Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

You're conflating terms; essence the spirit substance and essence the exalted fundamental element aren't identical things.

WoD just recycles stuff, see how Malfean Neverborn have nothing to do with Malfeas or the Neverborn for a particularly egregious example of the same thing.

I dimly remember that the ExWoD books pretty directly says that the essence spirits' bodies are made of is Essence , somewhere like when talking about what Abyssals can consume to regenerate motes of Essence. I'm away from my computer at the moment and so can't check though.

And the charm specifically says it's the spirits' substance that is rendered down into motes, which to my mind is another way of saying its body. A WoD spirit can have its substance completely annihilated and still rebuild itself.
 
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@pkong in addition to what BronzeTongue said it's relatively cheap EXP wise for what it does for us. If we can trade a secret for it great. If not I'd rather wait and see.
 
It's not impossible that in our personal lab this could let us relativity reliably hit 20 successes, which is showing off even by exalt standards.
15 is showing off by exalt measure. 20 is probably "now you are just being ridiculous about this". Like, we started breaking out Old Realm which we still don't (shouldn't) know, and complaining about underlying mechanics of the current universe not working properly. Past 20 we are probably well into "the universe isn't work correctly. How do I patch the universe to achieve the effect I want?".
 
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I dimly remember that the ExWoD books pretty directly says that the essence spirits' bodies are made of is Essence , somewhere like when talking about what Abyssals can consume to regenerate motes of Essence. I'm away from my computer at the moment and so can't check though.

And the charm specifically says it's the spirits' substance that is rendered down into motes, which to my mind is another way of saying its body. A WoD spirit can have its substance completely annihilated and still rebuild itself.
I don't see it at a quick look, but they do have the ability to get essence from mortal blood. If we're inferring things from their kit that seems like something of a counterpoint.

From the exalted perspective everything is at some level Essence, you just have to work to get it back to a pure form. There isn't any particular reason to believe nevernever spirits are any less a degraded byproduct than mortal life force by that standard.

Not that I think that matters for MiM; the charm is for removing the deathless from play, so that's what it does. Exalted physics is very soft at the low level, arbitrary limits are a consequence of that just as much as being impossible to overcome in specific areas is a benefit of it.
 
I don't see it at a quick look, but they do have the ability to get essence from mortal blood. If we're inferring things from their kit that seems like something of a counterpoint.

From the exalted perspective everything is at some level Essence, you just have to work to get it back to a pure form. There isn't any particular reason to believe nevernever spirits are any less a degraded byproduct than mortal life force by that standard.

Not that I think that matters for MiM; the charm is for removing the deathless from play, so that's what it does. Exalted physics is very soft at the low level, arbitrary limits are a consequence of that just as much as being impossible to overcome in specific areas is a benefit of it.

Thing is, the canon ExWoD charm isn't for removing the deathless from play. It's a way of capturing spirits and the souls of people for later use. Not permakilling them is a feature not a bug for people who can get Devil Refining Cauldron. It's a higher essence and play and requires more charms; but the Infernal playstyle seems to be about corruption and conversion of the enemies' assets into your own, not destroying them.

But we've had this discussion before.
 
All Exalted can permanently kill the deathless. That is the core that all Exalted Shards are based on, an existence that can grow into a weapon capable of killing anything forever.

Solar, Lunar, Sideral, Dragonblood, Infernal, Abysmal, all the various powers, and ablities are just fluff add-ons to the shard, useful add-ons to be sure, but not the true core of what an Exalted is.
 
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Thing is, the canon ExWoD charm isn't for removing the deathless from play. It's a way of capturing spirits and the souls of people for later use. Not permakilling them is a feature not a bug for people who can get Devil Refining Cauldron. It's a higher essence and play and requires more charms; but the Infernal playstyle seems to be about corruption and conversion of the enemies' assets into your own, not destroying them.

But we've had this discussion before.
It's very clearly supposed to be a remove from play charm.

You don't get access to them after the fact unless you have your own hell, and that isn't mandated part of an infernal build or one with a timetable.

In combination it can be made to do different things, but the core function is clearly to get rid of people.
 
OK, vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 27, 2023 at 12:46 PM, finished with 98 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    -[X] Besides, if the world is going to change, then you have some ideas on how.
    [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    -[X] Stunt: They feel close already
    [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    -[X] And excitement. The battles to come might be terrible indeed, but they were always coming, the forces arrayed against Creation lurking Outside. If you get a chance to make new lifelong friends and to ensure that a new dawn comes? You can live with that.
 
All Exalted can permanently kill the deathless. That is the core that all Exalted Shards are based on, an existence that can grow into a weapon capable of killing anything forever.

Solar, Lunar, Sideral, Dragonblood, Infernal, Abysmal, all the various powers, and ablities are just fluff add-ons to the shard, useful add-ons to be sure, but not the true core of what an Exalted is.
Infernals get in e2 a very limited spirit-killer and never one to kill primordials.

It's clearly not an untouchable core.
 
Infernals get in e2 a very limited spirit-killer and never one to kill primordials.

It's clearly not an untouchable core.
Infernal charms are copies of Primordials, and apart from Autocron they cannot kill each other. But once the exalted start making their own charms, either by combining primordial charms with Heresy charms, or going Devil Tiger they will develop their own die forever charm.

Exalted will always eventually develop a die forever charm, developing such a charm is the core of what an Exalted Shard is. It might take a while, and an indvidual exalted might never develop it, but as a group Exalted will develop the ability to kill anything, no matter the fluff that flavors them.
 
They can't kill primordial with spirit-killer they learned from it, f. e. they can't kill Malfeas with malfean spirit killer, but could kill Cecelyn with it
No, that's wrong, unless you know a Charm other than this:

RADIANT FURY DISSOLUTION


Cost: —
Mins: Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Obvious, Shaping
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Green Sun Nimbus Flare


By the authority of the deposed King of the Primordials, the Infernal commands the universe itself to sunder a slain enemy into component motes. This Charm permanently improves Green Sun Nimbus Flare. Whenever a flare's damage is enough to kill a non-Yozi target, the surge of Essence spreads out from the wound like a bonfire doused with oil, growing exponentially brighter and hotter until nothing remains of the victim but glittering ash, a rising cloud of smoke in the shape of a fungal bloom and the victim's silhouette burned into the ground. Spirits can't reform from this demise, while Infernals with Essence 7+ can actually unravel the souls of beings with perfect reincarnation who normally resist permanent destruction, such as Dragon Kings and Jadeborn. However, not even Malfeas can sunder a Celestial Exaltation or permanently slay beings with Yozi-level immortality, such as Deathlords.
Anyone who sleeps within 100 yards of a victim's shadow experiences horrific visions of the victim that impose a one die penalty on rolls to regain Willpower upon waking. This radius contracts by one yard per century that passes until the being's Essence has been scattered to the reaches of eternity.
That Malfeas only sentences hated enemies to 10,000 years of suffering shows the upper limits of his magnanimity.
Bolding is mine.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 27, 2023 at 12:46 PM, finished with 98 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    -[X] Besides, if the world is going to change, then you have some ideas on how.
    [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    -[X] Stunt: They feel close already
    [X] Acceptance, you always knew you were going to be a target and you are working on getting allies in your own way
    -[X] And excitement. The battles to come might be terrible indeed, but they were always coming, the forces arrayed against Creation lurking Outside. If you get a chance to make new lifelong friends and to ensure that a new dawn comes? You can live with that.
 
Arc 8 Post 44: Of Flames Old and New
Of Flames Old and New

18th of November 2006 A.D.

You always knew you were going to be a target and it's not like you've been twiddling your thumbs all this time, you have been working on getting allies, building bridges. Maybe the one who stands before you now does not think much of the Jade Dogs building new lives for themselves unnoticed in the dark places of the city, of the Ordo Lebetis pooling their talents against common threats, of Olivia and her dreams of a more representative ordering of magicians or Isabela who will if you have something to say about it never have to consume the life of another person despite the demon she bears. Oh yes, I know change is coming, your answering look says to the immortal standing before you his suit now a bit more rumpled and stained with engine grease from all the tests you have been running. I aim to make some of that change myself.

He tips his head a little to the side, a touch of corvid nature from long association showing through perhaps then 'Donar' nods. "You know they say the first king was a lucky pirate. Scholars these days say it like giddy children, as though they had discovered something new about the world in seeing through the pretences of royal dignity and assumed divine patronage, but it is just the truth, the best way to carve out a place is by the sword and when you start cutting someone's going to scream. Chicago... Chicago's busy for a whole host of reasons some of which I can't talk about, some of which it's not the right time to talk about, but I will say this much there's as little room to grow in that city as a redwood in a rooftop garden. It might be time to start thinking about college. You're a bright one, brighter than this world has seen in a long time. I'm sure you can make it into Harvard."

"So Boston is less congested?" you ask cautiously, trying to feel him out as you absently buff a dent off the side of the nearest van door

"Boston is not a stone's throw away from the seat of the White Court while also being the place where the War between the White Council and the Red Court started and where the man who started that war happens to live..."

"Harry didn't..." you start, but he raises a hand, professionally manicured you suspect, but still showing callouses of sword and axe.

"That was not an accusation, he started it early, if anything he did Arthur Langly and the rest of his bellyaching lot a favor, not that you will hear them admit it, but he did start it, hence the eyes of powers are upon that city."

You start to nod, stop, realize all this had been... not quite a distraction, but a way to position himself on your side in an issue to give his next words more weight.

"I traced... Katrina," he spits out the word as though it burns his lips. "Back to Boston, traced her connections. Johann of Cleaves is dead and with him the threat to turn all that youthful vim and fire into actual fire. That is what he did you see, turn the metaphorical into into the literal. It was a very unique form of warlock's madness that left him surprisingly sane, or at least coherent for someone who had dabbled in black magic since before Columbus set out to the New World."

"So we are talking what? Spontaneous human combustion of the students?" you ask horrified.

"And anyone who read their inflammatory leaflets and then of course once fear set in you would have people shake themselves to death with its chill, using the natural pathways of emotion to transmit the curse. There is only so much that could be plucked from old Johann's skull once it had been removed from his shoulders, but he was aiming for exposure, something too big to be covered up entirely. "

"Why... Why didn't dad hear anything about this? When was this?"

"Two months ago almost to the day," comes the unflappable reply. "Far be it from me to say the plans of the One whom your father serves, but my guess is because it was being handled. The Knights are not called in to throw water over flames that are already being stomped out. Still I hope you understand now why Cambridge might need someone watching out for trouble. With the warkock removed there is a power vacuum in the area that you could take advantage of to set up, he had removed all other major players from the area and so far none have had a chance to set up. Monoc would be available to help deal with common foes and would offer favorable rates for those who are not common, in far greater strength than in Chicago given the local entanglements and certainly you might learn more than mortal scholarship." His single eye burns with the white of soulfire for an instant, the offer clear as it is manifest.

You catch more flies with honey... The old saw passes though your mind. You know mother would be ecstatic if you got into Harvard and it wold be nice to have some elbow room to yourself. None of what he said is untrue in letter or in spirit you are sure of it and you are just as sure of his motives, naturally align your interests and resources with Monoc's own to the point where you are a natural ally of the company and Donar Vadderung himself.

What do you reply?

[] Harvard sounds good

[] You are looking to stay closer to home

[] You are considering your options (may be taken as an invitation to sweeten the pot)

[] Write in


OOC: A reminder that Molly and company are not the only people making moves. If you had taken the option to ho look for Charity's family in Boston, which is opened by talking to her about it you might have ended up in the middle of that plot.
 
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[X] You are looking to stay closer to home

I have pretty strong opinions about this.
He says Chikago is crowded, I say taking a dense country is a better start than taking an empty one.

Nothing in the White Court can resist us with straight force and if we have time to work our superior dicepools we can get Lara under our sway while she still thinks she's manipulating us.

Besides that the Dragon's Nest and our gang there would be too valuable to give up so easily, before we have even profited from it.

When we take over a city, it should be one that has the eyes of the world on it and a high density of supernatural beings, who else will the world see the coming of our new age?
 
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Odin wants to send a social-specced Exalt looking for allies and connections to Harvard? Santa, you are the gift that keeps giving.

Give Molly a semester or two and she could probably instigate more than just spontaneous combustion in the learners there :D

The people who go to Harvard are either those who excel or those with connections, and both of those demographics are beneficial to Molly's plans of enacting grand-scale social/political/technological change.
 
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[X] Harvard sounds good

We've been wanting to move for a bit, so it seems like a good opportunity, and it's not like the actual physical distance is a barrier for Molly, The Great Lakes Water Way connects the two locations believe it or not.
 
[X] Why not both? I could be convinced to commute, but maybe not to move entirely.

[X] You are considering your options (may be taken as an invitation to sweeten the pot)


There is a water connection between Harvard and Chicago. We can hop into Lake Michigan and walk out of Charles River moments later.
 
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[X] Harvard sounds good

Might be good also we could probably return home using our hell, so there shouldnt be any problem
 
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