Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Mab pretty much forced/strong armed them to do that. If we wanted to arrange that sort of thing we'd need to take the role of Mab and force people to sign them.
Initially, yes, but I'd like to point that Mab doesn't strongarm parties into joining the Accords at the modern day, and yet, canonically, people like Marcone elect to join on their own.
To expand a bit on why I think this is a bad idea:

When approaching this kind of situation you need to consider who's involved, how they know each other, the social inertia of their relationships, and the context they're informed in. You need to understand what they want, what they have, and how they prefer to bridge the gap. The more people are involved the harder this is to manage.

The problem here is multifaceted. Many of these parties are very alien to us and to each other, making their decisions more difficult to predict. Almost all of them hate at least a few of the others and are very comfortable using violence to express their opinions. At least a few have a remarkable tolerance for incredibly risky plans and a strong desire to destroy what little system there is to rule over the ashes.

The Red Court and the Fomor work with outsiders to target Winter and the Accorded Powers just to name two examples. Creating an international framework will involve handing information and access to people who will abuse it.

So what I think will happen is that getting them to do anything helpful collectively will be exceedingly difficult. If they do anything at all it's more likely to be a costly hindrance than anything else. Either very wyld hunt in nature or something annoying like "yes we should place limits on the exalted, starting with the one in front of us".

Anything we do make will immediately be full of people looking to take everything they can get for themselves, at least two factions of which have the express goal of killing everyone else involved and are willing to cheat in every way that they can physically manage because victory absolves them of consequences.
So, how do you address the issue of the exalted? Right now, the situation is:
1) At least some parties (Odin) are looking for exaltations, almost certainly with the purpose of making their own loyal exalts. At least some parties have a high chance of making it work.
2) At least some parties are capable of producing exalted akuma, as proven by the two held in Demonreach
3) Statistically, a new exalt is likely to be almost completely ignorant or to have a very warped view of supernatural world - its politics, laws and Laws, and underlying building blocks.
4) Killing an exalt is likely to result in an immediate appearance of a new exalt. Containing the shards is possible, but tricky, especially mid-combat

First two of my points mean that there is already an arms race in regards to producing your own exalts. The third point means that new exalt are both vulnerable to being grabbed by various factions, and may be ignorant enough to be a danger to the world. Shanking Archive with a spirit killer, calling the Calibration Gate to the Outside, raising a corpse of a dead god (or just tapping a large oil field with the same charm), or somehow breaking the world in some other way.

These are the issues that need addressing. As far as I can see the most constructive approach would be to ensure that all new exalts are quickly found, assessed in regards to being actively malicious towards Creation, and given some manner of comprehensive education in regards to supernatural world. The political powers should be kept away as the ignorant exalt acclimates.

Wyld Hunt is harder to organize than this, I feel.
 
Arc 15 Post 93: Upon the Scarred Mountain New
Upon the Scarred Mountain

14th of March 2007 A.D.

"Here," the voice is faint and backed up by the sighing of the wind that cuts even though the vial's seal, followed a moment later by the full blown roar as your companion breaks it, it had felt at once like minutes and like hours, though your inner reservoir of Essence informs you that it had been about an hour end to end before you are decanted in a small eddy of bleach onto the ice that had likely never seen its like

Regained 4 Essence.

"Oh," you look up and up and up along slopes that had been carved sharp as black stone handaxes, though great must have been the hand that dropped them. Great but not the least bit good. Here the desolation curls like a wyrm upon itself, guarding treasure none had ever been meant to find, great rents in the side of the mountain, long since stoppered over by the snow and ice, though yo your eyes it can do little to hide than it had been nothing as natural as fire and the rumblings of the earth that had caused it. "They say Typhon was bound under a volcano in Sicily, you would think ancient evils would slow a bit more imagination in their location."

Head tipped to the side as though to get a better look the Chosen of the Grave just looks at you.

"Not a fan of rhymes?" you ask lightly, or at least as lightly as you can manage.

"I do not know if they would have felt us, on the one hand it seems unlikely that any eyes would be on this side of the mountains, it's the hardest to climb but... magic often makes fools of men."

"We are quite noticeable and not just when we... shine." The last word feels inadequate, almost insulting to what you had seen of the anima of Deathknights, but you force yourself not to be too polished in your speech, that can come off as untrustworthy on its own and you are about to walk into battle.

"Would something that's been sleeping for so long really notice anything? "

It's clear the question is rhetorical, but as you start to climb towards the lowest of the rents on the mountain's flank you try to answer it. "Maybe, depending on what kind of eyes it has to see with."

A few minutes more pass in the ascent before he motions to something almost below your feet, a sign as strange as it is easy to notice even for your never-been-a-Girl-Scout self, footprints, dozens of them, set such that a spur in the rock protects them from the wind and snow, though even so they would be obliterated the moment the wind changed directions.

While this mountain is certainly creepy enough that you would not exclude the possibility that the wind's been blowing in the same direction for six thousand years or something, the more likely conclusion is that there are people here, recently come at that, booted feet not web-toed ones or any other mutation of the fomori. The problem of course is that for people who do not have the limitless stamina of the already dead or muscles that draw power from the cold itself this climb would need at the very least safety lines, pinons, an ice pick and yet unlike the snow nothing marks the stone.

Running your fingers along the stone you hit on something, a ridge, a line far too regular and looking up once more along the face of the stone you see it: a crude stone carving, almost to the point of caricature, as though someone had deliberately stripped the act of all artistry and beauty, depicting an enormous man, arms and legs splayed out, hair and beard splayed out as three smaller figures are are pulling at his extremities.

"Looks familiar?" the Venator asks, sounding frustrated that he couldn't name the scene himself, but you can only shake your head. The stories of the world are filled with accounts of smaller beings overtaking the larger, of younger gods overcoming the elder, that they speak of deeper truths you do not doubt, but the sheer breadth of such tales means that no single one comes to mind when faced with this.

Soon the trail of footsteps is lost to the wind though with its passing something lingers, a sense that you might not be as alone up here as you would prefer. Up and up you go....

Drip... drip... drip...

You hear it long before you can see it, the sound of water strange when you are so far below the freezing point that it is not even a memory, more a dream of balmy spring. Then see it you do and you would rather have not. It's an icicle, though not of ice, but blood, its color changing from black to red along its more meter length from an overhead ledge, eternally frozen, eternally melting into the snow. There's not a shadow of a doubt in your mind all of it is human, all of it innocent blood.

Approaching the... obscenity you notice an irregularity in its 'construction', lodged near the middle a darker shape that you at first take to be clotting in whatever arcane process had caused blood to behave like this, but on a closer look realize is a solid object, a small wooded cross. Maybe that's why its melting, in memory of some small act of defiance, of faith, here at the end of the sane and rational world.

More figures mark the walls, but these ones do not have a even the coherence of the one below, jagged blades and torn open bellies, cracked skulls and jaws torn loose, tongues still wriggling in them, until at last you reach the opening.

"Ladies first," your companion surprises you with a joke, though his smile would not be out of place on the face of a corpse.

What preparations do you take before entering the mountain?

[] Write in

OOC: Well if nothing else circumstances let me write in more of a lead on before we get to the heavy rolling. Hope you guys enjoy.
 
The supernatural powers don't think of themselves in any sort of collective sense, not even as loosely as humans do. At least we're all one species, fundamentally the same no matter how different our cultures get, growing up on one planet together however wide the world can be. Many of the different powers are as different as trees are from rattlesnakes, and come from places more wildly different than anything on earth.

It is all one creation that's under threat, but the feeling of distance still impacts the social inertia behind how people interact. That inertia is carried into everything they do.

This isn't a community, it's an ecosystem. These people can talk, but they're often more used to eating each other than working together. The first and in many cases only goal they'll have is their own power and profit.
0) What kind of thing? How do you envision the exalted accords? What should be in them? Because to me it should be something along the lines of "no deliberate creation of exalts unless in defense of Creation as a whole", "no soul trade with exalted", and "upon exaltation, exalts are to be provided a briefing on publicly available information about supernatural world, laws of magic, and why you abso-fucking-lutely shouldn't Call Calibration Gate to Outside".
1) 1>0. We got the council moving in the right direction.
2) How have we failed in our primary goal with dragonblooded? Th elder dragonblood already knew everything, and the whole conversation was basically a setup / test of how trustworthy Molly was. One that we passed.
0) If you get a bunch of people into a room and lay half of the potential options out to them the result will be everyone present using it as a checklist at least in part.

1) You and I argued about whether we should just offer the book or push for everything. I said that they wouldn't take it and too much at once would freak them out and make them shut down. We went with your plan and they reacted exactly how I said they would.

2) We went in to get the shard and your approach all but handed the whole thing to Odin wrapped up in a bow. We managed to pull back a bit and spin it into a relationship, but we didn't get what we wanted.

Just because something doesn't kill us doesn't mean it was a great idea, nor does being able to play the scenario out to get something from it mean it was ultimately successful.

We get something in spite of these plans you champion and then you go move the goal posts to suggest our conciliation prize is proof that they worked.

Unless you want to see exalted akuma of Anduriel soon, some manner of accords and agreements with regard to exalted is going to be needed. Remember - exalts are capable of selling their souls, and becoming akuma. Canon existence of Accords proves you to be wrong. And yes, I know that Mab forced them through initially.

We really, really don't want the various factions involving themselves in exalted arms race. Because there are forces out there, starting from Fae Mothers, and definitely counting denarians, that could, if allowed, arrange for specific people to exalt, and subvert those people into being living weapons of unparalleled might. We are already seeing the start of such a race - MIkaboshi was trying to enlighten people under assumption that we were one such enlightened person. Odin was and is directly looking for an exaltation (and chances are can arrange one to be bonded to a host loyal to him if he gets his hands on one). Denarians were in the process of corrupting / playing mind games with Azhi Dahaka when we interrupted them.
What I'm telling you is that there is no paper you can sign that will stop this. I also think it's far more difficult than you do for them to try this, and certainly more likely to backfire, but nobody who can do this will agree not to in a way that matters unless they get something more than they give for it regardless.

The vampire courts, fey, fomor, various hells, various spirit clans, none of them are going to politely sit on their hands to avoid risking a creation wide disaster. Some of those factions actively want to cause one to exploit the chaos.
You're trying to push a diplomatic effort on the international stage that doesn't account for the differences between and opinion of other nations, or even the nature of the stage you're standing on for that matter.
 
Initially, yes, but I'd like to point that Mab doesn't strongarm parties into joining the Accords at the modern day, and yet, canonically, people like Marcone elect to join on their own.
Some thoughts.

1: We don't know what Mab does off-screen in the modern day beyond the obvious. There is something to be said about momentum but the Accords establish customs that make it easier for supernatural societies to coexist. An Exalted Accords wouldn't establish this so the social pressure to join would be significantly less.
2: New supernatural factions popping up or being created is probably a rather rare thing. If it's a thing that just happens all the time we certainly see no signs of it.
3: Marcone is a human. I don't think Mab would care overmuch about what he gets up to. He probably isn't going to bring the supernatural to humanity's overall awareness and cause a war. His mindset wouldn't make negotiations difficult on a fundamental level as is the case with a lot of supernaturals that hate each others guts and don't operate logically. Mab knows Marcone and on some levels works with and has used him as a pawn for her plans. We know this from Skingame.

4: Strong arming people to sign something they don't want to sign requires making many more enemies with factions that are currently neutral to us, so should only be done after getting our defences firmly established like the Chicago God if we want to properly deal with the pushback, hostile responses and increased aggression globally. I imagine some factions would join each other to pushback against us making them do something that they don't want to do.
5: A lot of them won't just roll over and sign and some won't be open to being convinced in the first place. We will have to kill a lot of people, it would likely be time consuming in the extreme due to essence constraints and needing to track people down if they go into hiding, because even with the Crown travel time is a thing. Also because negotiations aren't instantaneous and could take days if not longer if we don't skip straight to compliance through violence.

6: We would probably have to spend favors on it and with the release of the Abyssals being as a obvious as it was the gain back of all of this is questionable when we'd probably notice more being released if nor do it ourselves, and respond fast as fuck anyway. More than one being released again seems unlikely to me but that's just speculation and we do know of one being attached to another.

7: The Red Court tried arranging for Molly and the Five Fold Courts to go to war with humanity. The Red Court don't seem to care about violating the Accords even with the threat of Mab. Even if people sign an Exalted Accords people are probably still going to violate it for all the trouble we'd take on to establish one.

Edit: Also thinking on it Mikaboshi signed the Accords which means some of the Fallen in hell other Yomi Kings may have which means we'd either need to get them to sign somehow or allow them a huge advantage the next time Exalts are released. Same with the Denarians who also signed.
 
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Anyone have any idea what this could be? I don't think it looks like Lovecraft at all in this location. It looks more like Black Feasting or whatever the act of devouring the divine power of the dead was called that the fallen Valkyrie wanted to use on Arvan...
 
1) You and I argued about whether we should just offer the book or push for everything. I said that they wouldn't take it and too much at once would freak them out and make them shut down. We went with your plan and they reacted exactly how I said they would.
Do you really think that if we offered the books only they would have accepted? Personally, I highly doubt that.
2) We went in to get the shard and your approach all but handed the whole thing to Odin wrapped up in a bow. We managed to pull back a bit and spin it into a relationship, but we didn't get what we wanted.

Just because something doesn't kill us doesn't mean it was a great idea, nor does being able to play the scenario out to get something from it mean it was ultimately successful.

We get something in spite of these plans you champion and then you go move the goal posts to suggest our conciliation prize is proof that they worked.
And if we went with your approach, Odin still would have gotten what he wanted, but we would have been expelled from the conversation for being untrustworthy and trying to play games. At least that's how I see it.
Anyone have any idea what this could be? I don't think it looks like Lovecraft at all in this location. It looks more like Black Feasting or whatever the act of devouring the divine power of the dead was called that the fallen Valkyrie wanted to use on Arvan...
Loki's imprisonment maybe?
 
Are we allowed to say we had certain potions on hand all along or would it nessecitate a dip to Sanctuary?

And can we craft some gear for Venator via TTC without risking discovery?

Sure, within reason. If something would only be useful in an Antarctic death fortress then you do not have it since Molly only decided to come here a few hours ago, but more general stuff sure.
 
Sure, within reason. If something would only be useful in an Antarctic death fortress then you do not have it since Molly only decided to come here a few hours ago, but more general stuff sure.
Thanks. On phone now, so can't really plan, but I think some healing potions and a dose or two of speed should be fine to prepare for speedy consumption, then anything we can do to up the survivability of our Abyssal companion.
 
@Yog Some other thoughts on the Exalted Accords prospect because I couldn't get it out of my head.

Additionally, sorry for the long post. I don't think it necessary, but I put my thoughts to paper as it were and wanted to post it.
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If you somehow manage to kill Mab, at much cost to your own forces, she gets replaced unless you do in the Mantle somehow. Noone, probably not even Molly, should be aware of the clone respawn mechanic, so their perception of us as a threat compared to Mab should be less insurmountable in this sense, which should factor in if trying to pull a Mab and make another Accords for Exalts.

This is the same woman that Butcher says the entirety of the Red Court would need to fight, at the same time, to even have a chance of killing. He wasn't talking about the armies of Winter when he said that, just Mab. Molly can't replicate that feat, because mote limitations. So the amount of enemies Mab makes to take a single action is far less of a concern for her, along with the number of fights she may have gotten into during, which lines up with her army fighting a seemingly endless stream of aliens from beyond the boundary.

With Butcher's statement in mind, what are the odds that Mab just straight up has effectively infinite power due to her Mantle? That is to say what if her rate of recharge is greater than her expenditure or due to mainlining the concept of Winter she can draw on an effectively infinite well of power even if she has a maximum rate of projection, as long as Winter doesn't get superseded by Summer?

And Butcher's statement aside, with the way DP has written other factions to be able to respond to Exalted, such as some Wizards being capable of lolnoping specific Charms, various others being able to resist them, like Murder is Meat, or the Sea God just dispelling our armor, I think there is enough indication of intention on his part, in regards to the power dynamics at play here, to assume that Mab, a character stronger than 99% of the setting, should have a bigger pool of power than a max of 18 essence and 9 willpower. In which case, threatening the supernatural world to establish the Accords would be a significantly less problematic for her because being mote tapped should never be a realistic concern.


Meanwhile we went into a boss fight with 2 motes while fighting only a single faction, the White Council traitors, and their Outsider sponsored champion(okay maybe that counts as two). One way to arrange for a scenario that could see us mote tapped, even while our enemies aren't specifically trying for it, is to fly around the globe poking bears and pissing off every other faction and bullying people for our own ends. Which is how that's going to be perceived. Since Molly is herself an Exalted and would be trying to set a standard for how others like herself (we already told Lara and the White Council, the various details are going to get out now) are responded to in making an Exalted Accords and since the last time some were released we ran around to meet them immediately. Responding violently to our approach doesn't have to make sense either, since factions may respond to perceived threats on basic principles that humans don't rightly get, or to save face etc.
Not to say that what we do when we leave Chicago can't already be perceived in that manner, but we haven't done it to literally every faction worth being recognized as one.



TLDR: Doing this would give quite a few factions a shared enemy that they were content to ignore or perhaps largely ignorant of before she got in their face. Then, we can't easily deploy troops in response to their own, unlike Mab, because even if we are fine with them getting offed, as happens in war, they can't exactly travel to and from, being bottlenecked by Molly, and they aren't even capable of leaving or entering the NN without assistance unlike a lot of supernaturals, unless we finally look into the chainsaw thing we snatched from Daedalus.

Then, because of Butchers statement, and the narrative so far, we can conclude that Mab has a much bigger battery at her disposal by herself, and or recharge rate, which makes being mote tapped not a concern for her. So while we should both be stronger than most of the setting only one of us could fight off a hostile response from a significant portion of it at the same time. Mab should also have had many favors to spend to help make the Accords a reality if need be. We have a much more limited stock of favors so it's much more of an ask for us to spend them on it. Especially for something that has so far only happened because of Uriel and the player character's direct actions.

Not saying it's impossible but I think you're underestimating what an undertaking it would be, simply because it's been done before, while forgetting the context of who pulled it off.. and also the fact that as we've seen, Accorded members will straight up violate the Accords anyway.
 
And if we went with your approach, Odin still would have gotten what he wanted, but we would have been expelled from the conversation for being untrustworthy and trying to play games. At least that's how I see it.

That's really not how the situation read when we were there.

Odin was playing games, and nobody was reproaching him anything at any point.

It is normal to hide this kind of information in a negotiation between supernatural parties in this world, doing it wouldn't have raised any eyebrows.
 
@Yog Some other thoughts on the Exalted Accords prospect because I couldn't get it out of my head.
Two comments:
1) Killing an exalt, unless you can contain or at least track their exaltation, is a worse idea than killing Mab. Most of the factions involved probably don't know that, but some might.

2) I think there's been a failure of communication on my part. That failure resulted in this statement:
Doing this would give quite a few factions a shared enemy that they were content to ignore or perhaps largely ignorant of before she got in their face.
The problem I perceive right now is that exalts, and I am willing to bet there will be more exalts, are already by default a shared enemy to pretty much everyone. They are, on average, too ignorant, dangerous, disruptive, and useful to just ignore. Somehow, an exalted armsrace needs to be prevented before it really starts.
It is normal to hide this kind of information in a negotiation between supernatural parties in this world, doing it wouldn't have raised any eyebrows.
Yes, and doing so would have left us on the outside, and dragonblooded not trusting us at all. Odin would still have gotten access to the shard, but we would have nothing.
 
1) Killing an exalt, unless you can contain or at least track their exaltation, is a worse idea than killing Mab. Most of the factions involved probably don't know that, but some might.

2) I think there's been a failure of communication on my part. That failure resulted in this statement
No it isn't. The next Mab should know how the last one died, if the Mantle doesn't let them know then one of the Winter Fae should. If you kill an Exalt they get replaced by someone who will probably have no idea what you did to the last one. Not to mention they'll be at E1 while Mab would have an entire army at her disposal upon respawn, whatever weapons the previous one still had access to etc. Meanwhile we don't know what happened to the Exalt before Molly and if Emma'O thought to or could've afforded to send more champions our way that fight earlier on could've went way worse.

The problem I perceive right now is that exalts, and I am willing to bet there will be more exalts, are already by default a shared enemy to pretty much everyone. They are, on average, too ignorant, dangerous, disruptive, and useful to just ignore. Somehow, an exalted armsrace needs to be prevented before it really starts.
Thats partly because your heavily biased where Exalts are concerned and infinitely more knowledgeable on what they are compared to the vast majority of the DF setting IMO. Though if this is your take on it people really aren't going to agree to leave them alone even if we take on the massive task of making them sign. Plenty will just do it to get us off their back then look into it after we expressed concern over it.

There is no "on average," there was only one Exalt in recent memory, us, before just now. The factions you are talking about, the entire supernatural community, have inhuman mindsets and values, at least a good portion of them. No particular reason to believe some won't just ignore them until they get in their face, especially since not everyone is automatically in the loop as to what's going on. Not everyone is pragmatic, ambitious, or responds to threats in the same way. I don't see any failure of communication, you are or were, talking about arranging Exalted Accords so I told you my take on how that would effect the player character's gameplay moving forward if we tried for it.

If something like that is going to happen you must be a bit of a control freak, for lack of better word, if you think we can somehow police an entire planet's worth of factions to stop them from responding in their own way. It's not very realistic, even Mab wouldn't be capable of it, as shown by the Reds attempt to break the Accords.
 
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Running your fingers along the stone you hit on something, a ridge, a line far too regular and looking up once more along the face of the stone you see it: a crude stone carving, almost to the point of caricature, as though someone had deliberately stripped the act of all artistry and beauty, depicting an enormous man, arms and legs splayed out, hair and beard splayed out as three smaller figures are are pulling at his extremities.

"Looks familiar?" the Venator asks, sounding frustrated that he couldn't name the scene himself, but you can only shake your head. The stories of the world are filled with accounts of smaller beings overtaking the larger, of younger gods overcoming the elder, that they speak of deeper truths you do not doubt, but the sheer breadth of such tales means that no single one comes to mind when faced with this.

Soon the trail of footsteps is lost to the wind though with its passing something lingers, a sense that you might not be as alone up here as you would prefer. Up and up you go....

Drip... drip... drip...

You hear it long before you can see it, the sound of water strange when you are so far below the freezing point that it is not even a memory, more a dream of balmy spring. Then see it you do and you would rather have not. It's an icicle, though not of ice, but blood, its color changing from black to red along its more meter length from an overhead ledge, eternally frozen, eternally melting into the snow. There's not a shadow of a doubt in your mind all of it is human, all of it innocent blood.
So, rereading, I am fairly sure this is Ymir, the trio depicted are Odin, Vili, and Vé. The blood is likely some manner of sympathetic magic based on how the seas were fashioned from Ymir's blood:
High relates that Odin, Vili, and Vé killed Ymir, and his body produced so much blood from his wounds that within it drowned all the jötnar but two, Bergelmir, who, on a lúðr with his (unnamed) wife, survived and repopulated the jötnar.[6]: 11 ​

Gangleri asks what, if High, Just-As-High, and Third believe the trio to be gods, what the three did then. High says that the trio took the body into the middle of Ginnungagap and from his flesh fashioned the Earth, from his blood the sea and lakes, from his bones rocks, scree and stones his teeth, molars, and bones. Just-As-High adds that from his gushing wounds they created the sea that surrounds the Earth.

Anyway, the vote:

[X] Plan Teamwork
-[X] Proxy Servant Protocol
-[X] All Things Betray
-[X] Equip Venator
--[X] 2 healing potions (2 dot recipes)
--[X] One speed potion
--[X] An electrolaser if we have one in DPM
-[X] STUNT: "For the record - you should be really, really careful about doing what I'll ask you to do right now" you say, extending you hand towards him in a symbolic gesture: "And now, please consent to me using my magic on you to improve our chances of survival"
--[X] "And also take this" you continue in his mind:, while handing him some of your alchemical produce "these ones are healing potions, pretty similar to how they are in video games, and this one will make you move twice as fast for a while, but may leave you exhausted later"
---[X} "Finally, here", you materialize an electrolaser in your hand, giving it to him handle first: "it's not exactly a blaster, but it's far closer than anything you can get on the planet"

Finally a good chance to use Proxy Servant Protocol
 
No it isn't. The next Mab should know how the last one died, if the Mantle doesn't let them know then one of the Winter Fae should. If you kill an Exalt they get replaced by someone who will probably have no idea what you did to the last one. Not to mention they'll be at E1 while Mab would have an entire army at her disposal upon respawn, whatever weapons the previous one still had access to etc. Meanwhile we don't know what happened to the Exalt before Molly and if Emma'O thought to or could've afforded to send more champions our way that fight earlier on could've went way worse.
Wen we seriously worried Mab was going to kill us (oh boy, those were the times), the IC idea Usum suggested was threatening her to her face that he'll remember and tell the next bearer of our exaltation. Past life memories, either internal, like the previous solar using Should the Sun not Rise, or external, like Whispers of the Neverborn, are a thing. And exalts regain their effective power far quicker than a new Mab would.
If something like that is going to happen you must be a bit of a control freak, for lack of better word, if you think we can somehow police an entire planet's worth of factions to stop them from responding in their own way. It's not very realistic, even Mab wouldn't be capable of it, as shown by the Reds attempt to break the Accords.
We can, if we convince them it's in their own best interest to do policing themselves and prevent anyone else from getting exalts. The trick is threading the needle between "we should try to prevent exalts from existing" and "we should get exalts as our living weapons". Both outcomes are unacceptable.
 
If you kill an Exalt they get replaced by someone who will probably have no idea what you did to the last one.
That's just not true. Without someone cleaning exultations they would know exactly who killed them last time if they found their last incarnations cause meritus or righteous they might just take up the same cause of killing the person that killed them they just will wait a bit longer.

Or be stealthier or create artifacts first to help them kill the person that killed them last time or any number of things because the memories of the celestial exalted are present incarnation to incarnation.

I do agree with the rest of your point
 
That's just not true.
I said Exalt and I said probably. Who killed the previous wielder of the one we now wield? Or is there an assumption that they weren't killed while wielding it?
And exalts regain their effective power far quicker than a new Mab would.
1) We don't know what rate Mab accumulates power and Exalt growth time varies.
2) The same questions to you as Degorium.

We can, if we convince them
Inhuman mindsets of varying kinds of which we have no experience with. Mab had tools that we don't have access to as I described. Even then people who signed disobey Mab. That's all I have to say since I'm just repeating points that haven't been addressed now.
 
I said Exalt and I said probably. Who killed the previous wielder of the one we now wield? Or is there an assumption that they weren't killed while wielding it?
I was assuming that because there was a proper Malfean demon still attached. Usum was a Neomah which kind of suggests deeply that this exaltation has been out of commission since the age of Legends. Most likey cleansed of the devil tigers memory but not their legacy.

While Usum was captured bodily and then Sealed in the seed of night for countless ages.

Which considering the name of the prison and the undoubted agony the first circle demon would have been in the entire time it was trapped in there if you told me with the Ebon Dragon I would believe you.

Edit: important note of clarification all Devil Tigers were/are inherently traitors to the Yozi. Heretical charms also make infernal traitors.
 
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…Hm. Well, that's a lot of lore that I need to mull over, now that I'm caught up again.

Blood icicles definitely add to the… atmosphere of the place. Deeply creepy.
 
And if we went with your approach, Odin still would have gotten what he wanted, but we would have been expelled from the conversation for being untrustworthy and trying to play games. At least that's how I see it.
Having private conversations is a basic diplomatic thing, not anything suspicious. Your approach had the Dragonblooded interrupt our discussion to agree to an offer from Odin before it became clear we could have made a bid. Your plan immediately backfired and we had to work our way out of it, which still wasn't fully successful.

I can't guarantee my plan would have worked perfectly, but it would have positioned us so that the elder dragon blood wouldn't have been able to enter a pact with Odin to give him what both of us wanted in exchange for killing a vampire we're hunting anyway before we got a chance to weigh in on it. Executed properly we could have saved a lot of trouble.

These plans struggle for the same general reasons; a lack of consideration on the means, motive, and initiative of other people. I'm sorry that I'm being abrasive about this, but it's very frustrating to keep tripping on the same things without adapting.
 
I can't guarantee my plan would have worked perfectly, but it would have positioned us so that the elder dragon blood wouldn't have been able to enter a pact with Odin to give him what both of us wanted in exchange for killing a vampire we're hunting anyway before we got a chance to weigh in on it. Executed properly we could have saved a lot of trouble.
No, most likely it would have resulted in us not being trusted, getting nothing at best, and politely asked to leave. The whole encounter was explicitely a test by the elder dragonblood and we only passed it by being as open and direct as we were. Your plan was, and I quote:
[] No trouble, I was just following up on a lead I got from the Summer a couple months ago now that I had a free moment, then my own curiosity, it is uncommon to see works of magic so deeply entwined with those of modern engineering (Try to flatter them)
Except that was a lie. And the elder dragonblood already knew way too much about the situation for it to have worked. She was evaluating us:
Ragnhildur says something else obviously directed at you... and just as obviously not in English. before she frowns and Essence shifts again around her. "You have shown yourself in cunning guise to the children of the dragon, but not with trickery, you have proven that you are strong but not a foe..." A language learning power, certainly more convenient than I do it "Be welcome on our land and in our halls as you please as we avail ourselves to some of the hospitality you showed."
The bolded underlined part is what we get for being honest and open. Because we were already in the red as far as trust goes due to showing up disgusted.
 
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