Honestly? "The Warriors of the Enemy emerge from beneath you" would be an asset right now, because the Troll-Men are clearly part of its pawns--if they want to attack us on our home ground? Well, that's better than chasing them.

The real question is 'Can the Enemy just magic new forces into place or does it have to use what it already has?'
 
I think were rushing into conclusion's here, just because can pull on debts (if that is indeed what its done) doesn't mean thats all the avenues available for retaliation it has.

We need to be completely sure about this and be at our best because if were wrong evryone die's.
 
Also, don't we need to show the crossbow or whatever to the dwarves, in order to confirm they've got grievance against Horra?

Sadly, it doesn't do that. It's of dwarvish design, but that just means the dwarves are selling him weapons, not that he's sending stuff back to them. It's relevant for us because he was giving it to bandits, but it doesn't actually mean he's helping the dwarves in and of itself beyond paying them for the design.
 
Alright, it sounds like the consensus is to maybe not do Cultivation Class yet? Or at least that opinion is very divided. Same seems to be true on troll-hunting. Hmmm.

Alright, I'm gonna whip up, I guess four plans and we'll just see which wins.
 
Alright, it sounds like the consensus is to maybe not do Cultivation Class yet? Or at least that opinion is very divided. Same seems to be true on troll-hunting. Hmmm.

Alright, I'm gonna whip up, I guess four plans and we'll just see which wins.
To be clear: I'm on the "don't do classes yet' side.

I'd suggest one fight against enemy assets. Any we can take out now are not a bother anymore when we go to kill Horra.
 
EDIT: Additional note: Long after these plans were written it was strongly suggested by the QM that teaching anyone about cultivation is probably going to lead to an immense escalation for the Enemy and is thus probably not a good idea for our health or longevity. So...keep that in mind when voting.

[X] Plan Cultivation Class

-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (Write in)
--[X] Talk with Sten about reforging Stigr's broken sword (using Forged Iron if it wasn't already) and assist with the runework
--[X] Add to it the same runes we have on Sagaseeker (they were gifted as a pair, this is appropriate, and the benefits are excellent for an archer forced into melee)
--[X] Invest 1 Odr into the sword to awaken its spirit, along with 24 Orthstirr for +4 successes on the runework
-[X] (Personal) Spend time with...
--[X] Tryggr and Trausti
--[X] Thank them profusely for their aid in defending our family
--[X] Try and make friends with them and learn more about them, make them part of the group
--[X] With Abjorn and likely everyone else, the idea here is to make them part of the group, which involves the whole group.
-[X] (Personal) Spend time with... (again)
--[X] Stigmar, Stigr, Aki, Abjorn, Tryggr and Trausti
--[X] Have the rest of our allies on guard, as we expect this may trigger an attack (likely from below...we're probably on the second story for this, with Sten and Steinarr on the first)
--[X] Explain, as best we can, how cultivation works and the context of the Enemy
--[X] Make particular note of how dangerous this is and all the traps we've discovered and the ways around them we've found (cultivating at home the first time, for example).
--[X] Specifically, we'll follow Alectai's procedure here with the additional specific note in Step E that you need to weave together Virthing and Saemd to do the procedure.

Training:
-[X] (Rolled)
--[X] Train Kindle-Spinner 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Ember-Winged Cloak 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Campfire 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Hamr itself 5d6
--[X] Undo our internal nalbinding (leaving 10 pockets for now no matter how well we roll) 15d6
-[X] (Research)
--[X] When investing Odr into Hugr and Composure we will take extensive precautions...Sten, Steinarr, and Abjorn will be there, Sten will chain us up, and then Abjorn will bear-hug us from behind to hold us in place. We will be completely unarmed (work-knife included). This should also determine if Odr-infused Composure helps with Frenzy.
--[X] Try to use only part of our Standstill Hugareida (about half) for Inertia-Arresting Throw and see if we can then still use Halting Vortex. Do the same with Mire Ward as well. 1d6
--[X] Try storing Orthstirr in some of the pockets in our soulscape that aren't being used for Frenzy 1d6
-[X] (Blackhand's Training) Try to develop old/train new hugareida tricks
--[X] Train Halting Vortex 1d6
-[X] (Training) Tricks
--[X] Train Recall 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hamr (29 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hugr (21 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Hugr itself 1d6
--[X] Train Housecraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
--[X] Train Weaponcraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
-[X] (Training) Fylgja (5 success to rank up)
--[X] Train Fylgja Itself 1d6

Orthstirr:
-[X] (Orthstirr Usage)
--[X] 3 Orthstirr to Hamr
---[X] 3 Chop, 4 Defend, 4 Dodge, 4 Glima, 3 Bash, 3 Pierce, 3 Throw, 3 Cut, 3 Farmwork, 3 Labor, 3 Overland (36 total)
--[X] 2 Odr and 4 Orthstirr to Hugr
---[X] 5 Artcraft, 5 Armorcraft, 3 Barb-Tongue, 1 Odr and 3 Orthstirr to Composure, 6 Housecraft, 3 Management,4 Scouting, 4 Silver-Tongue, 3 Strategy, 3 Tactics, 4 Weaponcraft, 4 Wordplay, 5 Wildcraft (52 total)
--[X] 1 Orthstirr to Fylgja
---[X] 3 Command
--[X] 1 First Impression
--[X] 40 free for tricks


Okay, so, this one is us doing a Cultivation Class. Pretty straightforward.

[X] Plan Troll-Man-Killing

-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (Write in)
--[X] Talk with Sten about reforging Stigr's broken sword (using Forged Iron if it wasn't already) and assist with the runework
--[X] Add to it the same runes we have on Sagaseeker (they were gifted as a pair, this is appropriate, and the benefits are excellent for an archer forced into melee)
--[X] Invest 1 Odr into the sword to awaken its spirit, along with 24 Orthstirr for +4 successes on the runework
-[X] (Personal) Spend time with...
--[X] Tryggr and Trausti
--[X] Thank them profusely for their aid in defending our family
--[X] Try and make friends with them and learn more about them, make them part of the group
--[X] With Abjorn and likely everyone else, the idea here is to make them part of the group, which involves the whole group.
-[X] (Troll-men Reprisal) The sinkhole where your house once sat, does it lead anywhere?
--[X] Bring a bunch of people with us. Steinarr probably stays home and Aki would likely be asked to help guard the place as well (as his fylgja will have issues underground), but Abjorn, Stigr, Stigmar, Tryggr, Trausti, and Sten would likely come along. We'd tell Halfdan as well.

Training:
-[X] (Rolled)
--[X] Train Kindle-Spinner 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Ember-Winged Cloak 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Campfire 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Hamr itself 5d6
--[X] Undo our internal nalbinding (leaving 10 pockets for now no matter how well we roll) 15d6
-[X] (Research)
--[X] When investing Odr into Hugr and Composure we will take extensive precautions...Sten, Steinarr, and Abjorn will be there, Sten will chain us up, and then Abjorn will bear-hug us from behind to hold us in place. We will be completely unarmed (work-knife included). This should also determine if Odr-infused Composure helps with Frenzy.
--[X] Try to use only part of our Standstill Hugareida (about half) for Inertia-Arresting Throw and see if we can then still use Halting Vortex. Do the same with Mire Ward as well. 1d6
--[X] Try storing Orthstirr in some of the pockets in our soulscape that aren't being used for Frenzy 1d6
-[X] (Blackhand's Training) Try to develop old/train new hugareida tricks
--[X] Train Halting Vortex 1d6
-[X] (Training) Tricks
--[X] Train Recall 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hamr (29 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hugr (21 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Hugr itself 1d6
--[X] Train Housecraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
--[X] Train Weaponcraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
-[X] (Training) Fylgja (5 success to rank up)
--[X] Train Fylgja Itself 1d6

Orthstirr:
-[X] (Orthstirr Usage)
--[X] 3 Orthstirr to Hamr
---[X] 3 Chop, 4 Defend, 4 Dodge, 4 Glima, 3 Bash, 3 Pierce, 3 Throw, 3 Cut, 3 Farmwork, 3 Labor, 3 Overland (36 total)
--[X] 2 Odr and 4 Orthstirr to Hugr
---[X] 5 Artcraft, 5 Armorcraft, 3 Barb-Tongue, 1 Odr and 3 Orthstirr to Composure, 6 Housecraft, 3 Management,4 Scouting, 4 Silver-Tongue, 3 Strategy, 3 Tactics, 4 Weaponcraft, 4 Wordplay, 5 Wildcraft (52 total)
--[X] 1 Orthstirr to Fylgja
---[X] 3 Command
--[X] 1 First Impression
--[X] 40 free for tricks

This is us not reading people in, but instead going to kill Trolls.

[X] Plan All The Reprisals

-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (Write in)
--[X] Talk with Sten about reforging Stigr's broken sword (using Forged Iron if it wasn't already) and assist with the runework
--[X] Add to it the same runes we have on Sagaseeker (they were gifted as a pair, this is appropriate, and the benefits are excellent for an archer forced into melee)
--[X] Invest 1 Odr into the sword to awaken its spirit, along with 24 Orthstirr for +4 successes on the runework
-[X] (Troll-men Reprisal) The sinkhole where your house once sat, does it lead anywhere?
--[X] Bring a bunch of people with us. Steinarr probably stays home and Aki would likely be asked to help guard the place as well (as his fylgja will have issues underground), but Abjorn, Stigr, Stigmar, Tryggr, Trausti, and Sten would likely come along. We'd tell Halfdan as well.
--[X] Do this before we have our cultivation lecture.
-[X] (Personal) Spend time with...
--[X] Stigmar, Stigr, Aki, Abjorn, Tryggr and Trausti
--[X] Have the rest of our allies on guard, as we expect this may trigger an attack (likely from below...we're probably on the second story for this, with Sten and Steinarr on the first)
--[X] Explain, as best we can, how cultivation works and the context of the Enemy
--[X] Make particular note of how dangerous this is and all the traps we've discovered and the ways around them we've found (cultivating at home the first time, for example).
--[X] Specifically, we'll follow Alectai's procedure here with the additional specific note in Step E that you need to weave together Virthing and Saemd to do the procedure.

Training:
-[X] (Rolled)
--[X] Train Kindle-Spinner 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Ember-Winged Cloak 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Campfire 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Hamr itself 5d6
--[X] Undo our internal nalbinding (leaving 10 pockets for now no matter how well we roll) 15d6
-[X] (Research)
--[X] When investing Odr into Hugr and Composure we will take extensive precautions...Sten, Steinarr, and Abjorn will be there, Sten will chain us up, and then Abjorn will bear-hug us from behind to hold us in place. We will be completely unarmed (work-knife included). This should also determine if Odr-infused Composure helps with Frenzy.
--[X] Try to use only part of our Standstill Hugareida (about half) for Inertia-Arresting Throw and see if we can then still use Halting Vortex. Do the same with Mire Ward as well. 1d6
--[X] Try storing Orthstirr in some of the pockets in our soulscape that aren't being used for Frenzy 1d6
-[X] (Blackhand's Training) Try to develop old/train new hugareida tricks
--[X] Train Halting Vortex 1d6
-[X] (Training) Tricks
--[X] Train Recall 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hamr (29 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hugr (21 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Hugr itself 1d6
--[X] Train Housecraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
--[X] Train Weaponcraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
-[X] (Training) Fylgja (5 success to rank up)
--[X] Train Fylgja Itself 1d6

Orthstirr:
-[X] (Orthstirr Usage)
--[X] 3 Orthstirr to Hamr
---[X] 3 Chop, 4 Defend, 4 Dodge, 4 Glima, 3 Bash, 3 Pierce, 3 Throw, 3 Cut, 3 Farmwork, 3 Labor, 3 Overland (36 total)
--[X] 2 Odr and 4 Orthstirr to Hugr
---[X] 5 Artcraft, 5 Armorcraft, 3 Barb-Tongue, 1 Odr and 3 Orthstirr to Composure, 6 Housecraft, 3 Management,4 Scouting, 4 Silver-Tongue, 3 Strategy, 3 Tactics, 4 Weaponcraft, 4 Wordplay, 5 Wildcraft (52 total)
--[X] 1 Orthstirr to Fylgja
---[X] 3 Command
--[X] 1 First Impression
--[X] 40 free for tricks

And this is doing both. Maybe biting off more than we can chew, but maybe not...

[X] Plan Rest And Recovery

-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (Write in)
--[X] Talk with Sten about reforging Stigr's broken sword (using Forged Iron if it wasn't already) and assist with the runework
--[X] Add to it the same runes we have on Sagaseeker (they were gifted as a pair, this is appropriate, and the benefits are excellent for an archer forced into melee)
--[X] Invest 1 Odr into the sword to awaken its spirit, along with 24 Orthstirr for +4 successes on the runework
-[X] (Personal) Spend time with...
--[X] Tryggr and Trausti
--[X] Thank them profusely for their aid in defending our family
--[X] Try and make friends with them and learn more about them, make them part of the group
--[X] With Abjorn and likely everyone else, the idea here is to make them part of the group, which involves the whole group.
-[X] (Poetry) Try to realize an Inspiration
--[X] The Ironbrother
--[X] Invest 1 Odr into the attempt, and spend 24 Orthstirr on 4 extra successes

Training:
-[X] (Rolled)
--[X] Train Kindle-Spinner 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Ember-Winged Cloak 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Campfire 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Hamr itself 5d6
--[X] Undo our internal nalbinding (leaving 10 pockets for now no matter how well we roll) 15d6
-[X] (Research)
--[X] When investing Odr into Hugr and Composure we will take extensive precautions...Sten, Steinarr, and Abjorn will be there, Sten will chain us up, and then Abjorn will bear-hug us from behind to hold us in place. We will be completely unarmed (work-knife included). This should also determine if Odr-infused Composure helps with Frenzy.
--[X] Try to use only part of our Standstill Hugareida (about half) for Inertia-Arresting Throw and see if we can then still use Halting Vortex. Do the same with Mire Ward as well. 1d6
--[X] Try storing Orthstirr in some of the pockets in our soulscape that aren't being used for Frenzy 1d6
-[X] (Blackhand's Training) Try to develop old/train new hugareida tricks
--[X] Train Halting Vortex 1d6
-[X] (Training) Tricks
--[X] Train Recall 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hamr (29 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 1d6
-[X] (Training) Hugr (21 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Hugr itself 1d6
--[X] Train Housecraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
--[X] Train Weaponcraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten)
-[X] (Training) Fylgja (5 success to rank up)
--[X] Train Fylgja Itself 1d6

Orthstirr:
-[X] (Orthstirr Usage)
--[X] 3 Orthstirr to Hamr
---[X] 3 Chop, 4 Defend, 4 Dodge, 4 Glima, 3 Bash, 3 Pierce, 3 Throw, 3 Cut, 3 Farmwork, 3 Labor, 3 Overland (36 total)
--[X] 2 Odr and 4 Orthstirr to Hugr
---[X] 5 Artcraft, 5 Armorcraft, 3 Barb-Tongue, 1 Odr and 3 Orthstirr to Composure, 6 Housecraft, 3 Management,4 Scouting, 4 Silver-Tongue, 3 Strategy, 3 Tactics, 4 Weaponcraft, 4 Wordplay, 5 Wildcraft (52 total)
--[X] 1 Orthstirr to Fylgja
---[X] 3 Command
--[X] 1 First Impression
--[X] 40 free for tricks

And this is deciding to do neither while we rest a turn and attempt to recover Orthstirr (hence the Poetry).

All four versions have crafting Stigr a new weapon, which seems necessary if he's coming with us troll-man killing, and very good even if not. Three of the four also have working to get to know the Twins better...I think this is important. Right now they have a fairly neutral opinion of us, and we need more loyalty than that, I think.

For Training, this obviously invests heavily in undoing our mistake, as well as a bit into Hamr and continues training things we've been working on otherwise. The only real new thing is spending a single die on attempting to learn Recall. We've been recently reminded that not having it might be something we'd regret and that seems like a GM hint, so let's invest a little bit into that.

I'm not very sure about the 'storing orthstirr in pockets' research topic and could switch it out (in all four) if people wanted, but I'm very sure of the other one (we need to know if we can combine IAT or Mire Ward with Halting Vortex).

There are four plans here basically because I have no idea what's right in terms of actions (I think this is correct in terms of Training). I may change my vote to only be for one or two of them later if someone presents a really compelling argument.
 
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We should likely take steps to secure ourselves for the Hugr infusion, and that's hard to justify without at least disclosure.

So I think...
[X] Plan Cultivation Class

That being said, I'm open to arguments, I'll also likely give this a look-over later to see if I missed anything.

Actually, on that note, what do we need to join the Dwarves on their own raid?
 
[X] Plan Cultivation Class

To be honest, I just think the Enemy gave the Witch the opportunity to use her debt in exchange for something, and she agreed, given how she obviously has no problem screwing us over as long as she can benefit from it, rather than the Enemy taking control of the debt and somehow weaponising it.
 
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[X] Plan Troll-Man-Killing
[X] Plan Rest And Recovery

I am really not a fan of cultivation class. Especially with both Horra still around and the trolls just now. Reprisal is a must, yes, but its social thing, and the trolls also count as paws of the enemy.
Sharing the cultivation just feels too much of a bait after just a probing attack, no matter that it almost got our family as collateral.

Although...
@Imperial Fister does Halla still feel that warning like last time?
 
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You do not. The reason why is currently unknown.
....well, fuck it, then, we ball, i guess. but as i said, it STILL feels like gigabait.
Not to mention our friends also will be on the list of debt keeping and such.... and dont forget that they will also try cultivation, so more probing attacks incoming.

[X] Plan Cultivation Class
[X] Plan Troll-Man-Killing
[X] Plan Rest And Recovery
 
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Well, the biggest gain it's received is that we're now obligated to retaliate against the Troll-Men for this bullshit, which limits our ability to interfere with Horra's bullshit.

Troll-man retaliation can happen in its own time, no?

Also, I feel like the piles of troll-man dead might reduce the intensity of that need.

Also also, I feel like Steinarr has been kind of wanting a place to vent rage for a little while.
Except how does that work? The Enemy clearly doesn't actually have a monopoly over Cultivation or else advancement would actually be impossible, not just difficult.

"You told people so now I have the right to fuck you up in turn" doesn't make sense. It seems more likely that it exploits an already existing Debt to retaliate if someone discloses, but we should be in the clear right now.
It's possible that it exploits violations as well as debts... and it's somehow managed to get "telling people this stuff" to count as such a violation.

The greater thing is that in telling them, and helping them cultivate up, we bring them into the world of people who get targeted directly. I think this is worth it - accepting stagnation for fear of the Enemy is just letting it win - but it is absolutely a thing.
 
[X] Plan Troll-Man-Killing

Another fight may not be interesting, but we need to take the pieces of the board.
<edit>
[X] Plan Rest And Recovery
may not take enemy pieces of the board, but still doesn't cause a huge reveal party worth of trouble.
</edit>
I'm not very sure about the 'storing orthstirr in pockets' research topic and could switch it out (in all four) if people wanted, but I'm very sure of the other one (we need to know if we can combine IAT or Mire Ward with Halting Vortex).
It is exploring the soulscape part of cultivation, which imho is pretty interesting.
My last plan had a bunch of researches we could try if you want an alternative.
Or we could try getting started on something like Kindlespinner that tries to be as bright (and maybe loud?) as possible to disorient enemies (and hurt light sensitive enemies like trolls or dwarves). But that would be trick training which only has results.
 
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Right, I'm committed to the reveal, so I want to lay it out.

A) Our Huskarls, Stigr, and Aki are invited to the reveal. Tryggr and Trausti put their lives on the line and sent out the warning, and Gabriel did his part to protect the kids, they deserve to have the context for our Struggle.
B) Before we begin, a warning. "Right now, you're on the periphery, once I proceed, you're going to be part of a conflict that I have been told was "Ancient when the first rains fell." What we experienced was the machinations of the opposite side, but that happened because you were close to me. There is no obligation for you to listen in, but once you hear what I have to say, you're going to be part of it too, because the Adversary is going to add you to their List, just like I found my way on it when I discovered something it wants hidden from us as a people. Ultimately, you don't need to know any of this to live a fruitful life, but out of respect, I'm giving everyone a chance to decide if they want to go all the way."
C) When everyone's made their decision, let's begin. "I don't know the full context myself, what little I know comes from my own studies, and a certain inheritance from my grandfather and namesake--Hallr Blackhand. I'll keep the specifics of that inheritance to myself for now--simply because I do not know the full scope of the Enemy's ability to listen in and I want to keep it guessing. Regardless, there is some... Dark force that serves to keep us as its unwitting thralls, utilizing sorcery and secrets as its weapons, to ensure that the only paths available to us as a people are those which it desires. The Foemen who attacked myself and Abjorn were among its agents to deal with those who were not so easily deterred--and they were in league with the Troll-Men who assaulted our home by their own words.
D) One of the means through which the Enemy seems to maintain control is concealing the true potential of our people from our eyes. I have discovered a way past the first wall, to open up a further path to grow. I'm willing to tell you the method, at which point I should be able to speak on the details of it, without it flying from your mind. Though be warned, while I think I've discovered a reasonably safe method, Power Requires Sacrifice--in this case, it is to make a gamble with the Fates, using your life as collateral. Do not attempt any of these methods alone, and always have someone on hand to help wake you from the shock. The first time you employ it is the most dangerous by far--but attempting it within the boundaries of a Farm is safer from my studies, if less fruitful.
E) The method is actually quite simple. When your Orthstirr is already full, stoke your Aspects further, Virthing and Saemd specifically, and then when you feel confident in your ability to endure, invoke your Frami and bring them together. There Will be a shock, and if you fail to regain consciousness before your power is exhausted, you will suffer a True Death. But if you can endure, it opens the gate to a new Realm--most of the odd things I've been able to do recently have been from my explorations of this. But any time I've tried to explain it to you directly, it just flew from your minds on the spot.
 
A) Our Huskarls, Stigr, and Aki are invited to the reveal. Tryggr and Trausti put their lives on the line and sent out the warning, and Gabriel did his part to protect the kids, they deserve to have the context for our Struggle.

I'm down with this if other people are. We don't know them super well (which is what the 'getting to know them' action was intended for), but they are oathbound to us.

Right, I'm committed to the reveal, so I want to lay it out.

The rest I can definitely add to the plan easily enough (I'll probably just say 'Following Alectai's procedures here' and link the post).

Everyone else cool with those changes? Particularly the adding of the twins, as the rest is mostly just clarification and expansion.
 
Oh boy, this plan you folks seem to have settled on... Yikes.

I can't tell you anything more then that a lot of big assumptions have been made.
 
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