, but like, I don't expect him to stay in Norway if we offer him to do so, and I'd rather not take him by force.
 
Just to clarify a thing that's come up in the discord, if you end up picking an option that isn't entirely in-character for Halla, I'll twist it around until it fits—while still keeping the core intent intact
 
[x] "I can see this is something you've fought long and hard about. I understand where you're coming from. I fought to bring the killer of my uncles' to justice. But I'm worried about what you're planning on doing to become strong enough to face him, and I'm worried about the consequences. Jerasmus taught me your book, and I know it counsels against vengeance. I saw what happened to you in your spar, and I think you would have done something that stained you if you hadn't been stopped. I worry about what this might cost you. I'm also worried this might spiral out of control - even if I stepped aside, I can't guarantee my family wouldn't seek retribution, and that could lead to war between our peoples."

Felt the need to write out my own thoughts.
 
seekingflame brought up on Discord the idea of asking him not to fight Steinarr until he can beat Halla in a fight. Which seems like a good call all around...he has no chance if he can't, and it provides us with the ability to generally shut things down. That couldn't be the only thig said, but maybe as an addition to KreenWarrior or Alectai's plans.
 
[X] I'm not gonna wish you luck on that. Better men than you have tried, and better men than you have died. I doubt I'll be able to fish you out of a river of souls if you fail either; your White Christ would take offense to that. Walk carefully if that's the path you must walk- and for sake of Thor anf myself, have a backup plan if something grander than us is scheduled for my father's fated day. An unfulfilled oath would eat decades of years and centuries of your cultivation, Gabriel. Don't waste it on the dead.
 
mythfan12 said:
Because besides from this one instance, Gabriel has been nothing but helpful to us and that should be accounted for in this situation. Him saying he wants to kill our dad doesn't suddenly make him freaking Horra and he shouldn't be automatically treated as such.
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And that is why I'm not going "lets kill him now" but "if he succeeds we'll kill him" very big difference.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
And I wouldn't declare a blood feud on their whole family either.
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Neither would I but I would kill whoever killed our friends/family members.
 
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