[X] Plan Economic Takeover
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
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Cult Creator - The Pilgrims Journey
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Original Mature
Vote isn't open yet. You will have to re-vote once the QM posts the voting Threadmark.
Anyway, @HeroCooky could we speed up the completion of Catalog BHV Problems if we use a slot of a Create A Dossier On Action on it?
And for the thread in general; I have been thinking about stretching the Holdings: Fashion Street project over a few Turns instead of finishing it during this Turn. Otherwise, we would have two open Holdings Actions next Turn, and with most of those projects being rather expensive...
I would change one of the Learning projects in that case too.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Honestly, I am not sure...
Mmmh... I'll say yes, provisionaly.
This decision can be subject to change until I open voting, after which, if I don't rescind my answer here, it'll stay.
Hmm, that would be another Diplomacy Action. But then we could finish Catalog BHV Problems during the next Turn, and that makes many other projects much easier. It's always going to take at least another Turn though, so maybe during the next Turn?
So Turn 63 would be:
[Diplomacy] Hello, My Name Is Money, Big Money
[Diplomacy] Altering Black Holes
[Aria action] Shift Your Bureaucracy From (Archeology) To (Diplomacy)
[Martyris action] Too Much To Do - (Communal Outreach)
[Martyris action] Too Much To Do - (Hello, It's Me. The Pilgrim.)
And Turn 64:
[Diplomacy] Influencing Black Holes
[Diplomacy] Associate Lists: (Reveal to the Guard (Success: Yes. Cost: 17.38 Goodwill)
[Diplomacy] Budget Ledgers: (Reveal to the Guard (Success: Yes. Cost: 7.44 Goodwill)
[Aria action] ???
[Martyris action] Hey, Pssst, You Want Some Justice?
[Martyris action] Create A Dossier On (Black Hole Villages)
That would get us a list of possible Favors, one Aria Action to act on that, finish Catalog BHV Problems over two Turns, and hopefully curbs the DOR enough to prevent any big fights once the Purified march in.
Oh, and while I'm adding the Favor Diplomacy Action. I'm also going to change the Holding project to stretch over two, maybe three, Turns. Otherwise, we would start two Holding and one Tree projects during the next Turn, which would get very expensive.
I'm also switching Fashion Revival for something else in light of that and do it on the Turn we finish Fashion Street.
I'm also changing the Adventurer Action to look into the Merchant Guild (Manufactory Syndicates). I want to know how cutthroat they are and if we could influence the Merchants, in general, to work with us on improving the villages. They should be easier to sway than the Nobles at least.
Why not do the pesticides one? It says that it will improve the yields of everyones fields so it could help with the BHV.
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Economic Takeover
[X] Doctrine of Rebirth
[X] Doctrine of Rebirth
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Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
[X] Plan Economic Takeover
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
Hmm, both projects would take two Turns, but pesticides would need PD and DOD to finish in two Turns. Then again, we could use In The Name Of Profit from the next Turn onward... Yeah, changing that.
[X] Doctrine of Rebirth
[X] Plan Economic Takeover
-[X][Faith] Expand Your Poor Houses - (4/5 Turns Complete) - [Sandcrete -12.5 Materials],
-[X][Faith] Catalog BHV Problems - (0/3 Turns Complete) - (-78 Materials, -34 Goodwill)
-[X][Diplomacy] Hello, My Name Is Money, Big Money. - (0/1 Turns Complete) - (-900 Materials, -20 Goodwill, -2 Mutated Opinion (Once), Personal Cutter)
--[X] -
-[X][Diplomacy] Altering Black Holes - (Civilian Inf., Agriculture) - (0/1 Turns Complete)
--[X] -
-[X][Martial] Scout Out. - (Tech-Scouts: The Bunker - First Floor) - (0/1 Turns Complete)
--[X](+6FF)=+6
-[X][Learning] Pesticides Rediscovered - (Biology/Advanced Chemicals) - (0/10 Successes) - (-12 Materials)
--[X] [DoD], [PD], (Scientific Theory +15, Library +5)=+20
--[X] Non-Biological Affecting Acids +50 to Pioneer Chemicals/Biology=+50
-[X][Learning] True/False/False/True - (Advanced Programming/Electronics) - (5/7 Successes)
--[X] (Scientific Theory +15, Electronics Workshop +30, 2 [SC] +24, 6FF)=+75
--[X] 1x Malicious Scrap Code +20 to Advanced Programming=+20
-[X][Learning] Assemble The Theorists! - (Common Medicine) - (0/2 Successes)
--[X](Scientific Theory +15, 2[DOC] +12, 1[SUR] +12, +6FF)=+45
--[X] -
-[X][Archeology] Recover Airship - Personal Cutter - (The Unbroken, The Wall) - (0/1 Turns Complete) - (-6 Materials, 5 Small Suspendium Shards)
--[X] 3 [ENG] +42, +6FF=+48
-[X][Archeology] Prepare an Expedition - (RC-01) - (4 Turns Preperation= 8 Turns expedition) - (House Mirn support: N) - (2/4 Turns Complete)
-[X][Tree of Knowledge] Assemble A Logic Bank - (2/6 Constructed) - (Holdings) - (2/3 Turns Complete)
-[X][Holdings] Fashion Street - (0/4 Turns Complete) - (-21.89 Materials)
--[X] (Hire Contractors: 1*7 Materials= (-7 Materials)
-[X][Aria action] Shift Your Bureaucracy From (Archeology) To (Diplomacy) - (0/1 Turns Complete) - (-1 Materials))
-[X][Martyris action] Too Much To Do - (Communal Outreach - (Repeatable) - (0/2 Turns Complete) - (-20 Materials, -6 Goodwill))
--[X](Adjudicator +35, Sympathy: The Lost +20, +6FF)=+61
-[X][Martyris action] Too Much To Do - (Hello, It's Me. The Pilgrim. - (0/1 Turns Complete))
--[X](Adjudicator +35)=+35
-[X] Merchants - (All Are Free Actions)
--[X] Backroom Deals - (Small Quarantine Area)
--[X] Sell Businesses Norqod Location Privileges
-[X] The Adventurer Guild - (1 Action)
--[X] Investigate - (Merchant Guild (Manufactory Syndicates)) - (-3 Materials)
-[X] The Union Of Herbalists - (1 Action)
--[X] Study Sessions - (0/8 Turns Complete) - (-1 Faithful, -2.50 Material)
-[X] Stupendously Scholastic Scholars of Science - (1 Action)
--[X] Suffer Their Arrogance - (3/4 Turns Complete) - (-6 Material)
-[X] Forge Clan Vanar-Feer - (Choose 1 Action)
--[X] Engineers Galore - (Engineer) - (2/6 Turns Complete) - (-15 Materials)
-[X] The Followers Of Light - (1 Action)
--[X] We Work As One - (Catalog BHV Problems)
-[X] Conclave Of Fraya - (1 Action)
--[X] Eternal Arts - (Norqod) - (12/45 Turns Complete) - (-5 Materials)
-[X] Nine Tribes Council - (1 Action)
--[X] Sell Artifact/s
"4D Rectangle" - 0.88
Farsight Lense - 0.73
3x Rare Spices - 0.72
Tattered Painting - 0.05
Gutted Brain Scanner Fragments - 0.96
Crumbling Neural Map - 0.73
Rudimentary Chemical Diagramm - 0.43
Child Learning Toy - 0.07,
Notes On A Patients Recovery - 0.65
Burnt Scientific Papers - 0.78
Medical Data - 0.65
Engraved Memorial - 0.31
Destroyed Art - 0.43
Old Pen - 0.02
Literature - 0.72
Rare Alloyed Pipes - 0.58
Machinery Parts - 0.54
Jewel Nuggets - 0.73
Rare Minerals - 0.94
Preserved Feather - 0.03
Monetary Budgets - 0.10
Interesting Rock - 0.01
Ancient Food - 0.72
Destroyed Pictures - 0.34
Fossilized Woodcarving - 0.04
Useless Mechanical Parts - 0.70
Clear Crystal - 0.15
Gemstones - 0.66
Farsight Lense - 0.73
3x Rare Spices - 0.72
Tattered Painting - 0.05
Gutted Brain Scanner Fragments - 0.96
Crumbling Neural Map - 0.73
Rudimentary Chemical Diagramm - 0.43
Child Learning Toy - 0.07,
Notes On A Patients Recovery - 0.65
Burnt Scientific Papers - 0.78
Medical Data - 0.65
Engraved Memorial - 0.31
Destroyed Art - 0.43
Old Pen - 0.02
Literature - 0.72
Rare Alloyed Pipes - 0.58
Machinery Parts - 0.54
Jewel Nuggets - 0.73
Rare Minerals - 0.94
Preserved Feather - 0.03
Monetary Budgets - 0.10
Interesting Rock - 0.01
Ancient Food - 0.72
Destroyed Pictures - 0.34
Fossilized Woodcarving - 0.04
Useless Mechanical Parts - 0.70
Clear Crystal - 0.15
Gemstones - 0.66
Costs: 12.5 Materials+ 78 Materials+ 900 Materials+ 12 Materials+ 6 Materials+ 21.89 Materials+ 7 Materials+ 1 Materials+ 20 Materials+ 3 Materials+ 2.50 Material+ 6 Material+ 15 Materials+ 5 Materials = 1.089.89 Materials
Budget: 1.241.77 Materials+ ??? Norqod Location Privileges and Artefacts= ~1.241.77 Materials
Remaining budget: 1.241.77 Materials - 1.089.89 Materials= 151.88 Materials
Goodwill cost: 34 Goodwill+ 20 Goodwill+ 6 Goodwill= 60 Goodwill
Current Goodwill: 257.61 Goodwill
Remaining Goodwill: 257.61 Goodwill - 60 Goodwill= 197.61 Goodwill
- Location
- Goose Land
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
@HeroCooky I'm getting confused regarding Piety. Is it going to go up or down? Right now it says we gain +1 to our piety loss roll per 100. Is that roll going to be +1 per 50?
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
As said withing the Doctrine, you will gain a +1 to Piety Decay Rolls per 50 Followers.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
You will have a +11 to your Piety Rolls.
That said, I noticed that you were missing some Piety gain rewards for the BHVs.
I've added them now.
Wait, the number is going to be recalculated? I thought it would stay at 19, but it would just increase more rapidly.You will have a +11 to your Piety Rolls.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
No, it changes to 50 Followers = 1 Piety Decay.
It will similarly change to 25 Followers = 1 Piety Decay once you attain your third (and final) Tenet at 2500 Followers.
Welcome to a crisis of faith. Emerge victorious and tempered ever stronger, or shatter upon the annals of history.
- Pronouns
- Viewer
[X] Plan Economic Takeover
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
- Location
- The Space Between
[X] Doctrine of the Second Life
I think the most important part about getting in on the shares for the black holes is that we can push for the expansion of pilgrim operations in each of these deathtraps. Frankly, making them profitable on our dime just makes perverse incentives.
This is actually a really compelling disaster, because it has a couple moving parts:
1- It's a Noble Project that isn't on the surface outside of our goals. Getting in their way (and getting on their bad side) is optional
2- There's a risk of it spreading. As it is, we can just barely make it 80/80 if we throw everything we currently have at it. If we do that though, the perverse incentives of the action will likely cause other Noble Houses to just do the same. "Start the project and the Pilgrims feel obligated to take care of it".
3- It's a segregated housing issue. Unlike Norqad, which doesn't discriminate, these Black Holes seem to scoop up only Mutated and separate them from the population. This is terrible. We shouldn't support these discriminatory ghettos any more than is needed to get our Soup, Poor and Hospice Houses set up in them.
Unfortunately, we're going to need to stand against House Ulatarn's behavior at some point. We cannot allow this segregation practice to spread, and we need to contain the nasty extremist gangs of the region within that region.
There's two major routes I can see to those ends.
1- We bring in Noble Power to take a swipe at Ulatarn. Infiltrate House Ulatarn and pull out secrets, document the flaws of the "Black Holes", curry some favor amongst their enemies, and strike a coordinated Political Blow against them for the ghastly way this has been done. This would land best at the outset of the extremely bloody gang war they've fostered with their corruption.
Pros- isn't directly our fault. The practice won't spread. Ulatarn being seen as a destabilizing influence suddenly puts them under a lot of pressure to shape the hell up, because it's their negligence that is causing the bloodshed rather than being unrelated to them.
Cons- Rather than directly improving lives, it just prevents the spread of this terribleness. Nobody is really saved, and we have to play politics with our efforts rather than directly improving lives.
2- We start laying out as many plans to extract Ulatarn people out to Mirn/Norqod as possible, alongside a massive expansion to Norqod, so that when the gang war kicks off we can save as many people as possible. This includes closer ties to House Mirn, and exchanging the favors necessary for the task.
Pros- We have a ton of infrastructure in Mirn/Norqod to assist the populations of Ulatarn that are going to be in the most danger from the gang war. It'll be a mighty undertaking, but many lives can be helped/saved immediately and directly this way. Huge population influx.
Cons- Huge population influx also comes with instability and risk. House Mirn may not be happy about such a huge population surge in the slums and in their neighbor, and I'm sure Ulatarn is going to complain for one reason or another.
Ultimately, we need to massively expand recruitment and diplomacy options if we want to have the power required to do works on the scale of the established Noble Houses. We should work to increase the ties between House Mirn and House Dall, as well as the ties between The Pilgrims and House Mirn. We cannot alone expand Narqod enough to absorb the 27,000 and more Mutated that wish to leave the other regions and slums. However, if we can convince exactly House Mirn of the economic benefits involved we'll have a strong ally to help both House Dall and The Pilgrims.
In any case, I do not want to see us invest overmuch in making sure these "Black Holes" succeed. I want enough of a foot in the door to be able to catalog their sins, establish basic Pilgrim structures, and certain routes out of these hellholes. Getting them up to be merely poor is something we might have to do, but honestly getting any of these segregated "towns" to any kind of successful is just gonna send the wrong message. Instead we need to set up to save those left in the crossfire of Ulatarn incompetence, and to successfully call them out on it when their region destabilizes.
I think the most important part about getting in on the shares for the black holes is that we can push for the expansion of pilgrim operations in each of these deathtraps. Frankly, making them profitable on our dime just makes perverse incentives.
This is actually a really compelling disaster, because it has a couple moving parts:
1- It's a Noble Project that isn't on the surface outside of our goals. Getting in their way (and getting on their bad side) is optional
2- There's a risk of it spreading. As it is, we can just barely make it 80/80 if we throw everything we currently have at it. If we do that though, the perverse incentives of the action will likely cause other Noble Houses to just do the same. "Start the project and the Pilgrims feel obligated to take care of it".
3- It's a segregated housing issue. Unlike Norqad, which doesn't discriminate, these Black Holes seem to scoop up only Mutated and separate them from the population. This is terrible. We shouldn't support these discriminatory ghettos any more than is needed to get our Soup, Poor and Hospice Houses set up in them.
Unfortunately, we're going to need to stand against House Ulatarn's behavior at some point. We cannot allow this segregation practice to spread, and we need to contain the nasty extremist gangs of the region within that region.
There's two major routes I can see to those ends.
1- We bring in Noble Power to take a swipe at Ulatarn. Infiltrate House Ulatarn and pull out secrets, document the flaws of the "Black Holes", curry some favor amongst their enemies, and strike a coordinated Political Blow against them for the ghastly way this has been done. This would land best at the outset of the extremely bloody gang war they've fostered with their corruption.
Pros- isn't directly our fault. The practice won't spread. Ulatarn being seen as a destabilizing influence suddenly puts them under a lot of pressure to shape the hell up, because it's their negligence that is causing the bloodshed rather than being unrelated to them.
Cons- Rather than directly improving lives, it just prevents the spread of this terribleness. Nobody is really saved, and we have to play politics with our efforts rather than directly improving lives.
2- We start laying out as many plans to extract Ulatarn people out to Mirn/Norqod as possible, alongside a massive expansion to Norqod, so that when the gang war kicks off we can save as many people as possible. This includes closer ties to House Mirn, and exchanging the favors necessary for the task.
Pros- We have a ton of infrastructure in Mirn/Norqod to assist the populations of Ulatarn that are going to be in the most danger from the gang war. It'll be a mighty undertaking, but many lives can be helped/saved immediately and directly this way. Huge population influx.
Cons- Huge population influx also comes with instability and risk. House Mirn may not be happy about such a huge population surge in the slums and in their neighbor, and I'm sure Ulatarn is going to complain for one reason or another.
Ultimately, we need to massively expand recruitment and diplomacy options if we want to have the power required to do works on the scale of the established Noble Houses. We should work to increase the ties between House Mirn and House Dall, as well as the ties between The Pilgrims and House Mirn. We cannot alone expand Narqod enough to absorb the 27,000 and more Mutated that wish to leave the other regions and slums. However, if we can convince exactly House Mirn of the economic benefits involved we'll have a strong ally to help both House Dall and The Pilgrims.
In any case, I do not want to see us invest overmuch in making sure these "Black Holes" succeed. I want enough of a foot in the door to be able to catalog their sins, establish basic Pilgrim structures, and certain routes out of these hellholes. Getting them up to be merely poor is something we might have to do, but honestly getting any of these segregated "towns" to any kind of successful is just gonna send the wrong message. Instead we need to set up to save those left in the crossfire of Ulatarn incompetence, and to successfully call them out on it when their region destabilizes.
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It has already spread, there's BHV in all of Tessen, not just house Ulatarn. I also feel like you're thinking that BHVs are terrible because of active malice rather than simple neglect and ignorance. This is not some convoluted attempt at a Purge, this is a goverment official going "I have a great idea that will help people"
Also, once we have a village that's successfull we can replicate it more easily. If other houses don't want to follow the blueprints we give them then we can start raising a stink about it.
We are going to face a crisis of Faith because of our high recruitment. So I would hold off on that.
Wouldn't it be better to try to prevent the gang war in the first place? Also, why the sudden mass relocation? This isn't the middle ages, people won't just move en mass.
Uhh, what do you mean"allow this segregation practice to spread"? It has been a thing for a long time already. We even got a mention that Baron Esker has spent a long time dealing with that.
We got him as a contact during Turn 28. 34 Turns, with each being 3 months, would mean he has spent over 8 years doing this.
It's simply one of those things that aren't obvious to us as readers, and that people IC are used to. Recently, a post of mine from earlier in the Thread got a Like, which reminded me of how little we knew about the Eversun/Evertorch compared to now.
It also made me wonder if we could electrify Norqod as a whole (helping with industry and starting the nightlife) but that's unrelated to how we as readers see things differently than people IC.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Doctrine of the Burning Eye
[X] Plan Economic Takeover
[X] Plan Economic Takeover
- Location
- The Space Between
I mean specifically the kind where they ship the mutants away into "Black Holes", compare them to our holdings, and get investment direct from us because they're that disastrous.
I mean. Have we been given these sorts of intervention options for the slums and ghettos before? No. Are many Mutated freaking out because these things are worse than the segregated slums they already live in? Yes. This is a rollout of more intensive and destructive segregation than Ulatarn had before, and this specific brand of worse seems to be concentrated in Ulatarn land rather than the whole Tessen region.
I don't recognize the name "Baron Esker". Who?
Uh. Anyway I think the confusion is about whether segregation is already occurring (it is) I'm saying this specific kind of segregation is nastier than the one that already exists
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