Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Fun expeditions, busting international mafias and looting nazi archives.
That would be good for a little later in the game after we have a way to go hopping around the world to wherever our Crown tells us they'll be, as long as we either have a way to cover for where we actually got the knowledge from or are late-game enough that we don't care if people know about the Crown and the knowledge it gives us.

My method gives us a way to get a political "in" with the various members of the White Council who buy our stuff, as long as we turn up the charm with Charisma + Empathy + Excellency for a 12 dice pool. It should be easy to get a reputation as "that nice Carpenter girl" among our customer base if we play our cards right, and that gives us leverage.
 
Vote closed Looks like we are going to get involved.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 22, 2022 at 2:10 AM, finished with 186 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] Interject
    -[X] Ask what he swore and to whom, maybe there is a way to thread the needle
    -[X] Use excellency
    - [X] Stunt: Molly leans forwards, and looks the old man over with a searching gaze. "Oaths are funny things. We hold to them so strongly, but often that which we bind the tightest is the first that we lose. Look no further than the fair folk to see how very important the will behind the words is in any promise"
    -[X] "So tell us, what exactly did you promise, and by what terms?" Molly says with an almost hungry smile. "You might find that fiends and fey are not alone in being free even within the tightest chains, or powerful despite even the greatest vows."
    -[X] "Help us help you, and none of this will be able to follow you home again"
    [X] Let Harry Continue
    [X] Interject
    -[X] Ask what he swore and to whom, maybe there is a way to thread the needle
 
While raising up a Fallen Angel would be a nice prestige-project, it doesn't fundamentally change things.
Redeemed Lasciel would just be another Angel, incapable of acting freely on the world.
Since God's current angels already have vastly more power than they can factually use in their interactions with reality, that doesn't really help things much.

If on the other hand, we could take a Harry-corrupted Lash out of his mind via exorcism and make her a free spirit of her own, not a true angel, not a Fallen bound to a Coin, but something else.
Then we have made a new actor of unknown capabilities and freedoms that might be able to do more than cryptic advice and impossible chance-manipulation for our side.
It would screw the devil out of a powerful minion, which isn't nothing, but point taken.

Redeeming a fallen angel would be more of a goal to accomplish to spite the devil, live up to Molly's background, and for reputation gain than for specific tangible rewards.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 22, 2022 at 2:10 AM, finished with 186 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] Interject
    -[X] Ask what he swore and to whom, maybe there is a way to thread the needle
    -[X] Use excellency
    - [X] Stunt: Molly leans forwards, and looks the old man over with a searching gaze. "Oaths are funny things. We hold to them so strongly, but often that which we bind the tightest is the first that we lose. Look no further than the fair folk to see how very important the will behind the words is in any promise"
    -[X] "So tell us, what exactly did you promise, and by what terms?" Molly says with an almost hungry smile. "You might find that fiends and fey are not alone in being free even within the tightest chains, or powerful despite even the greatest vows."
    -[X] "Help us help you, and none of this will be able to follow you home again"
    [X] Let Harry Continue
    [X] Interject
    -[X] Ask what he swore and to whom, maybe there is a way to thread the needle
 
Arc 2 Post 11: Unforgotten
Unforgotten

21st of July 2006 A.D.

Leaning forward a bit you catch the old man's gaze for a moment before he averts it, fearing a soulgaze, or maybe just not wanting to look you in the eye. I can work with that. "Oaths are funny things. We hold to them so strongly, but often that which we bind the tightest is the first that we lose. Look no further than the fair folk to see how very important the will behind the words is in any promise.So tell us, what exactly did you promise, and by what terms."You smile and it is not a gentle thing, nor filled with any mirth, but hungry. Usum hums proudly at the back of your mind, this he is far more familiar with than even the song of battle.

Lost 1 Essence

For a moment Matthews freezes up and you can read Harry's annoyance flash across his face, but only for a moment. The old mage rallies with the swiftness of one who has gotten out of their fair of tight spots in their life. "You are free indeed with the risks that others must take fair lady, but know that is dancing perilous close to the edge of a cliff into which more than the likes of me would fall."

You wonder if he means more of his confederates, how many dodgy sorcerers are there in deep rural Illinois of all places, but then your eyes fall on the pictures upon the mantelpiece and you recall what the man had said about him, no mention of a son or daughter, just granddaughters. If he dies what would become of them

Lost 1 Essence

"When the edge is already crumbling under your feet it is best to try to jump to safety on your terms than hope that fate alone will deliver you a narrow narrow path to walk on. Help us help you and none of this will be able to follow you home again." Given what his choice of wall decorations looks like this fellow is either a magical arms seller or he is an arms holder and you are betting on the latter.

"Are you willing to make a vow to that?" he asks, looking between you and Harry.

Before you can reply Harry cuts in. "You called me a Warden, you know what that means, that's a duty I already took on."

"Not all who wear a Wardens' cloak cut by the Wardens' Laws," the old man replies with a knowing look. Seeing Harry's face darken he raises a hand for peace. "Even if you do, there's only so much law to in there: keep the peace, keep the secret, punish the lawbreaker. Where in there does it say you have to give a damn about me or Cindy or Alice?"

"Right between basic human decency and not wanting to be known as the sort of person who ignores it. There's plenty of things out there that will use a man and throw him away, but it always comes back to bite them in the end," Harry replies.

"Always." the old man gives a short dry laugh. "An optimist I see, you'll learn... or you won't."

He goes quiet again after that. "I promised not to betray the master's secrets nor lead ruin to the door of his other servants by speech or by silence, in life or in death. I swore also to keep faith with him and aid him in all his works to the best of my meager abilities. I was freed of the last bit back in '61 when the Council finally made death stick to him who thought himself its master."

Kemmler, he means Kemmler you realize, that big time necromancer Harry talked about and from the look on Harry's own face he was not expecting that confession. His right hand shifts a little closer to his blasting rod.

"Not getting out of this without a soulgaze am I?" the old sorcerer asks with a wintry smile. "Let's get this over with."

From the outside a soulgaze does not look like anything special, just two people locking gazes for a moment, before they break off, both looking shaken.

"While the master had no respect for the Laws when it came to himself and those he counted enlightened, he recognized that some were not ready to embrace the truth of their power, of the divinity that lies hidden in ever-rotting mortal flesh and veiled in the stink of their fear." That last part sounded like a quote, and one he did not like repeating, though it came easily to his lips. "I was fortunate enough to be unenlightened and away on an errand when his death found him. I haven't gone looking for his 'enlightenment' for forty five years now, longer than you've been alive Warden Dresden. All I want is to be left alone to finish raising my granddaughters and then I will face whatever's on the other side for the likes of me."

"There is forgiveness for sins if you repent," you answer softly. "God is love."

Matthews looks at you funny, but doesn't say anything while Harry gathers his thoughts. "You could argue that Kemmler doesn't have any secrets now that he's dead," he argues.

"You could, you never met him," Matthews shakes his head. "He was obsessed with immortality, the actual magical sort yes, but also legacy should the first fail, that's why he penned the Word and arranged for it to be copied and sent off far and wide, it is why he took apprentices. I heard him say once that only in being forgotten can oblivion be found."

"You did tell us some secrets, just now and no ill came of them." You take care not to seem like you are pushing too hard now, he seems almost relieved to be talking about this now or maybe by what he had seen in Harry's soul.

"I can tell you my own secrets, who I am, who I was who I used to know, but it is not... ah what's that called? It's not actionable intelligence to help unravel his legacy."

"Even if it's his legacy what they do after Kemmler's death can't be his secrets can they?" Harry asks suddenly. "You weren't that surprised when I asked about Gorfel, had the not-lie at the tip of your tongue. You've met him recently haven't you?"

"Two weeks ago on the seventh..." he stops as the spirit bindings on the wall start to sway though the air is still, takes a deep breath before continuing. You suddenly realize he must be terrified, enough so that his magic is spilling out and affecting the bindings, but you can see no sign of it on his face. Guess being able to hide fear is an important skill in working for an insane necromancer and much like riding a bike not one you forget. "Gorfel came much as you did, asking for information about Chicago, about you. He was particularly interested in last Halloween. A good thing I had not partaken of that soulgaze beforehand. Not many Wardens in good standing can claim to have... ah... done what you did."

"Yeah well I didn't do it for a joyride," Harry replies, a little defensively. You wonder what that's about.

Matthews nods, though you can tell it is more for politeness' sake before moving on.

"I shared rumor and tall tales, the kind of thing he could have gotten almost anywhere. Him I did not allow past the threshold and when he offered me a place among the Society again I told him to never darken my doorway again. He laughed and said I would crawl back begging for scraps eventually. Scraps or a whole cut it's all poisoned meat."

That is when Harry really gets into the questioning: "What was he wearing? How did he get here, did he come by car or by the ways? Was anyone with him?" On and on pocking at every single detail of the late night visit, with all the skill of a professional detective and all the precision of a wizard at his art.

Thus you find out all sorts of interesting things. For one Gorfel had been alone and not with his goon squad, nor had he been driving, in fact oddly enough for the middle of summer on a clear evening his boots had been wet. Harry quickly latched on to that and asked if the man had any weapons visible and what he had been wearing. As it turns out not a single scrap of steel, nor a glimmer of iron, which would mean he took the ways and the water might once have been ice which would mean he took the ways through Winter.

Is this hand of the queen or some lesser power, perhaps even a traitor? Usum wonders in your mind, but Harry just moves on: Had any of the locals noticed him. The answer as it turns out is no, Gorfel has ways to walk past the eyes of men veiled in shadow, but also yes. They had noticed his passage, particularly all fuse boxes shorting out at the old county jail house, a fact that Matthews had not previously connected with the visit of his old colleague.

The obvious question is 'Had that been where he had exited the Ways?' and that is where you find another bit of local history. The old jailhouse dates back more than a hundred years and one of the more ghoulish local stories is that of a sadistic local sheriff who would abuse the prisoners... including letting one of them freeze to death in the winter of 1901.

"We've got him, there's bound to be some kind of spirit that noticed his coming and going," you say excitedly.

"Better to ask once than walk into the lion's mouth once, I'll ask some contacts I know about it." It doesn't take a genius to realize Harry would not want to take you back into Winter's domain, even around the edges, but on the other hand you are really good where it's cold and you don't much like the notion of Harry having to barter with the fey for information.

"And you have had no other contacts with the Society between Kemler's death and the seventh of this year?" you ask not-quite idly.

"No, I did not seek it nor wish it," he replies instantly. "The wards are meant to hold against more than fey."

What do you do ?

[] Argue that you should follow the trail and see what you can find on the other side, the fey who had seen Gorfel with their own eyes are likely to be lesser in stature and thus easier to deal with than those who can command their fellows to speak up

[] Return to Chicago to do more research with this new information

[] Ask more questions
-[] Write in


OOC: Harry and Molly make a surprisingly good good cop bad cop here, though part of that is consistently good rolls on Harry's part. Soft social rolls are not his forte, but you pushed him into the role when you went for the super-powered intimidation.
 
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Getting exited for the next part.

The obvious question is 'Had that been where he had exited the Ways?' and that is where you find another bit of local history. The old jailhouse dates back more than a hundred years and one of the more ghoulish local stories is that of a sadistic local sheriff who would abuse the prisoners... including letting one of them freeze to death in the winter of 1901.

"We've got him, there's bound to be some kind of spirit that noticed his coming and going," you say excitedly.
Aside from asking the local Fey, would asking actual ghosts be an option?
There must be some around in a place like this.

But I don't know how good Dresden is at percieving and talking to that kind of thing.
 
Getting exited for the next part.


Aside from asking the local Fey, would asking actual ghosts be an option?
There must be some around in a place like this.

But I don't know how good Dresden is at percieving and talking to that kind of thing.

Any ghosts that linger in the jail house would likely have witnesses his passage so you can try to question them if you find any yeah. You would have to open a door to their layer of the Nevernever though and what would be a moderately complicated thing for Harry with no prep.
 
That went moderately well; though in hindsight we probably should have worked out a play with Harry in advance. I'm not sure how seriously he was taking us in regards to this sort of thing, but hopefully being an effective bad cop on this run will make him more willing to treat Molly as something other than a kid he's babysitting while on the job.

As an aside, we really need to get some sort of cash flow going soon. I feel bad about asking Harry to work for free.

On a more practical level, if we only ever show up when we need help and can't do something as basic as pay his normal fee he'll eventually have to say no because he needs to actually do his day job to eat.
 
That went moderately well; though in hindsight we probably should have worked out a play with Harry in advance. I'm not sure how seriously he was taking us in regards to this sort of thing, but hopefully being an effective bad cop on this run will make him more willing to treat Molly as something other than a kid he's babysitting while on the job.

As an aside, we really need to get some sort of cash flow going soon. I feel bad about asking Harry to work for free.

On a more practical level, if we only ever show up when we need help and can't do something as basic as pay his normal fee he'll eventually have to say no because he needs to actually do his day job to eat.

Er... two things, firstly as a Warden this is arguably his job from the White Council, but also this is Harry Dresden, he will cut his food and utility budget before refusing to do what he considers that right thing.
 
That went moderately well; though in hindsight we probably should have worked out a play with Harry in advance. I'm not sure how seriously he was taking us in regards to this sort of thing, but hopefully being an effective bad cop on this run will make him more willing to treat Molly as something other than a kid he's babysitting while on the job.

As an aside, we really need to get some sort of cash flow going soon. I feel bad about asking Harry to work for free.

On a more practical level, if we only ever show up when we need help and can't do something as basic as pay his normal fee he'll eventually have to say no because he needs to actually do his day job to eat.
Isn't he doing his duty as a Warden here?
That should be payed and not by us.
 
Er... two things, firstly as a Warden this is arguably his job from the White Council, but also this is Harry Dresden, he will cut his food and utility budget before refusing to do what he considers that right thing.
Isn't he doing his duty as a Warden here?
That should be payed and not by us.
Fair point on the warden thing.

Harry is stubborn about this sort of thing, but abusing that tendency is sort of a dick move. Especially since not all of the stuff we'll want help with will really fall into the category that he actually needs to play hero on.
 
Annoyingly enough Qiao of the Yu An (Jade Harmony) specifically has abilities to interact with the spirit world without actually going there, which would be useful here, but it wasn't even one of the options for learning a Qiao, so I suppose that's no more useful than any other charm we wished we had. (Actually, Yu An has the power before the spirit world stuff be a magical lie detector that can also see if someone is possessed or otherwise "mentally influenced," so just a good utility tree for investigations in general that might be worth picking up eventually.)

Ah well, anybody think about any options that only use stuff we already have? Maybe burn a question on the jailhouse, since it's probably a topic we won't want to question again, get something about the Ways in the area? Or something like that?
 
I don't think we should be crossing into Winter-held Nevernever territory right now. That seems a bit premature and not necessarily helpful. The only way I see this leading us to useful information is if a nearby spirit or lesser Fey saw something with actual authority or influence among the Winter Court physically escorting Gorfel through the Way to a safe exit point. If a spirit saw something like that, it won't likely be able to tell us who it was, and if it was a lesser Fey, we would have to compel it to rat out a higher ranking Fey. And the only way it wouldn't tell others about its encounter with us is if we kill it.

Better to leave Matthews' place, perhaps with a warning that forces are moving in the background which might try to draw him in again, then ask our Crown once we're gone.

[X] Thank Matthews for his cooperation and warn him that the Society seems active of late, at least in this area. Given his relatively close proximity to Chicago, he might want to take additional precautions or consider relocating himself and his granddaughters, if he has the means.
-[X] Once we're back in the Demon Wagon and on the road, use our Crown to determine who or what gave Gorfel safe passage through the Winter Ways.
 
Annoyingly enough Qiao of the Yu An (Jade Harmony) specifically has abilities to interact with the spirit world without actually going there, which would be useful here, but it wasn't even one of the options for learning a Qiao, so I suppose that's no more useful than any other charm we wished we had. (Actually, Yu An has the power before the spirit world stuff be a magical lie detector that can also see if someone is possessed or otherwise "mentally influenced," so just a good utility tree for investigations in general that might be worth picking up eventually.)

Ah well, anybody think about any options that only use stuff we already have? Maybe burn a question on the jailhouse, since it's probably a topic we won't want to question again, get something about the Ways in the area? Or something like that?
Cyber devils are technically a form of immaterial spirit. Maybe they could interact with the ghosts for us?
 
Yeah, haring off into Winter may be a poor idea for Molly.
At least until she's a bit more empowered.

So, Nazi Necromancers...how nice, what on Earth are they up to that's worth stomping around under a Warden's nose?
 
So... Kemmler's disciple. A repentant Kemmler's disciple. Who has family. Family that probably has talents in it. We should introduce him to Charity. No, seriously, they could form a support group or something. She could talk to him about god, and he could demonstrate to her how one could be repentant without completely turning away from magic. And we could probably do something about that oath of his.
 
👍

That has nothing to do with us.
The redemption or otherwise of Lash is between Harry and Lash, and primarily a function of their interpersonal interaction.
It might not be as flashy as it was in canon, but nothing we have done affects that.


Citation very much needed.
My understanding was that it was to avoid getting tangled up or upsetting long-laid schemes, not any personal vulnerability.



I would dispute much of this.

For one thing, wizards get old while remaining quite vigorous; Luccio pre-bodyswap was middle aged looking despite being born in the early 1800s, and both McCoy and Listens to Wind are north of 300 from their involvement in the French and Indian War, and even greater age is demonstrated by with Rashid.

In that time they build and sit at the center of information networks that span continents and decades.And wizards love to gather information, and sponsor people and spirits to gather information on their behalf. There are entire chapters of the Venators out there looking for grant funding.

For the second, the Vampire War repeatedly puts the White Council's installations in and around major cities: Palermo, Milan, Cairo et cetera. Their HQ is under Edinburgh.
For all their antipathy towards hightech, their temporal power is anchored around cities and their human populations.

For another? Look at who taught Dresden.
He was adopted by DuMorne around 1986, and his grandfather took over the remainder of his education in the early 1990s. The Blackstaff would not fail in ensuring his grandson knew about current and rising dangers after what happened with his daughter.

The more obscure Hells are stuff he'd have to look for a book, or more likely Bob.
But the Wicked City? One of the five or six most prominent of the Thousand Hells? He might not know the specifics of the place, but he'd remember the Cliffnotes, and Bob would have updated him.

According to the Thousand Hells sourcebook, the Wicked City is not new; Enma-O and Mikaboshi allegedly fought a border war for centuries, with Mikaboshi steadily losing until the advent of Western technology which he embraced enthusiastically. He and his denizens are not new to the supernatural world.


More generally, its worth remembering that wizards are called the Wise for a reason.
At their core, beyond the blastiness and all the mojo, they're information brokers and hoarders. Even Dresden falls into a network of information gatherers almost by accident before the age of 50, and Harry is a fairly unambitious dude with primarily local concerns.

My two cents.



The White Council's ORIGINS are mostly in Europe and the so-called West.
Thats not the same thing as their projection power being just there. Other than Latin America where the Red Court hold sway, the White Council moves openly everywhere else.

We know in the Vampire War that they had command centers in Cairo and Milan, and hospitals in the Congo.
Petrovich was in Russia.
In fairness this is word of jim that they mostly were in those areas they've been just about everywhere that doesn't mean their not ALWAYS undermanned and the last century or so has seen a far bigger council than it used to be. They don't know everything and much of the world is not under their purview very often. entire countries may have a white council member at any given time at most doesn't mean they can't travel or that they have no power in certain areas.

Also their origins are most certainly not in the states thats a more recent thing their origins are in parts of europe.
 
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The issue with Harry taking to the ghosts is that he doesn't have any specialized tools with him right? My understanding of the situation in DF is that most magical foci are basically ritual equipment; they don't actually have any power in them except in what the wizard associates with them on a bone deep level.

We don't have access to any special materials right now, but could we use our tool charm to put together some impromptu foci to Dresden's specifications to make this easier and safer?

Stuff like an iron circle etched with the runes Harry uses to describe binding spells, talisman like specific types of hand bells, and other ritual tools.

We could even try adding some sympathetic elements, like using iron from the bars of the cells that held our ghost friends in life for the binding circle, if Harry thinks it's a good idea.
Yeah, haring off into Winter may be a poor idea for Molly.
At least until she's a bit more empowered.

So, Nazi Necromancers...how nice, what on Earth are they up to that's worth stomping around under a Warden's nose?
Considering the whole encounter with that sniper, it's possible they planned on killing him before Harry even knew they were in town but that knight of the cross bullshit messed up their timeline.
 
[X] Before you leave, use the Crown to learn the identities of all Kemmler's disciples. Clearly, there are some that White Council knows nothing about.
[X] Argue that you should follow the trail and see what you can find on the other side, the fey who had seen Gorfel with their own eyes are likely to be lesser in stature and thus easier to deal with than those who can command their fellows to speak up
 
I don't think we should be crossing into Winter-held Nevernever territory right now. That seems a bit premature and not necessarily helpful. The only way I see this leading us to useful information is if a nearby spirit or lesser Fey saw something with actual authority or influence among the Winter Court physically escorting Gorfel through the Way to a safe exit point. If a spirit saw something like that, it won't likely be able to tell us who it was, and if it was a lesser Fey, we would have to compel it to rat out a higher ranking Fey. And the only way it wouldn't tell others about its encounter with us is if we kill it.

Better to leave Matthews' place, perhaps with a warning that forces are moving in the background which might try to draw him in again, then ask our Crown once we're gone.

[X] Thank Matthews for his cooperation and warn him that the Society seems active of late, at least in this area. Given his relatively close proximity to Chicago, he might want to take additional precautions or consider relocating himself and his granddaughters, if he has the means.
-[X] Once we're back in the Demon Wagon and on the road, use our Crown to determine who or what gave Gorfel safe passage through the Winter Ways.
can't we just straight up ask where gorfel and his associates are now along with stuff like defenses we have a lot of crown options?
 
[X] Before you leave, use the Crown to learn the identities of all Kemmler's disciples. Clearly, there are some that White Council knows nothing about.
If we're going to do that, we should write in a specific question so that we can be specific with the link we use.

Kemmler's sore loser brigade could be a recurring problem, so I'd like to save questions that ping off the whole group if we can.

Maybe something like asking for the names of everyone who's ever worked with this guy as a practitioner?
 
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