NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 10, 2023

KreenWarrior said:
I don't think that applies because there's no stakes to this fight. In a real fight, go all out, but this isn't one.

There certainly are stakes. Us winning is much more likely to earn Gabriel's respect and does a significantly better job of properly avenging the insult he committed by hitting us. It's not a fight we need to win in the sense of dying if we lose, but it's not without stakes.

We don't need to go all out using every dirty tactic, but handicapping us to the tune of nearly 1/3 of our usable orthstirr (after maxing our dice pool) out of some sort of paranoia is deeply excessive.

True-Gnome · Mar 10, 2023

[X] Plan Measured Offense

Shard · Mar 10, 2023

I wonder if we can also develop 'Focus' in addition to our Orthsirr? Having a constant supply of power in addition to our other stuff would be pretty good.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 10, 2023

Shard said:
I wonder if we can also develop 'Focus' in addition to our Orthsirr? Having a constant supply of power in addition to our other stuff would be pretty good.

I don't think we can practice multiple forms of cultivation simultaneously very well, especially those requiring fundamental differences in world view and religion. However, there's been repeated references to the Norse system being somewhat wasteful and undeveloped in some ways, so I'd say that eventually figuring out an equivalent is theoretically possible...but it'd be a very long term project indeed.

Sirrocco · Mar 11, 2023

There's some interesting implications here, for this world, under the surface.

- Cultivation is fundamental to the human experience. A norseman (or norsewoman) literally cannot usefully pursue self-improvement without orthstirr. If you have zero orthstirr, then any attempt to learn any skill is meaningless. It doesn't matter how long you train in a weapon. It will avail you not. You can exercise physically, and grow muscles, but without orthstirr to fill that Hugr, it will not actually make you stronger in any meaningful way.
- By extension, if your cultivation technique does not support something, then you cannot become capable at that thing. If your cultivation technique does not support the skill of deception (for example) then you cannot get better at lying.
- By extension, everyone cultivates. Now, the Norse take this to an extreme, as they have just about every male and some of the females going heavy into warrior cultivation, but cultivation in this world is both easy to do at a basic level and straight-up mandatory if you want to ever be competent at anything. Jerasmus has a cultivation technique of some sort. How do we know? Because he's not utterly inept at everything.
- This makes thralls weird, since I seem to recall that Thralls were unable to possess orthstirr... and yet having all of your thralls be functionally incompetent seems bad. @Imperial Fister?

- Your cultivation technique is your culture. It grows directly from your culture and beliefs, and it directly shapes your culture and beliefs. A knight cares about Sin because Sin is a Meaningful Thing for their cultivation technique... and it's a Meaningful Thing because part of exercising this cultivation technique is internalizing a worldview where Sin is significant and matters. Certainly it is possible to refine the technique a bit, but any significant adjustments are going to come with adjustments in culture as well. Further, when you get things like the Christians coming to convert you, they're looking to change the cultivation technique that you use as well as the manner of your worship. The two are inextricable intertwined.
- This is why you cannot practice two cultivation techniques at the same time. You'd have to fully buy into the cultural values of two different cultures, and they'd clash. At the same time... well, syncretism is a thing. I'm quite certain that it's a thing in this world as well, and one that probably has some really interesting implications. Like, I'd bet that you could adapt some fo the techniques of other cultures... if you could find a way to re-frame them so that it would make sense in your own context and fit neatly into your own worldview. They'd probably be altered in the process, but the results might well be useful.

In general, we've seen two different cultivation techniques at this point, and they seem to have some pretty significant parallels. Each has an idea of how one is supposed to behave and how one is supposed to live, and what it looks like when You're Doing It Right. Those things make you stronger. Each has a certain kind of faith, and when that faith is broken your cultivation collapses. Effectively, when you no longer hold the principles of your cultivation technique in your heart, it stops aiding you. Each has a sort of short-term violation (Sin vs Nid) that can damage your cultivation, and a means of repairing that violation. I don't know for sure, but it seems at least plausible that those kinds of ingredients are true for all forms of cultivation - just differing between cultures and cultivations what stands in for each thing.

Huh. If syncretism actually works as a useful way to adapt and improve cultivation techniques, then wizard-owl could wind up being super-useful over the (very) long run. Like, in order to improve what you've got, the first step is seeing what everyone else is doing, and if there's anything useful there for you to steal. Basically, if we want to keep Norway from converting to Christianity, the first step is going to be making sure that the Viking cultivation technique is better than what the Christians are peddling... or at least competitive. Otherwise, people will convert just for the upgrade.

TheCount · Mar 11, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
"Any advice for me?" You whisper near-silently as you take your position on the other side of the field. Your view of him is a little bit blurry around the edges, but nothing too bad.

Is that an after effect of the hit or dod Wizard owl already got Halla's eyes in advance, without bringing us spells?

Imperial Fister said:
'Knights are one of the greatest foes any Norseman can hope to face. Fortunately, this is not a Knight, this is a Squire. Their strengths lie in their replenishing supply of power and the vast depths of their continuous combat training, but if you are able to break their Focus, then they are little more than livestock lead to the slaughter. Going for a sprint will result in you meeting the full weight of their power while attrition will lead to a slow and painful death. You must strike a steady balance if you hope to win, press him hard, but don't exhaust yourself doing so.'

So, Knights probably have some kind of battle trance or method to tap into faith that's second nature for them, but Squires still need to master it... but both of them have wast battle training + "holy" armor for the Knights.
Probably all that worship being channeled into the Knights, Priests and other roles like that...
Makes you wonder what the Devil's/Satan's worshipers tap into...

Constenanto said:
Huh, so like, until a Squire's Focus (whatever that is) is broken, they'll constantly replenish their power? Not sure if I understood it correctly, but it sounds like we're set up to lose if we don't break his Focus, as he could just make it a battle of attrition like Hallr said. Except we weren't told how we actually break their Focus, or at least we weren't told anything substantial.

I think I'll let someone else come up with a plan, I'm at loss right now besides 'keep hitting him and hope it breaks his Focus'.

yeah, probably... can't really go for an all out unless we are sure we can overwhelm them and attrition favors them with their unending power source.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
-[X] Tap frami, virthing, and saemd (+36 Orthstirr)

Was already pointed out, but you point is good too, this being the last fight this turn...
But it would still be a good idea to go into spars like they are not the last fights. Would get us into the habit of not taping Frami, Virthing and Saemd unless its "Go time" easier.
Even if going all out on the only fight in the turn is better to finish it fast, but bad habits are not good to develop.

I.F. Ister · Mar 11, 2023

Sirrocco said:
- This makes thralls weird, since I seem to recall that Thralls were unable to possess orthstirr... and yet having all of your thralls be functionally incompetent seems bad. @Imperial Fister?

You get a thrall because you need/want extra hands around the farm to do dumb labor, not because you want skilled workers. If you want skilled workers, then you hire farmhands or learn it yourself.

And there are differing levels of thralldom too. A loyal thrall that was born into the role like Randi is going to have way more freedoms then a freshly shackled thrall like Gabriel. The orthstirr Randi has is meager even by women's standards, as being the thrall of somebody who does cool stuff is the only way she can gain it, but it's enough for her to get by. A shackled thrall doesn't even get that, thanks to the shackles.

Hamr 1 is average human to top level athlete. Hamr 2 is peak human and beyond. You don't need more than Hamr 1 to watch the hearthfire or plant seeds in the ground. You guys haven't encountered any non-cultivators yet, which should help to put things into perspective.

With regards to the rest of the post, I love it. The only thing I'll say is that you are mostly-right. All cultivation systems have 3 things in common; Power, Physical, and Non-Physical. How Power is gained and used and what Physical and Non-Physical mean all differ from system to system, though similarities may arise. Not even dice are consistent across all systems.

TheCount said:
Is that an after effect of the hit or dod Wizard owl already got Halla's eyes in advance, without bringing us spells?

Wizard-Owl. You haven't had a chance for your fylgja to bring anything to you, yet.

TheCount · Mar 11, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
Wizard-Owl. You haven't had a chance for your fylgja to bring anything to you, yet.

Damn, its acting fast...
Guess we need the perception/scout training quicker than expected.

Shard · Mar 11, 2023

I think it was suggested we insult Gabriel to break his Focus, but what about the opposite? Talking about everyday life and his past and such might just be as equally effective as breaking his Focus, especially in combat. Use of Silver-Tongue in that manner might be enough.

Omegahugger · Mar 11, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
There certainly are stakes. Us winning is much more likely to earn Gabriel's respect and does a significantly better job of properly avenging the insult he committed by hitting us. It's not a fight we need to win in the sense of dying if we lose, but it's not without stakes.

I don't know about the first one, Gabriel doesn't seem like the type to respect the daughter of the guy who slaughtered his kinsmen and put him in chains just because said daughter is stronger than him.

If anything it'd make it worse as it either highlights that Halla is eventually going in her father's footsteps or rubs in how Gabriel is nowhere near strong enough to keep his loved ones safe from raiders and thralldom.

Gabriel is a Christian, he doesn't have the same set of values that Halla does.

Sirrocco · Mar 11, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
And there are differing levels of thralldom too. A loyal thrall that was born into the role like Randi is going to have way more freedoms then a freshly shackled thrall like Gabriel. The orthstirr Randi has is meager even by women's standards, as being the thrall of somebody who does cool stuff is the only way she can gain it, but it's enough for her to get by. A shackled thrall doesn't even get that, thanks to the shackles.

...which begs the question of how he was even able to hit us, let alone do damage. Like, Halla's walking around with Hamr of 4, Defend 3, Dodge 2, and something in Glima. It seems odd that "random unpowered schmuck" could take a swing at that and have any chance of it landing, let along "Your head snaps to the side, mind reeling at the speed." So... the shackles apparently aren't doing but so much to limit him?

Actually... I suppose that's on-brand for Christianity and how it spread in the real world. Christianity has no problems with empowering the oppressed underclass. A few quiet talks with a priest, a furtive baptism in a nearby river, and you too can have a cultivation technique that works, no matter how poor you get. It's purely off of your own faith and virtue and good works, and no one else can take it from you. That's both a really tempting offer on a micro level and a massive engine for social upheaval on a macro level.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 11, 2023

Sirrocco said:
- Cultivation is fundamental to the human experience. A norseman (or norsewoman) literally cannot usefully pursue self-improvement without orthstirr. If you have zero orthstirr, then any attempt to learn any skill is meaningless. It doesn't matter how long you train in a weapon. It will avail you not. You can exercise physically, and grow muscles, but without orthstirr to fill that Hugr, it will not actually make you stronger in any meaningful way.

I'm not sure if this is strictly true for everyone. It's true for the Norse, but I'm not clear that it's true for non-cultivators of other cultures. There's definitely a cap to the competence of such non-cultivators, but I'm not sure they're trapped at only a single die in everything the way a Norseman with no orthstirr is.

Relatedly, I'm also not sure all cultivation methods involve investment in the same way at all. For example, I'd bet good money that in at least some of them, investment of their resource into a stat or skill is, or at least can be, permanent rather than temporary which might well have a number of knock-on effects to their cultivation and how it works.

I do generally agree with all the rest of your points for the most part, though.

Sirrocco said:
...which begs the question of how he was even able to hit us, let alone do damage. Like, Halla's walking around with Hamr of 4, Defend 3, Dodge 2, and something in Glima. It seems odd that "random unpowered schmuck" could take a swing at that and have any chance of it landing, let along "Your head snaps to the side, mind reeling at the speed." So... the shackles apparently aren't doing but so much to limit him?

We actually only 'walk around' with Hamr 4 (at least in our home territory when feeling safe...that may change going forward, but it was true for this incident). We have the rest, but without orthstirr invested they do nothing. A true surprise attack like this contends only with that. But also, I definitely agree that he's not as completely depowered as a Norseman would be in his situation. The manacles clearly do something, but I'm pretty sure it's not complete.

My suspicion is that, at least for a knight, some of those 'permanent investments' I was talking about in combat are very much a thing. So even with manacles he's walking around with his full Hamr equivalent and physical skills, with only his ability to use Trick-equivalents or invest it temporarily actually shackled.

Sirrocco said:
Actually... I suppose that's on-brand for Christianity and how it spread in the real world. Christianity has no problems with empowering the oppressed underclass. A few quiet talks with a priest, a furtive baptism in a nearby river, and you too can have a cultivation technique that works, no matter how poor you get. It's purely off of your own faith and virtue and good works, and no one else can take it from you. That's both a really tempting offer on a micro level and a massive engine for social upheaval on a macro level.

I'm not sure that's quite how it works. It's possible, but unconfirmed. Personally, I suspect that while they cultivate through faith, Christians must perform acts of faith to do so meaningfully (they'd all be Catholic at the moment, or I guess Greek Orthodox...salvation by works rather than salvation by faith alone would be the watchword of the day), which may be difficult as thrall, and that many of their powers would still be restricted were they manacled.

And a lot of cultivation techniques also work regardless of being poor. Even Orthstirr (which is elitist-ish) merely requires you to be free and become famous, for example...it's easier for someone wealthy, but by no means impossible for even a very poor freedman, and thralls could in fact be freed in various ways, which would presumably let them cultivate.

TheCount said:
Was already pointed out, but you point is good too, this being the last fight this turn...
But it would still be a good idea to go into spars like they are not the last fights. Would get us into the habit of not taping Frami, Virthing and Saemd unless its "Go time" easier.
Even if going all out on the only fight in the turn is better to finish it fast, but bad habits are not good to develop.

I'm pretty sure not giving our full effort here is just throwing the fight. Gabriel is not an easy opponent we can afford half measures if we want to beat. I agree we should be careful using all our orthstirr gain options in a single fight, but we need to analyze whether we need to do so in order to win the fight as part of that, and I think we do.

Omegahugger said:
I don't know about the first one, Gabriel doesn't seem like the type to respect the daughter of the guy who slaughtered his kinsmen and put him in chains just because said daughter is stronger than him.

If anything it'd make it worse as it either highlights that Halla is eventually going in her father's footsteps or rubs in how Gabriel is nowhere near strong enough to keep his loved ones safe from raiders and thralldom.

Gabriel is a Christian, he doesn't have the same set of values that Halla does.

He may have a different set of values but, generally speaking, a warrior is gonna respect honorable victory in a fair fight. Like, if we beat him with a dirty trick or beat him and then mocked him afterward, I don't think he's like us any more, but if we beat him in a straight fight and treat him honorably afterward I think that wins more respect than losing.

Sirrocco · Mar 11, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
And a lot of cultivation techniques also work regardless of being poor. Even Orthstirr (which is elitist-ish) merely requires you to be free and become famous, for example...it's easier for someone wealthy, but by no means impossible for even a very poor freedman, and thralls could in fact be freed in various ways, which would presumably let them cultivate.

Oh, Orthstirr is pretty egalitarian in some ways. The norse seem generally happy to see people rise up from nothing to become great warriors, f they do it in the right way. The thing is, though, that orthstirr is one of the systems where it's possible to deprive people of their powers. Put a man in chains and claim him as a thrall, and you've stripped those powers from him. Hit him with a nid or two and prevent him from striking back by whatever means (perhaps because you're just that much better than he is, and you're just styling on him that hard), and you can do real damage to him... and so forth. Knee him in the balls hard enough, and you can destroy his soul (except for that little bit that you instead eat and digest). By contrast, Christian cultivation wouldn't be like that. Indeed, "endure oppression and misery, while never letting go of your faith" is the sort of thing that probably has long-term benefits for a Christianity cultivator. Like, you might not get much orthstirr-equivalent, but it probably does good things for your drengskapir-equivalent.

Then you take that principle to lands that aren't so egalitarian, and I imagine that there are places where peasants basically just don't get to have meaningful cultivation of any kind. Places like that are ripe for missionaries.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 11, 2023

Sirrocco said:
Oh, Orthstirr is pretty egalitarian in some ways. The norse seem generally happy to see people rise up from nothing to become great warriors, f they do it in the right way. The thing is, though, that orthstirr is one of the systems where it's possible to deprive people of their powers. Put a man in chains and claim him as a thrall, and you've stripped those powers from him. Hit him with a nid or two and prevent him from striking back by whatever means (perhaps because you're just that much better than he is, and you're just styling on him that hard), and you can do real damage to him... and so forth. Knee him in the balls hard enough, and you can destroy his soul (except for that little bit that you instead eat and digest).

It's definitely true that orthstirr is a more external resource than some of the likely alternatives.

Sirrocco said:
By contrast, Christian cultivation wouldn't be like that. Indeed, "endure oppression and misery, while never letting go of your faith" is the sort of thing that probably has long-term benefits for a Christianity cultivator. Like, you might not get much orthstirr-equivalent, but it probably does good things for your drengskapir-equivalent.

Then you take that principle to lands that aren't so egalitarian, and I imagine that there are places where peasants basically just don't get to have meaningful cultivation of any kind. Places like that are ripe for missionaries.

This is true to some degree, but it goes back to what I was talking about in terms of salvation by works. Most Christians are referred to as 'not cultivators' (whatever that means exactly), which means the actions one needs to take to become a Christian cultivator on a meaningful level must be pretty extreme acts of piety. Getting a baptism and going to church will not gain you power all on their own. We're talking full on risking your life to spread the faith, acting as a champion of the downtrodden for the 'Knight' path, ministering to lepers, and similar things. Like, sure once you get power only you can damage it (which is what I imagine Sin does) but you also can't easily gain it as a peasant in Random Field #3 in the first place, which makes it a harder sell.

I.F. Ister · Mar 11, 2023

Christian Cultivation doesn't happen on accident. I'll say that much

Omegahugger · Mar 11, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
He may have a different set of values but, generally speaking, a warrior is gonna respect honorable victory in a fair fight. Like, if we beat him with a dirty trick or beat him and then mocked him afterward, I don't think he's like us any more, but if we beat him in a straight fight and treat him honorably afterward I think that wins more respect than losing.

He's not really a warrior though. He's only a squire, in the "warrior-to-be" category. And that also requires him to view Halla as a warrior, which considering that he doesn't like to fight girls he very well might not.

What counts as an "honourable victory" or "dirty trick" might also very well be different for these two. Gabriel has to live a virtous life according Christian values in order to get any *Faith points* and has been chained up for a year, meanwhile Halla is out there getting Orthstirr for free just because of who her father is. If Gabriel feels uncharitable, it'll very, very easy for him to justify (to himself) that any loss is just due to Halla cheating. And since he's a hotheaded teenager whose been taken to another country against his will, he probably doesn't have a lot of charity to give beyond what Jerasmus metaphorically beat into him.

... Though this does make me wonder if rich and powerful Christians might turbocharge their Cultivation by paying for Letters of Indulgences.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 11, 2023

Omegahugger said:
He's not really a warrior though. He's only a squire, in the "warrior-to-be" category. And that also requires him to view Halla as a warrior, which considering that he doesn't like to fight girls he very well might not.

What counts as an "honourable victory" or "dirty trick" might also very well be different for these two. Gabriel has to live a virtous life according Christian values in order to get any *Faith points* and has been chained up for a year, meanwhile Halla is out there getting Orthstirr for free just because of who her father is. If Gabriel feels uncharitable, it'll very, very easy for him to justify (to himself) that any loss is just due to Halla cheating. And since he's a hotheaded teenager whose been taken to another country against his will, he probably doesn't have a lot of charity to give beyond what Jerasmus metaphorically beat into him.

I mean, all this is possible, but so is him respecting a worthy opponent, and particularly one who behaves honorably. Is that a sure way to win him over? No, nothing is, but it's a damn sight more likely to work than losing is. If we lose, he's less likely to respect us, and gaining his respect is definitely a necessary first step to winning him over.

And he's a squire who was captured in battle. I think if Halla is a warrior (and she is), he probably counts as well.

Omegahugger said:
... Though this does make me wonder if rich and powerful Christians might turbocharge their Cultivation by paying for Letters of Indulgences.

Probably not per se. Indulgences get you out of trouble for sinning, not increase your virtue directly. I suspect you can use them to buy off certain kinds of Sin, though...that being exactly what they did in Catholic doctrine. So rich Knights aren't necessarily more powerful than poorer ones but can more easily get away with un-knightly behavior without it impacting their cultivation. Yeah, that sounds pretty likely.

TheCount · Mar 11, 2023

Can't wait until the schism happens, but that would require the "rent your afterlife" letters from the church....
And probably that the printing blocks to be created around the same time too.

Sirrocco · Mar 11, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
Christian Cultivation doesn't happen on accident. I'll say that much

Huh. Okay. So I guess that one of the big cheats that the Vikings have is that they basically are all full-on cultivators (and therefore superhuman badasses) as compared to the other civs, where it's rarer.

We did see one case where the faith of a bunch of random peasants kept the wards of the church working... until it didn't anymore. So the faith and belief of even those who aren't "cultivators" can mean something.

So... if the cultivation cheat that lets every viking be a cultivator is somehow tied to their lust for violence (which seems reasonably likely) then it's possible that the nornir are, in effect, being used as a massive cultivation cheat. Like, the hour of your death is fixed, so you can afford to just charge screaming into battle again and again and again, and reap the cultivation benefits therefrom. Cowardly Vikings don't actually tend to live any longer than brave vikings. It has a sort of brutal elegance.

It also resists certain kinds of change, which could be problematic in the future. Like, if we ever do want to untangle our country's cultivation from the fundamental fatalism of the nornir... that's going to make things quite a lot harder. Likewise if we ever want to turn out culture away from violence.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 11, 2023

Sirrocco said:
So... if the cultivation cheat that lets every viking be a cultivator is somehow tied to their lust for violence (which seems reasonably likely) then it's possible that the nornir are, in effect, being used as a massive cultivation cheat.

Uh...orthstirr isn't tied inherently to violence. It's tied to achievement and fame and honor and respect. We've been explicitly told that writing good poetry and winning legal arguments in court grant orthstirr. The smart money says so does being an excellent and successful merchant (assuming you're appropriately generous), or a great explorer. Anything that wins public respect and acclaim, basically. You do have to go out and actually achieve visible things, which is why women generally have less, but violence is not the only such thing.

Now, the Norse need to be willing to commit violence, because they need to be willing to answer insults violently to avoid nid, but they don't need to seek it out. It's a quick route to power (because it's a quick route to achievement, fame, and respect, if you survive) but not their only one by any means. An honorable guy who basically goes around being Phoenix Wright in legal battles and writing awesome poetry and only fights in the defense of himself or others might be a very high orthstirr individual indeed.

Now, the Norns control over their date of death definitely encourages violence as the easiest way to gain orthstirr (since, as you say, not fighting will not change the day of your death), but orthstirr itself and how it works do not necessitate it by any means. Which makes me question how closely you're connecting it and the Norns...like, the Norns are important and so is orthstirr, but I'm not convinced its more closely tied to them that it is to Odin, Freya, or any other Norse deity.

I think what lets orthstirr be universal is how external it is. It rises as people's opinion of you does, so you don't need to do anything internal for that to happen. The exact same mechanism that makes it 'easy' to lose compared to more internal forms of cultivation also makes it 'easy' to gain.

Constenanto · Mar 11, 2023

Sirrocco said:
We did see one case where the faith of a bunch of random peasants kept the wards of the church working... until it didn't anymore. So the faith and belief of even those who aren't "cultivators" can mean something.

I remember this being said, but I don't recall it being specified whether they were peasants, priests, soldiers, etc. Does anyone happen to remember the turn where we were told this story?

TheCount · Mar 11, 2023

We don't, necessarily, need to untangle our cultivation system from the Norns, actually.
I am willing to say its actually pretty good to have them. because there isn't the usual "and my great great great grandpa back to the 19th generation is still alive and leads the clan" bullshit and making sure the Norse people and culture isn't that calcified as in many xianxias.

Though, its always fun to talk similarities and differences of the systems in this quest.

The biggest question regarding the Chinese cultivation system is if they are just as material/resource hungry as in the usual xianxias.

The Norse are pretty social, in their cultivation, as Deadman pointed out. But cultural changes could probably affect the system easily... Which makes me want to see Halla (or the descendants) go into Great Teacher Orthstirr mode.

Christianity on the third arm though is crowdsourcing all the energy and pouring them into specific people. We know of Knights and Squires but there are probably less battle focused versions as well, like Priests.

Then, comes the mysteries of the others, like the Witch from Ireland.

Edit:

Constenanto said:
I remember this being said, but I don't recall it being specified whether they were peasants, priests, soldiers, etc. Does anyone happen to remember the turn where we were told this story?

sure, here:

Imperial Fister said:
However, the townspeople had fled to the monastery with most of their wealth. Up until this point in time, no monastery had been hit by vikingar, so it was thought of as safe. And they were correct!

For, you see, no vikingr had yet managed to breach into a monastery, for their faith in their God kept the warriors out. Nothing could touch the Christian's golden wall. No arrow nor spear nor trick could even as much as blemish the shield.

But, among them was a cunning warrior called Thormarr, who would later be known as Thormarr Faithbreaker. He hatched a brilliant plan after listening to the Christians' taunts and jeers. If it was the Christian's faith that fueled the shield, then he'd simply have to weaken their faith and the shield would fall.

He had his men scour the scorched town for artifacts of Christian faith. He proceeded, in full view of those trapped within the monastery, to burn and deface their God's idols. When nothing happened to him, despite the monks' claims that he'd be struck down, their faith wavered.

And the shield fell.

And much plunder was had.

Edit 2: Sorry for the misnaming Deadman!

DeadmanwalkingXI · Mar 11, 2023

Constenanto said:
I remember this being said, but I don't recall it being specified whether they were peasants, priests, soldiers, etc. Does anyone happen to remember the turn where we were told this story?

Here's the full story:

Imperial Fister said:
"Randi?" You ask one evening, when the last of the chores were being done. "Can you tell me a story about the Christians?"

Randi pauses in her work and taps her chin thoughtfully, her black hair cut to her ears, like all thralls. She's seventeen years your elder, though she's always seemed more like a big sister — a better one than Asva! — than an adult woman. "I don't know many about Christians, but I do know one."

Randi launches into a tale about, like many of her tales, brave vikingar. She describes them as they began an attack on a town near a monastery, how the defenders fought heroically and died on their feet, like men. The warriors honored their memories by cleansing their homes of any lingering malignant spirits.

However, the townspeople had fled to the monastery with most of their wealth. Up until this point in time, no monastery had been hit by vikingar, so it was thought of as safe. And they were correct!

For, you see, no vikingr had yet managed to breach into a monastery, for their faith in their God kept the warriors out. Nothing could touch the Christian's golden wall. No arrow nor spear nor trick could even as much as blemish the shield.

But, among them was a cunning warrior called Thormarr, who would later be known as Thormarr Faithbreaker. He hatched a brilliant plan after listening to the Christians' taunts and jeers. If it was the Christian's faith that fueled the shield, then he'd simply have to weaken their faith and the shield would fall.

He had his men scour the scorched town for artifacts of Christian faith. He proceeded, in full view of those trapped within the monastery, to burn and deface their God's idols. When nothing happened to him, despite the monks' claims that he'd be struck down, their faith wavered.

And the shield fell.

And much plunder was had.

So it sounds like it was actually the Monks whose faith repelled the Vikings rather than the peasants. Or at least primarily the Monks, plus maybe something allowing them to use the faith of even the less powerful...but definitely not peasants alone.

TheCount said:
We don't, necessarily, need to untangle our cultivation system from the Norns, actually.
I am willing to say its actually pretty good to have them. because there isn't the usual "and my great great great grandpa back to the 19th generation is still alive and leads the clan" bullshit and making sure the Norse people and culture isn't that calcified as in many xianxias.

I dunno if I buy the Norns as a good thing...the last king of the area we're in (before the current one) lived centuries if I'm remembering right, so they don't actually prevent becoming unaging, and having a destined day of death sucks and, as mentioned, encourages violence more than is probably good.

TheCount said:
Though, its always fun to talk similarities and differences of the systems in this quest.

The biggest question regarding the Chinese cultivation system is if they are just as material/resource hungry as in the usual xianxias.

I'm betting yes, but we don't actually know, it's true.

TheCount said:
The Norse are pretty social, in their cultivation, as Deadman pointed out. But cultural changes could probably affect the system easily... Which makes me want to see Halla (or the descendants) go into Great Teacher Orthstirr mode.

Christianity on the third arm though is crowdsourcing all the energy and pouring them into specific people. We know of Knights and Squires but there are probably less battle focused versions as well, like Priests.

Yeah, the differences are really interesting and I want to see more cultivation systems just to find out more.

TheCount said:
Then, comes the mysteries of the others, like the Witch from Ireland.

We don't actually know that the Witch is from Ireland, though her Goddess probably is. Her Goddess may be taking followers where she can get them given the general Christianization of Ireland.

Shine · Mar 11, 2023

Reading all this makes me realise every single cultivator in this entire setting is just casually superhuman.

…..imagines For Honour, but even more blatantly high fantasy, and not being balanced for that fighting game experience.
…..

damn that's cool.

Toboe · Mar 11, 2023

TheCount said:
We don't, necessarily, need to untangle our cultivation system from the Norns, actually.
I am willing to say its actually pretty good to have them. because there isn't the usual "and my great great great grandpa back to the 19th generation is still alive and leads the clan" bullshit and making sure the Norse people and culture isn't that calcified as in many xianxias.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I dunno if I buy the Norns as a good thing...the last king of the area we're in (before the current one) lived centuries if I'm remembering right, so they don't actually prevent becoming unaging, and having a destined day of death sucks and, as mentioned, encourages violence more than is probably good.

A later character could reform it, like a crafter believing in a cycle like "learn until you know the state of the art, learn something new, teach pupils" (which for the pupils would be "learn until you know the state of the art"), with each new generation reaching new heights by standing on the shoulders of the ones who came before them.
Would give what the Norns are supposed to give (the old ends and makes way for the new) without the over-focus on violence.
Or at least it does once it is spread far enough that general societal pressure just nids to hell anyone who tries to go "I'm the sun king! Everyone should listen to me forever!".

Don't think Halla is the right one for that, though. Her bloodthirsty disadvantage literally makes the desire a part of her, and she has given no sign of not embracing the warrior-path.

NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

One and Many

Pedantic

Fortifying The Thread

One and Many

Inattentive Idiot

Pedantic

Pedantic

Fortifying The Thread

Inattentive Idiot

Pedantic