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Violent revolution isn't some magic button pressed from a secret communist (or fascist, or liberal democratic or whatever) bunker.

It happens when a system breaks down and at that point, the choices narrow down. If a system is working then there's no need. Even systems that kinda suck can get by a long time on inertia. But often, uh, systems aren't working?

And so it's generally not a choice of, "Everyone could hug it out, get along, and agree to disagree because it doesn't matter" and more "Everyone's starving and dying, someone has to do something, the system refuses or is unable to fix even one of their problems, let alone all of them."
 
Violent revolution isn't some magic button pressed from a secret communist (or fascist, or liberal democratic or whatever) bunker.

It happens when a system breaks down and at that point, the choices narrow down. If a system is working then there's no need. Even systems that kinda suck can get by a long time on inertia. But often, uh, systems aren't working?

And so it's generally not a choice of, "Everyone could hug it out, get along, and agree to disagree because it doesn't matter" and more "Everyone's starving and dying, someone has to do something, the system refuses or is unable to fix even one of their problems, let alone all of them."
C: Yes, violent revolution is basically the Godzilla Threshold of politics.
 
Anywho
Because playing China for our profit is likely to tick them off something fierce, and with the political turmoil after Mao's death the last thing we want is to look like a convient uppity vassal outside target that someone can use to help consolidate power.
Now, I'm not saying we won't be defeated, but is it possible with our mecha to give the Chinese a bloody nose that they would never forget if they were to try and invade us?

Even though we would lose, I just wonder if we could inflict horrific casualties on their military, through conventional and guerrilla warfare.
 
I'm not sure if hoodwinking the US is even necessary actually, beyond just hiding the Iron Tigers saying the truth that we didn't cause the Tsunami. The first is just a matter of bundling them away and not talking about them. The second we can just point out the damage the tsunami has done to our farms, and how as a good communist nation that cares for our people dealing such damage to our shaky food supply would not be worth grabbing an obselete carrier.

Our whole story is that we are repeatedly screaming: "Everything is fine, don't look too close, there is no western invasion, only a bit of illegal waste dumping" and hoping that everybody else fears MAD enough to play along. Not much I see that needs hoodwinking here.
In regards to the rumors? Take the most ridiculous and debunk them. "No we have no doomsday weapons and if we did we wouldn't be wasting it on that hub of junk you call military hardware". Otherwise be upfront on what were getting out of all this. Outright admit were shaking them down for funds and possibly more for our own gain. Give them a reason for our actions before their paranoia does it for them.

So, this is very fair. Just being up front might be enough.

YES!! More Doctor's you can never go wrong with that.

So, this perhaps brings me to another point. Do we want to use this moment to enact some exchanges that may be peripherally connected to this crisis?

Like, I absolutely think that we could request for Cuban doctors (and their safe passage) for the American sailors. We could swing it as a way for America to demonstrate that they are committed to de-escalation in general (and it could be sold as a way for Cuba to demonstrate its neutrality, improving its image and influence on the international stage). We might even be able to ask for Cuba to set up some long term medical education centers, depending on how things go in the future.

Similarly, we might be able to approach other countries like India during this crisis. In exchange for naming the unaligned movement, and specifically India, as neutral observers, we could ask them for educators who know the Montessori education method, who could help us reorganize our education system. In exchange for improving their diplomatic prestige and influence, they could help us with our education.

Of course, there is also @CyberEnby's original suggestion of media production materials from hollywood. Although I am not sure if we want continued interaction with western media companies, because I imagine that very quickly we will only be interacting the spies.

Edit:
Now, I'm not saying we won't be defeated, but is it possible with our mecha to give the Chinese a bloody nose that they would never forget if they were to try and invade us?

Even though we would lose, I just wonder if we could inflict horrific casualties on their military, through conventional and guerrilla warfare.
The Chinese Army in the 1970s isn't that much to write home about, honestly. Their navy isn't that great either, though both are still massively larger than us.

Quantity is a quality all its own. And China just has too many people to throw at us. Can we at least wait until we have subs or something else before we piss off the most populous nation in the world.

edit 2: I demand we at least have 3 super tech weapons (like the mechs) before we go down in defeat. We need to have a proper defeat, with a super villain lair, insane tech, and a plan to rule the world....

And Bond.. Because of course he would be there
 
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C: Yes, violent revolution is basically the Godzilla Threshold of politics.
And crossing it is something I'd like to avoid at all cost.
But often, uh, systems aren't working?
I'm assuming your talking about the issues based on the disruption to the socio-economic order due to long term isolation and spending time in the Echo chamber of the internet further polarizing a generation of young people dealing with the mistakes of a previous generations excessive wealth causing a generational divide of people who want a fast solution to regain a fraction of that wealth to enjoy for personal projects.

In spite of appearing as a mad "For The Center" rhetoric I have been keeping up to date on the state of affairs and politics.

Good god, at least we have some hope of some of the new blood in politics is something to go off of.

Let's hope their character and life experience can balance out their inexperience.
And Bond.. Because of course he would be there
Oh god!! When I Find the time I will write it.
 
And then I realized most of all that I'm a Centrist and don't believe in anything you all believe in because...it didn't click. And then I realized the worse truth of all, I was an intelligent voter and wanted to be smart with my one vote.

Ah, I too am a centrist! I think both communist AND anarchists make good points! :V

More seriously, one vote isn't going to change anything, use voting as harm reduction but don't count on it to actually tackle the underlying causes of the issues we're seeing, better invest your energy into something more productive like direct action if possible.

As to western media, I don't really want to interact with them long term, but I'd like to angle for Guangchou to become the high tech manufacturing and media arm of the communist movement, and it would be good to get equipment and technical expertise (makeup, practical effects, cinematography, etc.) from the big dogs of entertainment.
 
You know, another thong that would be good to grab is also opening up formal, direct diplomatic relations. If we have an Embassy, that gives us clout and allows the US to respond/coordinate better with the US.

And if they suddenly drop a second carrier on us, have a B52 break in half over our nation, or we pick up an astronaut, then we can resolve things quicker.
 
You know, another thong that would be good to grab is also opening up formal, direct diplomatic relations. If we have an Embassy, that gives us clout and allows the US to respond/coordinate better with the US.

And if they suddenly drop a second carrier on us, have a B52 break in half over our nation, or we pick up an astronaut, then we can resolve things quicker.

Do we want to give them a premanent presence for their spies to operate out of through? I think an embassy will have to wait until after the Iron Tiger reveal.
 
You know, another thong that would be good to grab is also opening up formal, direct diplomatic relations. If we have an Embassy, that gives us clout and allows the US to respond/coordinate better with the US.

And if they suddenly drop a second carrier on us, have a B52 break in half over our nation, or we pick up an astronaut, then we can resolve things quicker.
Do we want to give them a premanent presence for their spies to operate out of through? I think an embassy will have to wait until after the Iron Tiger reveal.

Also, will an embassy really be necessary. Like, all the crises you just described are almost always going to require UN intervention probably. Can't we just rely on our UN representative for big deals like this?

I don't think that this whole situation would be going better if the US had a local embassy, because they would still be extremely suspicious we are still trying to pull something.

And yeah, also the spy problem, which will also inevitably come with an embassy
 
C: We could maybe leverage this crisis to get an Embassy in America?

Aren't those agreements usually reciprocal?

Also, what's the state of polyamory in Guangchou? I just had this thought of us hosting one of those Official State Visits - you know, the ones where the leaders bring their families to pose for the cameras as Big Wholesome Politicians - and the US president and his family being totally flustered because, here we are with five kids and a wife and a husband and they just have no social context AT ALL for what polite behaviour is in this setting?!?!
 
So your saying there is a chance?

Excellent.
Do recall from the opening of the quest that losing all our Chinese Opinion is a game over. Their smallest province's police group could roll over us with 7% casualties. We through off the Japanese invasion, but that was before we were bombed into the stone age and our population had to deal with decades of starvation and malnutrition weakening them.

Alright, here's my idea for a non-escalatory plan building off the current political fiction we built up.

[X] Plan: Public Dressing Down
-[X] We have the momentum, so while everyone else is still without a coherent plan steamroll forward and get people to work with us by being the only people with a plan. Start working on how to return the US navy personnel and what to do about the carrier, all couched within the political fiction we built about it being just an incident of the US littering on Guangchou territory. It is vitally important to everyone that the fiction stays intact, or else the nukes get one step closer to being launched and nobody wants that. Agree to common sense concessions like a party of observers from neutral nations to ensure that US personnel are being treated well and that the USA don't try to sneak spies into or steal information from Guangchou during the operation, but don't let any nation bully us into anything. We are still under Chinese protection after all. Be reasonable, we know this is quite sudden and the fine for littering this much of material is quite high. So we can work with the US to make a payment plan of yearly installments over 5 years, and allow for partial repayment in non-monetary materials, with up the a third of the fine being able to be paid in industrial equipment of equal value, and another third being able to be paid in quality foodstuffs. Defective equipment, parasite ridden food, and other things of that nature will not be counted towards the total of what they owe, and they may be fined further for any damage caused by defective equipment or outbreaks.

--[X] State that in the interest of avoiding Nuclear Armageddon, Gunagchou is willing to allow the Americans to retrieve or destroy any sensitive information or technology currently aboard the Iwo Jima, as well as evacuate it's sailors, so long as the personnel dispatched to do so are unarmed and do not act to cause further harm to Guangchou.

--[X] Gunagchou is willing to let the Americans decide if they want to re-float the carrier or just decommission it in place, however they will have to do so with civilian workers and they will need to reimburse Gunagchou for the temporary loss of fertile soil as well as for any soil remediation that needs to be done afterwards (because their carrier is leaking engine oil and avgas into land needed to feed the country's population) in addition to the initial hazardous littering fine.

-[X] If the USA or any other NATO nation starts getting overly aggressive or pushy about us doing anything to the crew of the carrier or something, tell them Guangchou would not do such a thing as Guangchou does not wish to start World War 3 and be leveled to the ground for the second time in 50 years. (Look the US contingent dead in the eyes) "After all, in a completely hypothetical situation where a hypothetical USN carrier hypothetically ended up beached in Guangchou, with the rest of the hypothetical carrier's hypothetical fleet playing a hypothetical game of chicken with a hypothetical Chinese fleet on who will break first and fire a hypothetical shot, it sure would be hard for Guangchou to keep together a hypothetical political fiction it put up in order to stop a hypothetical nuclear exchange as part of a hypothetical world war if an incident happened. Like a pair of hypothetical US pilots hypothetically breaching Guangchou airspace in a hypothetical spy plane by taking in on a hypothetical flight path that took the hypothetical plane directly down 72nd street in Guangchou's capitol, only 50m meters off the ground. Such a thing happening would surely bring the world much closer to mutually assured nuclear annihilation. So we sure are glad such an incident Never. Happened. Right?"

-[X] If anyone brings up secret superweapons that we used to intentionally beach the carrier, deny that we have any secret superweapons, and say that even if we did have them we would not use them against the USA out of a desire to not be consumed in a nuclear fireball. Even disregarding death by ICBM, we have no reason to try to steal the Iwo Jima like that as whatever we could get from a 40 year old obsolete carrier is not worth the damage the tsunami did to our agriculture and infrastructure.

-[X] Once the Department of Propaganda has made sure that none of our soldiers are going to shoot at the US Navy personnel and make this whole indecent even worse, get them working with whatever we have for an international relations department to translate our story into other languages and get it going internationally before the capitalist media gets the first word in.

-[X] Keep the Iron Tigers bundled up far away from international attention to keep them hidden, and just rely on our regular military in the area for now until this is over and all the observers go away.
 
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I guess, but it is in a list of equally implausible sci-fi nonsense. I mean, I guess fair enough... and I think your plan will work, but it is kinda something of a squib?

Or, I dunno. It feels like we enter the world stage, mumble a bunch of conventional diplomatic rhetoric, and awkwardly shuffle off to the side.

The fact that we are including EMP's on our list actually makes the list of super weapons slightly more realistic. Well that and the ground to air laser systems. Both are absolutely possible and both should be known to be such to the scientific community and the CIA.
 
As long as we push for reparation to be given in terms of food, industrial equipment and (possibly) entertainment expertise, I'm happy. Money... isn't terribly useful to us tbh. At least not as useful as material goods.
 
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