They pretty much have to have come from the Cathay research lab, that is the closest by a long shot, maybe they could have had a later migration from other of the others the way the Old World did, but my bet is the first layer of habitation is from CL
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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They pretty much have to have come from the Cathay research lab, that is the closest by a long shot, maybe they could have had a later migration from other of the others the way the Old World did, but my bet is the first layer of habitation is from CL
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
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- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
That might explain why Verena has a justice aspect, while Hoeth does not. They gained it while Asuryan was gone, and returned it to Him when He returned as the head of the elven pantheon, but since the gods of Humans don't have a clear Asuryan analogue, Hoeth/Verena retained that aspect in their lands.
Hence why I said could fight against the empire and hypothetically win. Not would win
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Point me to one bit of evidence that there's some sort of 'always on' mindhole arcane mark then.
Oh let me guess. 'The Ulgu dragons stole your proof' again.
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Edit, real talk, most [all] of what I know of WHF comes from this thread, and if wind-dragons are an actual thing in the games' lore, then I sincerely hope that there's no mention of any 'Ulgu dragons'.
Just text that discusses 'Wind dragons' and give a list of seven different types as if that covers all the possibilities, just ignoring the fact that it doesn't mention Ulgu.
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That's an interesting idea, and it might fit Asuryan's relationship with Hoeth:
In human tradition the sword of Verena symbolizes the importance of action and not just hoarding knowledge, but in elven tradition (or at least Eonir tradition, but I think also in Asur tradition according to canon) Hoeth is passive, in large part because Asuryan forces him to not act. Could this symbolize Asuryan forcefully taking back his domain from Hoeth? One of the myths even says that Asuryan's main punishment of Hoeth happened in response to the creation in Great Vortex, which is to say in response to Hoeth's action during the coming of Chaos.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
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- Who knows?
"Dragons that use a specific type of Wind" exist in canon lore, although not quite in the same form as here. It's one of those things where the writers leave it as a small sidenote and the fans massively elaborate and expand upon it.
Ulgu-using dragons are not known to exist in canon, only Aqshy, Shyish, Azyr, Hysh and Ghyran, leaving out Ghur, Chamon and Ulgu. I prefer to think that they exist but just aren't mentioned because GW does that sort of thing constantly, pull out new stuff that wasn't mentioned previously, but lots of people interpret it as a deliberate absence.
Could go either way. On one had those could be just be the product of those winds not having obvious breath weapons (what would a beast-dragons use, swarms of insects?) and they created the dragons based on ideas for types of dragons they had and changed them to fit the winds rather than the other way around.
It might also be because dragons are already apex beasts that love gold, so what're you going to do, have beastier or more gold loving dragons?
- Location
- Greece
Also, to add to that, stalemating/defending is very different from winning. Vlad only lost because he went to the offensive. If he were to fortify, he would probably still be around. Similarly, the Skaven didn't lose, they just could not win.
There are various reasons for this: one is morale, being sent to a murderblender tends to break it and that is truer for Skaven than it is for humans, while being backed into a corner with no other option but to fight means you are giving 120%. Another is that both humans and Skaven have many irons in the fire, so a thorn is much lower priority than a threat, and they are both prone to letting resource sinks fester and focus on bigger issues if they cannot just steamroll them. A third is that the defending side has the advantage of fortresses and knowing the terrain well enough for Guerilla warfare.
In the end, stalemating someone as the defending side, while not necessarily an easy feat, is a much, much, much easier feat than actually becoming an existential threat to them. People seem to forget that, and often treat it as a pure "who is stronger" where a draw means they are of equal strength, but warfare does not work that way.
It's similar to Dieter vs the Colleges, in a way.
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Ah, but if multiple people know the secrets of Dhar they're going to keep each other in check.
Mutually Assured Destruction barely works in our world, and nukes are a lot more expensive and harder to obtain than a fistful of Dhar. Nukes also don't drive the people who posses them mad with a supernatural sense of meglomania.
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- New Brunswick, NJ
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- New Hampshire
Nah, the Liber Mathildus is about destroying your employer's sanity, not your own.
I mean...
Haha, you fell into my trap, because I specified "supernatural" for a reason! Nuclear weapons operate solely within the realm of natural physics, but Dhar has no such restraints.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Reading through the discussion, and it occurs to me: do you need a population of humans to exist in an area to give rise to a population of beastmen, or is there a source of 'pure' beastmen that can arise with no concept of civilization at all?
Thinking about the southern continents, which are apparently full of beastmen but have no humans in them, and trying to square that with beastmen being mutated humans and domesticated animals. Maybe there were humans there and they got wiped out?
Otherwise we might have a genuine beastmen civilization arising in the places where they have no enemies to compare themselves to.
Thinking about the southern continents, which are apparently full of beastmen but have no humans in them, and trying to square that with beastmen being mutated humans and domesticated animals. Maybe there were humans there and they got wiped out?
Otherwise we might have a genuine beastmen civilization arising in the places where they have no enemies to compare themselves to.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
So, I had a wonderful idea for future turns. You see, people want to set coin to Protector for Elfcation. That is a good idea. But I don't think it is a good idea to negotiate with Ulthuan for passcodes to waystones on the same turn. Cause there is a better side of the Coin for such negotiations. Father, to be precise.
You see, while we are sure that Haletha is one of Ranald's daughter, we do not know of the other. The closest candidate people suggested is the Lady, no matter how crack-y such theory sounds. But there is a good way to check this: by going to damsels with the coin set to Father. But we can also confirm another thing about the Lady on the same Father turn: is she Lileath? Cause, as someone has already pointed out, Tower of Hoeth dedicated not only to Hoeth, but also, de facto, to Lileath. And who would know the passcodes, if not the Loremasters of the Tower?
As such, we simply put coin to Father on the same turn as we go to Damsels and Ulthuan, allowing us to check for several things, and potentially solving diplomatical issues for us: elves are far more likely to give us the passcodes if they think we are trustworthy, and we can probably extract more concessions out of Bretonnia if Damsels think we are on the level.
Downsides are not that big, and potential gains are immense. So, as a follower of a god of luck, I say we risk it.
You see, while we are sure that Haletha is one of Ranald's daughter, we do not know of the other. The closest candidate people suggested is the Lady, no matter how crack-y such theory sounds. But there is a good way to check this: by going to damsels with the coin set to Father. But we can also confirm another thing about the Lady on the same Father turn: is she Lileath? Cause, as someone has already pointed out, Tower of Hoeth dedicated not only to Hoeth, but also, de facto, to Lileath. And who would know the passcodes, if not the Loremasters of the Tower?
As such, we simply put coin to Father on the same turn as we go to Damsels and Ulthuan, allowing us to check for several things, and potentially solving diplomatical issues for us: elves are far more likely to give us the passcodes if they think we are trustworthy, and we can probably extract more concessions out of Bretonnia if Damsels think we are on the level.
Downsides are not that big, and potential gains are immense. So, as a follower of a god of luck, I say we risk it.
if someone makes a plan that does that it got my vote
IIRC, you can also get them from animals. And beastmen have a civilization, it's just one defined by being rejects, being at the bottom of the chaos totem pole (which plays into the first part, because even chaos rejects them), and generational trauma.
Compare that places like Norsca, where they're just part of normal society. And the beastmen down in the southern continents probably have a society quite a bit like Norsca, or the nomads we met going to Dum. It's a place shaped by the presence of Chaos, and therefore some real nasty sides, but probably not defined like the old world beastmen are. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there's powerful factions who pay lipservice at most, because sanity is a powerful advantage. Chaos doesn't seem very good at building complex, organized societies. It's telling the Chaod worshipers live on the edges you generally don't want to live in, even if there was evil magic coming in. It's tundra and steppe and frozen coastlines. And the people who managed to push into better territories (the gaspodar) stopped worshiping Chaos.
I'd rather use the Protector to earn gratitude and shinnies from the greatest Ulgu killers on the planet, than take a side trip and hope that a group of mages who live in a tower dedicated to Hoeth* miraculously trust us with a great secret.
*Who is also probably the elf version of a Goddess that we have beef with at the moment.
*Who is also probably the elf version of a Goddess that we have beef with at the moment.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
Our plans do not contradict each other. Trade with Ulthuan and Elfcation are separate actions.
Thinking about getting Druchii books about Dhar.
We know the first 2 secrets of Dhar and specifically the second secret is great to counter any Dhar based magic.
With the Druchii being experts on Dhar they must know a possible Third Secret of Dhar to counter the Second or otherwise they would get countered by the Asur easily.
Or, otoh, the Asur don't know the Second Secret and it'd be very valuable information we could give them in exchange for something (and to fuck with the Druchii).
Also considering the elves less instinctive approach to Magic (they're not chiselhands) I feel we could acquire Dhar books from the Druchii and sell them to Ulthuan, that way they could study how the Sorceress cast and counter their spells.
Ah, I misunderstood, I thought you wanted to do both on the same turn.
Even then, I'd still rather use the Deceiver, and do a trade with the druchii action on the same turn. There's no guarantee that we'll speak to a Lileath worshipper—it's more likely that we'll speak to an ambassador, who'll then go and shake the secrets out of the Tower for us.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
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- They/She/It
Yes, but this is why also propose to, on the same turn, to fo shake down Brettonia for goodies, cause The Lady is the only candidate for the second daughter that has been proposed with anything resembling good arguments. As such, even if Ulthuan action will end up not needing it, we can still get valuable information on whether the Lady is the second daughter.