Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

No it isnt.
It works best when employed to empower groups of people, but individually it can still be pretty potent in its own right.
Remind me by Sunday if I forget to build you one or two.
It's only good if the subject has existing skills that work well with the build.

The base powers are stuff like growing claws that match with standard melee weapons or spitting acid, with a cap of 2-3 powers at most. I'm sure there's something broken deep enough in the splats, but we don't control what they get and we can't assume everyone will get the most poorly written powers available to them.

A ww2 vet returned to their prime and given the right leverage could be a good mook, but slapping demons into random people off the street isn't going to get us much of use.
 
1) Marcone became a Freeholding Lord in canon while the White Court was still in Chicago, Dresden was in residence, Michael was still serving and the White Council used Chicago as a major travel nexus and one of their meeting spots.
And for all that time, he and the White Court operated side by side with each other.

Odin wouldnt care. Its not like Molly has a history of going out shanking people on impulse.
All thhose things you mention are global level organizations. None of them could claim Chicago without infringing on the interests of others. Only a relatively independent minor(ish) freeholding lord could be allowed to take control of it. Molly, for all her power, qualifies, but would be... inconvenient to many.
I have zero interest in giving Daniel offensive power.
This is not a YA series where the family can all go adventuring, and where its a charming bonding exercise for teenage paramours. This aint Season 1 Buffy. There's seriousface risks for everyone involved in this shit, and the costs are not just personal.

This is not a way of life that you actually retire from, and I dont want to enable a 16-17 year old to jump in because his first girlfriend was born into the Life.
We fundamentally disagree here and won't see eye to eye on this. I am interested in giving Daniel power, and having Buffy season 1 adventures (but with higher power levels).
Just buying up the essential charms is 54xp.
Add Mo Kung 2 at 6xp, Summoning/Warding 3 at 7 xp and Acute Senses 1(Hearing or Sight) at 4xp and you are at 71xp, above the cap. And we still have significant gaps in capability for a solo operator.

Or you could drop Call The Hunt, freeing up 12xp for Awareness 3, Alertness 3 and Occult 2, and thus exchanging combat ability for some more rounding. Significantly more vulnerable to getting bumrushed out of the blue.
She doesn't need to waste XP on half of that, and should instead work in-story to obtain those, thus earning XP. Your insistanse of wasting XP on effort-obtainable things is frankly bizarre.

Chicago is already in Marcone's hands.
He runs most of the mundane crime, and has significant penetration into both the real estate industry and at least some of the supernatural. All that he doesnt have is the overt supernatural recognition as a Player.
No it's not. Not yet, at least on the supernatural side, and it's a side that matters. And Molly's presence in Chicago disrupts Odin's and Marcone's plans to set him up as such.
Ten to one there's been applications in Molly's name at the admissions departments of every R1 university in Greater Boston: MIT, Northeastern U, Boston U, Boston College, Harvard, Brandeis, and Tufts.

At least since Johann bit the dust in September. Possibly since Gard saw us make those EMP bombs in June.
I'll take that bet, actually.
 
With the powers available to us, we could very thoroughly take over Chicago and enact massive reform.
We don't need law or finance or politics skills ourselves. We can just outsource that to people loyal to us.
We could make a tremendous difference by doing this; and access all sorts of resources in preparation for the apocalypse.
No we cant.
We are a big fish, not the only fish in the sea. Certainly not even the biggest. And the idea that the other factions will stand by and let us do what we will in a strategically important city like Chicago is implausible.

It's only good if the subject has existing skills that work well with the build.

The base powers are stuff like growing claws that match with standard melee weapons or spitting acid, with a cap of 2-3 powers at most. I'm sure there's something broken deep enough in the splats, but we don't control what they get and we can't assume everyone will get the most poorly written powers available to them.

A ww2 vet returned to their prime and given the right leverage could be a good mook, but slapping demons into random people off the street isn't going to get us much of use.
You dont use random people, obviously.
But there are very few WW2 vets that are any better than a modern trainee. And a modern trainee is not several decades out of date in competency.

Its frankly a lot easier to train mundane people to competency than to rejuvenate some old guy and keep that sub rosa.
We know how to train people pretty well IRL. And we're not short of people with combat competency running around by 2006: around 830k Americans served in Afghanistan, and over a million in Iraq.

All thhose things you mention are global level organizations. None of them could claim Chicago without infringing on the interests of others. Only a relatively independent minor(ish) freeholding lord could be allowed to take control of it. Molly, for all her power, qualifies, but would be... inconvenient to many.
Marcone didnt claim the whole of Chicago. Its crime, yes, but not the entire city.

He is a Freeholding Lord IN Chicago. Not the Freeholding Lord OF Chicago. When the Fomor War started, the Chicago Alliance operated in the city just fine, and was responsible for keeping most of the people here alive. Marcone contributed resources, but he didnt run things.

We fundamentally disagree here and won't see eye to eye on this. I am interested in giving Daniel power, and having Buffy season 1 adventures (but with higher power levels).
Yeah, vehemently opposed to that concept.

Im not voting to put Molly's baby brother out into the line of fire of Denarians and Outsiders and whatnot as fun.
Molly would be vehemently opposed to that IC, nevermind her parents.
There is no IC justification for such a thing.
She doesn't need to waste XP on half of that, and should instead work in-story to obtain those, thus earning XP. Your insistanse of wasting XP on effort-obtainable things is frankly bizarre.
She absolutely does.
Charms are not free. Backgrounds are not free. Abilities and Attributes are not free.
None of this shit is free. You dont get them for free in-story.

The QM is already being very generous in allowing us to make equipment and not have to pay XP for it on top of that.

No it's not. Not yet, at least on the supernatural side, and it's a side that matters. And Molly's presence in Chicago disrupts Odin's and Marcone's plans to set him up as such.
No it doesnt.
During the Fomor War, Marcone was canonically a freeholding baron in the city at the same time that the White Court had their interests, and the Chicago Alliance had their own interests, as did the svartalfar and the Twylth Tyg and others.

When Dresden came back as Winter Knight, and later became Wizard of Chicago, Marcone had no claim to exclude him or others from the city either.

When the Denarians came for his head in Small Favor, Odin didnt lift a finger. Didnt rush Einherjar or Valks to the city.
It was Dresden and the Knights that did most of the work. Dresden who raised the official complaint, Dresden and the Knights who did the rescue. His only involvement was Gard, who spent most of the book in a bed recovering from getting disembowelled.

Marcone becoming a freeholding lord required his help, but also Dresden's, and the White Court.

Im not sure how you got it into your head that its all Odin trying to make Marcone a power; there's no textual basis for his in canon besides Odin hiring forces out to him. If he was actively being supported by the All-Father, the Denarians wouldnt have been quite so cavalier about grabbing him in canon.
I'll take that bet, actually.
Always happy to take your money
:V

Humans have a soul, Souls can linger and become a ghost Soul = spirit.
That's not how any of this works.
Most ghosts in the Dresdenverse have nothing to do with souls; Dresden in Ghost Story was noted to be a very rare thing.
And an embodied soul is not a spirit.
 
Last edited:
No we cant.
We are a big fish, not the only fish in the sea. Certainly not even the biggest. And the idea that the other factions will stand by and let us do what we will in a strategically important city like Chicago is implausible.

That's an advantage, not a disadvantage. By taking over Chicago that allows us to draw those enemies out, gather focuses for our Crown to learn their weaknesses, and then destroy them.

It makes life easier for us as they'll come to us on prepared ground rather than us having to spend time and effort finding them and fight them where they're strong.
 
That's an advantage, not a disadvantage. By taking over Chicago that allows us to draw those enemies out, gather focuses for our Crown to learn their weaknesses, and then destroy them.

It makes life easier for us as they'll come to us on prepared ground rather than us having to spend time and effort finding them and fight them where they're strong.
There's quite a few factions who can destroy us as we currently stand, or deal unacceptable damage to our interests, intentionally or as collateral.
And even more who can simply pull aggro by repeatedly sending distractions at us.

Why would they come to us?
Chicago is a city of the United States, not an independent citystate in Faerun.
It does not exist in a vacuum.

I think we've done this argument before though. And I need to go get some work done.
 
Vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 28, 2023 at 10:55 AM, finished with 143 posts and 42 votes.
 
She absolutely does.
Charms are not free. Backgrounds are not free. Abilities and Attributes are not free.
None of this shit is free. You dont get them for free in-story.

The QM is already being very generous in allowing us to make equipment and not have to pay XP for it on top of that.
Backgrounds are, and should be abstracted as the results of IC actions. We are working towards getting a Dragon Nest background by restoring Last Station. We got Resources 4 background by creating Chicago synthetics. Buying backgrounds is wasteful and in many cases immersion breaking.

Yeah, vehemently opposed to that concept.

Im not voting to put Molly's baby brother out into the line of fire of Denarians and Outsiders and whatnot as fun.
Molly would be vehemently opposed to that IC, nevermind her parents.
There is no IC justification for such a thing.
You are free to vote against this, but you are wrong about Molly's IC reaction. Molly is aware that Daniel wants to fight together with Lydia and is training himself to participate in supernatural good fight. We have an AP option to help him train and encourage him. That's not "Molly will never go for it".
 
You dont use random people, obviously.
But there are very few WW2 vets that are any better than a modern trainee. And a modern trainee is not several decades out of date in competency.

Its frankly a lot easier to train mundane people to competency than to rejuvenate some old guy and keep that sub rosa.
We know how to train people pretty well IRL. And we're not short of people with combat competency running around by 2006: around 830k Americans served in Afghanistan, and over a million in Iraq.
You're missing the point. We already have plenty of minions who would be useful in a fight, but since we are unwilling to risk them they are in effect useless. The point of using False hope springs in a bunch of old vets is to get fighters that we are actually willing to risk.

But maybe we can get a bunch of military drones with cyber devils.
 
Last edited:
There's quite a few factions who can destroy us as we currently stand, or deal unacceptable damage to our interests, intentionally or as collateral.
And even more who can simply pull aggro by repeatedly sending distractions at us.

Why would they come to us?
Chicago is a city of the United States, not an independent citystate in Faerun.
It does not exist in a vacuum.

There are very few factions that could afford to invest the resources to do more than temporarily inconvenience us. Most of the major players are very constrained either by limitations on operating outside the Nevernever or because if they divert too many resources to oppose us their other enemies would take them down. If Marcone can become the Freeholding Lord of Chicago, we most certainly can, and do a lot better a job of it.

And if they don't come to us there's a very limited amount they can do to actually remove us from power. Sending distractions at us just gives us Crown focuses we can use to gather then information required to take them down. We've demonstrated twice now that we can trivially destroy some of the most powerful entities that can exist on Earth. With our ability to travel most places incredibly fast most factions that live on Earth are very vulnerable to being decapitated by us if they give us enough Crown focuses to locate their leadership.

Once we've utterly annihilated the second group foolish enough to challenge us, the rest should be deterred enough to realise that Chicago isn't actually that important to them.
 
Last edited:
Any efforts wasted on making Daniel combat viable could instead be used to raise up minions who have a much higher starting baseline, and without the potential drama and heartache if something bad happens to him when he's on a mission at our behest or if only due to our work empowering him.

I really don't understand the desire to power him up. Sure, it would be better if he wasn't a bog standard muggle, but specifically investing XP, time, and precious materials into him just seems like we're asking for trouble. He can wait until we have general minion empowerment abilities, IMO.

If we were to choose someone for deliberate empowerment, Olivia would be a much better option than Daniel. She's determined, highly focused, motivated to rise above what's she sees as potential victimhood, an adult in the eyes of society and the law, and she's already got an extremely effective power, one which would synergize extremely well with nearly any sort of boosts we could provide to her. And she's not Molly's beloved baby brother, so if she gets her head torn off or is eaten by a Demon, it will be a tragedy but not a potentially family destroying catastrophy.
 
Last edited:
Once we've utterly annihilated the second group foolish enough to challenge us, the rest should be deterred enough to realise that Chicago isn't actually that important to them.
We have actually already done that. First group was hell and second was a faction of the white court.
There's quite a few factions who can destroy us as we currently stand, or deal unacceptable damage to our interests, intentionally or as collateral.

I actually don't know who you are talking about.



Winter court: We have made inroad with them and they don't have a claim on the city anyway. Also we killed Eldest Fletch as our opening move.



Summer: Still no claim and well Eldest Gruff is a serious threat it isn't a overwhelming one.



Red Court: Busy with the white council war.

White court: we have made inroads with the leadership and if they try and mess with us they are within easy striking distance.
 
Last edited:
2)None of that.
We do not want a situation where people start looking at the fine print of agreements with us to see what loopholes we can exploit.
That does not serve us or the people under us.

We want to be clear about what we agree to, and what we dont.
Rules-lawyering the letter and not the spirit will come back to fuck us in the ass reputation-wise.
But uju is that literally the whole deal with supernatural heavyweights, even without being fey? Make the deal as tight as possible and if you don't explicitly trust the other person, be prepared for them to use loopholes to their advantage.

Reminding me of someone, I think it was you way back on topic, sounding the siren about it.
 
There's a lesson both Molly and players need to learn:

Characters have their own agency.
They will fight their own fights, even if you don't want them to.

Like when Harry went after the Naagloshi on his own, but simply didn't find it.
Like Daniel is about to.
Like Olivia so badly wants to.

They have the right to their own life and to risk it for what they believe in.

They want to fight. For their own reasons.

To protect their families.
Because they hate feeling powerless.
Because they feel like it's their duty.

They all have their own reasons, and just because they aren't as powerful as Molly is doesn't mean they can't fight.
Or even that they shouldn't.

They know how outmatched they are. They still want to.

It's not on us to tell them: No, you're too much of a scrub and will always be.

That's telling them they are helpless and will always be so.
At the mercy of those more powerful.

It's what all the monsters out there want them to believe.
 
Last edited:
I actually don't know who you are talking about.

With our Big Book of Yomi, and other questions we could ask using the various things we captured from Kakuri, we actually have some very valuable things we could sell the Jade Court in return for their alliance, so they're also very unlikely to cause problems.
 
There's a lesson both Molly and players need to learn:

Characters have their own agency.
They will fight their own fights, even if you don't want them to.

Like when Harry went after the Naagloshi on his own, but simply didn't find it.
Like Daniel is about to.
Like Olivia so badly wants to.

They have the right to their own life and to risk it for what they believe in.

They want to fight. For their own reasons.

To protect their families.
Because they hate feeling powerless.
Because they feel like it's their duty.

They all have their own reasons, and just because they aren't as powerful as Molly is doesn't mean they can't fight.
Or even that they shouldn't.

They know how outmatched they are. They still want to.

It's not on us to tell them: No, you're too much of a scrub and will always be.

That's telling them they are helpless and will always be so.
At the mercy of those more powerful.

It's what all the monsters out there want them to believe.
That's a very good point. The consequence of not giving Daniel power is not Daniel remaining safe. It's him going off on NeverNever quests to get the power on his own, without backup or equipment. Or doing something else stupid. Or ruining his life, or hurting Lydia quite a bit.

Same with Olivia and others.

Not unless we spend AP to Exalted-social him into not fighting, but at that point we might as well spend resources on making him equipped for the fight.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 28, 2023 at 10:55 AM, finished with 143 posts and 42 votes.
 
The vibe I got is "We're not unwilling, but we still do care for our family and want to bounce the idea off of them too."

Which hopefully comes across in the narrative. Certainly, I think Harvard would be a good place to start sniffing around for possible Exalt friends as well.
 
Arc 8 Post 45: A Wing in the Way
A Wing in the Way

18th of November 2006 A.D.

"That is a tempting offer in a lot of ways." Connections for days, not just with those who are themselves well connected, but the clever, the curious. For that matter with so many people going through the town at about the age talents would be just starting to stretch their wings it would be an even better place to start a support group for minor talents than Chicago. Then there is the obvious of course, being out from under your mother's gimlet eye. She's been getting better in recent months, but mostly about fighting necromancers and two flavors of vampire that do not go great together, not... well having fun.

The last time you went out dancing with Izzy was to distract yourself from the fact that you would be meeting Mab, less than three weeks ago but it feels like an eternity with everything that happened. Would Cambridge be any different, or would it be taking on more stuff to juggle on the fly in addition to the movie making company and the diamond-making company the Jade Dogs, the Last Station, training with Brother D? Well OK Training with Brother D is so you will not have to sleep so much so that should give you more time, but it does sound just a little crazy when you put it like that. "But I have to consider my options you know, for next year, talk with my parents."

As you watch for his answer carefully you half expect the old man to say something about how much grander and more important your choices are than what College you can go to, something a god of old would say, but he does not, indeed he does not say anything at all for a bit. Rather he extracts a small pipe from one of his suit pocket, a plain looking one or so it seems at first, but then you realize it had been carved from the petrified wood of some ancient forest, maybehap one sunk in some far off misty mire. it had is put to the task of containing the spark of fire from Donar's fingertips and a fragrant scent that is not quite like any tobacco you know.

Stoutly resisting the urge to make the a Gandalf comparison or to accuse Odin of getting high you wait for him to draw a puff or two then answer: "Consider this also then, the motives of Johann of Cleves were not near as mad as his methods. He wished to pull back the veil because it would draw the attention of the White Council, it was in essence a feint for all its bloody whimsy, but one the Council would not have been able to ignore if the whole thing had come to fruition."

"He was trying to distract them from something to do with the war?" You ask, aware that this is a hook of a sort baited with only the finest and most juicy of worms, but at the same time, worms are food for fish and knowledge is valuable for you so why not play along.

Smoke gathers and pools around him in a manner not quite natural, a white veil that softens the neon light above into misty twilight, leaving only his face and especially the cold light of his eye distinct. "He was acting on a strict timetable which implies a worrying amount of knowledge of the comings and goings of the Senior Council, with the ultimate objective of slaying Aleron LaFortier an old rival of his and the only one of their number who would be free to act at the time. By most accounts that could be the end of it, to the grudges of wizards time if oft only a whetstone, sharpening them all the more, but af Cleves was not as happy with the whole affair as you might expect from a man about to end a feud in blood, he was angry about what he was meant to do with the body." This is the first time he had dropped from perfect Midwestern accent English, but you are far too intrigued to follow on on why.

"And what was that?" you ask, leaning close in spite of yourself.

"I do not know, but it was something that had to be done on the grounds of the university something witch a madman would have found distasteful to do to the body of one of his worst enemies. A mystery for you perhaps."

Darn he's good, one has to admit that much, but you already said your part. With no further bribery or information forthcoming you finish up the last of the tests. After all you want these vehicles to stand up to mundane firearms not just magic, even if you are a lot more conficent you can predict how bullets and explosives will act than the array you had cast into that circle.

It is kind of like an abstract itch that neither the sound of gunfire nor RPGs can quell. It it like you had solved an arithmetic exercise in a dream then woken up and realized you only really know algebra. Still at least your customers seem happy. You don't think you have ever seen Monoc's people this jolly.

"I'd call it an early Christmas present but you guys paid me already!" you shout to the trio of burly gunners unwrapping modular guns very much in the spirit of the season.

Some chuckle, some roll their eyes, you would like to think the former outweigh the latter, but you do not count, just glad you had gotten this squared away.

***​

Alas the sisters are too busy to accompany you back, they had been called to some field of war far from Chicago. So you take the coach with blood red curtains in Old Piotr's company, down the mountain through the woods, a smoother ride than any mortal conveyance of its kind to be sure, but still far from smooth. Good thing you don't really feel pain anymore or bruise for that matter. The moon is out, larger and brighter than any mortal night can boast, around it shimmering the arcs of unfamiliar constellations. As you idly trace them with your mind and try to guess where they come from, what they mean your companion's head snaps suddenly up and to the right, eyes fixed on something much closer than the horizon. "That bird there, flying low among the trees, it's not from around here, a spy!"

You catch only a glimpse of dour brown feathers passing under the boughs of the pines and making itself one with their shadows, but it is enough to sharpen your sight, to see through shadows and beyond them into the twisting colors that all in darkness wear. You know this thing, you have seen its like before... shapechanger, poor slave of a worse master. Broken Seeker still has his eyes on you

Lost 2 Essence and 1 Willpower -> Now at 13/15 and 8/9 (HC ATB and Occult Excelency to be sure)

What do you do?

[] Fly out and capture it

[] Two can play it this game, try to trail it unseen, the spirits of this place are likely to help you stay hidden

[] Write in


OOC: For anyone wondering Molly topped up on Essence before returning to the Ways because why would she not she was doing it constantly as she was crafting.
 
Last edited:
You dont use random people, obviously.
But there are very few WW2 vets that are any better than a modern trainee. And a modern trainee is not several decades out of date in competency.
That was more meant as a topical example than anything else. Though loyalty is a factor here; someone we rescue from decline is more likely to stick with us than a random recruit.

The arguments around IDU generally drop us around using it on people without any meaningful skills on the presumption it'll somehow make them useful on any reasonable timescale.
She absolutely does.
Since when does being independent mean you have to be able to stomp on everything at a moment's notice? By your standards even Molly is barely qualified to go anywhere alone.

There's always risk but we're talking about an exalt, not a toddler.

That's an advantage, not a disadvantage. By taking over Chicago that allows us to draw those enemies out, gather focuses for our Crown to learn their weaknesses, and then destroy them.
They aren't hiding from us, drawing them out isn't exactly a big win.

Picking big obvious fights with the whole world at once isn't a strategy, it's a temper tantrum that kills people.
 
We have zero stealth, and are a beacon of dark power characterized to mystic senses as "a miniature Darkhallow".

[X] Fly out and capture it
-[X] Pay essence to activate Wind-Born stride to full power immediately
-[X] Activate MHM (Occult Excellency still active) and hold the bird; also prevent it from taking its own life by biting off its tongue and the like
 
Back
Top