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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Alratan said:
Nemesis allows a person to ignore behavioural restrictions that usually bind them. The reason the White Council was so thoroughly betrayed is that, I suspect, they didn't know this.
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I wouldnt be that generous.

We know Corpsetaker was White Council, possibly even a Warden before going bad, and she was powerful enough to straight up steal Luccio's body from under her in combat. They have to know that potential traitors are a thing. Hell, the way they keep treating Dresden as a danger after he took the same oaths everyone else did means they know its no impediment to betrayal .

I chalk it up in part to institutional arrogance, in part to lack of resources for policing, and in part to Peabody being just that good.
BronzeTongue said:
To be fair, if we wanted to get involved more directly something like this was probably going to happen anyway. We're not built for subtle social manipulation, and are too sketchy to play ourselves off as something more normal.
I doubt he'll shut down entirely even if he reacts in an unhelpful way, so we should still learn something either way.
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Fair enough.
BronzeTongue said:
We can active as many or as few aspects as we like with RR though, so presumably we wouldn't need to use it unless we want to be stupid lethal. Fluff wise I assume it'd be in
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Not automatic; its still an activation roll to see if we can prevent it expressing.
And those do, occasionally, fail.
Still an Essence 4 question. Nothing to argue about now.
 
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uju32 said:
Not automatic; its still an activation roll to see if we can prevent it expressing.
And those do, occasionally, fail.
Still an Essence 4 question. Nothing to argue about now.
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Not quite.
When we use the Charm, we can activate as many Aspects as we want, no roll needed.

Only when our Anima is flaring do we need to roll to surpress an aspect.
 
firefrog600 said:
When should we get to our magic stuff? Also what should we get first?
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Depends on what we want to do. I think some more summoning would be good, but we've probably got a lot on our plate in that area fully exploiting the cyber devils.

Charms are probably better for combat in most cases, and normal enchantment likely also loses out, so that leaves utility as the main place magic could be useful to us.

Transport, summoning, buffs, and divination would probably be the main ones if interest. Martial arts seem like better buff sources, summoning is out for now due to the above reason, so divination or transport magic seem like a reasonable place to start.

My preference would be to split our next buy between the basics of Molly's new martial arts, some soak charms, and the etiquette SEP field one so that we can wander around and place devils in restricted areas and otherwise mess around with mortals more easily.

Magic would fit in maybe two buys from now, after we've buffed our combat kit and fully exploited our existing utility charms.
 
DragonParadox said:
With no way to know what Molly was doing until it was too late short of opening his sight and getting an eyeful of eldritch power that man was not meant to know Lash was the only early warning system on offer
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Confirmation: Harry trusts our power less than he trusts freaking Lash. Good to know where we stand, at least. Wonder if that says more about how sketchy our power looks, or how much Lash has slipped past his guard to make him trust her without him realizing. Something to keep an eye on, especially if she's using his distrust in our power as a lever to make him rely on her more than he did in canon.

Other than that, most of what I want to say has already been said by someone else in the thread, so I'll just go with the vote.

And just to say, we are actually surprisingly good at subtle social manipulation, since our Manipulation and Charisma dots are both 3, and we have 3 dots and an excellency each in Empathy and Subterfuge. Actually, we have an excellency in literally every social skill but Politics, including our 2 dot Etiquette, so we're actually capable of superhuman dice pools for every kind of social except that, even if we have to stunt for it with Etiquette.

[X] BronzeTongue
 
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one sad thing about this quest I doubt that harry will ever redeem(corrupt) lash like he did in canon we're more likely to pull her out somehow I think.
 
bengalqueen said:
Confirmation: Harry trusts our power less than he trusts freaking Lash. Good to know where we stand, at least. Wonder if that says more about how sketchy our power looks, or how much Lash has slipped past his guard to make him trust her without him realizing. Something to keep an eye on, especially if she's using his distrust in our power as a lever to make him rely on her more than he did in canon.
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I don't think that's quite the best way to interpret Harry's POV in regards to our power.

For all her knowledge and potential duplicity, Lash is largely a known factor, and a severely limited one at that. She cannot do anything but tamper with Harry's perceptions and impart information to him, which may or may not be truthful.

Molly, on the other hand, is basically an OOCP for Harry. Her power just came out of nowhere and it doesn't act like anything he's familiar with. And every time he thinks he might have a handle on our abilities, we bust out something new to once more upset his expectations and assumptions. Just look at Clippy, for example, or the Demon Wagon. Sure, he's familiar with spirits and demons and the concept of binding them for specific purposes, but Cyber Demons? That's a whole new ballgame, and one with potentially horrific potential to go wrong from Harry's limited POV.
 
the very idea of white council having to figure out cyber demons is hilarious to me. Their so utterly unsuited to the task right now.
 
Artemis1992 said:
On the positive side, if she ever does manage to get his trust and ask us to help, we can get her out and free.
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We could always try some good old fashion omega grade heresy of our own here.

I mean, part of the reason that Uriel didn't talk to us directly when making that deal was that he was afraid we might ask how to make him fall.

If we can legitimately ask that and get a useful answer, why not ask how to make a fallen one rise?

Sure it sounds pretty impossible, but I bet the idea of an angel falling sounded equally insane before some of them actually did.

It'd be pretty hilarious to plant six words of our own in the true Lasciel's ears and send her spiraling into her own redemption arc.

The best part is that we aren't even one of heaven's interns, so if the devil tries to collect points for this Uriel gets to tell him to pound sand.

Even if it's not actually possible just being able to legitimately threaten it would justify the enemy dots we have with them, and be incredibly funny.

Think the white god would give us shinies for gluing his rogue sub souls back on? :V
 
In terms of sorcery, both alchemy and enchantment have real potential.

With excellencies and the ability to spend essence in place of mana we can produce astonishing amounts of successes. Pair that with Tool Transcending Constructs and we can create significant amounts of alchemical or enchanted material. We can probably even stack them, and use alchemical materials to produce enchantments.
 
Oh yeah, techbane means cyber demons are probably the one kind of demon the White Council is the least familiar with, to the point where I wonder how many wizards are even more than vaguely aware they might exist.

And Harry, the answer to what kind of powers we'll develop in the future is simple: whatever we want. The whole point of an Exaltation is to transcend boundaries and do the impossible. If there isn't an existing charm that does what we want, we'll eventually be able to create a custom charm that does. Why else do you think the Denarians are so afraid of us that we get enemy dots from them just by existing? Exalted are scary, but we're one of the good guys, so we're a scary thing on your side. Isn't that great?!
 
Goldfish said:
Molly, on the other hand, is basically an OOCP for Harry. Her power just came out of nowhere and it doesn't act like anything he's familiar with. And every time he thinks he might have a handle on our abilities, we bust out something new to once more upset his expectations and assumptions. Just look at Clippy, for example, or the Demon Wagon. Sure, he's familiar with spirits and demons and the concept of binding them for specific purposes, but Cyber Demons? That's a whole new ballgame, and one with potentially horrific potential to go wrong from Harry's limited POV.
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Remember that the Wicked City and its cyber-demons are a known location in the Nevernever and so are a factor that wizards should be becoming aware of independent of Molly.
 
[X] Interject
-[X] Ask what he swore and to whom, maybe there is a way to thread the needle
-[X] Use excellency
- [X] Stunt: Molly leans forwards, and looks the old man over with a searching gaze. "Oaths are funny things. We hold to them so strongly, but often that which we bind the tightest is the first that we lose. Look no further than the fair folk to see how very important the will behind the words is in any promise"
-[X] "So tell us, what exactly did you promise, and by what terms?" Molly says with an almost hungry smile. "You might find that fiends and fey are not alone in being free even within the tightest chains, or powerful despite even the greatest vows."
-[X] "Help us help you, and none of this will be able to follow you home again"
 
Alratan said:
Remember that the Wicked City and its cyber-demons are a known location in the Nevernever and so are a factor that wizards should be becoming aware of independent of Molly.
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the nevernever is fucking huge no one knows everything in it well maybe God. Lore probably does exist though something existing in the nevernever is not good for placing something as a knowable quantity though.
 
Alratan said:
Remember that the Wicked City and its cyber-demons are a known location in the Nevernever and so are a factor that wizards should be becoming aware of independent of Molly.
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It should be noted that the never-never is near endless and a wizard's time is not. Add to that the fact that to even enter the Wicked City you need to be mortal-side in a kind of technological place most wizards avoid and it gets even harder. Now consider where the Yama Kings hold the most sway in the mortal world and it becomes a lot more reasonable that a relatively young wizard in Chicago does not know about the Wicked City
 
For XP we really need Demonic Primacy of Essences 4xp, it lowers the Dif by -2 against a ton of stuff. That turns Molly from a social monster into a social god. The old letting a social exalted talk to you, means you have already lost, becomes fully in effect.

Next get maggot mana plague 8xp, which feed essences x100 people per use. And anybody eating it gets a further -1 to social. Which stacks with the above for -3 dif.

These two would allow us to walk into the undertown which is full of minor spirits of decay, ruin etc. And convert it into the start of a personal retinue of beings that work for Molly. Get the training charm and in a few months we have a massive army ready to go at will.
 
Alratan said:
It may be huge but the Hells have a continual stream of refugees rising as Jade Court vampires, and the major Hells have more victims and so more escapees.
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white councils projection power is mostly in europe, some of the states, and....heres the quote. They don't have a lot of projection power in quite a few places.
"the White Council stuck to the wealthier nations of Europe, the US, and the upper end portions of Asia."

Edit: Historically that is at least the past few centuries it may be increasing a bit since the population raising has raised the wizard population. But, generally white council is always under manned and so their general knowledge and power should mostly be in those areas.
 
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firefrog600 said:
white councils projection power is mostly in europe, some of the states, and....heres the quote. They don't have a lot of projection power in quite a few places.
"the White Council stuck to the wealthier nations of Europe, the US, and the upper end portions of Asia."

Edit: Historically that is at least the past few centuries it may be increasing a bit since the population raising has raised the wizard population. But, generally white council is always under manned and so their general knowledge and power should mostly be in those areas.
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Ancient Mai is Chinese, and the White Council's head diplomat. After four hundred years you'd expect her to have accumulated infrastructure, apprentices, etc.
 
Alratan said:
Ancient Mai is Chinese, and the White Council's head diplomat. After four hundred years you'd expect her to have accumulated infrastructure, apprentices, etc.
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I mean she has shes absurdly good at it shes known to be great at networking not much for direct battle. Just their not everywhere dude and large parts of the world have got to be mostly blank spots and rumors for them just like everyone else. Also the quote said northern parts of asia. Their not everywhere japan might have a single wizard at best for example if even that. Also note the quote saying richer european countries not that they don't have others. Just its largely been euro centric its history and thats not changed much except parts of the states and northern part of asia woj.
 
firefrog600 said:
I mean she has shes absurdly good at it shes known to be great at networking not much for direct battle. Just their not everywhere dude and large parts of the world have got to be mostly blank spots and rumors for them just like everyone else. Also the quote said northern parts of asia. Their not everywhere japan might have a single wizard at best for example if even that. Also note the quote saying richer european countries not that they don't have others. Just its largely been euro centric its history and thats not changed much except parts of the states and northern part of asia woj.
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She's from China, not northern Asia, and as she's the Council's chief diplomat then she will have diplomatic relationships in that area.

To give an example, in on of the books, she can't make a Senior Council meeting because she's busy doing her job in Indonesia.
 
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